China

[FZRaven]

First off, I don't like stuff that's made in China myself. But most people seem to have some twisted idea that everything made in China is junk, that's not the case. The Chinese can make things just as good as anyone in the US or any other country. The real problem which It appears nobody wants to admit is right here in the good old US of A.

It's all about the money, materialistic greed. We the people demand cheaper goods, we the people demand more goods, we the people demand we get paid more. But we still expect to get paid more, yet pay less for the goods we want. *That's just not the way it works, you get paid more, the price of goods goes up as they cost more to produce. So as we demand cheaper goods these company's that want to remain competitive have no choice but to move to China, we forced them into it. When I say we I'm talking about the majority, most people here are the opposite.

The fact is that if the Chinese had decent materiel to work with, and were trained right they would make goods to rival anything produced in any country in the world. We demand cheap goods, so company's give minimal training and supply them with cheap materiel. It's all about the money, that's the problem with a capitalist society.

Don't think for even a minute that it will be fixed any time soon. At most we could hope that the economy crashes and our money becomes worthless, then we'll have to produce goods here. More likely China will get to expensive for cheap production, which it already is. We'll move on to another country and exploit it's cheap labor and materials until they become to expensive.

Of course this leads us to one problem, we build up the economy of other country's. At some point a country has to go broke, there is only so much wealth on this planet. I think that sooner rather than later we will be that country that crashes. So in essence we blindly sow our own fate, with the masses blind to the consequences of our policy's.

So really what I want to say is this, Don't talk about the Chinese like they are beneath us. Like they are some sort of simpletons, these are the people that invented gunpowder long before we even thought of becoming a nation. They have a rich history of invention, and are as equal as any of us. They helped build our first rail lines, and really who does not like Chinese food?

[docsoos]

Interesting post.

I agree with most of what you say; some of the things you left out were the labor costs of here versus there, enviromental laws of here versus there, etc.

I agree 100% that the people have caused most of this, by clamoring for cheaper goods. Wal-Mart is just meeting the demand.

I went to Wal-Mart yesterday, and one particular item I was looking to purchase was a hand scrub brush. Nothing fancy, just a scrub brush.

After looking at ALL of them they had for sale, one was manufactured in Mexico, ALL the others from China. The most expensive one was $2.97, and I would have paid close to $5.00 if there was a QUALITY one made here in the States, but there were NONE AVAILABLE. So, I left without purchasing one; I'll make do with what I have until I can go to the local hardware store (we still have a Mom & Pop store) that carries most EVERYthing made in America, IF it's still manufactured here.

DocSoos

[FZRaven]

Interesting post.

I agree with most of what you say; some of the things you left out were the labor costs of here versus there, enviromental laws of here versus there, etc.

I agree 100% that the people have caused most of this, by clamoring for cheaper goods. Wal-Mart is just meeting the demand.

I went to Wal-Mart yesterday, and one particular item I was looking to purchase was a hand scrub brush. Nothing fancy, just a scrub brush.

After looking at ALL of them they had for sale, one was manufactured in Mexico, ALL the others from China. The most expensive one was $2.97, and I would have paid close to $5.00 if there was a QUALITY one made here in the States, but there were NONE AVAILABLE. So, I left without purchasing one; I'll make do with what I have until I can go to the local hardware store (we still have a Mom & Pop store) that carries most EVERYthing made in America, IF it's still manufactured here.

DocSoos
I did leave out the environmental laws, but indeed they are a large part of it. But I did touch on the labour cost a bit, simple most Americans think they are worth more than they are. I job that anyone can do, like most production jobs is worth almost nothing. People expect to get paid boku bucks for unskilled labor, it don't work that way. In a capitalist society, like our own who will work for the lowest amount of money is the winner. These major company's could if a shit less about the worker, it's all about the money.

The thing that gets to me is people talking bad about the Chinese, not that I've seen much of it here. But that people think that for some reason the Chinese are some how not equal to us. They seem to look over the real problem and instead focus on the people that have really nothing to do with it. The Chinese people that work these production jobs are doing the same as one and me, trying to provide for their family.

The real problem is large corporations, these people care for nothing but how much money they can make. People are but tools, to be used and throw away when they are of no further use.

[CatherineID]

My husband just returned from an extended business trip in China. Here are his impressions ...

1) China's cities are the most polluted in the world. He said if I attended a trip with him, it would kill me (I have asthma)

2) There is no welfare system. Everyone works. People are very entreprenurial there. He said he saw people setting up curbside bicycle repair stations because it was a way to make money. There are thousands of mom & pop stores that sell all the same junk but they rely on their clientele to make a small incme. BTW, NO ONE begs. Not only will no one give a begger spare change - after all, if they can work why can't the begger - but the police will put the begger in jail.

3) Up until recently workers were not only allowed to take meth in order to work more hours, they were even supplied by their employers. There has been some crack down on the activity which just drive it underground.

4) Poor people are EXTREMELY poor. We can't even imagine the pennies a day they live on. Prices are low, too. Compared to the USA everything is very cheap. Hubby had a haircut that included two shampoos (one before and one after the haircut), a scalp and a shoulder massage and it cost no more than $2.50 and that's for two different people providing the service plus two support people. He gave them a $3 tip, but the first person who he offered it to refused.

[madmac]

Thanks FZRaven for such an informative post. Well presented. I to am tired of made in China and would love nothing more than to see America get back to the days of producing everything we need. But as you so stated. It would cost too much and folks just go for the best deal. Sad but true. We are Chinas best customer.

[dreams_in_color]

It is like was said earlier we want cheap. We had rather spend 2.97 for a cheap scrub brush and replace it next year than 5.00 for one that will last 5 years. We are a throw away society.

There was an article the other day about who we are exporting our recyclables. Even though it is 80% cheaper to make new cans out of old cans. What does that tell you?

I agree with buy American but where can you find it?

[CarolAnn]

Personally, I'd rather have China as a friend than an enemy. They do have a long looooong way to go in worker and human rights, but they are slowly getting it. It's a different culture than we know - things will never be the same there as here - some worse, some better - but never the same.

Their growing economy is closely linked to ours, and it's in their best interest that the American economy doesn't fall down too far - that's some sort of insurance policy, I think.

Many people in China DO live in poverty - but by what standard? Self sufficiency is something many of the folks that frequent this forum are striving for - and that will include relative poverty. If you have an abundance of good, fresh self-produced food, the absence of a nut-job for a boss and no back-stabbing ambitious co-workers stepping on your head, no daily two-hour commute, etc - that's not a bad trade off for less dollars in my opinion.

[anna]

I believe there is extreme danger in allowing China to become our supplier. We no longer manufacture steel. We've exported our manufacturing of most everything offshore along with the technology and machines. Where does that leave our country if China or for that matter most of the rest of the world decides we need to be broken and stop supplying us? We won WWII because we were able to gear up and manufacture everything needed for the war effort. Today even the Army imports bullets. Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous to be dependent instead of independent as a nation.