WHY WARS ON POVERTY, SIN & WAR ITSELF?

[alma]

As far as i can see, the War on Poverty is a disaster, the War on Sin is a lost cause, and the War on War is a vain pursuit.

--but wait, all is not lost.

Those who administer the programs must have buildings to contain them, and that provides lots of jobs for all the people who build and maintain them..

They must be stocked with computers, paper, air conditioning, desks, water coolers, and all the other accoutriments that the social workers and the ministers, and the generals must have in order to do their jobs.

--and, then, these folks must have cars to get from one place to another, and the proper clothes and unifoms to wear, and telephones, and cell phones and t.v.s and
must pay their rent, and send their kids to college, and furnish their houses, and on and on.

They must buy all these things, and food, etc. and drinks, and be entertained in the syyle to which they have become accustomed, etc..

--and all these things give many other people jobs to do the same.

The more programs, the more jobs to go around for everyone.

If we didn't have all these "welfare bums" and all these wicked sinners, and could not find a "terrorist" under every bed (as we once looked for "communists" the same), no one would have a job, and the whole economy would go belly up.

--so let's be grateful for all these loosers.

What would we ever do without them.

What would become of us all if ANY of these wars were WON! love, alma

[Txanne]

BUT----it takes my tax dollars to run them---build them and I am sick of my TAX DOLLARS being spent that way.


I dont want to build any more welfare buildings---!!

What say we take all the military buildings on those bases slick Willie closed and turn them into welfare hostels---confine them to one area??

I can gurantee ya--if Americans could keep more of their money instead of having to support every ner'do-well that comes along--there would be new business opening---

And these sappers that have these jobs would have to get REAL jobs like the rest of us.

Water seeks its own level---The sin of welfare can be stopped---Stealing from me and other Americans to support baby making---doped up bodies---drunks and sundry others excuses is a Big sin. Its called robbery---theft---and a whole list of other names.


A post from a true liberal--post and pre-Kennedy days.


I am not buying it for a minute.

Txanne

[nancy1340]

Annie, don't you know your view isn't politically correct? Shame on you. ::)



Alma has a good heart but.......................she can afford to pay for it.. ;).............no wait, she can't. She might want to move to Cuba. After all they have a bunch of empty homes.

Isn't it something that those who can't afford to support themselves want the rest of us to. I didn't graduate from high school but have never taken one dollar of goberment support.

[alma]

Now, let's hear a few solutions to our many national and international problems.

We are ALL in the same boat at one time or another.

Does your mom and dad receive social security, or do you all take care of them when they are over the hill?

What shall we do about the causes of so many of these negative and costly effects.

What about poverty, and sin and war. What do you do, personally, in your own small way to make or break the cycle.

Is not the terror of cancer of concern to you, or other such things, like altzeimers, and any number of other sicknesses that can be visited upon even those off you who seem to think you are invunerable to the ravages of age?

--and drugs, and the breaking up of families, and the immorality on t.v. and elsewhere that lure young people into a life style that causes them to be infected with disease, and unwanted pregnancies and abortions.

--and the outsourcing of american jobs abroad by corporations that profit from the cheaper labor, and the invasion of illegal aliens into this country to bring down the american standard of living by cheap labor that the bosses love.

Why are millions of our children''s toys being manu-
actured in "communist" china, and our pet food and tooth past, etc. etc. etc.

Why do we import so much food from farmers abroad that are often not produced nor inspected to meet american standards?

Let's hear some diverse answers to these and so many other problems that beset us ALL.

Things were different in my time. A young couple could have a baby for 50 dollars and 2 weeks in the hospital and 9 months of excellent medical care preceeding the birth for another 50 dollars, and mothers could stay home to care for the children they produced, and it was an honorable position, and one to be desired once.

What has happened to bring about such changes that make mothers and grandmothers social pariahs these days. Gotta go. love, alma

[nancy1340]

Does your mom and dad receive social security, or do you all take care of them when they are over the hill?



SS has nothing to do with aid. It's something we working stiffs have already paid into (think savings account) and leaches have robbed.

What many folks forget is that SS was SUPPOSE to be a SUPPLEMENT not a full living expense. You were supposed to have put away additional money and SS was suppose to SUPPLEMENT it. It was never meant to fully support you or me in your or my old age.

[flatwater]

When I worked for the sheriffs department I was trained in negotiations and troubleshooting and problem solving. If I didn't learn anything else, I learned that Those in control usually treat the symptom and not the real problem and most people would rather gripe about a problem then actively work on fixing it.
Flatwater

[Txanne]

Txanne---banging her head againest a liberal brick wall!!

I dont owe anyone::
A place to live:
A new car:
All the food they want/wherther they need it or not:
I dont owe anyone medically care:Especially the obese of the welfare hords.
I dont owe your kid a college education:
I dont owe you medicines:
I dont owe you an apolize for my beliefs:

That said: I know Bad bad things happen to great people:
For instance our soldiers---yet they receive less pay than a kid working at Jocko in the boxo---its a national disgrace that they receive less pay than welfare who$%#& do in food stamps--unless of course they have climbed the ranks.

Raise their PAY scale and stand behind them--for a change.

Give all welfare suckers 3 months to figure out how they will manage ---without my tax dollar.

Their ARE those that have terrible illnesses---through no fault of their own.
They need help--they ARE helpless.

I do believe that many that are classified by Social Security as disabled---would quickly get well--cause the Drs wouldnt be receiving MY tax dollars anymore to kept them pilled up. Cut off the medicad money and I bet ya I am right.

Cut off the illegal from the hospitals---social entitlements
and let them have their babies in the fields like they do when their at home---IN MEXICO!! or by mid-wife.

We have at least 12 millon[[I suspect upwards of 20 millon that receive ENTITLEMENTS from my pocket--They havent earned.
Cut them off period.

I am not going to speak to other ethnic groups--just white ones----Get off my back--i am tired of dragging you through life--for free--i have worked for 50 years--I am tired of you and your whining--not enough BS---

You did not get up at the crack of dawn to break your back feeding my kids[[I did ]]

You didnt work 2 jobs to see to my kids [[[I did]]

When was the last time I came over to your house and said---share your food stamps with me---I am hungary??

Never----you see your free medical---entitlements and all the bonuses---came out of MY pocket and millons of other Americans---and dammit I am tired of it---and they should be also---No I am disgusted by a white race that would sink to this level---draining us to the point of no return----Maybe we should return to a time when a man that wouldnt feed his family was tarred and feathered.


This poor whining--meism is about to grind on the nerves of all Americans who have become slaves to a Nation of takers.

How do we fix the system??

WE STOP DOING IT ---PERIOD!!

Txanne--politically in/uncorrect

[alma]

Stop paying those who administer these programs, and watch the fallout.
They don't take your money to disperse for political and economic advantage for nothing.
There's gold in them thar hills, ya know.
You're right, annie, about our soldiers.
The least our country could is pay for college for the children of fallen men, among other things. love, alma

[Txanne]

Stop paying those who administer these programs, and watch the fallout.
They don't take your money to disperse for political and economic advantage for nothing.
There's gold in them thar hills, ya know.
You're right, annie, about our soldiers.
The least our country could is pay for college for the children of fallen men, among other things. love, alma



Alma--for the 3rd time in 4 years we agree:

The way our military is treated is a National Disgrace.

They follow orders---they go where they are sent--wherther is be peace time or war time.

When my SIL was in the army--his separate rats were taken out of his menger check---that left my Daughter and grand-daughter never knowing how much his check would be---

He served honorable---for 8 years----


We expect our military to protect us againest all enemies--and they can barely feed their families.

The pay scale is disgusting---while at home--the hordes that draw welfare---and wouldnt slap a snake if it was biting them---draw enormous amounts of entitlements.


Txanne

[alma]

Hi, Annie.
My hubby served in wwii as radio man in anti sub air patrol, was injured with shrapnell in his lower back at one point,and suffered for years, got the purple heart, and a thank you sir, but got to go to college.
He took up fine art, of all the impractical things, but that did help a lot, none the less, and sue sure learned a lot that she uses today.
He goes to vet administration and they do care or him reasonably well, and pays for part of his meds, and that sure helps a lot too, but hey, he has gone through a lot and is still here.
We'll be married 64 years in october.
I can hardly believe time has gone so fast. love, alma

[DaNgEr_KiTtY]

holy crap we finally have the answer.....more social programs will fix everything! lol!

alma you are definitely a unique fusion of ideologies. i often feel that you personally are not happy in your life & believe that if george bush wasnt fighting radical islamic freaks that wish to kill you, your hubby & all your children & so on then somehow you would have everything you wished for. you have this theory that if we didn't spend the money we have on the iraq war then all of that could be used to save all the poor people.

i get a kick outta things like the war on poverty. i hear that we need more programs as you suggest to help fix this issue. people like you would probably agree that we need things like job training programs for the unemployed. i thought that a good education in our public schools was all you needed to get into any kind of trade.

even with all the money we throw at public education i always hear that we need to spend more because we still dont have the results we need. it blows my mind that kids today get a high school diploma yet still cant do simple addition & subtraction or speak english properly. maybe i was gifted or something because i learned how to spell by 3rd grade & understood both addition & subtraction & those other crazy mathematical demons of multiplication & division. & sad to say i grew up poor too & somehow was so lucky to have learned these things.

i would have thought that a person from your generation would expect people to take a lil personal responsibility for themselves. i feel that our country should help out those such as your husband who was wounded during wartime but not just give handouts to those who do not choose to make themselves better. i mean think about how things are at mcdonalds. i can guarantee that if i bought a #1 combo meal & an apple pie that cost $6.21 & pulled out a 20 dollar bill they would punch in 20 bucks as payment. but no i am not finished....i give them $21.21 & then their brain will shut down & they cant figure the change. but i will guarantee that these people at mc'ds think the same way you do. they deserve to be helped out with free money from the government.....which is really my money.

you marched for civil rights in the 60's & were tossed in jail for doing something you werent supposed to do or something. do you not believe that all of the people in the world should have civil rights & freedom or just the folks that you choose? did you ever march against your country in WW2? did you ask your country then to spend that money on the poor? did you not trust your president then? i doubt it.

nuff said

[nancy1340]

Your spot on Kitty. ;)

[ol_hoot]

This poor whining--meism is about to grind on the nerves of all Americans who have become slaves to a Nation of takers.
How do we fix the system??
WE STOP DOING IT ---PERIOD!!


That oughta be on a bumper sticker !

[ol_hoot]

have to be a big one

[ol_hoot]

Really though it's been grinding on peoples nerves for a while now.
Maybe it is just getting to be enough people po'd about it all that something will get changed.
Sure needs to be.

[dinosaur]

The problem is that for everyone one of us that thinks we should stop giving handouts , there is another one that says they need it and its alright. I think they should leave it up to us .
Do you want social security and medicare to come out of your check? If no please check here

If yes check here
By the way if you checked yes then you probably are on some type of government support already and we don't want your input ;D

[alma]

I don't think you all get it.
It was meant to be a satire.

The War on Drugs, the War on Sin, and the War on War are all disasters. Why would i want another one
of their futile "Wars".

We paid into social security all of our lives, too.

We had our own sign business for over 30 years, and did gold leaf for the navy dept. the Coast Guard, and other govt. building in D.C. when we lived in that area.

Sue did a lot of work for the U.S. Parks Dept., and was sent to Alaska once to do a special sign job there for them, with my grandson who was part of the business.

She did sign art work for the permanent collection at Smithsonian Institute, and for the Theodore Roosevelt museum, etc.

I worked in a private school for a few years, but mostly worked from my home running a small preschool, and baby sitting in other people"s homes, so we could buy a piece of land to build our little cabin on, all by ourselves.

Sue and I put on the cedar shake roof.

I took care of my first husband for a long time until he died of hodgskin's disease, going with him for treatments at the hospital one day a week and went to shriner's hospital with my child born with club feet.

He had casts on both legs from the time he was 4 months old, and off and on with operations, etc. for years.

I went to wortk and mom took care of my baby who was around two when his father died, and i worked for the civil service comminion awhile in D. C. leaving him in springield mass, then came home to work for the army air force depot in mass. for another few months, but my being a secretary and telphone operator almost lost us the war, lol

I guess that i was not cut out to be a career woman, so worked with kids most of my life, even before i met and married bill, and travelled with him from one army base to another, and took care of kids in my home most of the time.

There are so many jobs i've had me my time, was a waitress now and then to make ends meet also, but always chose to work from home and take care of my own kid.

My sister was so impressed with my little preschool at home that she started her own private school and had it for 30 years, and a plaque was put in a local park for her when she died.

Excuse me for telling you this again, but I have been on this forum since before y2k and thought i had said it enough times, but maybe some of the newbies may have missed my many tales over the years.

--and i ain't told you nothin yet. love, alma

[alma]

During the vietnam war, for a few months, i took care of my mom and brother who were dying of cancer so my sister who had been caring for them could get a break.

Her sons were going to be home for their last xmas together before they went into the war.

One was with naval intelligence, the other two were on the enterprise. One was too young.

My brother had cancer of the jaw and tongue and died before my mom.

Mom lasted for another year, and my sister cared for her again after her boys were gone, and i went home.

I baby sat for my brother's girl off and on for a long time. I spanked her butt more than once. She went on to work high in the patriot missle program and retired to raethon i believe.

We met a couple of months ago to have dinner together with sue and her hubby and mine.

Another kid i cared for became a well known doctor in nashville. Sue and I taught her how to read for the most part.

These are just a few i can think of at the moment.

So, you see, i paid my dues in many different ways, and now, at 85 i am still helping all i can.

I do everyone's laundry and our own, and print up info for people about wild foods and meds and a lot of other things.

I taught a kid about radio in the old days and he went on to become involved in some kind of electronic work, and my grandson the same.

Chris used to go all around the world setting up computer gear for hospitals.

Life has been very varied and interesting to me for the most part, but i sure don't like all the sickness that has kept us broke so many times..

I had cancer around 40 years ago, and again two years ago, and my two brother were taken out in their 50s with cancer. It is rampant in our family. I sure hope it doesn't come back, but am sweating it out.

Two yeas ago, just before the cancer operation, i had to hae a hip replacement, and that was the worst of all.

About 10 years ago i had my aortic heart replaced with some cow part, and a gall bladder operation just about the same time.

Now, if you think this has all been fun, think again.

The docs all say what a wonderful spirit i have, and i know that this is true, so don't go telling me i am unhappy, because i am NOT.

I have a lot of fun and keep busy sewing and experimenting with solar stuff and embroidering and garage sales, etc., etc. etc..

I teach everyone evrything i get a chance, and write booklettes on lots and lots of interesting stuff, and i love myself. love, alma

[333]

Peace,

When I worked for the sheriffs department I was trained in negotiations and troubleshooting and problem solving. If I didn't learn anything else, I learned that Those in control usually treat the symptom and not the real problem and most people would rather gripe about a problem then actively work on fixing it.
Flatwater


That's called job security ;)


Alma ;D

333

[Txanne]

Dk--I have always had the feeling it was a one way street with our Alma.


Our soldiers have died to gurantee your right to be the liberal you are----generations of them matter of fact.


Hoot---I got a big bumper---- ;D


Txanne

[jim]

When are you bonehead liberals gonna learn that tax dollars spent on supporting our bloated government is a drag on the economy, NOT a boon to it!!! Get a grip morons, money taken from it's producers subrtacts from the economy by taking it out of circulation where it will be multiplied into more money thru invenstment, and gives it to NON PRODUCERS that use it for dead end spending. Fools!

jim

[danville]

ALMA,
It seems this thread has gone off topic, as is stated in the subject line. I will now join this forray. Who here has not benefited from federal dollars- our tax payer dollars? We all have. We have roads to drive on, food to eat and medicines for our illnesses. Our VOLUNTARY military protection, school lunches, federal student loans? You see, our tax dollars are spent on "social programs" that few are willing to admit they receive some benefit of. Why can we all drive on a PUBLIC highway, pay the prices we pay for lots of food products, take the medicines we do, have the healthcare system we have, free eduation to the 12th grade, and have an active military to protect you and I? Tax dollars. Do not say you are not reaping some benefit. We all are. I do not know the numbers but do feel for certain that the vast majority of the taxes we pay are not spent on " the do less" of our society. Should we be able to pick and choose where our tax dollars go? What do you think? I, for one, would like to know that children are not starving in my country, that all people have access to healthcare and a roof over their heads and we are not killing innocent people in order to save them. When we do better, we all do better. Don't think for a minute that your life has not been ""subsidized". Have you ever been a part of any of the above? If you are reading this then you are receiving a benefit. Yes, sometimes I look at my paycheck and wonder where all those tax dollars go and what my life would be like without the big deduction. Then I get in my car, drive on a well maitained road to the grocery store and doctor, then to work and have electricity to read by and to use this computer. Yes, I have it better than most of the people in this world. Why? My tax dollars are paying for all of it. If I can retire at 67 and draw social security until the end of my average life expectancy, I will still not have payed for all that I have received.

[Txanne]

When I buy tags for my truck--I pay for my share of the road and bridges--no social program involved.


Sure--the gooberment blackmails us into [[them sending us some of OUR tax dollars]] for roads and bridges.

Here in Texas its the speed limit---they [[gooberment]]dictates our speed limits----smog testing on cars/trucks,
comply---you get more of your own dollars for roads and bridges-no compliance--you get nada---and the gas tax?? dont forget that---big rigs here in Texas PAY out the nose for the priviledge--so this analogy doesnt wash with me.

The roads and bridges you speak of--are not government entitlement programs----They came out of my pocket--and you can bet your sweet bippy--the entitlement hords--dont pay into that system---we do and they ue these roads to head to the food stamp office---- ;D


next?


The War on proverty? What we're doing aint worked in 40 years.

War on drugs?

A little game that has back-fired on the law dogs.

And the war on sin?

sin in your eyes may not be in my eyes.

Stealing from the working john Q is a sin---wherhter it finances a war---feeds lazy fools or promots invasion by cops into our private adult lives.

Txanne

[nancy1340]

Don't forget taxes on gass and desel for your autos. A HUGE amount if it is nothing but taxes that is suppose to pay for roads. Taxes are not "free" money raining down from the sky. WE pay it.

[alma]

--and don't forget the billions and billions of dollars given to all kinds of companies to subsidize their endeavors.

--and don't forget the imperialist wars that cost more than everything else put together.

--essentially, rich men's wars fought by poor men's sons.

If the warmakers think a war is essential, let them donate their arms at cost, and let the moms and dads get paid at least for the years and years it cost them to bear and rear the sons they donate to the cause.

Remember eisenhower's warning us to watch out for the military-industrial complex.

Let the generals work at minimum wage. Why should we pay or their whiskey and all their other entertainments and perks?

It used to be in the 60s that 80% of our tax dollars since the turn of the centruy went on interest on war debts, and god only knows who we borrowed the money from, *and what collateral has been put of for those loans. It might even be US!
Why no complaints on how much we are willing to spend on killing and maiming around the world at the expense of our own people's health, not counting the soldiers who give their lives and health to a very unclear and very unpresent and very unreal danger, and yet so much horrible, demeaning, self righteous comments about our own citizens in genuine need.

Some of you can sure throw those negative adjectives around that would sink a ship, let alone someone trying to get their head above water without being shot down with the bullying they get on this orum and elsewhere.

I think you have all made your point about how much you hate the poor amidst us.

I do not like the useless rogues among us, those who would beg, borrow and steal our whole country if they could, whether they be rich OR poor.

--but, this better-than-thou simplistic comments about some very real, and very clear, and very present *problems that beset us all, and that are causing the ship to go down is a collective thing, a problem for the unrighteous as well as the righteous among us.

One begets the other.

Let's try to think about some of the causes of these effects. We are all in the same boat. --and arrogance is equally dangerous to us all, both at home and abroad.

The bible says that "our righteousness is as filthy rags", and when did a filthy rag ever get anything clean.
love, alma

[nancy1340]

Alma while I know you have a good heart you are the most gullible, naive person I have ever known.

[Txanne]

--and don't forget the billions and billions of dollars given to all kinds of companies to subsidize their endeavors.

--and don't forget the imperialist wars that cost more than everything else put together.

--essentially, rich men's wars fought by poor men's sons.

If the warmakers think a war is essential, let them donate their arms at cost, and let the moms and dads get paid at least for the years and years it cost them to bear and rear the sons they donate to the cause.

Remember eisenhower's warning us to watch out for the military-industrial complex.

Let the generals work at minimum wage. Why should we pay or their whiskey and all their other entertainments and perks?

It used to be in the 60s that 80% of our tax dollars since the turn of the centruy went on interest on war debts, and god only knows who we borrowed the money from, *and what collateral has been put of for those loans. It might even be US!
Why no complaints on how much we are willing to spend on killing and maiming around the world at the expense of our own people's health, not counting the soldiers who give their lives and health to a very unclear and very unpresent and very unreal danger, and yet so much horrible, demeaning, self righteous comments about our own citizens in genuine need.

Some of you can sure throw those negative adjectives around that would sink a ship, let alone someone trying to get their head above water without being shot down with the bullying they get on this orum and elsewhere.

I think you have all made your point about how much you hate the poor amidst us.

I do not like the useless rogues among us, those who would beg, borrow and steal our whole country if they could, whether they be rich OR poor.

--but, this better-than-thou simplistic comments about some very real, and very clear, and very present *problems that beset us all, and that are causing the ship to go down is a collective thing, a problem for the unrighteous as well as the righteous among us.

One begets the other.

Let's try to think about some of the causes of these effects. We are all in the same boat. --and arrogance is equally dangerous to us all, both at home and abroad.

The bible says that "our righteousness is as filthy rags", and when did a filthy rag ever get anything clean.
love, alma



Oh for the love of God---Now I have heard it all.


I cant use the ADJECTIVES I'd like too-------nor the Verbs.


Imperalists my behind.
Thats what we called Japan once upon a time---


You just want an agreeing opinion----you are quite the verbous one dear.

And I cant talk without using adjectives nor verbs-- ;D


Txanne----needs aspirin

[chloe3388]

Txanne, please send me an aspirin too. I have read what Alma wrote 3 times and still don't have any idea what she wants.

[nancy1340]

Txanne, please send me an aspirin too. I have read what Alma wrote 3 times and still don't have any idea what she wants.


ROTFLMAO

Neither does Our Alma. ;)

[exodus]

Here we go again. And again. And again. That evil working middle class complaining about their taxes helping the more mother of 8 illegitimate children. She can't help it. We need to understand her need to stay home and care for her children. It doesn't matter that the middle class mother has to work and can't stay home with her 2 children (she can't afford eight). Pure unadulterated hogwash!

Maybe the reason the companies have outsourced their factories is that the labor unions had become unreasonable. Yes, those nasty companies want to make a profit. That is the most unforgivable sin by liberal standards...that is except for all those movie stars who rake in millions for showing their bare a$$es and using foul language.

I could rant on and on but you all, well at leave most all of you get the picture.

Exodus

[bookwormom]

to insinuate that corporations were not making a profit in this country and therefore had to move their operations overseas where it is cheaper,( and that it is the workers fault, why do they have to be so greedy) just is not factual. The same problem exists in Europe and the wages and social benefits are higher there. Every so often the annual profits of certain companies were published. I remember well when Rodenstock, a manufactorer of glasses decided to move out as there was quite an uproar in the small town where people's jobs depended on it. No, those companies are not in the red and just can not make it here. I don't know, but maybe one started and increased his profit margin and all the others got greedy, sounds like human nature. Heaven knows what is behind it though, considering the effect it has on the middle class of Western Nations and the effect it will have on the Nation once the SHTF. Interesting to make a whole Nation dependent on goods manufactored in China.

[jim]

Mega Dittos Texanne, Nancy, Chloe, and others. I get nothing that I haven't already paid for, and anybody thinks otherwise is a willful idiot!

jim

[DaNgEr_KiTtY]

i been through plenty of hard times & never felt the need to mention it here nor stick my hand out. alma i think from your posts in the past it was not possible for most of us to get your joke. you always wind up saying something like "if we werent wasting all this money on the war we could use it to help the poor" or something along those lines.

anyway i have been doing some gold leaf myself & kinda self taught. i hope maybe one day you & me can have a conversation about that & leave out politics cause we will never see eye to eye. maybe your hubster can give me some pointers. i myself always go outta my way to help folks too.

[Txanne]

Here we go again. And again. And again. *That evil working middle class complaining about their taxes helping the more mother of 8 illegitimate children. *She can't help it. *We need to understand her need to stay home and care for her children. *It doesn't matter that the middle class mother has to work and can't stay home with her 2 children (she can't afford eight). Pure unadulterated hogwash!

Maybe the reason the companies have outsourced their factories is that the labor unions had become unreasonable. *Yes, those nasty companies want to make a profit. *That is the most unforgivable sin *by liberal standards...that is except for all those movie stars who rake in millions for showing their bare a$$es and using foul language. *

I could rant on and on but you all, well at leave most all of you get the picture. *

Exodus



All togather now---Amen!!

Txanne