Can you make your own solar cells???

[crafty2002]

I am just woundering. Someone started somewhere so it should be a way to do it with what is availible today.
Does anyone know of any sites or books on it.
I just went to the ad for "Wholesale Solar" at the top of the page here and my math says it would take about 40-50 years to make enough juice to pay for a solar panel.

[chrisser]

There are these:

http://worldwatts.com/homemade_solar_cell/homemade_solar_cell.html

but I'm not sure that's going to help you.

My take on solar is that getting heat from the sun is far easier and cheaper than getting electricity. I would concentrate on that resource first - either for hot water or even home heat augmentation.

It seems like there may be a revolution shortly in solar cells for electricity. Might be worth waiting for that and finding another way to get electricity in the meantime.

Just my thoughts...

I've read you can also utilize damaged solar cells that you can get cheaply. They aren't as efficient as full working ones, but if you have the space to put them up, you can work around that. Ditto with used.


Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I will chime in.

[12vman]

Home Brew "Cells" usually don't produce enough current to charge a battery bank. Commercially produced cells are the best option..

Here (http://www.siliconsolar.com/commercial-solar-cells-p-16168.html) are some that you could build a panel with.. ;)

I would suggst the 04-1194. Mono-Crystalline cells are far the best and could last 30+ years if the frame or holder were made very weatherproof. 32 of these connected in series would make a panel around 60 watts for around $272 + Uncle Sam, S&H..

[Steve_L]

I would rather make a solar collector and use the light to boil water and then turn a steam engine.

I've been toying with that Idea. I think it might work in Arizona, but I live in Washington State.

Is the sun still yellow? ???

[Techstuf]

Think about the necessity of electricity in a crisis situation.....sure it's convenient to have a refrigerator....but really, we use it for lighting mainly. The alternative to electricity is not all that bad.....it's been done to death. Literally, for eons! So, rather than ask how we can complicate our lives, perhaps we should focus on how simple we can make them during a time when "simplify" is the order of the day. Candles for light, freezed dried/canned foods, clean water. Hand cranked radios, maybe a 150w solar panel with charge controller and small battery bank for TV and other small appliances if one wants to be 'extravagant'.

I say, learn from the collective experience of the ages and "simplify" focus on what is and master the now. Ultra efficiency.....


TS

[DavidOH]

Sure you could. You could also make you own battery.
Not practical...but you could.

http://www.thesolarplan.com/articles/your-own-solar-panel-collector.html

[richgatesolar]

You can make your own but they will deal with cadmium and selenium (both heavy metals very BAD :'() your best bet is to buy some cells, tab them together in series and make your own 60 watt panel. look for cells that deliver at least 1+ amps and usually they are .50 volts total price about $250.00 US. ,,Peace richgatesolar

[actrisor11]

Sure you can make your own solar cells.They can be made from paint pigment,alcohol,vinegar,berry juice,and iodine placed on a conductive glass.Wow what a mouth full,put in other terms the answer is yes it's simple process,cheap compared to silicon cells.Now the draw back they don't produce as much power as the best silicon cells, they use a liquid electrolyte and they are harder to connect together.But that is not to say it can't be done I have done it myself.The cells I constructed produce a little less than 1/2 volt @ ma currents.But it can be done and with enough of these cells you can do what ever you want as far as charging batteries.They are called dye based solar cells.
Now comes the next thing in solar cells. Believe it or not you can use LEDs as solar cells.Connecting enough of them in series and parallel you can make usable power.
Act

[Kelly]

and my math says it would take about 40-50 years to make enough juice to pay for a solar panel.
that is at the current prices for power correct?
i would venture to guess that power isnt going to get cheaper, so in 5 years when power prices have doubles, you will be ALOT closer to getting you moneys worth from a solar setup.

[PaulNKS]

It isn't so much about "when" the system will pay for itself as it is about how much per month will a system average out to.

My system, based on the expected life of the components and previous replacement costs (of batteries), costs me an average of just under $13.00 per month.... much less than corporate electricity.

[Curbie]

BUILDING SOLAR PANELS:
“Build Your Own Solar Panel”
by Phillip J. Hurley
http://www.goodideacreative.com/solarpanel.html
NOT that Earth4Energy BS of buying road killed temporary street sign PV panels and rebuilding them cheap, IMO a total scam. It seems to me that with Phillip J. Hurley’s plan you’ll trade a ~40% savings for a lot of picky, time-consuming work.

I’m not a big PV fan price/performance wise, but it seems to me that with the book you’d have a decent shot at repairing a commercially purchased panel, especially if you kept an eye on surplus PV cell sites for functional replacements to the cells in your commercially purchased panel. I always hear from PV advocates how their SUPPOSED to last 20-30 years, my question to them is why do PV panels generally only carry a 2 year warranty?

He also has an interesting book on building your own batteries:
“The Battery Builder's Guide”
by Phillip Hurley
http://www.goodideacreative.com/battery_builder.html

Also:
“Build Your Own Fuel Cells”
by Phillip Hurley

“Build A Solar Hydrogen Fuel Cell System”
by Phillip Hurley

“Practical Hydrogen Systems: an Experimenter's Guide”
by Phillip Hurley

All are pretty serious works, well laid and thought out and backed-up with the necessary math.


SOLAR POWERED STEAM ENGINES:
Here is a dump of some of the research I did on solar steam engines both piston and turbine.

The Phoenix Turbine Builders Club
http://www.phoenixnavigation.com/ptbc/articles/ptbc36.htm took a pretty a serious wack at a solar steam engine, posting monthly progress reports until the progress reports abruptly stopped (dashed on the jagged rocks of reality?), now they sell a 1 Hp Tesla turbine for $7000.00 (WTF)!

Tesla Tubine (Finished Turbine 1Hp $7000,00)
http://www.phoenixnavigation.com/ptbc/turbogen.htm

Link to an engineering student's who re-designed the Reliable Steam Engines turbine for solar steam Electricity generation (small scale)
http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses_1/available/etd-01052007-181917/unrestr...

Mike Brown (Finished Piston Engines 1Hp $1200.00, 3Hp $2400.00, 20Hp
$6500.00)
http://home.earthlink.net/~dlaw70/12stmng.htm

Reliable Steam Engines (Piston Plans $50.00, Turbine Plans $50.00,
Boiler Plans $30.00, piston 4-200 Hp, turbine 5Hp)
http://members.pioneer.net/~carlich/RSE/RSEengines.html

Google Sream Books:
Steam_Boiler_Engineering.pdf
Steam_Boilers.pdf
Steam_engine_Principles_and_Practice.pdf
Steam_Power_Plant_Auxiliaries_and_Access.pdf
Steam_Power_Plant_Engineering.pdf

I thought the solar math was pretty squirrelly until I got into the math to create steam tables.

I have been toying with this idea for 30 years and still can't get the math to work on a home-scale, but just because I can't get the idea to work, doesn't mean that somebody else won't. I'm not quite sure I've given up on the idea altogether, solar and steam math is pretty squirrelly but it is a lot cheaper than trying to build all the ideas that I've tested in computer models.

Curbie

[PaulNKS]

I always hear from PV advocates how their SUPPOSED to last 20-30 years, my question to them is why do PV panels generally only carry a 2 year warranty?

My panels have a 20 year warranty.

Personally speaking... I've yet to see a homemade panel that is as efficient as a commercially made panel.

Paul

[Curbie]

My panels have a 20 year warranty.

Personally speaking... I've yet to see a homemade panel that is as efficient as a commercially made panel.

Paul

My question was: why do PV panels generally only carry a 2 year warranty?

I've seen home-made panels as efficient as a commercially made panels, but the real problem with home-made panels in my view is lack of durability when exposed to weather compared to commercially made panels.

The combination of moisture and thermal cycles is hard on anything left out in the weather, especially alternative energy devices that produces electricity, wind-turbines, hydro, or PV panels.

I guess I'm fan of the idea of being able to fix things I need.

Curbie

[DavidOH]

My question was: why do PV panels generally only carry a 2 year warranty?
Curbie

http://www.realgoods.com/category/solar+power/solar+panels/sharp+solar+panels.do

Sharp:
UL-listed. 25-year mfg. warranty. Assembled in USA
Kyocera
UL-listed. 20-year limited power output warranty. Japan.
Sanyo:
with a 20-year mfg. warranty. USA/Mexico
Evergreen:
UL-listed. 25-year limited power warranty; two-year workmanship warranty. USA.
Uni-Solar:
warrantied within 20% of their rated output for 20 years! UL- and CUL-listed. USA.
Sunsei:
10-year power warranty, two-year parts warranty. UK/China
AEE Solar:
10-year power output warranty. China.

Here are SEVEN brands.
The small cheap ones from China have 10 year, the larger ones are all 20 year or more.
The only thing I see is the workmanship covered for 2.
Workmanship, (how it s put together) you should be able to tell within minutes of setting it up.

[Curbie]

You don’t have to go far to check warrantees, check with the guys who advertise here.

Sharp:
UL-listed. 25-year mfg. warranty. Assembled in USA Kyocera
UL-listed. 20-year limited power output warranty. Japan.
***1 year warranty, limited 10 & 25 year fine print.***
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/module%20pdf%20folder/sharp224warranty.pdf

Sanyo:
with a 20-year mfg. warranty. USA/Mexico
***limited 5 & 20 year fine print.***
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/module%20pdf%20folder/HIT-Power-Limited-Warrranty.pdf

Evergreen:
UL-listed. 25-year limited power warranty; two-year workmanship warranty. USA.
***Correct 2 Warranty & limited 25 year fine print.***
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/module-folder/Evergreen/Evergreen190.html

This bunch isn't sold by the link above.
Uni-Solar:
warrantied within 20% of their rated output for 20 years! UL- and CUL-listed. USA.

Sunsei:
10-year power warranty, two-year parts warranty. UK/China

AEE Solar:
10-year power output warranty. China.

If a “Limited Warranty” was the same as a “Warranty” the word “Limited” wouldn’t be used legally. Of the seven you posted, correct me if I’m wrong, it appears there’s only one 1 year Warranty and one 2 year Warranty and the rest seems like sales and legal gibberish which I interrupt as:
Send the broken panel back and sit in the dark until they can figure out whether or not your panel can be legally excluded by the fine print of their “Limited Warranty”.

I haven’t been a big fan PV panels for price/performance reasons, but I believe people should have proper information to make important decisions and in my opinion, advocates of PV panels would future their cause more with useful posts like:
PV Panels $2.00 per watt
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=357
and posts with the “supply and demand” reasons (manufactures stock) for the price drops.

Someday I may be a PV panel advocate because for hard price/performance reasons and not sales and legal gibberish reasons, but will always advocate proper information.

Curbie

[PaulNKS]

Personally speaking...

The only one I looked at was the first one. Sharp. The limited warranty will warranty the power output if used as intended for 20 years. Yes, it's prorated but, if you recover 80% in years 18, 19. or 20, then I think that's great.

Also, You are better off pricing the panels by price per amp, not watts. The reason is the efficiency. You can have two 80 watt panels, one from each of two different manufacturers. But, the amp output may vary.

Curbie, what is your experience with solar? What is your experience off grid?

I haven’t been a big fan PV panels for price/performance reasonsI was able to install solar at 1/3 of the cost of installing grid power. I suspect the reason you aren't a fan is because you have no experience with solar... correct me if I'm wrong.

I AM an advocate of solar for many reasons but primarily for the independence it brings my homestead by being 100% off-grid.

I will also say that the distributor I deal with, will give you straight talk and not a "sales pitch." It is part of their philosophy and one of the main reasons I use them and have continued to use them for the last 11 years for a variety of products.

You also made the statement that you've seen homemade panels that were as efficient as commercial panels. I will be the first to say that I've only seen a few homemade panels and there was no way they could compete with commercially produced panels.

Paul

P.S. My panels are warrantied for 20 years, without the prorate. I still have a few years left on them and they perform as well today as the day I installed them.

[Curbie]

Curbie, what is your experience with solar? What is your experience off grid?

I was able to install solar at 1/3 of the cost of installing grid power. I suspect the reason you aren't a fan is because you have no experience with solar... correct me if I'm wrong.

Sometimes I just have to go back and re-read the entire thread to try and figure out why I responding to what I am?

The thread I responded to was:
Can you make your own solar cells???

And since I have experience building them, and since I used a lot a books as guides over the years I thought it might be helpful to others to post what I thought was the best out of the bunch.

I also thought it might be helpful to reply to the "I would rather make a solar collector and use the light to boil water and then turn a steam engine." post also since I've been working on solar thermal electricity on and off since the early 80's.

Now I'm replying to off-topic posts that are FOCUSED on a small question (why do PV panels generally only carry a 2 year warranty?) buried in along with years of on-topic research links I posted.

I can't figure out the purpose of this focus:
1) are you saying that PV panels generally carry a 20 year warranty???
2) that most people can install solar at 1/3 of the cost of installing grid power???
3) that there is no difference between a Warranty and a Limited Warranty???
4) that most distributors will give you straight talk???

I'm not questioning your experiences under your circumstances (even though you're questioning mine), my honest question to you is, how are trying to help people with information on an important subject with your responses???

I’m truly happy you’ve had a good experience with your PV panels under your circumstances, I live in Florida and there is a lot of PV panels down here, I could recount horror stories about warrantees, cost, and distributors implying that these stories are indicative PV panel ownership, but in my view those stories would not be that helpful to people in making an informed decision.

I do advise people:
1) there is a legal difference between a Warranty and a Limited Warranty read and understand the warranty BEFORE you buy.
2) I don’t care how much you feel your distributors is giving you straight talk, it means nothing legally if it is NOT in writing, so if something your distributor is promising is critical to your plans, why would the distributor have a problem putting his promises into writing.
3) going off-grid with any alternative energy system is only cost effective IF the utility is charging an “arm and a leg” for connection and I think you need to do some simple math to see if this makes economic sense under your circumstances.
4) there are circumstances where alternative energy system make economic sense without going off-grid to consider also.

Now to your questioning of my experience.
Curbie, what is your experience with solar?
Solar thermal electricity - on and off ~30 years
Building PV panels - on and off ~10 years
Solar thermal heat - on and off ~5 years
What is your experience off grid?
None.

In my view there are three great things about free information:
1) it free
2) you're free to ignore it
3) you're free to offer better information

Curbie