How much are you prepaired to take?

[Cutter]

How much are you prepared to take and how do you deal with fuel prices? I have a gas Jeep and a diesel pickup and the prices of both are awful. Gas at $4.04 and diesel at $5.15.
I've been stockpiling food for the last few months so at least we have a head start, but I'm wondering what will be the breaking point? $6, $7, $10 a gallon, when will the revolt start and what form do you think it will take?
Do you think it will be a violent revolt? A refusal to pay auto payments or taxes? Do you think life will ever get back to what we all knew as normal?
Maybe I'm a little old but I'm in the market for a motorcycle. Haven't ridden one in20yrs but at least I can keep on working for a while. I tried retirement and didn't like it so I really don't want to have to quit.
What are you all going to do to cope?

[walls0stone]

suck it up and take it..
perhaps when people can't take poor little johnney and judy to scoccer practice, they will tell the rest of the mommys in the book club that drilling off the coast of texas was not a bad idea.

[WRTN]

That is a good question Cutter. Apparently fuel prices aren't high enough yet because the highways and roads are still overflowing with people driving the same vehicles.

On a positive note, the sheriff deputies and police can no longer afford to drive around either, so that is a HUGE plus. ;D Maybe the big decision makers will start laying them off and save money that way. But then again, I wasn't thinking.........all the police and deputies were doing was revenue collecting in the first place. My theory may not be sound after all. ::)

A friend and I put some higher performance fuel injectors in my cummins on the Dodge and an Edge EZ and that boosted the fuel economy up about 4 mpg as long as I discipline my right foot. ;)

On the food thing, you and me both. We have been doing that for almost a year.

If you want to see what can likely happen in a scenario such as this, try reading this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Patriots-Surviving-Collapse-Turbulent-Expanded/dp/1425734073/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212012969&sr= 8-1

This book is not for everyone but it is a storehouse of VERY good survival and self reliance information. My wife and oldest daughter have read it and they have a new found understanding and respect for life and human nature. Now the wife is bringing home more cases of canned food and other items like toilet paper, salt, rice, etc. Most folks have no idea how much they value an item until it is gone.

I think the first measures the government will take are firing up the money printing presses and putting them into warp drive but this will only be a short temporary fix. Read the book. You'll see what I am talking about.

Another good website that is a daily morning coffee read is:

http://www.survivalblog.com/

Again a fantastic source of great survival and self reliance info. from the author of the above book.

Better start talking to your neighbors about security measures and working to help one another.

Trade and barter are the wave of the future and when this starts is when "Big Brother" will get mighty ugly because the revenue stream from all of the taxes, fines, tickets, fee, permits, etc., etc., will begin to dry up. Ammunition, silver, copper, foods, livestock, nails, etc, will become the new currency in the worst case. I don't think we are there yet but sometimes I wonder how close we really are?

[madmac]

I beat the high price of fuel for now. I bought a 250 Ninja. gets 65 to 70 MPG and more than keeps up with traffic. $2999 new for 2007. It is a sport bike per say but you are sitting upright. I am not a young guy myself and the bike is a lot of fun. I was spending $40 a week for my truck. Now I spend $14 every other week. They can stick their guel were the sun don't shine. I truly think things will get worst, much worst and we will probably never see realistic prices on anything to do with the nessesities of life such as food, clothing, fuel including heating fuel or anything else they know we can't live without. As far as how much will we take. The majority of Americans have lost the fight, their spirit for what freedom cost so you would be hard pressed to find enough willing to fight for what this country should be. Our government will continue to sell it off to the highest bidder and our political figures our only in it for the money. We rely so much on China now that if they were to cut us off and stop exports completely you would see riots within a month maybe sooner. Think about it.

[walls0stone]

http://iloveebikes.com/

Try this sight.

[Cutter]

That is a good question Cutter. Apparently fuel prices aren't high enough yet because the highways and roads are still overflowing with people driving the same vehicles.

People drive what they have. When they bought them all was fine.

uck it up and take it..
perhaps when people can't take poor little johnney and judy to scoccer practice, they will tell the rest of the mommys in the book club that drilling off the coast of texas was not a bad idea.

The people I know aren't soccer moms they are single parents trying to give their families a home. What would you do when the choice is gas to go to work or food? That choice is hitting a lot of families now. It's not their fault gas is going up so fast. You have to wonder how high the oil company profits will be this quarter.

[logansackett]

I got a killer deal on a 78 kz 1000 for 200. Just need to rebuild the carbs and I am set.
To be honest I am concerned because I am starting so late to build my pantry, but what can you do?

[walls0stone]

Good, let them cut us off! the only way to get this nation back to it's former, strong and hard working self is to have all things back in perspective.

[madmac]

Hey at least you are aware of the problems to come and are filling the pantry. You would be surprised at how many folks think this is going away soon and are still living life in the fast lane. Buying new cars, eating out every night and not saving a dime. I see a lot of bankrupt Americans in the future. Keep what you have running. If it is a gas guzzler maybe buy something cheaper but stay with something used. Get some money stashed somewere safe and store food. I mention the cash as I don't trust the bank with all my money. Someone mentioned ammo as a bartering tool. It could wind up being a very good bartering tool for sure. Something to think about.

[madmac]

I agree with getting back to an American America but if you think about it. America wasn't built over night and a sudden shortage of food and other esential supplies would create riots in the streets and many good Americans would pay. Sure wish this was easy but it's not. It is sad. We have sold almost all of our manufacturing as well as our ability to supply our own nation with the basics of life.

[madmac]

One more thought on China cutting us off. Better load your guns and get ready for a fight. If they was to stop exports it would be for reasons not healthy for this country. Face it. They are as greedy as our own government. They would stop exporting to America for one reason. To weaking our state so we would be easier to defeat. We were a stronger nation 50 years ago. We have become dependent.

[walls0stone]

your right and the sooner we get started the sooner it is over. I'm 29, most people my age have never known hard times..(note I said most)

We and those younger than I think that to win the Civil war, or WW2 takes all of 12 hours thanks to Ken Burns. We go on line and get all the answers rather than a book, and we don't have to fight over what show to watch since each house has 3 sets and you can see whatever you want on your computer.
It will take years and years, so let's get started.

[walls0stone]

On China, I don't think it would be that kind of war.

They have stolen our millitary secrets in the last year via computer tec. They could just as easly remove a satilite in space. Or hijack SS numbers and create Credit Card havic as the bloody cost of war. much of the Asain Army today is all about hacking.

what modivation would they have to kill a major customer? They could just as easly come over and buy us out as shoot us and with far more consent from the rest of the world.

[madmac]

Your right you know. They are already killing us somewhat in the manner you mention. It's just a slow death most don't see. Great post cutter. Great participation as well. I have posted some of my thoughts but keep in mind, they are only thoughts. Nothing to back them. Just an old guy wondering how this came to be and were it's going. I really miss the America I grew up with.

[walls0stone]

sadly, I do know for fact that they took millitary info concernting our US Navy about a year ago. How do I know, well I have meet some very intresting people in my business.

Also, 1/4th of the red army is deticated to stealing and hacking our info...how? well why spend the money to build the best chicken catcher you can...when you can just surf threw people's computers via softwere and take the idea from a smart person's home computer. Build it before he can and you've stolen a million dollar idea. You look smarter and the idea is bloodless. but those people worked, they knew that the world owed them nothing. we've been fat and happy.

[jott]

I don’t think there will be any major fighting. Maybe something like the riots of the past, but probably not full out anarchy.

When no one can afford the debt they have the Fed will just keep lowering interest rates. Inflation will be so high that it dose not matter if you owe 100K because in a year or so everyone will be making 100K a year. But you will still not be able to get out because everything will cost more. That is when the people that are responsible and saved money will be out of luck because that 100K saved with years of hard work is now not worth anything either. So then everyone has nothing, the only way to live will be on welfare and food stamps if the government even bothers with using money for food distribution. I don’t think most people will put up a fight if the only place they can get food is from the government.

And you may think you are safe if you have your own land somewhere, but as long as we have property taxes it will only be a matter of time. They will just keep raising the rate till you can’t pay then they will take your land. Until property taxes are gone you are no better then a slave. They will make different classes for the taxes, if you are old and poor you can stay. Then the single mothers can stay. Then the poor will be able to stay. In the end you will be forced to join one of those groups and only have as much as the government says you can have. And until you get there instead of being praised for your hard work and discipline that kept you out of debt you will be called the rich that took advantage of everyone else. The privileged that don’t deserve what they have.

So ask yourself how many people do you think will stand up and fight, and how many do you think will just be happy the government took away their debt and gives them something to eat.

The government can’t equally spread opportunity, talent, or work ethics but they can get close to equally spreading misery.

[Cutter]

I didn't realize that there are that many people that feel the way I do. I am sick to death with the direction this country has taken and most of the time when I speak out I get accused of being anti-American or anti-military when just the opposite is true. This was a great country and we have let the politicians ruin it in the last 30yrs. How did we ever get to the place where good candidates are put down by their own party and the DNC and the RNC tell us who we will vote for. I think it's time to rid ourselves of both partys, make laws that force the media to tell the truth and not put their own spin to each story, and maybe hold politicians to what they promise. Maybe a few years in prison for lies and broken promises. We are too easy on elected officials, hold them accountable or lock them up. It's not too late. It's our country, we need to take it back.

[madmac]

Let me share a story. It has relation to what I see happening and why we can't change government or the direction we seem to be heading. Bare with me please. Many years ago I worked for a large company. They started out with pretty fair wages and grew very quickly. As time pasted they started cheating employees out of wages. Changed their pay scale and paid straight time for over time work. We the employees had a meeting at a disignated place and agreed to pick several speakers to sit down with management to talk and find a solution to the changes. I was to be part of this meeting with three other employees. Myself and one other employee showed for the meeting. After it was over the management called in every employee one by one to see if they had complaints. No one stood up to them. The Labor board was called, the books were audited and I recieved a check for over 12,000 dollars. After it was all over we were told to sign the checks over to the company. It was my last day working their but I left with my money. Out of 65 or so employees we were the only two to take action, stand up for our rights and we were the only two that had to find work elsewhere. That's the kind of reaction you can expect from hard working Americans if put up against a corrupt government such as ours. Fear of loss will strike most. Fear to stand up for what we know is right. I am not referring to anyone in particular, just people in general.

[walls0stone]

that is why I started my own company.. got sick of taking crap off people.

so who would you vote for cutter? Ron Paul?

still I see the new industry and the many many natural gas drilling going on here...pumping MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Dollars into our local econemy...

I must say I think somthing is in the wind and I don't worry so much.

[Cutter]

Yes RON PAUL will get my vote if I have to write it in. I can't in conscience vote for any of the others.

[walls0stone]

so what are we doing to get him noticed?

[Cutter]

Talk, I talk about him here and every place I go. No body that I work with knew anything about him till I started talking. Most everyone you talk to likes what he stands for and would vote for him if they thought he could win, the news keeps telling them he can't, so I tell them he will win if everyone that likes what he stands for will vote for him.
NEVER SAY DIE!

[walls0stone]

that's how I feel. But why not get more word out? know anyone at your local paper? E-mail forwards...take out a $12 add for his websight in the local dollar saver.

It takes more than two folks at a computer....but it can start that way

[logansackett]

make that 3 folks. Ron Paul is the 1st canadate in a long time to make any sense.

[walls0stone]

you bring up a point. Many do not know about men like R.P...
for example, in Pa, when Lyne Swan ran, educated men who had a busy day were of the impretion that Swan was a woman.

So some body come up with a smart,( not radical) forward and everyone on this sight send it to all the people in their add'y book. it's a step

[WRTN]

Let me share a story. It has relation to what I see happening and why we can't change government or the direction we seem to be heading. Bare with me please. *Many years ago I worked for a large company. They started out with pretty fair wages and grew very quickly. As time pasted they started cheating employees out of wages. Changed their pay scale and paid straight time for over time work. We the employees had a meeting at a disignated place and agreed to pick several speakers to sit down with management to talk and find a solution to the changes. I was to be part of this meeting with three other employees. Myself and one other employee showed for the meeting. After it was over the management called in every employee one by one to see if they had complaints. No one stood up to them. The Labor board was called, the books were audited and I recieved a check for over 12,000 dollars. After it was all over we were told to sign the checks over to the company. It was my last day working their but I left with my money. Out of 65 or so employees we were the only two to take action, stand up for our rights and we were the only two that had to find work elsewhere. That's the kind of reaction you can expect from hard working Americans if put up against a corrupt government such as ours. Fear of loss will strike most. Fear to stand up for what we know is right. I am not referring to anyone in particular, just people in general.

AMEN Brother! Don't you know it! Sad but VERY true.

[Drawbar]

Myself I don't see food as being a big issue really. The food prices are going up, but that is because the gas tank for the first time in history, is vying for the same acreage as food. Already that is going to change. A Maine Congresswoman has already co-sponsored a bill to stop that silly ethenol bill from expanding this year. That will take the fire out of the ethenol plants, drive down the cost of food and we can all get back to sanity as far as food prices go.

Now I say that because of one reason, and one reason only. My family has been farmers for generations upon generations, and one thing has been passed down a lot. And that idea is this: the main role of the USDA is to keep and maintain cheap food prices in this country. History is riddled with this fact, time and time again.

[walls0stone]

on top of the corn issue, you have other grain vs corn..oats, hopps, wheat...and why mess with cows when you can just grow corn. I think the Corn stoves also have somthing to do with it.

I'd like to see food prices high...at the stock yard.

[danville]

Another thing to look at is who owns our national debt. I read somewhere that China (Walmart) owns 1/3 of it. It is not who you blow but who you owe. How could we possibly cut off trade with the country that owns us? Seems like Saudi Arabia also owns a large portion of our debt. How do we cut off the people that own us? Are we setting ourselves up to be the next third world country?

[walls0stone]

in college we had a very intresting study were many countries had a dept with another. If all the markers would actualy be called, it would take 100 PHD's and a team of experts to do the math.

YOu say Walmart is China? did you know that Lowes and wally world are connected?

[danville]

Wallostone,
All it takes is one trip to both of them to see the connection.

[walls0stone]

be supprised how many don't know it

[logansackett]

I did not know, what about home depot?

[walls0stone]

I'm not aware of who is tied up with them. BUt Wall-mart picked up about 60% of the stock at one point. THis gives them more buy'n power. we have trided for 3 years to keep Lowes out of the area.

H-Clinton was on the Board of directors of wally world for a time.

[logansackett]

Thanks for the info, I do a lot of repair work and so buy a lot of supplies. Home depot from now on.

[Cutter]

I used to hate Home Depot, nobody that worked there seemed to know anything about anything. I guess I'll go back there anyway

[WRTN]

In my experience Lowes had MUCH better prices and selection of goods and materials not to mention folks who know their products. I was real disappointed with Home Depot.

[walls0stone]

I would not be cought dead in eather.
our local store is owned by a self made man who loves his town. He shares his welth and has hired me for work, as well as recamended me many times. He hires men who are tired of self employment or wish to work inside. His people are all former tradesmen and can tell you how to do somthing. They also know my family and when my wife goes in, she get's what I need.

If it costs a few bucks more I don't care becouse the man who owns the store will take very good care of his people and those men will take care of my intrests.

[logansackett]

I dont have that luxory here. Lowes or Home Depot thats it.