Re: Cost Effective?

[annawolfsong]

Save your seeds and trade seeds with other folks so you don't have to buy seed again.

My husbands outdoor work clothing doesn't get washed until it walks itself to the washer and I really don't see that much more laundry from my gardening vs. dry cleaning all that expensive office clothing I used to have.

Irrigation if you have to pay for water is expensive but if you can do water catchment it becomes easier. Having a well is best but non-metered water isn't all that bad.

Yes you have to use some electricity to can, dry and freeze but you could use an outdoor hearth to can and use less expensive wood there and a solar dehydrator is pretty easy to make. Freezers are dang cheap to run and I would use this anyway for stockup so no difference there.

Tools are a one time thing and fuel, well, I garden without any electrical/fossil fuels.

Food costs are estimated to rise 15-25% this year alone so having a garden and some chooks will probably be *very* cost effective in the long run.

I won't even get into the supposedly "organic" food at China Mart and other places. If it's trucked in from all over the world, how can you even trust the label.

Personally I think it's very cost effective to garden and buy local. It's certainly much, much healthier especially if you cost out being in the hospital for bad food vs. staying really healthy with your own.

[Buck]

"Save your seeds and trade seeds with other folks so you don't have to buy seed again. "

Sorry, this will NOT work like it used to. There are now GM seeds
and Heritage seeds. GM seeds will NOT sprout from season to season
like the old tried and true Heritage seeds did.

Monsanto, Cargill, etc, all are working very hard to push Heritage
seeds off the market to make 100% sure that you HAVE TO buy
seeds from them every season. If you have Heritage seeds guard
them like gold 'cause in a way they really are "food" gold!!

[annawolfsong]

Respectfully I disagree. There are many companies still selling open pollination heritage seeds. I just purchased some this spring to augment my stash from Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds. There are also many folks around the country saving seeds and doing swaps.

Your basic seed from nurseries is not what you want usually but if you purchase OP seeds to begin with from any number of sources you can go forward and not buy seed unless you want new varieties.

My plan is to get together with other gardening friends next spring and we are going to split our orders up so we all have different OP seeds and swap them around. After that, unless we want different stuff I suspect we won't be buying seed anymore.

[Shamrock1121]

I no longer do home canning because it just doesn't pay. First of all, I end up with foods that are void of nutrition from high-heat processing. Second of all, with utility prices as high as they are, nothing like heating up the kitchen plus the extra work on the air conditioner to try to cool the house off.

Here's a good article on the Cost of Preserving and Storing Food. http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/08704.html

I also got rid of my free-standing freezer. It was a convenience, but not a good method for food preservation. The December ice storm proved that theory correct. The extra spent on utilities - especially with those old freezers, and ones stored in hot garages or sheds - will more than eat away any food savings you toss in the thing. Not to mention all the forgotton or imporperly packaged foods that get tossed into the trash. Wasted food is ALWAYS our most expensive food.

Now all I have is my refrigerator/freezer. This is why I dehydrate more foods than ever. It's not for everyone, but it suits my needs quite well, and I can store a heck of a lot of tomatoes in a quart jar when you dehydrate them.

I also grow fresh foods indoors all year in the form of greens, herbs and sprouts (bean and seed sprouts). Foods that contain real enzymes, not dead foods with little nutrition. I can also get several months of cold-weather crops out of my little cold frame. In a mild winter, I'll harvest greens out of it all winter long.

Some things to think about that touch each of us differently depending on our many circumstances. Thanks for starting the thread. :)

-Karen

[annawolfsong]

I can see where canning indoors would be a pain but I can outdoors either over a wood fire or on a gas grill. Very cost effective.

I also respectfully disagree regarding canning and nutrients.

"According to a 1997 University of Illinois study and other recent studies, the canning process actually may help to enhance the nutrient profile of certain foods."

Those foods included pumpkin, canned beans and canned tomatoes. While some foods do lend themselves very well to drying and I actually prefer dried beans to canned I much prefer canned tomatoes and squash to dried.

I guess it comes down to each his own but I truly do believe, especially in the face of ever increasing food costs, that doing for oneself is much healthier and if managed rather than wasted far, far more cost effective.

BTW I love the article you referenced, thank you!

[CarolAnn]

Sandycane -
Do what works for you. Whoever sold you 13 kernals of corn for $3 should be ashamed. That wouldn't have been enough stalks to make more seed, even if they all had grown. You need to have a minimum of four good rows for pollination, and then at the outside, it will be scanty. If you keep gardening, just make sure you never do business with them again!

Start-up for livestock is going to be expensive - it's the second year that chickens start to pay back the cost of the pen and housing. If you can feed them scraps and garden trimmings, all the better. If it's just yourself, you may well see a better return by not having your own chickens. (Are you planning on eating the meat? That will also be part of the dividend, but is also a lot more dirty work to collect it!)

Mulch the heck out of your garden and put the tiller away - that will solve both the weed problem and help with the watering issues, since it conserves moisture.

There should be one more dividend to this experience: joy. If being outside in your garden doesn't bring you inner peace and joy, and if putting up your own good foods and seeing those pretty jars in a row doesn't fill you with satisfaction - buy it instead! Differen't strokes for different folks. Not everyone gets that good feeling from producing their own food. If you do, it's worth it. If you don't, there's nothing wrong with you - it's just not your cup of tea and that's fine too.

[sbemt456]

CarolAnn I agree with all you said 100%. I have only one arm that works well and a back that dont work but by golly I will raise a garden and my chickens and any thing else that I can get my hands on for a couple of reasons. One is what good will it be to have the money to buy food when there is none to buy or you just cant afford the price. Second any thing you purchase is mass produced and handled in bulk by one route or the other under USDA guidelines and inspection, but the USDA also has "filth" standards that allow so many rat droppings per X amount of grain etc, etc. . Well those standards will not float in my kitchen and this is by far my biggest hang up about buying instead of growing. But this is what works for me and this is what I find a great deal of satisfaction in, and I will continue to do it till I die. But it wont be from the lack of good food. Canned, dried, frozen or otherwise. Just my thoughts folks, even my youngest sons ask me if it wasnt cheaper to buy rather than raise, and yeh depending on what it is, maybe, but I know how my home produced stuff was taken care of.

Have a great day!

stella

[GoodDaughter]

Sandycane, I'm curious about something you mentioned... are you adding in the cost of what your labor is worth to your calculations? (say your labor is worth $8/hr and it takes you 10 hours to do something = $80). I found out a very long time ago that if I calculated a theoretical 'self paying wage' into everything I did, heck, nothing around the homestead is cost effective, especially when no cash flow is generated from those self-sustaining tasks. If I was selling a homestead-raised product, then I might factor my own 'wages' into the sale price. But when I raise things for my own consumption... can't be factored that way no matter what people tell you, except perhaps for a mental exercise in basic mathematics.

Also, as someone else mentioned, the initial cost of things like equipment, lumber and materials for pens/housing, feeders, etc., no, once again it's not worth it for the first year, and probably the second and thrid years too. Things 'pay for themselves' over time by supporting the production of your vegetables, fruit, and poultry. Same theory with wood heat, which is an example I use all the time. I converted to total wood heat back in 1998. I spent about $4000.00 on a good quality wood stove and all the pipe and all the safety features. It took about 5 years for the woodstove to pay for itself in terms of money I would have spent on propane and electric heat. Now my heating is free and clear except for a few bucks a year for gasoline and my (free) labor to get firewood.

My concern about relying on grocery stores, farmers markets, and other farmers is that the possibility of food supply disruptions, shortages, etc. are always a possibility. Look at the scare about commercially raised tomatoes right now... contaminated with salmonella and many people very ill, and many stores yanked tomatoes altogether off their shelves in this area (not just the Roma and 'large, round' varieties--they've pulled them all). And remember the spinach, lettuce, strawberry etc contaminations of years past. You simply couldnt' find these in stores at the time. I don't have to worry about what I have growing. I know it's clean, raised free of pesticides, and has no insect parts in it when it's canned. :P

[CarolAnn]

Straw makes good mulch, as does moldy hay and even grass clippings put over layers of newspaper. Straw isn't full of weed seeds like hay is, so I'd consider that an excellent choice!

I had a friend here who has since left the forum, but he was determined to have his first garden looking pretty with tilled earth between the rows like he'd seen growing up. His buddy mulched his garden and they had a contest to see which one was better. Mulch won - no contest between both yield and less work. Also, as it decomposes, it adds humus to the soil which makes it richer for next year.

[mom]

Agreed, gardening and growing your own food but....what would you do if that was the only way to eat and you had never learned how?

Gardening for me is therapy? How much does a therapist cost nowdays?

Learn to work smarter not harder. Mulch, mulch, mulch - and get the weeds before they take over. Containers can also be used to grow most anything, more than you can use in a year and it's easier to moniter their water use most efficiently, not to mention less weeding and easier on your back - think of them as smaller, raised beds. I should mention that corn hates containers but beans, squash, potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, gourds - almost anything else will actually do very well. They won't take as much water and you can move them for the optimum sun exposure.

Agreed chickens take a while to pay for themselves especially if you have to buy chickens to raise as meat every time. I have about an acre which is actually 4 lots and the chickens have the run of one of those lots along with the ducks. I have about 100 mature rose bushes planted in that area and they keep all the weeds out for me and don't hurt the roses - my mother plants for propogating and selling and they fertilize for me. I figure if I had to pay someone to weed that area for me I would spend more on them than what little I spend on the chickens and ducks. We do suplement their feed but they wouldn't starve if we didn't. Cleaning birds for meat is work and it is messy but it's not that hard. I used to help my dad clean ducks after he went duck hunting - not that hard.

Victory gardens during WWII produced a substantial amount of food for the people at home. We have developed into a society that demands instant gratification - I WANT IT AND I WANT IT NOW - what has happened to our self sufficiency; what has happened to the idea that food produced by your own hands that you could share with friends and family was an act of loving and caring for the people around you.

[bookwormom]

quote
Of course you are right about the joy of gardening...I do enjoy it. But, I need to seriously consider not only the expense but, the physical labor involved in growing my own food.

I think we are older than you. we are in great shape for our age. Other folks pay money to go to the gym for a 'work out'.
I figure my produce is worth more than what you would pay at the markets. How much do you pay for a quart of organic strawberries? How about rasp,black and blue berries? fresh stuff is so expensive. I grow a lot of kitchen herbs, and use them in quantity. I could not afford them if I had to buy them.

[mom]

quote


I think we are older than you. we are in great shape for our age.

I am old as dirt - so you don't bend but scoot on your backside or use your brain to find a less physically taxing method. "Age and cunning will win over muscle and youth every day".

[docsoos]

My concern about relying on grocery stores, farmers markets, and other farmers is that the possibility of food supply disruptions, shortages, etc. are always a possibility. *Look at the scare about commercially raised tomatoes right now... contaminated with salmonella and many people very ill, and many stores yanked tomatoes altogether off their shelves in this area (not just the Roma and 'large, round' varieties--they've pulled them all). And remember the spinach, lettuce, strawberry etc contaminations of years past. You simply couldnt' find these in stores at the time. *I don't have to worry about what I have growing. I know it's clean, raised free of pesticides, and has no insect parts in it when it's canned. *:P

Excellent reasoning....That's the main reason I raise a larger garden now. Even if I decide NOT to, by choice or health reasons, at least I have the knowledge and experience, and the tilled plot to keep myself and my family alive during "hard times". And, they may be closer than anyone thinks. ;)

Keep plugging away, Sandycane, and good luck! :D

DocSoos

[lateaprildawn]

I do add to my stores gradually from local supermarkets but i have become rather " hyper aware" of checking those bargain buys.

I checked 3 of my local big brand stores prices for tinned peas. There were only a few pennies between them but when opened and drained and weighed the actual peas ,the most expensive tin turned out to be the most economical.

OK it might be a bit "retentive" of me but boy do i hate to feel conned .

Last week I saw a bargain offer emblazoned all around the store, 3 tins for £1, the only problem was that the premium brand (moved to a different part of the store) worked out at 90c for 3 tins. I put my shopping basket down and walked out in disgust and shopped else where.

I do tend to do a lot of trials between the "budget" brands and the "premium" brands and i have been surprised at how often the results are a close run thing.

Best wishes,
April

[GoodDaughter]

Oh, popcorn, Lord don't get me started!! I don't like those prefab bags of popcorn you put in the microwave. I just don't. I prefer using a decrepit air popper I got at the junk store for $1. So I go looking for a "bag" of plain old popcorn... 'member when popcorn came in a bag, and NOT the type you microwave? Hah, no such thing anymore! I had to go to three stores before I found a JAR of popcorn kernels, and then they only had a few jars on the shelf. Oddly enough, Jiffy Pop was still available, right alongside all the boxes containing individual bags of prefab microwave popcorn.

The cost of berries is another thing... Wal Mart has strawberries advertised at a 'good' price, but I've been fooled by them before. They look really nice, but when you bite into them, they are sour with very little strawberry flavor. And they are so firm they almost crunch. IMO, they are an overbred, overpriced waste of money. I'll take the lumpy, misshapen, thimble sized home grown berries every time because they actually taste like strawberries!

And other fruit---plums for example. I picked a big bowl full of plums today, and ate about five before I got in the house. Delicious, full of flavor and juicy. They did not resemble the last store-bought plums in any way because the store bought were such a pale imitation of what a plum should taste like.

I think sometimes stores run false sale prices in order to move stock that isn't selling very well. I've seen the 3/$1 sales too, but when checking on similar items, it's actually cheaper to buy the similar item. I also think people often don't keep food prices in mind so they see a sign saying 3/$1 and they think it's a good deal.

When I was little, our school went on a field trip to a sugar factory. I saw that the sugar was coming down a series of funnel looking things and filling bags. The bags were labled 'Imperial', a higher priced sugar. Then after a while the bags were 'Hy Top', which is a cheaper store brand. AND IT WAS THE SAME SUGAR!! I learned my lesson about that one at a very young age.