Government Grant question

[shinmeeok]

I have been researching different grants for awhile and haven't had any luck. I am looking for one that will allow me to build a self sufficient home. Does anyone know where there is one and how to go about getting it? Any help would be appreciated thanks.

[shinmeeok]

i need the finances to do it.

[Deberosa]

I wouldn't go with a grant, although many people do. There are lots of grants around here through the conservation district for fencing and manure control, etc.

Some people swear by them but there's one story here of how it actually killed a guy! The guy wanted to put in fencing - so they paid part of the cost but when they would come on his property they decided he had to fence out his pond, fine, then they decided he couldn't have domestic ducks then they decided he couldn't take livestock out one side of his barn, the side that opened to pasture! The demands and stress mounted till the guy had a heart attack!

Personally I'll pay my own way and not be beholden to some grant award. Might take longer to get stuff done but it won't make me dependent on meeting excessive beaurocratic demands.

Sorry, off soap box now. ;-)

[shinmeeok]

did you go to grants.gov?

[MooseToo]

just curious - why is it you think it would be a good idea for us to give you money to build a house ?

[shinmeeok]

It's been told that the government has all this money to give away and to do research and build things. I have looked on grants.gov and cfda.gov and some the grants say like construction grants and so forth. That is why I ask, thanks.

[shinmeeok]

Well now since all this "go green" and "energy efficient", and " alternative power" thing is so big.

[walls0stone]

Grants...again not offend..but it's another way for the gov to make you like them, and help Uncle Sam go into debt.

[MooseToo]

It's been told that the government has all this money to give away and to do research and build things. *I have looked on grants.gov and cfda.gov and some the grants say like construction grants and so forth. *That is why I ask, thanks.
all this money the govt has to "give away" comes from our pockets - if we are offended by our money being used to support trash like the national endowment for the arts, please inform us why we should be more delighted if our money is "given away" just because someone wants it -

[gsb]

I don't mean to be an ass, but me and my wife both drive 140 miles each round trip to work every day so we can live in a small town but still pay our house payment and our OWN bills!!!! Why should I pay for your house??? Goverment grants and subsidies are a joke! Hard working people should not be expected to pay there ownbills, house payments, car payments, grocery bill, grow there own food and pay taxes to pay for lazy, have anther babey to get more wellfare, i want a grant to pay for my land, people who can't or wont pay there own way. I have a hard enough time paying my own way yet alone paying for other people! If you can't afford to pay for it yourself,do without! I don't want to pay for your homestead. I am sorry for ranting but people who want somthing for free really strike a nerve with me! Nothing in life is free!!!

[walls0stone]

I thought the whole point of this Homestead stuff was to stand on your own 2 feet?

[WileyCoyote]

Whoa!!
Let's stop and think a minute here.
I'm going to take the poster at face value here, and ignore the fact that s/he might be a troll, gadfly, or FedHead trying to make trouble.

Think for a minute what you are asking, here, shinmeeok. You are asking a government to give you money to pursue a lifestyle that is in direct contradiction to everything for which that government stands!

If it DID have a grant available to build such a thing, your dependence on that grant would be an oxymoron - you CANNOT be "self sufficient" while using other peoples' money to build things for yourself... and a government that would 'give' you the money to do such things would not permit you to be sulf-sufficient, but would require you to follow their rules. It's like the Ford Company giving grants to build fuel-efficient cars - so that they can buy out and control the patents for that same fuel-efficiency, so that it never gets developed. There is no such thing as a "free lunch" nor "free money" - it all comes out of someone's pocket, and there is always a price to be paid for it.

We have a deeper problem here than shinmeeok's naivete, folks. What we are seeing here is the first fallout from the most recent onset of recession-approaching thought. That thought is uneducated in anything but government dependency, untutored in self-reliance, and innocent of what not only is likely to happen but what they may do to survive it. People are starting to be aware that "something bad is going to happen" but they cannot see a way out of it other than getting government dollars instead of relying on themselves and their own abilities and creativities. *THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTS - more control, even over those who would be "self-sufficient". We will see a lot more of this type of thinking as the recession/depression worsens... Those who do not DEMAND what is "rightfully theirs" will beg the government to succor them instead.

There are people just like shinmeeok all over, folks; and we talk about them in other posts... those who plan to take advantage of us as we prepare, those who think that their friendships with or relationships to us will ensure their survival so that they do not have to lift a finger for themselves, or spend their own money to do what is necessary. I have been in political and social discussion groups where people just like shinmeeok are busily predicting the end-of-the-world scenarios - and thinking that their social and/or governmental posititions and incomes - everything from Welfare to SS - will protect and provide for them.

Some can be taught; and they should not be discounted. Most cannot, will not, be taught, and will go down wondering what happened. Instead of castigating the poster out of hand, we should offer him/her the opportunity to learn. *I predict that in the next year we will see a lot more like this...

Blame government, social workers, parents, or public schools, or whatever you like - but we can be the solution rather than the finger-pointer. This reminds me of the folks who last-minute-panicked over the Y2K threat, who made all sorts of wild and unworkable plans to 'survive' - most of which would have proven deadly to not only themselves but to others had they gone into effect.

Shinmeeok, I reccomend that you look around this site and gather information on what it means to be self sufficient. There are a lot of people here with good advice and talents to help you, if you are truly interested in self sufficiency.

[rAcErRicK]

So very true WileyC. My Granpa used to tell me, there IS one free lunch : It's the cheese that's in the trap. And I never forgot it. It has saved my backside a few times too. ;)

[shinmeeok]

Well wileycoyote and whoever else I offended, it was not intended. I work hard for what I have, and as a matter of fact know what self-sufficiency is. It was just a curious question that got me thrown in front of the bus. Please think about what you are saying and don't be quick to judge, only GOD can do that. I was trying be and feel welcome here by trying to ask and learn of all that I can. I guess Iam not so welcome with thoughts that just come to me. I apologize, and also I don't own credit cards and only pay cash and do all that stuff, not catering to the brain washed younger generation. I've done some research on self-sufficiency, my family has done that for years so I know all about it. I'm trying to get there myself as soon as possible. I know what's going on in the world and watch more than stupid tv shows that don't amount to a hill of beans. Sorry to upset anyone, can't we all get along and help each other and try not to throw the "first stone."

[shinmeeok]

I have paid my dues and don't appreciate the lazy ones who want to have babies and live on welfare either, it makes me sick to see "them"

[Fred_47460]

My personal opinion.

The Government blows money on all kinds of worthless crap every day....hour....minute. The Government will NEVER spend less today than it did yesterday. The real taxes you pay will NEVER go down....they may change from one area to another....but they will never go down. That being said....that fellow looking for seed money from the government will in NO WAY effect the taxes coming out of your pocket. It may...in fact...be the only good investment our Government makes this year.

If that fellow can get a handout FROM the Government that "may" allow him to get in a better situation....then more power to him. But if I were Shinmeeok, I would not hold my breath. I would work toward reaching my goals on my own power....because YOU are the only one YOU can count on.

Again....just my opinion.

Fred

[MooseToo]

young lady - now don't go getting all that sensitive about it - face facts - you said something goofy and got called on it - nothing personal, nothing insulting - it's just that words do have meaning and once said, cannot be recalled - go on to another topic and chalk it up to experience -

[shinmeeok]

Yes Fred that is true, Iam working hard at it as of right now. I own no debts if you know what I mean. I'm not holding my breath either. I am just working hard and saving all that I can for as long as I can, and stocking up all that I can.

[MooseToo]

My personal opinion.

The Government blows money on all kinds of worthless crap every day....hour....minute. The Government will NEVER spend less today than it did yesterday. The real taxes you pay will NEVER go down....they may change from one area to another....but they will never go down. That being said....that fellow looking for seed money from the government will in NO WAY effect the taxes coming out of your pocket. It may...in fact...be the only good investment our Government makes this year.

If that fellow can get a handout FROM the Government that "may" allow him to get in a better situation....then more power to him. But if I were Shinmeeok, I would not hold my breath. I would work toward reaching my goals on my own power....because YOU are the only one YOU can count on.

Again....just my opinion.

Fred

and you feel good about rationalizing theft - "everybody does it, why not me?"
we - you and i - are the reason the govt throws our money away - they do it and we ignore it, so they do it again but worse -
grant is but another way to spell theft -

[shinmeeok]

Moosetoo you're right I have alot to learn in life everyday, and I apologize for the confusion and frustration, there really is no "dumb question", but yes it was goofy at that I suppose, depending on who you ask. It just doesn't call to make a person who is asking a simple question to look like a "donkey", thanks.

[shinmeeok]

OK next topic...

[Fred_47460]

and you feel good about rationalizing theft - "everybody does it, why not me?"
we - you and i - are the reason the govt throws our money away - they do it and we ignore it, so they do it again but worse -
grant is but another way to spell theft -


WOW....now I'm a thief !?
Man...you don't even KNOW me.
And I sure don't want to know you!

Toooodalooo

Fred

[WileyCoyote]

Shinmeeok, you didn't offend me at all. I just didn't like the way te answers to your question were heading into castigation instead of counsel and explanation. Those who have the experience and knowledge to teach and explain should do so.

Like I said, I saw the same sort of ignorance in the Y2K debacle. There is no shame in ignorance - the only shame is in refusing to be educated; i.e., purposeful ignorance. You asked, you should have been answered.

Now, bear in mind that there ARE grants available for almost everything once you get established on a piece of property - depending on where you are, how active your EcoDev and Council of Government boards are locally, as well as your farm associations, etc. There are grants for developing wind and solar power on your property, grants for seed and implement purchases, etc. Like everyone else has said before, though - those grants come with a very high price tag; not just loss of freedom as to what you can do with your property - but sometimes you can even lose your property if you do not jump thru their hoops. Monsanto will give you their seed free the first year - but it is bred with either Round-Up herbicides or animal genomes that can kill the bees that pollinate it, and is so hybridized that its seeds cannot be utilized; this defeats the goal of 'self-sufficiency'. Once you get it once, "for free" under their contract, they send it to you every year - and then bill you.

Then there is the whole controversy about how, if you feed your cattle Monsanto's genetically altered feed, they get a cut of every sale of your cattle... and actually TEST the cattle randomly at point of sale and any cow that is found to have Monsanto residue in its blood (legitimately or not), the owner gets charged!! If your neighbor uses Monsanto and you don't, Monsanto still tests your beef - and sends you a bill if they find their warped genetics in your cattle! All that just because Monsanto has developed such a wonderful product, espoused and supported by the Federal Government and its grants... Don't ever trust a free gift from a company that takes government grants to develop products; it is a hook to corrupt you and make you even more dependent - or broke if you don't accept it.

If you aren't a big dog like Monsanto or Ted Turner, who got government subsidy grants to cross buffalo with beef to produce a "better quality beef", and then got government reimbursement grants because his plan "failed" - you end by taking up the hind end of the government. Those are just a few examples of how government is working to subsidize the rich and take away from those who want to be independent. That is a nasty swamp to tread near...

[MooseToo]

WOW....now I'm a thief !?
Man...you don't even KNOW me.
And I sure don't want to know you!

Toooodalooo

Fred

no matter how often i re-read my post, i fail to find where i called you a thief - however, it is your imagination so do with it what you will -

[walls0stone]

most grants are only avalible if your a not for profit who plans to make no money...you need to be well conected and have no real need for the money. If you wish to get a grant to make money, you can't. But if your sly, well conected and give a kickback you can get one. If you want to get a windmill to water cattle..you can get one..water people..NO.. you want to build a websight or co-opp to get people to eat local grown food...sorry congressmen so and so's brother already did that.. drives his grant purchased car and have a grant pay check.

Endowments... stuff to sponcer people like Kenn Burns films or other documentry type stuff..or just pay for art to make an area look nicer...fine. but 99% of grants are BS given to people for Not For Proffit companies that do NOTHING! It's like the New Deal kicking real business out of business.

how much better would Arrow Motor have done if the Co-oops never come along? We all might have a wind mill...

But then again, I still beleave in chain gangs.

[WileyCoyote]

Well, um, actually, wallsostone, there are lots of grants available out there - if that is the way someone wants to go.

If you want to start an organic farm as a business, an "underdeveloped" area has Economic Development grants to enhance local business opportunities. Some electric co-ops HAVE to spend 'diversified power" gummint grants and offer $$ to the GenPub to put up solar or wind power. There are CDBG and other grants administrated by local gummints to repair and redo homes in LMI (Low to Moderate Income) areas. There are even grants in rural areas to enhance firefghting - buying trucks with water tanks, hoses, etc - but you can't use it just on your property but make it available to all. There are even private grants from people like Whole Foods, who will come out to your farm and determine if it is really organic - and give you a set of criteria to follow to keep it that way or they pull the funding.

And see that is the problem with most grants - the qualifications. Some grants for home repair actually put a 'forgivable' lien on your house and property - the only problem is that they determine if you meet the requirements for them to forgive the lien, and if THEY say that you don't - you can lose your house. (Which is actually how I was able to buy this property - the nice couple that got a gummint grant to fix it up had problems and got divorced, couldn't meet the requirements, and had to sell to pay off their unforgiven liens before the gummint took it from them and sold it out from under them.) Some grants require that you make your property accessible and usable by others. This MIGHT be ok if you trust those people - but what if they are developers who want to run you off and own your soon-to-be-valuable property?

Some quasi-government boards and administrations are granted money every year, and they have to use it by the end of the following fiscal year or they lose it - so they spend it on frivolous things or beg folks to apply for it. Others have more applications than they have money, every year, and have to set limits. One I know of invested $12 million of FedFunds in a private company because they guaranteed to employ 150 people. They employed 50 - then the new owners bought Land Rovers and homes in gated communities, the company went bankrupt, and the administrator of the grant looked at the board, smiled and shrugged and said - "Don't worry, it doesn't count against our credit - it was only Federal money!"The real b!^@h of it was, he was right... they got their annual FedFunds the following year.

Basically, if you want someone else to continually tell you what you can and can't do with your own property, and to supervise not only your operations but your finances, and have the power to take it all away from you at any time on any legally-applied whim, then grants are fine. Me, I don't want a nanny gummint OR private enterprise directing me toward my ultimate failure - and then having the power to sell it out from under me, for my own good.

[walls0stone]

if your well conected, willing to do a not for profit, a gov stuge, or ready to sell your soul... you can get a grant.

and the organic rackeet..that's right I said RACKEET! is a load of crap! the standards are double for everything and they can tell you who to buy what from.

so for real capitalism, ThEre IS nO GraNt!

[CarolAnn]

Shinmeook,

I can't speak about government grants from personal experience, but I can speak about government loans for a homestead. In the late 70's, my husband (now ex) and I bought land and started building our homestead in Arkansas with the capital gains from selling our home. We quickly realized that we had grossly underestimated how long it would take to buld and what it would cost. Since the house I designed was earth sheltered, the conservative banks in Arkansas just laughed us right out the door. Our only alternative (it seemed) was to borrow money on an FmHA loan. (That's Farmer's Home Administration and it doesn't exist any longer, at least in that form - thank heavens!)

We had about $28,000 in the land and improvements, not counting our own sweat equity! The land, the well, the excavation and most of the materials were paid for, so they weren't really taking much of a risk. So for a measley 13.25% INTEREST, they "gave" us enough money to finish the house. They also gave us a whole bunch of rules that we had to follow to meet their standards. We didn't fully realize what that interest rate would amount to over 30 years - but believe me - its a LOT. We had a really nice guy at FmHA to deal with, though. He was retiring and he wanted to do something really interesting for his last project, so he really went to bat for us in getting the house plans approved. (The first word we heard from them *was "FmHA don't build no weird houses. Fergitit.")

Roll forward 14 years. We got a divorce and my exhusband immediately defaulted on the loan. I was holding down three part time jobs in an effort to keep up with the payments - and that was helped some by the fact that they'd base my payments on my income. I still owed 100% of the interest and payments, but they'd defer it until I ever sold the house, then take it if I made any profit. I hung on by my teeth and fingernails for about 10 years, with several low-paying jobs, which is all there were in Arkansas at that time. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

Then my sister told me to come to Wisconsin and live with her free for one year so I could complete my degree and get a higher paying job. I rushed to do that. Then, like a fool I wrote to FmHA saying that I was going to school and could I get a lower rate for a while?

Now, the nice guy had retired and a not-so nice guy had taken his place. He hated it that they had an earth-shelter on their books. (Back to "We don't build no weird houses.) They also don't refinance when interest rates drop!

Although I had not missed a payment, I got a letter that said if I didn't return to Arkansas IMMEDIATELY they would forclose on my house because I had "abandoned" it. I asked if I could get a renter. They said no. So my brother helped me out. As a student with a part time job, I couldn't get a bank loan, but he could, and he did. I continued making payments, only I sent him the money and he made them because the loan was now in his name. In effect, I "sold" the house to him although I was still making the payments.

I got a letter from FmHA saying I couldn't sell the house because they didn't give me permission to!

I don't loose my temper easily, but when I do . . . look out. And this guy really fried my beans. I was ready to eat nails and spit tacks I was so mad. I said a few things I won't repeat here, but the gist of it was: I already did it. It's a done deal. You just do what you have to do.

So let me tell you this: from my experience, dealing with the government is NOT worth the hassle, headache and heartache. There will most certainly be strings attached that will eventually strangle the life right out of you. This may not be true in all cases, but that was my experience.

[Drawbar]

We have got grants in the past and I am working on a few right now. They are not necessarily a bad thing, but as other people pointed out, it does require you "to play the game" so to speak. For the most part its easy to do, and generally speaking its for the betterment of all.

Right now I must get a Comprehensive Nutrient Management Plan in place, which is a big title for spreading cow manure on my land. There is a tonnage and weight threshold to reach...and while many claim this is government conspiracy, the fact is, if you lived next to me wouldn't you want to make sure I was spreading the right amount on the proper numbers of acres? Hell its my own land and I do. So I'll get that CNMP, get help paying for it and be done with it.

Another grant I am working on is getting some fencing up for some sheep. I got a USDA guy coming out this week to figure out what I need and what's the best way to graze what pastures I have. As I said "you got to play the game."

So how do these grants work, well its not about who this person knows and why, its all about timing. This country is mapped out into 1 mile blocks and a certain amount of money is allotted these blocks every so many years. You go through the hoops, get yourself on a list and when the money comes up, you get it. The thing is, and this is HUGE. The government takes its sweet time with you, but when its time to go, you have to drop everything you are doing and get the job done to get it. It sucks sometimes, but "you have to play the game."

Just like everything else, the government has its priorities. As someone else stated, farming right now is one of those priorities. With farmers dropping out of the game, and few young people stepping up, money is becoming available for young farmers like me to keep the family farm farming.

And that is a big part of getting these grants. The grant has to match the mission statement of the government dept issuing it. For instance, there is not a huge push right now to get new farms started, they want to retain the existing ones. So if you want to start a sheep farm, you can't even apply for the grant. But if your farm has had sheep in the past, and the fence is there but unusable, you can get a grant to have sheep fence installed.

Now some of the posters on here have given you old information. Gone are the days of having you do the work, and getting refunded a portion of the money. Its now a set fee. So if they are paying 10 bucks a foot for fencing, and it costs me 7 bucks a foot to install it, I can keep the money and invest it elsewhere. But if the fencing costs 13 bucks a foot, yep I have to come up with the extra 3 bucks. Its truly more of a grant now.

[Drawbar]

In the next town over, a small community college is building an energy efficient house that is supposed to produce more energy then it consumes. Its a pretty neat concept, and it to was given a grant, but as you might note, it was given to a college to administer and not an individual.

I have a feeling you will have a tough time getting a grant for something that is just for you. If you could reconfigure your building so that it impacted a great number of people, you would stand a better chance.

Have you considered starting a CSA that requires and energy efficient building? What about having an energy efficient home that takes in foster children or children with disabilities?

Those are a couple of twists you might be able to work to apply and receive a grant. Be creative and do a little thinking and you might be able to work it a bit. Its all in the wording, and who is going to benefit from the money. Just yourself...not very likely, but if you are helping the community (or in my case putting cheap food into the national food supply), you stand a better chance.

By the way here is a link to that Unity College House. You just might need a grant after all...it might be energy-producing but it has a 450,000 dollar price tag!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS208286+28-Apr-2008+PRN20080428

[walls0stone]

I'm guessinng that the grant did in part what they thought it would do.. draw attion to the house they built and the school that did it.

[TheUnboundOne]

Dear Shinmeeok,

As I said in your other thread on this subject, you would be better off making the place where you are more self-sufficient, even in small ways by growing a few things, raising tropical fish for sale in an apartment, starting a self-publishing business, etc. Then take whatever you save and earn and apply it towards a down-payment on your dream homestead.

What you do for yourself will always beat anything from Uncle Sugar.

[MooseToo]

most can see the wisdom in the old saying recommending not to "rob peter to pay paul" -

with grants we have the situation of the govt "robbing peter to buy paul's vote" -

the very first person to initiate a gov't give-away program in the form of "grants" should have been lynched as an example to others who would steal from citizens -

[Drawbar]

the very first person to initiate a gov't give-away program in the form of "grants" should have been lynched as an example to others who would steal from citizens -

I get grants and I don't consider it stealing. I think of it more as tit for tat.

Four months ago they predicted gasoline would go to $3.79 a gallon in July and then go back down...in the mean time they told us farmers that "the price of milk would go from 19 dollars to 22 dollars in mid July, then start going back down, stopping at 20 dollars."

So in other words, they have no idea, clue or care about what the price of fuel goes for, but by golly then can DICTATE to us what, where and when the price of our commodity will be. For what its worth, milk prices will do just what they say it will.

So we "play the game", they know they are screwing us, and so they hand out plenty of grants and low interest loans to keep us farming. We take them, and we continue to farm and the people in New York, Boston, Philly or anywhere else, can go to the store and buy a nice refreshing gallon of milk at a decent price because that's what its all about. Cheap food prices.

Is it a crazy system? You god damn right it is, but its a system that works so well even our poor people are fat.

[walls0stone]

I don't think it's the same..But Uncle Sam should but out of agg.

If they want to see world change...Start shooting the tanks of milk trucks!