Should Atlas shrug?

[Wandrin1]

I imagine there will be folks lining up to say that this post belongs in the Politics board, or some other place, but I’m putting it here anyway.
I see some things in our nation that trigger a single line thought:
I see the news reports of illegal immigration supporters rallies, where the Birkenstock wearing crowd chants to convince us that these folks pouring over our borders NEED to be here, they DESERVE to be here because they are poor and oppressed in their home country so they should be supported by citizen taxpayers in that we will build new schools for their children to be taught in Spanish. We will pay higher medical costs so that they can access free medical care in the emergency rooms. After all, their need surpasses our rights to our own earnings. We will give up our good jobs so that they can work for ½ of what we did, because businesses NEED cheap labor.

I see the some presidential candidates push each other aside to get in front of a microphone and promise to do more to help the poor, to provide more gov’t. benefits to those in NEED in this country. The most egregious example of this is Obama cheering the judge who tossed out the Hazelton, Pa. town ordinance making it illegal to rent to “border felons” and promising to rescind the business license to folks that hire them. (duh!) He called the ruling dismissing that ordinance, which was the most common sense news I’d seen on immigration lately, a “victory for all Americans”. John Edwards makes photo op visits to Appalachia and New Orleans to see first hand the other America he assures us that he cares about.

I see unions of all types threaten the survival of the industries that have built America by demanding more benefits and better wages, in effect the NEEDS of their constituents surpass the ability of these industries to survive and compete in a global market dominated by Asian imports. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a local Freightliner plant voted in a union less than two years ago, and they’re shedding jobs like an October oak tree sheds leaves.

I see that the comptroller of the US discussing the Medicare prescription drug plan as a looming threat to our national budget, and yet presidential candidates all insist it doesn’t go nearly far enough. The elderly, after all, are without exception having to choose between the prescription drugs that we’re all sold relentlessly on tv, and buying food. They NEED the gov’t to provide them free cholesterol drugs, drugs to help with “restless leg syndrome” (??!!) and others to relieve depression, diarrhea, and to prevent hangnails.

I could go on and on, but I won’t. The single line thought triggered by all this?

“Who is John Galt?”

For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don’t, no explanation is possible.

[AccuCast]

You statement of ("For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don’t, no explanation is possible." ) may well be the epitaph of this nation.

The only thing about the placement of this post is that the entire population won't be able to read it.

I think the one line that has stuck with me for all these years is "A law abiding populace is of no value to Government".

Ayn Rand should be required reading for All.

[bookwormom]

quote:
After all, their need surpasses our rights to our own earnings.

sounds a lot like "to each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities" or something to that effect, by one of the communist patron saints, (can't remember which one).

[JAK]

I hate to break the news to you, but your hero Atlas is well beyond a mere shrug. He's an overweight couch potato that hasn't done an honest days work his entire life, and wouldn't know what real hardship and providence was if it bit him in the arse.

[Wandrin1]

<<I hate to break the news to you, but your hero Atlas is well beyond a mere shrug. He's an overweight couch potato that hasn't done an honest days work his entire life, and wouldn't know what real hardship and providence was if it bit him in the arse. >>

Ok, I admit it openly and without shame...I don't see your point. I guess if I try and follow your logic, "my hero" Atlas is the steelworker who builds the high rise bldg, the carpenter who frames house after house, the doctor who treats patients in the emergency room. Those are the people on whom the weight of our society rests. The largesse "the gov't" provides comes from his/her sweat. Your view of these folks as "overweight couch potatoes"; if indeed I understood you at all, seems to be a cynical product of too little time spent seeing first hand how things are produced, and too much time on the couch yourself. But maybe I misunderstood you. If I have, please accept my sincere apology. When the middle class in this country is eliminated or rendered helpless through out of control immigration and the fiscal decisions of the greedy bankers who package sub prime mortages into speculative derivative packages that even now are creating nail biting and heartburn in CFO circles everywhere in the world, then from whom will "the gov't" coerce the means to lure the ill-informed into the cheering section?
bookwormmom...you're absolutely right about that quote; in fact it is referred to in Atlas Shrugged. In some parts of the world that are far more "civilized" than our country; England e.g., the confiscatory rate at which the productivity of the working man is seized to provide for those who don't care to work at all would have made me drop my tools long ago. And I DO know what an honest day's work feels like.

[Rick]

John Galt didn't go to Colorado; he went to China.

I expect things will have to get a LOT worse before they get any better.

[JAK]

<<I hate to break the news to you, but your hero Atlas is well beyond a mere shrug. He's an overweight couch potato that hasn't done an honest days work his entire life, and wouldn't know what real hardship and providence was if it bit him in the arse. >>
*
* Ok, I admit it openly and without shame...I don't see your point. I guess if I try and follow your logic, "my hero" Atlas is the steelworker who builds the high rise bldg, the carpenter who frames house after house, the doctor who treats patients in the emergency room. Those are the people on whom the weight of our society rests. The largesse "the gov't" provides comes from his/her sweat. *Your view of these folks as "overweight couch potatoes"; if indeed I understood you at all, seems to be a cynical product of too little time spent seeing first hand how things are produced, and too much time on the couch yourself. But maybe I misunderstood you. *If I have, please accept my sincere apology. * *When the middle class in this country is eliminated or rendered helpless through out of control immigration and the fiscal decisions of the greedy bankers who package sub prime mortages into speculative derivative packages that even now are creating nail biting and heartburn in CFO circles everywhere in the world, then from whom will "the gov't" coerce the means to lure the ill-informed into the cheering section? *
*bookwormmom...you're absolutely right about that quote; in fact it is referred to in Atlas Shrugged. In some parts of the world that are far more "civilized" than our country; England e.g., the confiscatory rate at which the productivity of the working man is seized to provide for those who don't care to work at all would have made me drop my tools long ago. And I DO know what an honest day's work feels like.OK. I am generalizing of course, but so are you. Your myth neglects such details as "the gov't" not being the only direct source of such largesse. Perhaps you've covered this by placing "the gov't" in quotes, meaning anyone who acts with undeserved authority, unfairly and unjustly seizing the fruits of labour, ingenuity, and thrift. I'm sorry, but that could describe anyone in our society today, and similarly the honest and deserving labourer might be found in any walk of life, rich or poor, even in government. Sure, however fictious, Ayn Rands world once existed in American society, by and large, at least on a scale as close as one nation might get at some point and perhaps another in its history. No doubt America's greatest days will come again, but not today. Are there still some unsung heros? Absolutely, but they are fewer and farther between. But that's not my main point. My point is that most people that claim to recognize Ayn Rands unsung heroes don't get it. That is the nature of unsung heroes. They aren't recognized. They are the same as the victims/heros of Tolstoys day, and through all time. Ayn Rands world is just as essentially Russian as it is American, and it is older than both. It might just as well be describing an ancient Babylon, or the emergence of modern day China, but also their faults. There is nothing new under the sun.

"I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back."
- Tolstoy

“If you want to be happy, be.”
- Tolstoy

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
- Rand

"With capitalism man expoits man, but with communism,
its the other way around"
- modern russian proverb

The truth is, they are both right, and Ayn Rand on one hand, and you and Tolstoy on the other (your argument appears to be more in keeping with Tolstoy than Rand) they are both right, and they are both wrong. Some industrialists are heroes, but likely most are not. Some workers are heroes, but likely most are not. It is likely that most real heroes are unsung, relative to those raised by society to high esteem, but some heroes are recognized in their day. I say 'most likely', because how can the unrecognized be recognized. and how can we be certain when it is possible, even likely as you suggest, that we ourselves are amongst the ignorant.

Where I disagree most strongly with Rand, is that industrialists, as a class, do not have a corner on the virtue of being industrial. Where I disagree with most that seem to follow the modern Rand cult, more so than Rand herself, is that they don't seem to really value industriustness, and the true happiness that comes from that. They only seem to use it to justify the false happiness that comes from the material wealth, falsely concluding somehow that if they have gained wealth, they must naturally have achieved it somehow through some virtue, which must be industriustness, or whatever the word is. They are not like John Gault, they are more like John Gaults wife, who rejected his gift of real value, in favour of societies false values.

Most today seem to get it wrong, not just half wrong as Rand did, but totally wrong. You seem to have gotten it right, or at least the other half right, the Tolstoy side of the same Tolstoy/Rand coin, honouring the labourers as being more likely to be those having the true industriustness, rather than the industrialists. But as I've said, neither side is wholy right, and neither is wholy wrong. Both sides suffer the fault of being excessively classist, if thats a word. As in the days of feudalism, true nobility was not a virtue held only by nobles, or even most nobles, but was just as likely, perhaps even more likely, a quality held by the poor.

This leads to a final point. Industriustness is a great virtue, but not the only virtue. Some form of virtue is available to all of us, but always well hidden, and indistinguishable from some form of vanity, such that we never know with any certainty whether any virtue is real, be it in ourselves, or in another. Most certainly class, and nationality, are rather poor indications of virtue. That should be obvious. Who are those that are holding up American society and American values today? We might be surprised. Some, perhaps even many, might not even be American. Furthermore, the torch might already have been passed on.

Dogma only portends doom and damnation.
The real torch, the true torch, is held by many, and held by One.

[Wandrin1]

<<"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."
- Rand >>

This is the essence of my growing despair for our society today. First I have to admit my first impression of you was incorrect; I don’t participate in forum “debates” often because I see so many posters that want to toss off a cynical remark that contains no real thought and only marginally addresses the point and I guess I assumed your first post was another of that ilk. I apologize, I see and hear so many examples of folks who espouse a conviction ripped and read from the daily paper or website that resonates with their world view, and they seldom bother to reason their way through to a point of view that’s truly their own.
You’re right, probably very few industrialists are virtuous. By virtuous I mean that they pursue their goal of production for the joy of accomplishment, rather most today seek success for their ego’s sake. They have no respect and offer no dignity to the workers that allow that production, and in an ideal world according to Rand they would.
My topic “should Atlas shrug?” was to generate a thread of discussion around whether we as a society have reached a point when productive achievement is not only undesirable, but scorned. As the machine in Rand’s world broke down, the people were convinced by the press and by the “intellectuals” of the day that Man didn’t truly possess the ability to think, and that success was defined by meeting the needs of the sorriest among us regardless of the detrimental effect that had on productivity. As those folks who still were motivated to work and produce realized that their ability was a chain of slavery applied by the slothful ones who demanded that society supply their needs, they dropped their tools and disappeared. The parallel I was drawing in my post is that our culture is birthing that same environment today, when “need” is the ultimate currency. I still see that guy on tv in the question mark suit prancing around telling folks that his book will show them how to get “the gov’t” to pay them to start a business or write a book or pursue the silliest goal they can imagine, they just need to buy his book to find out how to ask. I don’t care how many people come to this country if they come to strengthen it, not destroy it. That’s not what’s happening though, if the statistics are correct that the average family of illegal immigrants will draw more money in government benefits than they contribute in taxes. I think I saved that report and can provide it if anyone doubts that’s the case. Our nation was built on a high regard for the effort of the individual in pursuit of happiness, when happiness was still based on achievement rather than on managing to get paid for doing nothing. As an example, I recently talked to a woman who told me that she was in the process of applying for disability for “back problems” brought on by years of sloth (I know her well enough to know this rather than guess it) and obesity, and if she failed to get disability her fallback plan was to get a job. At that point I lost the ability to hear anything else she said over the screams in my mind…LOL.

[Txanne]

Annie banging her head againest a brick wall.

The welfare who$%#@ of this country have been at work---getting ENTITLEMENTS for 50 yrs.

WE have had ample oppurntunity to stop them---we didnt--we didnt Have the time or the inclination to do it or deal with them.

Now throw in a little China involument--[[they will try to take tthis country with out ever firing a shot]] and they are suceeding.

So now we fight the great gulf of those that take and dont hit a lick at a stricking snake---and the flood of China products.


We are to blame for this terrible condition--we voted
for those that have given this country away---we allowed it too happen.

We are indeed cowards----we are as bad as those we accuse of taking from the coffers.


Suck it up and quitting griping about it---get another job pay more taxes---whats wrong with you whiners?


Txanne

[JAK]

Wandrin1,

First of all, thanks. Second, your first impression of my post was not all that incorrect. It was a knee jerk smart ass response rather than what should have been a better researched and more developed to begin with. I apologize for at. Third, thanks again. It's been years since I've read that damn book. I was a rather young engineer in the Canadian Navy and I didn't really get it. I'm going to have to go back and read the book again. It's been 25 years, and not the best 25 years of this past century. Should be a good read. Cheers.

[Wandrin1]

Wandrin1 slips up and places a pillow between the brick wall and Annie's head with a rueful smile, and a pat on her shoulder.

I've gotten way too cynical around the precept of voting for politicians. I voted for a compassionate conservative and got a donkey in an elephant's skin. Those of us that first assume somebody's being straight with us are so easily led down a path.
I had a friend in high school, back when we were all idealists, who followed Abbie and Jerry and he used to talk, with as much knowledge as a 17 year old can, about things like "participatory totalitarianism". I'm thinking these days...yup. All these politicians talk about how long they've "served this country". BS. None of them are in it for altruistic reasons...not a one. They're in it for ego and power, and that's why they work contrary to what we expect them from them because we assume common sense, and adherance to political party ideals. What in the world motivated them to try to pass that Immigration bill over the clamor of the population that votes? Money under the table...can't be anything else. How are we to be expected to anticipate where that money will come from?

I can't remember the text exactly, but d'Anconia asked Hank Reardon..."if you saw Atlas with blood running down his shoulders from the discomfort of his burden...what would you do" He answered his own question..."I'd tell him to shrug"

I hope there's enough spark of spirit left in the folks who bear this burden, that soon...not yet...the wounds are seeping but the blood has yet to flow...

One last depressing thought..LOL
I love the movie Red Dawn. I think it's a "semi" plausible plot, but the reference that's applicable is that the folks who resisted could all fit in the back of a pick-up truck, while the occupiers had to use a drive-in theater to fence in all the people who submitted. Don't you imagine that's how things would be..a handful of folks with enough pride to resist and a parking lot full of sheep?

[snuffy]

* I see that the comptroller of the US discussing the Medicare prescription drug plan as a looming threat to our national budget, and yet presidential candidates all insist it doesn’t go nearly far enough. The elderly, after all, are without exception having to choose between the prescription drugs that we’re all sold relentlessly on tv, and buying food. They NEED the gov’t to provide them free cholesterol *drugs, drugs to help with “restless leg syndrome” *(??!!) and others to relieve depression, diarrhea, and to prevent hangnails.

I could go on and on, but I won’t. The single line thought triggered by all this?

“Who is John Galt?”

For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don’t, no explanation is possible.




Wandrin1,
I need a bit of clarification about your statement concerning the elderly before I decide to respond or not. Are you lumping the elderly in with the illegal aliens, welfare trash, bums that won't work, etc.?

I am one of those with RLS, (which I take no meds. for)
and am wondering myself; are you slamming the media,
drug companies, or the elderly?
I am on disability soc. sec. and make too much for medicaid although I have not YET reached the point of choosing between medications or food(or ammo), I may soon be there. I would read your response with great interest.

Snuffy ???

p.s. I treat my own hangnails without medicine.

[Wandrin1]

Snuffy,
The point of my post is to question the habit of politicians to offer blank checks with no thought to the consequences to the folks paying the bill...whether we're talking about highway spending boondoggles, benefits given to folks who entered this country illegally and should have no rights to the dollars raked from the wallet of the working folks, or yes, the Medicare prescription drug benefits. It was written and signed into law with the straight faced assurances it would only cost so much, but as I said in the post, projections of the growth of the plan as it is will nearly bankrupt the budget in a few years. Does that mean I'm unsympathetic to the elderly? No, I'm just not sure it's the role of the government, nor do I believe the government ought to be in the retirement business. We've all seen the Social Security system described as a Ponzi scheme that a lot of accounting types are saying can't be sustained. The whole idea of thinking that somehow our government ( and our tax dollars) are responsible for answering every need that crops up is dangerous and unsustainable. If I want to start a business, what right do I have to expect my neighbors to subsidize it through government grants? If you say that "well, but it's old people". Yes, and while I sympathise that SOME elderly folks have a hard time paying for their prescriptions, my question is, where does it stop? To really put it in context, you'd need to be familiar with the book Atlas shrugged to understand that once the government assumes the role of ameliorating social needs, then everybody's NEED becomes the scale by whch we weigh the bucket of re-distributed wealth we hand them. I would gladly, and I'm 51, and have paid into SS for 36 years, give up my accummulated account if they would stop taking the money from me and allow me to invest it myself.
To try and elaborate briefly, lets say the drug benefit continues to grow, SS continues to grow, etc. and we continue as a nation to borrow money to pay those entitlements. At some point we reach a breaking point, and then what? Or do you think that wont happen? Our national debt is already funded to the tune of something like 4 billion PER DAY by foreign capital flowing into this country into Treasury bonds, etc. When the dollar falls, and those billions stop, where will the money for your prescriptions come from? You've already been conditioned to expect them to be paid for by the gov't. I'm just asking, why?

[WileyCoyote]

I think that this whole topic is moot.
We are so far beyond Atlas shrugging that no one would notice if he did... or worse, he would be deemed as a terrorist, a fanatic, an enemy of the State, and destroyed forthwith. The media would denigrate him, politicians would castigate him, and John Q. Public - who, no matter what he says, is 90% uneducated sheeple - would demand that Atlas be slaughtered so that he could get on with his daily life. And the government would willingly and aggressively and cheerfully agree to do so...

Most folks nowadays simply cannot conceive of NOT having government assistance to bail them out "if they need it". And more and more and increasingly, they "need" it. These are the folks who demand, "There oughtta be a LAW!" whenever someone does something of which they do not approve. These are the people who demand government investigations and protectionism whenever their lives are threatened... or even when their lives are slightly disadvantaged or out of kilter. These are people who are driven, in the main, by emotionalism and hysteria and self-righteousness; who, for example, don't want to grasp the intricacies of finance and accept the responsibility of their own choices, but who demand that the Federal Reserve or government loans, grants, and strictures bail them out of their recent poor investment strategies.

[Txanne]

Wandrin,

I have paid taxes for 51 years so that I might have that little cushion to live on.

I dont ask for one dime--more than I paid in.

Social security was a lie from the get-go!!

It was formatted as a great thing for the people---all the while is was used to finance a WAR!!


See how long we have been swallowing the LIES??

Any slam at the hard working old folks--kinda gets under our [[mine]] skin.

If you live long enough---you'll get old too.

And btw---not all of us get old --in a healthy state.

And yes--there are scum that play the system---and they should be ferretted out--but then that is a dangerous suggestion----the innocent disabled could be targetted----who will decide WHO is deserving off benefits?

I have been blessed with fairly good health in my twlight years---But hell that could change with a stroke or a heart attack--or cancer etc etc.

We have let a monster be birthed and have fed it faithfully for years.

How do we kill the monster and remain intact as a Nation?

Txanne

[bigjack]

Wandrin,

We have let a monster be birthed and have fed it faithfully for years.

How do we kill the monster and remain intact as a Nation?

Txanne



"America where are you now? Don't you care about your sons and daughters? Don't you know we need you now? We can't fight alone against the monster."-Steppenwolf

[Txanne]

"America where are you now? Don't you care about your sons and daughters? Don't you know we need you now? We can't fight alone against the monster."-Steppenwolf



BigJack---ya breaking my heart.
Good to see you old friend.

We must make people understand,that the hand that reaches out to help[[for our own good of course]] is also grabbing you by the throat.

And NO---we cant fight alone--we are out gunned---few in numbers and surrounded by pascifity.

Nobody cares--but the few---

Indeed---who'll fight the monster??

annie

[Harry_Chickpea]

Snuffy,
*<snipped>

Yes, and while I sympathise that SOME elderly folks have a hard time paying for their prescriptions, my question is, where does it stop? *To really put it in context, you'd need to be familiar with the book Atlas shrugged to understand that once the government assumes the role of ameliorating social needs, then everybody's NEED becomes the scale by whch we weigh the bucket of re-distributed wealth we hand them. I would gladly, and I'm 51, and have paid into SS for 36 years, give up my accummulated account if they would stop taking the money from me and allow me to invest it myself. *
* To try and elaborate briefly, lets say the drug benefit continues to grow, SS continues to grow, etc. and we continue as a nation to borrow money to pay those entitlements. At some point we reach a breaking point, and then what? Or do you think that wont happen? Our national debt is already funded to the tune of something like 4 billion PER DAY by foreign capital flowing into this country into Treasury bonds, etc. When the dollar falls, and those billions stop, where will the money for your prescriptions come from? You've already been conditioned to expect them to be paid for by the gov't. I'm just asking, why?

Whoa. There are so many issues involved here that it is almost impossible to untangle the threads and discover the real warp and woof.

First, Ayn Rand was a romantic novelist and not a philospher of any repute. Watch the movie "Queen Christiana" sometime and see how much she ripped off from better directors and authors. Her personal life was a farce of her purported morality, to the point that simply asking someone to read a biography of her before judging her work becomes an ad-hom attack.

The "philosophy" she espouses is not based on logic, but is a simplistic system of thought that denies that people can have multiple or conflicting motives in their actions. That can work great in a romance novel, but doesn't in real life.

Second, the focus on governmental benefits to individuals ignores the elephant in the room, that the our fed, state, and local governments provide more welfare to corporations than to even the most impoverished individuals.

I'll provide an example. Any state or area that wants to encourage businesses into their area now offers "incentives" such as tax breaks or ammenities. I was stunned to recently discover that an area in northwest Alabama has a tax on gasoline for a specific purpose. That purpose? To build and maintain a world class golf course. I wish I was making this up, but every working stiff in that area who drives a car is paying for a golf course that will supposedly help bring industry into the area. Even worse, it seems to have worked, as a railcar manufacturer has decided to build in the area, in part because of that mindest of the local government, and in part because of huge tax breaks. The working citizens are thus saddled with paying for the government and infrastructure upgrades, rather than those costs being reasonably shared by the industries.

About that assistance on drug costs... You write as though you believe that drug marketing is a free market economy. It is not. Drug companies, stock market forces, and lawyers have all contributed to a monopoly where drugs from Canada and Mexico and India were so much less expensive than drugs purchased in the U.S. that a large portion of the senior population, a group literally just trying to survive, was voting with their feet, and risking arrest for their actions of buying "illegal" out of country drugs.

A drug "benefit" by the government? I think not. The bulk of these drugs are artificially overpriced, and the "benefit" is more accurately a subsidy to the drug companies, one that allows them to keep the inflated prices to those who work, by quieting the cries from seniors. Who wins? A government that wants more control, and drug companies that want more control and money.

Are there problems with individuals sucking at the teat of government to the detriment of society? You bet. Just don't think by any stretch that they are the biggest issues.

BTW, If you want to get an unvarnished counterpoint to John Galt and learn how railroads were really built, read any of a number of historical books on the building of the transcontinental railroad. There is one in particular "Empire Express" that is so detailed in the backroom deals and graft, that it becomes a difficult book to stomach and continue to read without thinking that our early congressmen were an even bigger set of crooks than the ones in place now. Read it, and you'll put Atlas Shrugged in the literary spot that it belongs - sappy romantic fiction.

[aimeenm]

"Where I disagree most strongly with Rand, is that industrialists, as a class, do not have a corner on the virtue of being industrial. Where I disagree with most that seem to follow the modern Rand cult, more so than Rand herself, is that they don't seem to really value industriustness, and the true happiness that comes from that."

Nothing makes me much happier than working in my undustry (transportation) and I feel happy and alive (like Dagny Taggart) when I'm on a truck yard. It is about the individuals that are undustrious...we are out here.

Which brings us back to self reliance. Everytime some "industrious" person chooses to work toward taking care of themselves and not contributing to the growing industrial conglomerate or staying in a world of corruption, then isn't that Atlas Shrugging in the simplest form? As John Galt and Hank and Franciso all did.

[ol_hoot]

Maybe old Tim Leary had something with that tune in, turn on and drop out stuff.

I don't imagine I'll be dropping out.
I figure they might drop me one day.

Atlas Shrugged was a good book.
It would be nice to be able to drop out.
To just go away until everything was over but I reckon I'll be sticking around pretty close.

I've got a little place here in town where I live and a big place about 10 miles south where I can also live if I need to.
It ain't mine but I got rights to it and it's got a big iron gate with a lock on it and I've got a key.
A few big pines dropped across the road and I've got privacy

[Dixie]

Atlas probably should shrug, but it's not his nature to shrug. John Galt shrugged and dropped out, went to the pursuit of making the perfect hamburger. From what I have read about Ayn Rand's personal habits and character, if true, she is not all that much of a leader to emulate. Selfishness seemed to be her clarion call, and there is more to life than selfishness.

If it gets bad enough for Atlas to have to shrug, there'll be no Greatest Generation to rise to the task, to shoulder the burden, and the task has always been worthy of rising to, the burden has always, so far, been worthy of shouldering.

If the voting public keeps putting in office the politicians who promise them largesse from the public coffers for free as well as taking largesse from public funds for themselves, Atlas will know if or when it is time to shrug, and Atlas is, I think, rather taciturn generally.

[Wandrin1]

Haven't stopped in for awhile and was surprised this thread was still fairly current. Skimmed a few posts and thought..."My, don't we all get off on a tangent from time to time?"
My original post was in the sense of...is it coming to a point when the folks who do the work, who produce the goods that drive the engine of our economy, will tire of the people who suck the cream off the top? The folks who refuse to contribute but regard the fruits of work to be something they "deserve". But the replies I read indicated folks failed to boil it down, we are told that Ayn Rand was this or that (who gives a hoot what her personal life was like, it's a dang STORY fer cryin' out loud?) and how the railroads were "really built". What that has to do with people of good work ethic who shoulder the burden for the worthless ...i.e. the "Atlas" of our society getting disillusioned enough to just quit, I don't know. It was just a rhetorical question anyhoo...the treadmill's going too fast to jump off as it is.

[333]

Peace,

I thought it was an excellent question about the fruits of ones own labor and creativity, the whole Marxist philosophy, of privacy and private property being remanded to the state or stifled due to state interference. Its been a while since I read it but a hard one to forget.

It is obvious our nation has digressed into such a similar state the mention of this book is way more than relevant. He will have no need to shrug as he will be eaten from the inside out by all the parasites in his body and collapse.

John Galt is the first one there to help him up ;D ;D ;D

Thanks

333