"Oh Lord, if you can't make me skinny..."

[bugscufle]

If people keep gaining weight at the current rate, fat will be the norm by 2015, with 75 percent of U.S. adults overweight and 41 percent obese, U.S. researchers predicted on Wednesday.
A team at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore examined 20 studies published in journals and looked at national surveys of weight and behavior for their analysis, published in the journal Epidemiologic Reviews.

“Obesity is a public health crisis. If the rate of obesity and overweight continues at this pace, by 2015, 75 percent of adults and nearly 24 percent of U.S. children and adolescents will be overweight or obese,” Dr. Youfa Wang, who led the study.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19845784/

[wax]

bugs- Obesity is a public health crisis. If the rate of obesity and overweight continues at this pace, by 2015, 75 percent of adults and nearly 24 percent of U.S. children and adolescents will be overweight or obese,” Dr. Youfa Wang, who led the study.

Wax- Er... Ummm... Bull!

But I should explain.
Shouldn't I?

I am a consumer by nature, which means that I over-indulge whenever offered the chance.
Fortunately nature has endowed me with the ability to put on a huge amount of weight during good times and store that weight for bad times.

I say fortunately while some sections of our society places a hand on each ear and squeezes reall hard.

You see... we have become so affluent that being fat is a bad thing.
Let me restate that so everyone will clearly understand the issue at hand: we have become so affluent...
Perhaps I should say it in another way.

Obesity sucks, there is no doubt about it.
But a "health crisis"?
No... and with a great deal of prejudice... no!

A health crisis is when 75% of all children born die before they can breed.
That is a health crisis.
Eating so much that you can no longer fit out of your door is not a "health crisis" in any way.
Dying in your sleep from apnea is not a "health crisis".

My God, what do we perceive ourselves to have become?

Someday... whether one is a survivalist or not, any given group of human beings will face starvation.
It is a known fact.
Those of us who have the luxury of being able to get fat will stand a better chance of surviving such a thing.
Society might not like it but fat is good... ask anyone who is hungry!

We must get away from this self hatred and denial.
Having genes that allow you to pack on pounds is a gift, not a curse.
And passing those genes onto offspring is your duty.

Do fat people tend to die in their fifties?
Yes they do.
But that means they lived twenty years longer than nature wants them to in the first place.

I personally suspect that by 2015 more than 75 percent of adults alive today will be dead.
But that is simply my own fatalism concerning society as we currently know it.

Let's assume that our affluence continues...
Being fat becomes the norm...
People die early and do not survive to bleed resources.
We save billions in health costs as people die in their sleep or have massive heart attacks walking the dog.

Where exactly is the "health crisis"?

Fat is good.
Ask any hungry person... ask any kid looking for food in a third world garbage dump!

[timminsglen]

I see where your comming from wax..... but the way I see it is the body needs certain nutrients to operate, we're overindulging big time regardless of the health consequences... I mean it's a shame that the imbalance is so great that were eating ourselves into early graves while those kids looking for food in the dumps are dying because they can't find any..... I am sure if those kids had the good fortune to be well fed they would want to live a long healthy life then die younger then they should...... sure it may have been a blessing in the cave man days but cavement couldn't get food whenever they wanted.....anyways.. i hate pointing out problems I don't have the solution too, but I just have a hard time thinking we should over indulge because people are starving....... not saying fat is bad, i mean people are given a body and should be proud of it because were all equal.... anyways i feel like I am digging a hole here..... hope you don't take this offensively, I'm just trying to express me opinion on the topic......

[wax]

timmins- anyways i feel like I am digging a hole here..... hope you don't take this offensively, I'm just trying to express me opinion on the topic......

Wax- Of course, and it is important to point out that nothing in this discussion is intended to offend anyone.

You and bugs hold a majority opinion concerning obesity in the west, while mine is not even considered often.

That is important because many readers stop into forums like these and leave no comment, yet they can benefit from reading our different ideas.

After re-reading my post I want to make certain that readers don't think I am casting aside the individual pain that obesity can and does bring.

As I said, I am currently overweight and as such I can identify with those who wish to lose in order to see themselves better in the contexts of the society in which we live.

But there are issues concerning a "long healthy life" that the "fat haters" out there are missing.

Personal Health: Hey... it is a fact. Being obese is not a healthy choice in lifestyle.
I am personally at my best being around 200lbs.
That is my optimum health weight no matter what the experts might claim.

I am over that now, yet my physicals show that I am not suffering any expected health problems concerning my weight (notice I said suffering, there is no doubt that I am causing damage and that accumulation eventually must cause harm).
But those who observe obesity often assume health problems that are observationally not supported.

And again it comes down to the claim of a "Social health crises" which is simply not true.
Any given individual may very well be shortening personal life span by being obese to be sure, but society is not suffering from that.

Health costs:
This complaint is very odd... almost contrary to common sense!
It is similar to those who complain that smoking causes a rise in health costs... insanity!

According to current research the average person over sixty-five pays $1,200.00 per month on prescription medicine.
That is $14,400.00 per year folks.
That is $144,000.00 per decade.
That means that if someone lives to be 95 they (and society) is likely to pay $423,000.00 just in the medication required to keep them alive!

Do I hate old people?
No... not at all, in fact it is wonderful to see our life expectancy extended to the degree that it is (as long as quality of life is assured).

But the only "Social Health Crisis" concerns how to support these prescriptions when the aging population approaches a greater number than the wage earning population.

I'm 38 years old, not some punk kid who smply wants to see everyone old die so I won't need to support them.
But there is an issue there that can not be dismissed even for those of us who are approaching our "elder years".

Sure you can deny yourself good tasting food, not smoke, never drink to excess... but who in the Hell wants tyo die healthy ?!?

It does come down to a quality of life issue.
Much of it is genetics to be sure, but even those of us with a propensity to gain weight can limit it by denying ourselves.
So here is the question and each of us must answer it for ourselves:

You can live another twenty years eating whatever you wish. But you will die before you reach sixty.
You will enjoy every minute you have.
You will be happy.

Or you can live to be 75 or more... maybe much more.
But you will spend much of that time wishing you could eat what you wanted.
Your not assured to be sad or angry but the risks are certainly there.
Life is what one makes of it, but the fact is that there are many lonely and sad old people in this world so you will need to work very hard to insure you are not one of them.

As I said it is a personal thing.
We have many older posters right here in this forum who have proven that age does not negate enjoyment of life and a fulfilling quality of life itself.

I would argue that the posters I encounter in this forum are not average.

So let's say that thirty or even up to fifty percent of society chooses the first option and becomes overweight instead of monitoring their intake closely.

Assuming that 25% (120,000,000) of our population is within the range of 65-100 years of age and 40% of them die young due to obesity.
That means that 48 million fail to cost society prescription burdens alone.
That means that "we" will save $609,120,000.00 over the next thirty years.

Oh and it gets "better" in a way.
Because obesity increases mortality rates concerning such things as heart attackes and strokes, there is an overall decrease in treatment costs concerning a potential recovery.

Cost of death remains the same whether someone is obese and dies at age sixty or the person is skinny and dies at age ninety... the vast difference in cost is the treatments required to keep that older citizen living.

So who costs society more?
And who is happier overall... with a better quality of life?
The overweight guy who drops dead at the age of sixty from a massve heart attack?
Or the 90 year old guy who has survived 30 years of pain... three triple heart bypasses... and who must take 20 different pills every morning?

And of course the ultimate question is again very personal... which one would you rather be?

[RangerRick]

Been to Europe lately? American tourists are the easy ones to spot - they're all the fatties. Been on an airplane or to a ball game or concert or public bus or any of a hundred American events or convenances and be seated next to some sweaty 300+ pounder taking up his/her space and ahalf and you get to spend the next 2 1/2 hours standing in the back and being out $75 for the ticket?

Personally I think it's a disease, self inflicted like alcoholism or aids. Open orifice - insert stupidty. Obesity - the desease of choice for the weak of heart, mind and spirit.

Ranger Rick

[DaNgEr_KiTtY]

we fortunately havent succumb to this tragic disease thingy yet. we have found wierd things like physical labor, exercise & not buying junk food has worked pretty good & we have not had to suffer yet.

[wax]

Ranger- Personally I think it's a disease, self inflicted like alcoholism or aids.

Wax- You are not alone in thinking this Rick.
Carriers are now forcing fattys to purchase two tickets in order to insure that passengers like you are not punished for their life choices.

While many fat people complain about this practice I believe it is not only fair but justified.

I personally can not bring myself to identify addiction with disease, whether alcohol or food... or gambling etc, you agree that a choice is involved (self afflicted).

I am confused by this portion of your post however: "you get to spend the next 2 1/2 hours standing in the back and being out $75 for the ticket?"

Where, why... and quite simply how?

[RangerRick]

Unfortunately, in these "PC" days in which we live addictions are in fact a disease if for no other reason than so they can be so qualified in the American Medical Manual. Thereby, once in the Manual by law "federal/state funding can then be allocated from our tax dollars to fight/treat/support said disease and the myriad hangers-on thereof. We must always remember to "follow the money".

Three weeks ago I was in Billings, MT for at motorcycle rally over the 4th of July holiday and purchased two tickets to see the country group "Long Star" in concert. I unfortunately had the misfortune to be seated next to said 300+ pounder sweat hog. Rather than create a scene and embarrass sweat hogs wife and friends that were seated therewith my wife and I choose to watch from afar thereby losing $75 in FRN's value of tickets. Just call me a push-over.

Ranger Rick

[wax]

Rick- Just call me a push-over.

Wax- No... I wouldn't go that far.
But I will say that you made a choice and then took it out on the wrong person!

As you said "PC" is the expected rule of the day.

One of my dearest associations was made at a social gathering in which I was left holding my sisters child on a hot day.

There was a man in a wheel chair blocking our advance and there was no way to go back.
I said, "listen no leg man, since you chose to sit here blocking my way you can hold this brat while I try to make my way to a bathroom!"
He said with a smile, "that's no problem fat man because later you will hold the door open for me while I piss because these idiots think a man in a wheelchair is supposed to be able to use a door that opens inward at will!"

It was an extremely fair trade, and he is now sending that little brat to college with his own funds.

Politically correct will only get society so far.
Those that adhere to it do so at a risk. *

BTW: purchased two tickets to see the country group "Long Star" in concert
I am so sorry to hear that ;D

[RangerRick]

Sorry it took so long to get back to ya, been down to the lake in Texas clearing brush again.

Yep, I did make the choice to not embarrass porky, must be my compassionate conservatism showing again.

He said with a smile, "that's no problem fat man because later you will hold the door open for me while I piss because these idiots think a man in a wheelchair is supposed to be able to use a door that opens inward at will!"

Oh so not! You start holding toilet doors for strangers and the first thing ya know you'll be accused of being a peeper and find yourself with a free ride to the pokie, no pun intended.

;D

So tell me, how's mom/dad get "no leg man" to "foot" the screwll bill for said "little brat on your lap"? Mega lawsuit, shamless guilt, point of a gun?

Actually, regardless of where I would have been sitting, the group Lone Star would have probably been just as crappy - so maybe porky just added insult to injury of the $75 I was out for the groups questionable talent.

Ranger Rick

[wax]

Rick- So tell me, how's mom/dad get "no leg man" to "foot" the screwll bill for said "little brat on your lap"? Mega lawsuit, shamless guilt, point of a gun?

Wax- No, for some reason he loves her... I keep asking him if maybe he isn't "disabled" mentally as well as physically.

Oh sure she acts like she is "all that" you know: 4.0 GPA (+ helping to tutor my kids above public school expectations) and donating all of her free time to helping the "needy" but I got her number.
She started "pimping" him when she was less than a year old; he never really stood a chance.

She even gets me to fund her little "vacations" to Belize once per year to upgrade septic systems for locals.
Sure she spends most of her time digging and pouring concrete but she always sends pictures of herself sunning and swimming in the clear blue water.
I myself keep a picture of her covered in pig feces after she fell through a grate covering a pit down there to remind me how truly "evil" she is ;)

[RangerRick]

I myself keep a picture of her covered in pig feces after she fell through a grate covering a pit down there to remind me how truly "evil" she is ;)




Ah Ha!! I can see ya now sitting there on a sub-tropical fence rail doin your part for the little people with a copy of Backwoods Home Magazine in one hand and a roll of Charmins softest biodegradable in the other contemplating the wonders of a truly rural septic. Then what to your surprise comes "evil woman" disturbing you contemplations of a better life by flinging her body through your inter-peace. Hell of a way to make her Hollywood debut of "Boyz & Girlz Down On The Farm". Yes, I see it clearly now, low and behold - you catch it all with your little Brownie Instamatic. Ain't making memories of your days with that evil woman from the Peace Corps a kick in the head, life, that's what it's all about.

Did I capture the moment yet once again for ya?

;D

Rick

[RangerRick]

Maybe we sould tax em by the pound?

;D

Rick

[ncgrl]

I'm fat and damned glad I live in country where I can be.If you don't like it look at your shoes,stand at the back and watch.It's your problem not mine.

Fat bashing the last politically correct discrimination.

[RangerRick]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070813/BUSINESS/108130052/1001

Firms dock pay of obese, smokers
By Gregory Lopes
August 13, 2007
Companies seeking to cut rising health care costs are starting to dock the pay of overweight and unhealthy workers.

Clarian Health, an Indiana hospital chain, will require workers who smoke to pay $5 out of each paycheck starting in 2009. For workers deemed obese, as much as $30 will be taken out each paycheck until they meet certain weight, cholesterol and blood pressure standards.

Clarian employees will also be required to take part in a health risk appraisal that will inform the company which employees smoke.

Such appraisals are becoming a popular tool for businesses to determine the health of their work force. The type of health benefit program Clarian is setting up could become a model for businesses in coming years, analysts say.

"We anticipate that more employers will require employees to complete a health risk appraisal and participate in screenings," said Tracy Watts, a health benefits consultant for Mercer Human Resource Consulting. "We also are seeing more interest in rewards for healthy behaviors such as participating in health management-related programs and for healthy behaviors such as not using tobacco products."

A survey of nearly 3,000 employers last year by Mercer found that 53 percent required a health risk assessment of its workers. That number is up from 35 percent in 2004.

And 62 percent of the 135 top executives who responded to a PriceWaterhouseCooper's survey this year said their companies should require employees who show unhealthy behaviors to pay a greater share of their health care costs.

Weyco, a Lansing, Mich., benefits administrator, recently adopted a policy to completely eliminate tobacco use from its work force. In 2003, the company introduced a policy of not hiring tobacco users and began offering smoking-cessation programs to employees, who were given a year to quit


Sounds like good business practice to me.

Ranger Rick

[Bad_Omen]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070813/BUSINESS/108130052/1001

Firms dock pay of obese, smokers
By Gregory Lopes
August 13, 2007
Companies seeking to cut rising health care costs are starting to dock the pay of overweight and unhealthy workers.

Clarian Health, an Indiana hospital chain, will require workers who smoke to pay $5 out of each paycheck starting in 2009. For workers deemed obese, as much as $30 will be taken out each paycheck until they meet certain weight, cholesterol and blood pressure standards.

Clarian employees will also be required to take part in a health risk appraisal that will inform the company which employees smoke.

Such appraisals are becoming a popular tool for businesses to determine the health of their work force. The type of health benefit program Clarian is setting up could become a model for businesses in coming years, analysts say.

"We anticipate that more employers will require employees to complete a health risk appraisal and participate in screenings," said Tracy Watts, a health benefits consultant for Mercer Human Resource Consulting. "We also are seeing more interest in rewards for healthy behaviors such as participating in health management-related programs and for healthy behaviors such as not using tobacco products."

A survey of nearly 3,000 employers last year by Mercer found that 53 percent required a health risk assessment of its workers. That number is up from 35 percent in 2004.

And 62 percent of the 135 top executives who responded to a PriceWaterhouseCooper's survey this year said their companies should require employees who show unhealthy behaviors to pay a greater share of their health care costs.

Weyco, a Lansing, Mich., benefits administrator, recently adopted a policy to completely eliminate tobacco use from its work force. In 2003, the company introduced a policy of not hiring tobacco users and began offering smoking-cessation programs to employees, who were given a year to quit


Sounds like good business practice to me.
Ranger Rick


My bold.

You're spot on Rick very good business practise.

Now what they should do is extend it to, oh let's say, people who ride motorcycles because lets face it they're inherently dangerous and a rider is more likely to wind up in hospital than a car driver.

Then we could extend it to people who hunt. Guns are after all fairly dangerous bits of kit, it's only a matter of time till someone gets hurt.

But maybe you don't hunt...Oh I know what, how about campers. Those woods are full of bears, snakes and probably a few drunk hunters. You may as well holiday in Baghdad it so dangerous out there.

Let me know when you think I should stop discriminating Rick.

[snuffy]

:-[
On a slightly different note but concerning people who weigh too much (like me), I was cruising the channels yesterday and I stopped on one of those shows where people get up and make a**es out of themselves, (Springer I think); anyhoo, there was this guy removing his shirt.
This normally wouldn't do anything for me but I paused to sip my tea and by then he had it off. I almost spewed it all over the floor.
He had gobs of skin hanging down. I mean a LOT of it!, I'm talking droopy breasts, layers of stomach skin. It was gross! It was obvious that he had been grossly overweigh at one time.
My question is... is this normal with heavy weigh loss? Is that guy just weird?
If it's normal, I'll take fat, thank you.
I need your help here, I can't get that image out of my head.
Thanks, your fat & worried friend,
Snuffy ??? :-/

[Terri]

Snuffy, think about pregnancy and stretch marks. Some people get them BIG time and some people have none at all.

Some peoples skin is more elastic than other peoples skin.

[BIGGKIDD]

Hi guys,

Just want to throw my 2c in. At 16 living with the folks and going to school I weighed 238 about 5' 10" . Lazy fat & pretty worthless. My knees back & feet hurt all the time not to mention stomach aches. At 17 pop threw me out cause I had a party while the folks were away. By 18 I was under 200 lbs and 6' tall. Most of the pains I had lived with so long were gone. I personally can't stand FAT. Since then ( I'll be 36 tomorrow) I have bounced between 185 and 205 vary careful not to get any heavier than that. A little over 2 years ago I did drop down to 155 MS attack. I was glad to have weighed 205 when I got sick. Now I have a hard time staying up to 190 (where I feel best). A few (FEW) extra pounds can be good but more than that is just nasty and causes the overweight person pain. I know from personal experience that its not easy to loose but well worth it. *

Larry