Cobbler

[Sarah]

I may be misspelling that, may be only one b.

Shows how much help I need with this one!

As in shoe/boot construction/repair.

Folks, is there any online references (pdf, etc) that you can point me to to assist a journeyman cobbler to masters level?

I gave him all we have, and he needs more.

Sarah

[annabella1]

Here is a link to a book I have in my "wish list". It is hard to find any information on shoe making.
http://www.shoemakingbook.com/
There are also some links to free videos showing "lasting"

[Sarah]

Annabella1

Just got some feedback from that apprentice, from his home enclave. He ordered the book. He had some choice words about the book. I will not repeat him, but you might want to save the money, and/or strike it from the wish list.

Sarah

[annabella1]

Oh I am sorry to hear that I had high hopes and an incredibly hard foot to fit.

[Sarah]

Hard to fit as in miss-matched size (like me, 6/ 8) or an odd foot? I deal with the manufacturers direct for my problem. A very special young woman here has the odd foot problem, and has to order hers once a year, over $1000 a pair.

Another cobbler has sent me the page of shoetrades.com, and thehcc.org, but both seems spendy to me.

Sarah.

[annabella1]

My foot problem is that I have an extremely high arch an extremely high instep, a extra wide foot, and a skinny heel. I wear a size 7 1/2 womens. In order to fit I need at least a wwwww. Then the heel is so loose, that I have trouble with blisters, muscle strain etc. Right now I am wearing for work a mens 6 1/2 wwww, that is really too long but I stuff it up and wear thick socks and hurt most of the time. My mom wears a 7 1/2 www womens and sometimes when she has worn them for a year or so they are stretched enough for me to get them on. My biggest gripe is when you go to try on shoes they will be extra wide in the toe box but not wide enough in the opening to get your toes into the toe box. I make my own sandals in the summertime. But I can't wear them to work, and I work 6 days a week so it's a problem

[Sarah]

The young lady with the 'odd' feet is here this morning, and I got a chance to ask her some questions.

Her problem is that she has 'high heels'. This is not uncommon with our people. In other words, she walks on the balls of her feet, and her heels are almost non-existent.

According to her, the real problem is that very few folks make shoes any more, and that those that do are so backlogged it is an exercise in futility. I feel for her, to have to wear those clunky things she has to wear, and pay for!

Her recommendation was to visit a VA hospital, prosthetics section, and ask for a list of the prosthetics makers that they all must maintain. According to her, there are 'heel cups' that one can have made, with arch, to make your foot fit a standard size shoe. She can not use them, but has seen them. She says they are normally made of a silicon type material, molded to your feet, and stay on by suction.

Good luck!

Sarah

[annabella1]

Prosthetic heels what a unique idea! I may just look into that. I have tried those things that you stick in the back of your shoe to make the heels smaller, but they don't make the shoe small enough for my heels. Well it could be worse my aunt had polio when she was 3 years old and her feet stopped growing she spent her life wearing size 3 childrens shoes. I think I remember my dad mentioning that one of his aunts had "high heels" and had to have shoes made, but I didn't pay much attention and he and they are gone now.

[CarolAnn]

We have several specialists here in Madison Wisconsin that will fit the shoes to your feet. They don't make them from scratch, but they do adapt ready made shoes.

I would think most cities of any size would have this service!

The place here is called "National Pedorthic" - maybe the word pedorthic will help.

I purchased some very expensive orthotics for my feet at a local store called "the Good Feet Store." They were guaranteed - but to my horror, (after it was too late) I discovered they were only guaranteed not to break - I fell for their constant TV ads full of people praising them. $260 out the window for two pieces of plastic that hurt me so bad I almost couldn't walk after trying them for an hour, with several days of pain after!

So . . . be CAREFUL! There are all kinds of schysters out there along with the good ones.

[CarolAnn]

How about this link:
http://www.healthyhandmadeshoes.com/

They have a shoemaking school. http://www.healthyhandmadeshoes.com/school.htm

[Sarah]

Carolann

:) It is really a small world. I know/knew him. He was a customer to restore a battered volume #6 of Golding's "Boots and Shoes".

I did not know he had 'interneted'. Thank you.

My reaction to his *custom* work was 'too costy'. He wants to work in 'standard' sizes.

Plus he identified three OOM students who attended classes as 'Amish'. Whoops! ::)

You gave me another chuckle, it appears he got more than the book repaired. The 'amish childrens' shoes on his site are a modification of the shoe design the poor woman with the high heels has to wear, but only on the 'balls' of her feet. But now you can see what I mean by 'clunky'.

I cannot agree more about shysters.



Annabella,

Thinking of the Golding series, visit http://www.thehcc.org, go to the guild library, and grab the two volumes they have up. Worth the grab. We have all but volume II, but may not host them, there are copyright issues. Sorry!


Sarah

[annabella1]

Sarah thanks for that link. I bookmarked it and I will download when I am on broadband tomorrow. (I only have dial up tonight) It looks like a great read.

[CarolAnn]

Sarah -
To answer your original question, you might try:
http://www.thehcc.org/

The Honorable Cordwainer's Company is an organization of shoemakers. Shoemakers prefer Cordwainer to Cobbler. A Cordwainer makes new shoes from new leather, while in historical times, a cobbler either repaired shoes or remade them from used leather - if I remember it right.

They will have information about rising from an apprentice or journeyman to master level shoemaker.

I got that link from this page:
http://www.healthyhandmadeshoes.com/links.htm

They have a lot of links there that might be interesting or helpful.

For the gal with specially hard to fit feet - she might need a cobbler rather than a shoe maker, as they could take some ready-made shoes and remake them to fit, and it should cost a lot less.

It costs $200 a day to go to shoemaking school, and that should last 5 days or more. The price includes room and board - and a family atmosphere. You go home with a new pair of shoes. In eight days of that school, you'd go home with two pairs of new shoes and even more skills.

That might be the answer for your shoemaker friend to increase his skills - maybe a day or two at this school could fill in knowledge that he needs to progress.

[CarolAnn]

Personally, I'd love to go to that shoe making school. If I could come out with the skills to make my own shoes, it would be money well spent! And I think it would be very gratifying to be able to help people with special needs.

[Sarah]

CarolAnn,

I am keeping in contact with that student. He is a member of the HCC, which is how I got the link to give to Annabella1.

There be much rumbling in that arena. I do not know how it will come out. The elders decide what arts are to be succored.

BTW: 'Cordwainer' is not just shoemakers. It really means a 'string/sinew sewer'.

My good husband, a master book binder, said so! :)

He has been gracious enough, against his better judgment, according to him, to allow me to research the copyrights to six of his references, in the hope that they may join our collection. It is fascinating reading, and I am very struck at the 'rope' bottom boot plates in one of them. But such research takes time... :'(

And I was not trying to 'sting' you with pointing out that I had already given that url reference.

And now to tease Annabella1 a bit. I am wearing my klompers. Wooden shoes. Have you researched that option? We have them, but they are made in old country by order.

Sarah

[PK.]

I was poking around this site reading about tractors and saw the woodworking section so as a cabinetmaker decided to check it out. Lo and behold the first thing I see is a thread that I know a bit about.

I'm a Master Cobbler, although my primary expertise is in repair. Ball State used to, and may still offer, several courses in orthotics and pedorthics. I took a class there probably twenty years ago. I've been told that they offer an online course, but don't know for sure. A good friend of mine is seeking his pedorthist certification and mentioned something about it.

It sounds like custom made shoes would be the best bet. You may be able to find a cobbler who can do vacuum molding and make you some heel cup inserts. Probably you'll have to go to a specialty orthotic/prosthesis shop though as in some States the laws have changed in the last few years requiring you to have a prescription and only certified shops can fill prescriptions in those States. Personally I think the things that The Goodfeet Stores sell are waaaaay overpriced. When I had shoe repair shops I made essentially the same things for 30-40 bucks each.

There are some semi-custom shoemakers out there. Most will send you a box filled with a foam that you step in leaving an imprint of your foot. They'll then make lasts and then your shoes. They tend to cater more to the deformed foot clientele so checking with an ortopaedist might get you a name or two. Price is probably in the 400-600 dollar range.

[annabella1]

I have thought about wooden shoes. Actually the sandals I make in the summertime are wooden soled. I call them caterpillars. You take a piece of wood bigger than your foot. Draw the outline of your foot on it and cut it out. Then you drill 2 holes lengthwise through the wood from toe to heel. Then you cut the thing in 2 inch pieces width wise. Then you tie them back together with a length of rope through the holes you drilled. You take a sturdy piece of leather and glue it on top (like an insole). You can either drill more holes and use rope to tie them on or you can cut a groove around the top edge and glue and tie on more leather to fit your foot. The cross cut wood makes a nice flexible sole. And all my nieces want me to make them for them every summer. (if you don't have a drill press with a long enough shaft you can cut the wood in pieces and then drill the holes, but I like how nicely the holes line up when you do it the other way around)

[Sarah]

PK,

Glad you dropped in. Would you field a question from me?

We have our own 'papering' programs for our Amana. By paper I mean Advon, Apprentice, Journeyman's, and Masters. We often have difficulty finding 'the' English guild on the 'outside'.

We have found three such for cobbler. And seven 'cordwainer'.

If you are papered, you would be familiar with the various. Which would you recommend?

A second question, for the now Master I noted, and for others, which references do you recommend? Golding, no doubt, but others?

BTW: Ball State sent us back a nice apology note in a very traditional University to University style. I appreciated that.


Annabella1,

Hmmm... That is an idea. Not for me or for the research I am doing, but an idea. Did you look into the premade slidetop desk material? I have seen wood slat stapled to webbing, plastic stapled to webbing, plastic holed like yours, and wood molded to plastic back with webbing in plastic.

Another small but related grin for me. Dear Husband threatened to 'toss my shoes' if I used a certain English spot cleaner on his aprons again.

Sarah

[PK.]

Sarah, by papering I assume you mean who I acquired my certification through? *For my Master's Cobbler it was through The Cobbler's Guild, which I'm told went out of existence in the nineties. *I don't remember it having any other name than that, and I don't know if there was a continuation with a different name. *There used to be a trade magazine that I got, but I believe it's gone too. *I believe it was about 1985 when I passed my tests. *I had to do a two year apprenticeship under a Master and pass written tests and tasks. *They'd send a written test to answer and a list of tasks to complete. *You'd take a pair of shoes, do the tasks on one and then send both back to be graded. *You'd also be evaluated by your Master. *There may have been a little more to it, but I really can't remember. *You received your Master certificate in whatever areas you tested for. *I did shoe and boot repair, orthotics and correctives, (Dutchman's, meta-tarsal bars, build-ups, etc.)

For my certification in Orthotics, I attended a two week course at Ball State, passed the skill sets and written tests then came back to Tn. and applied for and paid the fees for orthotic technician. *Back then, and up until a couple of years ago, an orthotic tech could fill prescriptions. *Now I believe you have to have a licensed Pedorthist in the shop. *I'm not current on any of the laws, so that sort of stuff would require some research for me to be certain.

As for reference books and such, I have a couple from when I took the course at Ball State, but that's pretty much it. *I believe they were written by Clyde Edwards, the Instructor at Ball State at the time. *You might try a student bookstore at Ball State and ask for anything he wrote. *I've made several pairs of boots and corrective shoes, but never attempted to make a career out of it. *I've owned a few shoe repair shops, but generally stuck to repair and correctives, not shoemaking. *My fabrication experience outside of the above is in gun cases, seat covers, sheaths and such. *I also did some leather preservation. *

I was never active in any of the organizations or anything except for the occasional get-to-together put on by one of the findings houses. *

I'll be helping out in a friend's shop tomorrow morning. *He's been in the business for the past 27 years and is much more up-to-date on things than I am. *I'll ask him what he thinks and report back.

[Sarah]

PK,

Thanks for answering.

I think I know about that 'guild'. Was it located in Scranton PA? If so, it was under the ICS. International Correspondence School. Time is right. We now own a lot of their materials rights, but lacking in Cobbler. A lot was lost.

I am awaiting a another response from Ball. With fingers crossed.

A full day today, must get to it.

Sarah

[PK.]

I believe the Cobbler's Guild was based in St. Louis. It wasn't a school really, just an organization of shoemakers and cobblers. St. Louis is where a lot of the equipment for shoe repair and shoemaking was made, particularly Landis equipment I think. It's still a good place to find equipment and people who know how to work on that equipment.

[Sarah]

PK,

I will put a 'shout' out to an enclave near St Louis. Perhaps they have some information.

Thanks,

Sarah

[stephen_tx]

I find it a little ironic that after 15+ years of being out of the business, there is still a glimmer of interest in this industry. I learned shoe repair from my Grandfather who learned it from his father back in Italy before they came to America. I owned my own shop until about 1989 when more and more shoes were being made moulded and disposible and people couldn't see paying $4 for a pair of women's heels when they could buy a new pair for $6-8.

I remember being in High school and shoe repair was all I wanted to do, carry on the family business. Then reality set in and shops were going out of business faster than you could blink because people could afford to feed their families on what they were taking in, even if they diversified by offering goods for sale.

[walls0stone]

our local cobler is as busy as a one armed paper hanger. *He sells shoes, but also can do leather work of the first order.

[Sarah]

Stephen_tx,

If you have any materials you could donate for interested students, or can refer me to such, please let me know. I have to 'ride herd' on what we do have. I/We will duplicate and return.

As for 'moulded', which I understand was/is called DMS, we are sadly lacking in that department also.

WallsOStone,

I am not surprised. We had to put our very humble collection under lock and key.



Right now I am pursuing via the British Museum (repository for the Stationer's Hall)(Their version of the US Copyright Office) the ICS, Goldings, and Hasluck references. We have not given up yet!

Sarah