"delinquent lands" ie: property tax auct

[jpollock30]

Want to ask people their experiences with property tax auctions etc. I've been tinkering with the idea, but so far am not happy with the results. I'm looking at West Virginia properties through this route mostly, but I'm finding if the property is auctioned at the state level, generally the records are a mess at the county level, deeds are lost, descriptions are wrong/misleading, etc...etc...

I'll put up more about my own experiences later, need to make the wife happy and go for a hayride with her somewhat boring if friendly family...

Anyway, I could use help understanding the process and discussing it with other "backwoodsers"

[Thomas]

I fairly reguarly get requests to survey these properties after someone buys them at auction. And almost always refuse them. Have always found them to be in undesireable areas, undesireable tracts, often with encroachment problems from neighbors. Quite often there are questions of descent, the original owner having died about 3 generations ago, and no written or recorded heirs, but has been used by relatives for years. From my viewpoint, it went to tax auction because nobody wants it for a reason and they are not worth the trouble. I have yet to see one I would personally want. Dont know about your state, but in some cases, a previous owner or heir would have a right to reclaim it for a period of years.

[txanne63]

In Texas if you buy property off the deliquent tax rolls--the owner has one year in which they MAY redeem the land----so if you buy it---becareful of the improvements you intend to make.

I find it strange--that the State--counties--land grabs are so tangled and messy.

annie

[Thomas]

Well, I dont think the state or county has anything to do with making them "messy". I think they are problems to begin with and the taxing entity just winds up with them.

[txanne63]

Well, I dont think the state or county has anything to do with making them "messy". I think they are problems to begin with and the taxing entity just winds up with them.


Thomas---could be---divorces--deaths--long probates,etc etc usually cause the problems.

And if the owners--heirs dont keep the property mowed and cleaned up--the counties do it and charge it back to the property--here that can get expensive---.

I bought a lot off the tax rolls---searched it out---It had-had 4 owners since the death of its orginal owner---it can be sticky---I was lucky--the owner lived just down the street--we were able to discuss the property--there was one garishment on it---He was able to get that set aside.

An aside: many properties on the rolls now--are from drug raids--seizures---those properties are scary to me. I havent dealt with them----but be hard pressed to buy one---dont know what history would follow it.

annie

[jpollock30]

Argh.... just typed a long message and it disappeared.

Anyway, heres what I've found.


In the state of west virginia, delinquent properties go up for auction by the state if the county is unable to sell them for some reason (poke around on www.wvsao.org). If they make it to the state level, there is generally a problem of some sort as the auctions at the county level are pretty picked over.

Alot of research/phone calls/visits to court houses has shown me that the state and the county dont communicate well regarding these properties. If something is sitting on the books for a while, the county "sells the property to the state." All that means is they turn it over to the state auditors office to see if they can sell it. Its all a political P.R. move. This role of the auditors office came into being by trying to recoup some of the delinquent taxed properties and get them back in the system.

But often times, there was no survey on said property, especially at the state level. At the county level, the properties are picked over pretty thoroughly by shysters/car dealer types looking to make a quick buck, generally on the interest eearned if/when Mr. Two Nickels (the delinquent tax payer) comes up with the cash. The investor (because thats really what it is at the county level, investing) gets like a 12% return on their bid I believe. The delinquent Two nickels (still has the first two nickels he ever earned in many cases) is forced to reimburse the investor and pay the additional interest.

My goal however is not to get a 12% interest. My goal is to get some property, cheaply as I can't afford it anyother way in this new "land of opportunity....yeah NOT" So anyway, I'm hoping that enough title searches, web browsing, court house visits, etc will pay off with a small piece of property 5-15 acres that I can get in this manner so my wife and I have a place to hole up if the poop hits the fan.

I did win a bid for a what I look at as a "bookmark" price (a dollar, but keep in mind, that the winning of the bid at the state level means little, its then that the work truly begins). But it turned out to be a 10 pole piece (thats like 160 feet, and not necessarily square feet, could be a very unusual shape). Hey, good spot for a camper.... but try to find the sucker!! Its along Laurel Creek somewhere, and the deed information was not exactly helpful. If anyone is in the Summers County area of WV they should get a hold of me, Id be willing to share rights to that property. Probably would only make a good camping spot.

Anyway, more thoughts to come on this later, but this is some food hopefully to get the conversation going. As I hope I already stated (I did in the message that went poof) what I'm finding is that if the property makes it to the state level auction stuff, its because it's not a quick and easy grab, there is research involved, and deeds to search. But in some ways the county inadaquecies (spelling) could act in my favor... sort of like hitting the daily number or something, and I only need to hit once, I'm not looking to do this as a money maker.

The state bid won dedemption periods are much shorter then what is granted to mr. Two nickels at the county level. If it makes it to the state level, odds are quite good that the delinquent payer is dead, members of the family lost track of the property, etc... etc...

[LakeCity]

I just bought 7.35 acres here in Texas at a tax sale. It was auctioned by the sheriff in the county where the taxes are owed. He in turn issues what is called a sheriffs deed.

What this does is transfer the rights of the party identified as the owner to you. No warranty of any kind is issued. No survey is issued. You buy only the rights of the previously identified owner. It can still be contested by others that it actually belongs to them. Again, all you get is one persons rights to the property.

The piece I bought has never been surveyed. It has fence posts left where the old fence used to be and the neighbors recognize these as property lines, but there are no actual metes and bounds extant.

I don't think any reasonable lending institute would lend money for property like this nor would they take a mortgage on a house built on it.

In Texas, if the property was on the tax roles as the former owners homestead or has an ag exemption, the former owner has two years to redeem the property. If he redeems it in the first year then he has to pay the price the new owner paid for the property, the recoding fee, plus 25 percent of the aggregate expense. In the second year the same plus 50 percent.

If the property has neither of these declarations, the former owner has 180 days to redeem it after the sheriffs deed is recorded plus 25 percent of the aggregate costs of the current owner.

When you purchase one of these properties, cash is due at time of sale.

When you buy these properties you get them at very deep discounts but they can be risky. Of the 100 pieces auctioned when I bought mine, only about 5 were desirable or a good value.

Mine will be fenced and used as a horse pasture or hay meadow. I will establish permanent property corners and probably get a survey that matches these corners and record it at the court house.

This purchase has proved very educational and I have learned a lot about Texas land law. I got this property at 1/2 of its value and to me is worth the risk for recreational property.

No way would I put any permanent improvements on it.


Hope this helps,

Jeff in Texas

[StatHaldol]

My wife and I buy tax liens and deeds in Louisiana, Texas and Arkansas.
As Jeff in Texas said, most of the properties are practically worthless.
We talked with an attorney in Longview, Tx. who said it would be really hard to get clear title on most of what is bought at tax sales. Therefore, it would be almost impossible to sell it to someone who would have to get it financed. If there is any cloud on the title; a mortgage company will run from it.
We've noticed over the years that these sales are much more competitive. It's been a couple of years since I've seen any good deals at sales in East Texas. I'm sure they are out there but it's like smart blondes and UFO's; you hear about them but hardly ever see them. ;D
We usually buy tax liens in our home state of Louisiana. The downside is the long redemption period (3 years plus 2 years).
We buy them just for the interest (an initial 5% and one per cent per month). If we do actually get a property after 5 years it's just lagnappe to us...
Mike in Louisiana