where to start

[bookwormom]

can you guys give me a clue where to look to get started on becoming more selfsufficient power wise. we have a generator and that is it. at least we can run the well pump. hubby and I are both technical zeros. also, the high cost has been a hold up. we have waited in the hope those simpler and more efficient ways to collect solar power would become cheaper. Like the foil that you can unroll on a metal roof. I hate being stuck to the grid.
did you know that there are more solar panels per capita in Austria, of all places, where it rains all the time, than anywhere else in the world. sounthern Bavaria must run a close second. I have never seen so many solar panels on so many roofs. barn roofs completely covered, schoolhouses, whole villages have their roofs covered with them, they feed the power into the grid and get a check for what they do not use. why don't they do that here, in places where the sun shines all the time?

[bee_pipes]

I was also kind of fuzzy on the names of the parts and how a system went together. I found an excellent primer in the book "Power with Nature:Alternative Energy Solutions for Homeowners" (http://www.amazon.com/Power-Nature-Second-Alternative-Homeowners/dp/0965809897/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221522671&sr=1-1) by Rex A. Ewing. (# ISBN-10: 0965809897 # ISBN-13: 978-0965809894). The beginning of the book starts out with a corny story, but it serves the purpose intended by the author - it gets the reader familiar with the terminology and some of the concepts. After the story he gets down to hard facts and has some excellent points about the various makes and models of devices like charge regulators and inverters. He also talks about wind and hydro, not just solar.

Along similar lines, I would also recommend "Wiring a House (For Pros by Pros)" (http://www.amazon.com/Wiring-House-Pros-Rex-Cauldwell/dp/1561585270/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221522919&sr=1-1) by Rex Cauldwell (# ISBN-10: 1561585270 # ISBN-13: 978-1561585274). Whether you try to do the work yourself or hire someone to do it for you, this will explain how the existing wiring is set up and give you an idea of how new additions to the wiring need to come in.

Best of luck to you. We are in a similar situation and I am biding my time, reading what I can on the subject before making the jump.

Regards,
Pat

[12vman]

It's a serious investment to convert a home to solar and maintain your current lifestyle. Most every item in the home is geared for the grid. Trying to replace the needed power is a very expensive endeavor. A total reassessment of everything that requires electricity would be in order if you plan to convert totally.

Grid power isn't a bad deal compared to solar in most areas. It's cheap and convenient until it goes down. :P

My suggestion would be is to pick an area in your home and use this area as your learning center. Make it an area where everyone in the household can be involved every day in some fashion. Perhaps your living room. Install a small set up with some quality products that can be utilized in the future if you should decide to expand to a larger system.

Pick a few small items and isolate them to operate totally on the solar power. Possibly a DVD player or a cordless phone, or even a small stereo. Something that would catch everyones attention. Make this a project and monitor your usage to understand just how things work. Learning the concept is the majority of the battle. Applying this knowledge to a larger scale is just bigger numbers.

[roolu]

Can anyone recommend a good book or website to help me get a small system setup for the well pump?

[CarolAnn]

Bookwormmom - have you done an energy audit to see where you are using the most energy? That's the first thing I'd do. If you know where it's going, you can decide better how to cut down or change the source.

Also, if we get tax credits again, you'll see a lot more people investing in panels. I don't really understand why that should make a difference, but it seems to.

Even when you get your own family re-educated about (not) using so much power, when you're on solar, you get used to being careful when and how you use it - but all it takes is some company who come to stay. They'll admire your set up and proceed to live exactly as they do at home on the grid - and they don't understand why they can't do it at YOUR house!


Roolu,
The type of system you use for your well pump depends on several things: how deep is your well, what kind of storage to you have available (or room to add), how good is your water supply, and what your site is like: windy, sunny, uphill or down - trees, flat, etc.

Could you install an old wind mill type pump? Hand pump? Trickle pump? A trickle pump is good if you don't have much water supply - a low-powered pump takes just a tiny amount of water from the ground, but it runs all the time and slowly fills up a huge tank or cistern.

Take a good look at your situation and post the details - I know there are lots of folks here who have expertise in one area or another of pumping water!

[roolu]

Well, here's what I can tell you. My home is a rental so any type of built structure isn't possible. The land is slanted, the pump would be on the northern slope, but the angle is no more than a 20degree. The well is shallow. I think windmill type would be perfect because it is windy, but I am not allowed to build. Is there something solar that would work better? I do live in a trailor and I figure that would be the least "conspicuous" addition to my rental. The pump itself is 115v.

[Michael32170]

http://www.homepower.com/home/

[Indie-Green]

roolu,

It would cost more to get solar power for your standard 115V AC pump than for a new pump and panel.

If you have a water tank, you just need a DC pump designed for solar power and a small panel. Shurflo has made good solar pumps for decades, but there are probably cheaper options. Figure out A) the horizontal distance between your well and tank, divided by 8; and B) the vertical distance from the bottom of your well to the top of your water tank. Add A and B. Get a pump that can lift your water that high, and a panel to fit the pump.

Ana Douglas
http://www.indie-green.com

[Indie-Green]

bookwormom,

Start by saving electricity. The less you use, the less your solar system will cost.

The pieces of a basic system are A) solar panel, B) charge controller, C) battery, and D) inverter. Wire A to B, B to C, C to D. Make sure you connect positive to positive, and negative to negative. Put fuses in both positive wires attached to the battery. Put the solar panel in the sun and plug into the inverter. You have power.

Here's a very low cost starter system that won't grow much. Find a small panel of at least 50 Watts. Used is fine if it's in good shape. That's your big expense. The other parts can be pretty cheap even new. You can get a no-name charge controller for $50. Go to a car parts store to get a battery for about $50 on sale, a small car inverter for another $50 or less, and 2 fuses rated for 5 amps with fuse carriers for less than $10.

If you're not sure about the electrical work, have an electrician do it. It should take less than a hour.

If you have utility power now, don't connect any part of this tiny power system to your house wiring. Plug things directly into the inverter. Also, don't connect this to your generator in any way. This is an independent system.

This minimal system will give you a couple of hours after dark with a light load. A compact florescent light or a radio is fine. Some of the new netbook computers will work too.

A car battery won't last long used like this, so as soon as you can, upgrade to a deep cycle battery. Boat stores sometimes have good deals on these.

Don't try to run any motors or heat anything. Your tiny power system can ruin some motors in seconds. Air conditioners, fans, pumps, refrigerators, washers, dryers, and power tools all have motors, so don't plug them in. Trying to heat water or a room may damage your battery or inverter. Try not to let the battery go flat. Always recharge as soon as you can.

It won't run everything. But it's a real solar power system for your home, as safe as your car's electrical system, and it doesn't cost thousands of dollars.

Ana Douglas
http://www.indie-green.com

[Anon001]

bookwormom,
A car battery won't last long used like this, so as soon as you can, upgrade to a deep cycle battery. Boat stores sometimes have good deals on these.


Bookwormom,

I have to jump in here. Avoid marine and rv batteries. They are "labeled" deep cycle batteries but they are not a true deep cycle. They are a "hybrid" between a car battery and a deep cycle. When you get to the point of getting a deep cycle batter, your best option is two 6volt deep cycle golf cart batteries wired together for 12v. I have been 100% off grid for 10 1/2 years and happy. I have produced all my own power with solar.
Paul

[randallhilton]

can you guys give me a clue where to look to get started on becoming more selfsufficient power wise. . . .
RE: Where to start -- I'm sort of in the same boat except we live in a suburban neighborhood. I had determined that the grid would leave me before I left it, but I want to be able to maintain some sort of power if they turn out the lights. I'm serious enough about it that I even put my Harley on the market -- just in time for Paulson to yank the rug out from under the economy so now I have to fund a smaller venture.

To echo 12vman, we're going to focus on a baby step first and that is to set up a minimal system to begin with -- enough to run our fridge and some lighting. I don't think solar is going to be cost effective for selling back to the grid, not for a while yet. But our goal is simply not to go all the way back to the dark ages if the lights go out.

We're splitting the "grid independence" budget between reducing our energy needs, some solar and a tri-fuel generator. We're also working on rain catch water since around here, if the grid power goes, so does the water supply.

sounthern Bavaria must run a close second. I have never seen so many solar panels on so many roofs. barn roofs completely covered, schoolhouses, whole villages have their roofs covered with them, they feed the power into the grid and get a check for what they do not use. why don't they do that here, in places where the sun shines all the time?

My theory: For generations, the U.S. industrial machine simply required a bunch of juice. It was more cost effective to build centralized power generation and we accepted the risks and hazzards of big plants and unsightly, vulnerable distribution systems. We had lots of BIG capital to spend on the stuff.

Many other countries with emerging economies didn't have the big capital for the big projects so they did a bunch of smaller projects. This means they leapfrogged us in the power gen game. We're stuck with a huge infrastructure, much of which still isn't paid for, so it's difficult for utilities to buy back home grown power (besides being a technological nightmare in some areas). We'll get it sorted out eventually. I hope we see the light someday and get away from the vulnerable central plants but it will be a while.

[Anon001]

.....we're going to focus on a baby step first and that is to set up a minimal system to begin with -- enough to run our fridge and some lighting.



I think you are thinking in the right direction.... Starting somewhere no matter how small the baby steps are, is better than not starting at all... The one thing you may consider is that if your fridge is a typical electric fridge, it will take much more than a "minimal" system to operate it. On alternative energy, you have to also consider alternative appliances in most cases since the typical applicance is not designed to be efficient. The electric fridge is a power hog. I use a propane fridge as many people do and you can't hear it "run". Many people also use a 12V fridge or a combination. But a propane fridges and a 12V fridges are typically built better with more insulation and more efficient cooling means.

But congrats for thinking of changing and preparing... the baby step is a place to start.

I have been on solar since May 1998 and have never missed having a utility bill. LOL

Paul

[coffeelover23]

Building your own solar setup from scratch is a big endeavor, but well worth it if you do it right. You might be tempted to hire a solar installer (http://www.getsolar.com/), but with some extra effort and research you can do it yourself.

Since the benefits pay out over time, a good strategy is to do it in stages. While it might not get you off the grid right away, you will be able to budget better. Also, the second and third installations (depending on your plan) will go much smoother because you have already worked out the kinks while installing the first section. Not to mention that the technology is advancing so rapidly that the panels will be getting cheaper as time goes on.

good luck to you

[richgatesolar]

Bookwormmom,
I agree with Paul about the batteries your far better off getting 2 6 volt golf cart batteries and wiring them in SERIES to get your 12 volts, baby steps are cool and a great choice to get you going and familiarize yourself with solar. Also I tell everyone I talk to is start with conservation this goes a long way in lowering utility bills, cfl's, led's, turning off unneeded electricity, get a power strip from wall mart and plug all your cell phone, laptop,ipod chargers into it to avoid the "vampire" electrical loss just switch it on and off as needed. There are lots of ways to conserve energy that do not cost an arm and leg to implement,,,(PS I am a solar installer so keep us posted on whats going on!!) Peace,,,Richgatesolar