Preparing the homestead for TEOTWAWKI?

[Southern_Gent]

What construction methods would you use to ensure the safety and defense of your homestead in the event of civilization collapse? What dangers do you foresee as those you'd have to be prepared for?

For example: Should we expect hordes of people flowing out of the cities and into the countryside, ravaging whatever homesteads they find? Would we be defending against lightly armed and disorganized hordes, moderately armed and mounted militias, or perhaps a well armed former military force?

What sort of attention must be given to the living structure, storage facilities, perimeter defense and so forth?

I invite all comments and speculation.

[kawalekm]

Hello SG
It's hard to say anything in general because every area will be different. I could make suggestions based on some books on the subject. Check out Larry Niven's "Lucifer's Hammer", about a killer comet hitting the earth. In his book, LA gang members rallied starving citizens to form roving bands of vicious canibals. In "Wolf and Iron", Gordon Dickson tells about how ordinary citizens became roving gangs. In both, the gangs were armed with regular household guns: deer rifles, shotguns, and handguns. I think that's what most likely to happen.

My own homestead is about 30 miles from a metropolitin area, and expect that after a disaster some survivors might make it up there. There are some steps that can be taken. Trees can be felled to cut off vehicle traffic, cattle guards can also be pulled out. Unless people are actively drawn to our area, I don't think many would make it.

I've started to identify spotting locations where I can observe the surrounding countryside and get a bead on anyone getting near our homestead. I feel lucky that our cabin is not visible from the road, and some long time neighbors didn't know my cabin was there. I may be able to observe passersby without letting them know I'm there. I think the best option is to never let them know I am even there. I may want to use kerosene the first winter instead of wood; and hunt with my bow instead of the rifle. There will have to be some sort of watch to spot anyone getting close. If someone does stagger up to the cabin eventially, we'll have to figure out the appropriate way to deal with them.

My cabin is constructed of concrete filled block, so it is relatively resistant to gunfire. It is also relatively fireproof. Only an underground house may be more secure than that. If a large group really wanted to seize my property, I don't really know how long I would be able to stand up to them. The only way to face a large group is to put together one of your own. This means reaching out to your neighbors to develop some kind of mutual defense pact. That may mean abandoning my own property to relocate to someone else's. I'd suggest everyone outlining an escape route if you decide you just have to get out!
Michael

[edward_4576]

You could right a book about this subject. It all depends on the scenario I guess. If it were a world wide pandemic then you ma not have roaming bands. If it was something socio/economic you might see waves of refugees followed by MZB's.

I live in an urban setting and watching the news kind of gives me the idea that only towards the end would you have raiders of any sort. It seems to me that the city wolves would eat the city sheeple first.

If you think back on some of the evacuations they had that the sheeple followed the main highways. In one earlier posting I read where the refugees cleaned out everything along the main highways and when it was time for people further up the road to evacuate the roads were clogged and all supplies were exhausted.

I think if you can choose to live somewhere the biggest point would be location. If you live near a state park for instance all these weekend campers would be right down the road, what happens when the food runs out? They would go scavenging.

Any one with a rifle or gun would think they were the great white hunters of old and next thing you know your cows are being shot (looks like a deer to me!).

I don't think any place can be truly secure. Not with the population of the US. But any place far enough removed from a city and sufficiently difficult enough to find would definitely be a plus.

[knuckledragger]

I was in New Orleans as a Rescuer after Katrina. Very eye opening. Most people stayed near the Super Dome or hung out around the freeway. Human response to disaster is typically fight, flight or freeze. Most just freeze and resolve themselves to sitting there until help arrives. Urban populations are used to the government coming to the rescue. Those that have the will to act normally act in their own self interests looting things like clothing and t.v.s rather than looking for water, shelter and food (the gov't is responsible for providing those)

Also, many urban dwellers are afraid of the great outdoors (better to face the demons you are familiar with) I once worked as a wilderness expedition leader with juvenile delinquents and I found that all the "tough gang members" were deathly afraid of the woods. That is how leaders in such programs maintain control even when outnumbered by juvenile gang members. Most urban dwellers faced with paralyzing fear will not come your way and the idea likely won't have enough appeal for them until they are already too hungry, weak and dehydrated to be much of a threat. If things ever go horribly wrong, we can expect most cities to just feed on themselves and implode.

[bookwormom]

Knuckledragger, my guess is that depends on your location.

[knuckledragger]

I know, that is very much a generalization. But, on the whole, that is what I would expect from large urban areas. I am basing that largely on my experiences in New Orleans and as an emergency responder in another large, southern city.

[Southern_Gent]

Thank you, one and all, for the responses to my inquiry. It would appear that as long as I'm secluded and away from any major roads, that the likelihood of confrontation is minimal, at least not from a serious threat. Also, to the one who mentioned Gordon Dickson's book entitled "Wolf and Iron", it is indeed a great book. I've only recently discovered Gordon as an author, and despite this novel being out nearly 20 years, I still found it quite interesting.

Incidentally, I tend to like fortress type structures, such as castles or peel towers. Of course, constructing such a homestead in todays age would be somewhat difficult, and costly, even if using modern day construction techniques utilizing reinforced concrete. Still, such a fortress, with a walled courtyard, would be quite defendable.

[WileyCoyote]

Another problem with building a fortress is twofold -
1) Try doing it in this point and time, and suddenly you are Weaver or Koresh, building a stronghold, not against ravening humanimals, but against the government itself; and 2) All of the great military leaders have been destroyed or substantially debilitated by being trapped in their very safe, very defensible fortresses - without an escape when it was surrounded.

My brother found a fairly inexpensive way to do it - he calls them "Leggos". They are hollow forms of styrofoam, stacked up as walls, into which he poured concrete. He says that the insulated completed walls are practically impermeable - as well as unrecognizable from the exterior as being fortress-like. They are very popular construction materials in the Northwest, from what he says, but completely unknown down South where we live.
My ideal defensible position? Deep in a wooded area, preferably with a dirt road that meanders from a path to nothing. A very sound and defensible structure wherein you have your nominal (3-6 month) storage - with a connecting tunnel through a hidden escape route to an underground bunker where you have an additional storage of 9 months to a year's worth of supplies, as well as access to a little used route away from the area should it get too 'hot'.

The best way to hide? Right out in the open, for all to see - not a loony tune, gun totin' fanatic that could be a threat every time he comes to town, but a nice friendly likable, even at times helpful, person who 'lives up in the holler somewhere' that no one ever feels invited to explore, because he pretty much seems poor and proud and quietly self-sufficient, even a little bit sad and pathetic. He will be easily forgotten in tragedy and turmoil, too poor to worry about taking from, and too far out of the way to molest.

It's easier to hide bodies that way, too.

[bookwormom]

if you dream you might as well dream big. at present I am more worried about looney neighbors that may be stalking our place. Drugs are a problem in this county and this area. we live on a place that would be a lot of folks' dream. Off of a gravel road, down a lane where you would not think someone is living back there. I'd post some pictures if I knew how. we have had gasoline stolen out of our car frequently, someone must walk in and know our place. other things have happened, the weirdest being two chickens being killed and neatly, like a pair of shoes, placed under a mortar tub. Someone else can use the woods and brush to sneak around. I would love to have multiflora roses growing along the fenceline, if it was in the open, but most is wooded.
I sure appreciate my dogs immensely.

[Southern_Gent]

Wiley - Indeed, you point out some very valid points. If anything, Ruby Ridge and Waco taught us that one's homestead should not be constructed of flammable materials, and that windows can be your enemy. Of course, given the government for what it is capable of, if the FBI isn't capable of taking out someone holed up in their homestead, no doubt they'd call in the military for an air strike. Nevermind the fact that the fellow might not be bothering anybody in his decision to keep to himself. Hence, an appropriate subterranean escape route would be necessary.

Bookwormom - If your night time problems are persistent, you might consider investing in some night-vision monitoring systems. Just recently I noticed a night-vision capable camera system, wireless, that recorded 9 hours worth of video onto a single SD chip. It was at Walmart, cost around $150 and came with everything needed to get the system up and running. Of course, I'm not sure of the quality of video or the viewing range of the camera, but it may help you identify who's running around your place at night.

[WileyCoyote]

I have always found it interesting that the most defensible structures of the southwest have never been emulated by people who supposedly want to "bug-out". The cross-hatch glassless and inside-shuttered windows, the deep-set walls that can withstand almost anything - it seems that people think that any old shack will do. And to ask them to do without 'proper' windows is like telling them they can never see the sun again. Something built along those lines - with even a 'mission bell tower' for authenticity (and 360-degree viewing of approaches) - could be very charming, structurally speaking - and very defensible, at least to a point.

I am all about "fool the eye" creativity - what could be a large, steel, industrial-freezer door in a basement could actually be a fireproof and fortified door into an escape hatch... Few people look beyond what they are trained or expect to see.

BWM, I too used to have nighttime marauders. I am a night owl, and like to walk my property in the dark (no flashlights) in most seasons. I still climb trees and sit in them, and I have what Dad called a "Natcheral DeadEye". (Most people do not look up.) Rock Salt or birdshot still works for those you do not want or have to bury. An "NRA" sticker or sign on the property seems to inspire people to go elsewhere - as do the dogs, especially if you can move them around to different and surprising locations. (We used to tie them to cables that stretched between different trees - if the dogs weren't there, the cables were an interesting height.) No one should ever be of the opinion that your property is theirs to molest or to take. Once they have that perception, it is hard to shake, especially if they decide that you have something that they want and "deserve". They should only get what they rightfully deserve... and it should hurt. One of my friends actually put up the sign, "This property protected by an armed guard four nights a week. You figure out which nights." Just a few ideas. I am fortunate to live where killing a trespasser to protect one's property or life - even if you only suspect your life to be in danger - is excused. One of my best friends gave me a new bumper sticker last week - "Gun Control is being able to hit your target." Gentle and consistent advisement - and sometimes one small experience - can alter peoples' minds about what is easier.

If all else fails, I am quite fond of my little .22 rifles. The really neat thing about the .22 is that it makes such a tiny little hole - and then kind of wanders around inside, coming to rest in the oddest places after it has done its damage, and rarely coming out again. When I worked EMS, we had a few fellows who made little trespassing errors - and could run at least a mile before the little .22 made them stop at last, buried in a part of their body that was far from the initial hole.

[wax]

Southern- I've addressed this consideration in the Building and Tools section, asking some questions about construction techniques that lend to a highly defensible structure.

Wax- I'm sorry I have completely overlooked this section and I am glad you pointed me in this direction with your outside post.

I haven't taken the time to read other posts here and I will quickly review them before going into any great detail in order to insure that information is not duplicated.

But it is a very simple formula that our ancestors have used for many... many years.

1: Force negation
2: Force projection
3: Force avoidance
4: Force qualifiers
5: Force security

Now the funny thing is that the above list was once seen by a West Point graduate who laughed loudly and then declared that the author had been to the Chosin Reservoir... which isn't exactly true. My father was there and he taught me everything I know.
But it is important to understand why this learned military man could determine such a thing by glancing at a simple list. The fact is that it is not in the "proper" order for any military... not just the modern ones but any military since the Greeks.
But you see, preparing the defense of a homestead is not a military endeavor.

First understand this fact: you will never, ever, be able to protect your homestead from a modern military attack!
Not ever... not even with unlimited resources and unlimited access to resupply.
It can't be done, but don't feel too bad, the best attempts ever made are the Pentagon and Cheyenne Mountain and even they understand that a modern force could not be repelled forever without outside support.

So we know this fact, David Koresh was wrong if he believed... well... the fact is he was wrong no matter what he believed!

All military place avoidance and security first, but they have a much different goal than the homesteader. They are acting as a unit which is governed... for purpose.
The homesteader is acting in self interest, for self purpose.

So a decision must be made and it must be extremely clear.
If my neighbors need me in a normal emergency I will assist them.
If my nation needs me in an active attempt to remain viable I will support it.

Basically it comes down to if my town is hit by a tornado again my gate will be open and anyone who needs anything will get it!
It comes down to the fact that my nation will not fall until I can do nothing more to insure that it does not.

Those are personal choices but they must be made.
My rights are my rights, but I have decided that I will cede to the authority of the United States as long as the United States exists.
Sometimes that means that I will state my rights without fighting outright for them. in other words, while I completely disagree with the ATF as a legal entity I cede to the fact that America claims it to be.
Every man must decide first for himself before going farther.

[wax]

So we have reached our decision, and decided that we can not be our own country with our own military to compete with the military of the nation in which we reside.

This relieves us of quite a bit actually.
Now we are simply looking at a breakdown concerning the assistance that society is supposed to provide us as citizens.
So we play what if.

1: Force negation

What if the SHTF or the local sherif simply can't be there to defend you?

It becomes very simple really.
Questions, always questions.
Where is my boundary?
Do I have one thousand acres legally owned or... forty acres bounded by State or Federal land?
It doesn't really matter concerning preperations because force negation starts at whatever line exists.
Nothing can be done until that line is established.

One acre is 4,840 square yards or 43,560 square feet, one square mile is 640 acres and the difference between the two is night and say as far as force negation is concerned.

If you have 640 acres then your job is both easier and tougher... because while distance is wonderful division is the key!
And the fact is that unless you are a multi-multi-millionaire you will not be able to negate concern with distance.
Your goal is 2,500 yards, that is the standard of the old "Ma-Duece" and even an accomplished sniper with a 50 caliber round would be hard pressed to defeat it.
So... can you put that distance between you and anyone who would like to do you harm?
And if so... can you keep it?

Most can not, so most must assume a lesser goal.
Secure my property from a non-sniper... or at least non-trained sniper, mob invasion.
That is a realistic goal.

The day after I took control of my property a neighbor asked what I was doing. He is a nice guy but he was at least a bit worried.
I measured off ten yards from my property line and started putting up a barrier constructed of six foot high log trimmings from my lumber mill.
It was nothing of substance really but it was a barrier.
He thanked me when I explained that I didn't want to disturb him while I worked on the many projects I had planned.
The fact of course is that this had nothing to do with it.
That was my line, it had to be established.
It had to be because all future decisions relied upon it.

Four gates, two large and two practically hidden.
Two more known to me and mine alone (Hint: My culverts are very big).

Ten feet from that barrier begins a wall. It must be low but more on that later. It also must be substancial, because it is the first aspect of force negation.
Mine is four feet high.
It is considered as the best "landscaping" in the area but it is a bit more than that.
In order for someone to gain access to my property they must either enter at the gates (ten feet within the barrier wall) or lift themselves over my "landscaping".
They then have twenty feet to gain any sort of cover.
And if given time to prepare they will have less than a second to do it.

[wax]

The key of course is access.
With four men properly armed there will be no access except at the two gates I designate.
A gattling gun powered with a starter motor from any six or eight cylinder auto starter motor can fire more than six hundred rounds per minute without the possibility of jamming.
Such a device can not legally be constructed but the knowledge of how to do so can not be restrained.
I would never suggest violating the law.
But if one has a Saturday afternoon and an average machine shop one can experiment without violating the law in any way.
And of course one can have all of the individual componants of such a device legally at hand as long as one does not assemble said device.

In any respect, force negation beginning at ones property line is quite simple and known to be affective from military history.
Then comes real construction concerning force negation.

[wax]

Most people think of "armor" as if it is a measure of depth instead of a diversion of force.
I suppose part of that is the fault of Hollywood but even that doesn't explain the confusion.

Plate steel is simply not the way to go.
It might have been thought of in the first World War but even our military knows better today.
As in all things real knowledge is power.
Test things out and find out for yourself.
Wood is simply not satisfactory concerning the stopping of modern rounds but then neither is solid steel!

So what does stop a modern round?

It is almost funny in a way.
Take a coffee can and shoot it with a 30-06.
Just about everyone can predict what will happen right?
Now take some tin cans and remove both the top and the bottom, flatten the cans out and stuff that coffee can with them and then shoot it again.
There is no doubt that alot of damage is done.
But the bullet doesn't pass through like it did before!
Instead it is deflected and often is trapped somewhere within the twisted tin.

The question of course is why and it is important to answer.
A bullet expends its energy upon impact and penetration: BLAM!
It does a great job because it is designed to do it that way.
But few people stop to think about exactly what a bullet is designed to do.
It must penetrate and it will!
It might be skin or a tin can or a slab of semi-thick steel but it will penetrate!
Then what?
Well... it then is designed to expand and cause as much damage as possible.
And it does, you and I can not stop it.
But that is where a bullet can get confused.

By layering simple tin within thin steel (such as a car fender) a bullet punches a whole through the outside steel and then punches whatever is behind it... but then it gets somewhat sidetracked.
It is not that any individual scrap of tin is too hard to punch through but every time a layer is punched through the bullet expects to be done!
And it expends its energy on each consecutive layer as if it will be the last.
This is why our modern tanks no longer use four inch thick armor but instead use layered ceramic armor.
Is there a "formula"?
No!
Test it yourself and decide what you need.
Try different things and decide what works.
But I will say this much: My front door is 8 inches thick... but it is actually sort of hollow!
It is not 8 inches of steel as some idiot law enforcement officers recently claimed but instead it is many layers of thin steel and free tin that has been sealed... and then filled with a non-flammable liquid.
It is the apex of my experiments and the sum of my needs.
My back door is a bit different but then it has different needs.

Short of a fifty caliber at close range I would not hesitate to stand behind that door while someone fired a weapon into it. The hinges are four inches thick but it is not a "blast door" as some have claimed... it is simply very heavy!
In a blast the wall next to it would give way before the door did but that has nothing to do with its construction.
That has to do with the supposed "murder holes" at its base.
But more on that later.

[wax]

The "dreaded D" or what I learned before first grade.

I have an associate... and he will likely read this so I will try not to type anything that will give his identity away.
He is both brilliant and stupid at the same time!
You see... he understands diagrams and blueprints but not simple things like a plane and how it works.

No not that plane, the original one!

When you open my door and look down you will see a brass fitting in the floor. It is just a round hole really with a flange.
If you look through it you can see the floor of my basement.
It is not a "murder whole" as local cops tried to claim it is in fact something much more important.

If you look at my wall I have the usual fire extinguisher ( you mean you don't? Why not? ) and shotguns... among other things... a strange looking "club".

It is two large "Ds" joined into a square with a yard long steel shaft joined to the middle of the square pointing down.
At the top of the square is a small handle.
The bottom of the shaft is a very shiny point but that is not really important right now.
The point of course is the plane.

When placed in the hole on the floor with the "Ds" facing forward the door can be opened exactly two inches. That might seem like alot but my door is eight inches thick so the actual gap is... well... just enough to hear a person saying something and perhaps passing piece of paper through but that is it. The left D contacts the door and this rotates the right D into place and "Bam!" that is it. Three planes meet, and none will give way.

If the person answering the door wants to they can turn the "Dreaded Ds" around and the door will open exactly 4.5 inches. Enough to place a hand through but there is a wall that prevents anything longer than seven inches so if you have a gun or knife well... I wouldn't!
The bass fitting in the floor is drilled to a two by twelve floor joist, and then braced by a two by ten cross support.

So back to my associate.
Alot of "learnin'" and adept at a slide rule but no common sense.
He was convinced that four men with a battering ram could punch through the door.
By all means... try it! I'll replace the homemade door with more tin cans and car fenders.
He brought 30 kids from the local college, which I wasn't too happy about but in the end it didn't matter.
He might have done it were it not for the four inch steel channel that my hinges are attached to.
Weakest point dear reader... always consider the weakest point!

They brought tons of equipment, he was at least convinced he could do it.
The problem was that his equipment wasn't good enough.
I replaced the door within a few weeks of saving up coffee cans but I now know that 15 tons won't do it!
That was over a year ago and I couldn't feel a draft during last winter but I swear to God I looked for one!

You want to come into my house?
Talk softly... request, always request!
And understand one thing:
My children and wife practice opening that "funny looking" slot next to my door handle at least once per year.
That shotgun hanging next to my fire extinguisher has a very real reason for existing.
If you demand it... if you beg for it and refuse to leave... you won't be left with any decisions to make any longer.

My seven year old states to himself as he practices, "It will never happen, but if it does!"

Of course my UPS guy jokes that he has never seen my front door, and I have no doubt that he is right.
That is too far.

[wax]

Readers of this forum have likely noticed that I use the term “associate” often but I rarely use the term “friend”. There is a reason for this, and my wife hates it. I should say she hates the social reason for why I don’t have many friends but I have many associates.

In some ways everyone is like this, it was called networking in the eighties before home computers changed that term forever. Yet the homesteading survivalist must take networking of associates to the next level. But how to explain properly?

A modern survivalist must understand the art of war even if his greatest wish is (as it must be) that war will never be required. Keep your friends close but your potential enemies closer. And when it comes to defenses there are known potential enemies.

Each reader must decide for himself how the issue should be handled; who should know what and why. I of course go farther than most would ever even consider necessary and at times things can border on bribery and coercion. It is an issue of ethics in a way. But ask yourself this: would your county building inspector sign his name on the dotted line, placing his reputation and in fact his entire career in jeopardy in order to verify that everything on your property has been inspected and that all of your buildings are in compliance and follow blueprints included with your permit applications on file? If so… why would he do this? If not, then he is a potential enemy concerning your security. Unfortunately in today’s world there are so many rules and regulations that one can’t build without some sort of oversight and one must decide how much can be allowed. For most oversight is acceptable, for me… not so much to say the least.

Other associations are much more straight forward. Friends are friends and associates are resources. Don’t get me wrong, many of my associates have become close and very dear friends… but many others have not. The main purpose for cultivating associations is to gain resources that one otherwise could not afford, and insure security concerning your activities. Homesteaders have always needed to think about this aspect of social networking but the modern survivalist must place it as the highest consideration and seek out individuals for purpose.

Here is just a sample list to consider:
General Contractor: He is an absolute need for the frugal (read poor) survivalist. He can answer questions concerning overbuilding and everything must be overbuilt. If a two by twelve piece of structural lumber is more than enough then you will use two. But the main thing that a contractor can supply is access to building material cheap if not completely free! He tears these materials out of worksites on a daily basis and throws them into a dumpster… or calls you. And he understands what could be reused for your purposes. But that also means that the relationship you cultivate with this particular associate must be very close. One phone call from him can cause more damage to you than a Federal raid… he knows things that most others do not. He must know that the building inspector previously mentioned is lying, and believe me when I say you can’t hide this fact from him because he will figure it out! Choosing this associate must be done wisely, it is a permanent relationship.

Quarry owner/operator: It doesn’t matter what you build, you will need gravel. In fact gravel is the source of your power concerning the survivalist homestead. It is required for drainage, concrete, and just plain fill. You can not afford to buy it… trust me. Yet this associate will not give it to you for free. What he can do for you is almost better. Commercial mining and quarrying has so much government oversight and so many regulations that you absolutely need his knowledge concerning what you can and can not do. As in many other things the industry suffers from (not in my backyard) syndrome. People notice when you start hauling gravel out of your property and no one wants to live next to a quarry. But in a very real way this is to your advantage. The land that borders any given gravel pit is almost free, and this guy can tell you which land that borders his operation is viable as a quarry for your use and needs. He can also let you borrow a heavy piece of equipment now and then to use. I have not met a quarry owner yet who does not despise the amount of oversight he is subjected to and he is limited in the amount of land he can utilize for his operation. You can easily deal with him.

Black topper: He has something you really need, knowledge and equipment. And it can be shocking as to what that knowledge actually is. He knows how to process discarded asphalt shingles into a waterproof sealant for anything you place underground… and you need this knowledge but more on that later. Just like your contractor this relationship must be close because he will need to see what you are doing.

Shipping Contractor/Dock worker: Sounds odd doesn’t it? It is not. This individual can save you money you didn’t even know you planned to spend because he has access to something you don’t yet know you need. But you do. My connection is in Duluth, MN and without him I would be lost. He provides transport and logistical information that is simply invaluable but he also provides the most important resource a modern homesteading survivalist could ever dream of… namely Inter-modal transport containers. You have seen them but chances are you haven’t stopped to consider what they are, steel bunkers ready made for your needs. We will discuss why they are so very important later but the point is that you can buy them used at $2,500.00 a shot or you can get them for free. Free is always nice! He knows that these containers have a lifespan and once that lifespan is up they are pulled from service and sit on the dock waiting for a rehab company to take them away. Can he legally take one if he wants? In many cases surprisingly yes! The point is that he knows and if you talk to him he will tell you.

Lumber processor: I don’t know how anyone can even afford to not process their own lumber today. A lumber mill owner knows where land exits cheaply, what the legal issues are in using that land for private timber harvesting and he has the equipment you need for processing and transport. Just as in the case of a quarry there are many regulations and rules, and this guy knows how you can get around them.

Junkyard owner: You must be a recycling terrorist to thrive as a survivalist today. You need access to materials of every sort and you can not afford to buy it new. But again there are regulations and covenants to consider, rules and paperwork, and whiney housewives who don’t think junk has a use so it should never be seen. I have loved junkyards since my youth… it is better than Disneyland! What is the nature of the thing… what does it do? This guy knows how to process the junk you need to use and how to hide what you are doing from the nosey housewives who want that perfectly good alternator in a landfill so she can whine about the environment. He is unlikely to give you anything for free; it is simply not in his nature. But if he trusts you and understands that you are not competing with him he will give you information that is invaluable.

There are many others of course, in fact too many to list because every homesteader has different needs and vastly different skills. But it is a starting point.