Trouble Making Whole Wheat Bread

[AllAmerican]

I am TRYING to make 100% Whole Wheat Bread. I swear I have made over 50 and every single loaf comes out heavy like a brick. Not even the dog will eat it. What am I doing wrong? I can make white flour (commercial) bread just fine, but when it comes to milling my own red wheat and making bread with that is when I come into trouble. Are there any secrets that can be divulged...I am just tired of wasting my wheat. I have tried numerous recipes and not one has come out even partially tasty. Help!!!!! What is the secret to making light, risen 100% whole wheat bread?

PS: I use a Nutrimill. Brand New. ???

[Shamrock1121]

Been there - done that. ;) Now I make 100% WONDERFULLY LIGHT Whole Wheat Bread, so don't give up. :D

BIG SECRETS...
#1) I prefer hard white wheat, but that's just an option, not a requirment. White wheat does make a lighter color and less bitter 100% whole wheat bread.

#2) Use a sponge method and let the sponge rest at least 2-1/2 hours, or even as long as overnight (12 hours).

This is a bread machine recipe from my friend, Mildred, but she says her friend makes it by hand with nearly the same results. The instructions are going to be a bit on the cryptic side for making it by hand, but you sound like an experienced bread maker and perhaps that will serve you well.

We use our Zojirushi bread machines - one of the only machines in production that can make 100% whole wheat bread. It's adapted from a recipe from Pleasant Hill Grain she got, and I've adapted it yet again for some of my ZANY ingredients. But those ingredients keep the bread fresh for a week or more.

100% Whole Wheat Bread
Bread Machine (changes for by hand in italic)

Sponge:
3/4 c. lukewarm buttermilk (I use homemade kefir.)
3/4 c. lukewarm water
2-1/2 c. freshly-milled whole wheat flour (Prairie Gold from Wheat Montana is my favorite wheat)
1/4 t. ascorbic acid*
2 t. SAF-Instant Yeast

Mix these ingredients in the bread machine pan and set the machine to QUICK DOUGH. As soon as the mixture is well mixed, unplug the machine and allow to sit (with the lid closed) at least 2-1/2 hours or up to 12 hours (or something inbetween - I usually use a 2-1/2 or 3-hour sponge, you may want to extend this time for red wheat flour).

After the sponge has set, mix these ingredients into the sponge:

2 T. melted coconut oil (or butter or veg. oil)
2 T. agave nectar (or honey)
1 egg
(I also add 1/3-1/2 c. chia seed gel. **)

Add to the top of the sponge mixture in the pan:
2-1/4 c. freshly-milled whole wheat flour
2 t. salt (on top the flour)

Set the bread machine on regular DOUGH cycle and process. Check the dough to make sure it's formed into a nice soft ball and adjust the hydration as needed.

My changes: I process the dough in the bread machine until the dough is mixed and kneaded. I don't let it rise in the machine. I place the dough in a dough rising bucket, place the lid on the top and allow the dough to ALMOST rise to double. Whole wheat dough does NOT have the extensibility that white bread dough does, so try not to let it go more than double. Using a dough rising bucket helps you to accurately judge when dough has doubled. Place the dough into a dough rising bucket. It should come up to the 1-quart line. It's doubled when it reaches the 2-quart line. You can get plastic food storage containers (with a tight-fitting lid and graduated measures on the side) at restaurant supply stores (or through King Arthur Flour - aka dough doubler). For this recipe a 2-quart container works perfectly.)

After the bread machine finishes the dough cycle (or has doubled in the dough rising bucket), dump the dough onto a Silpat and with oiled/greased hands deflate the dough by pushing it in the middle with your fist then drawing all edges of the outside dough into the middle (turning the dough inside-out so to speak). Divide the dough into portions (I scale the dough for accuracy.) Round each portion (make it into a smooth ball) so that all the gluten strands are going into the same direction. Cover and allow to rest 10-15 minutes so the gluten relaxes. Form dough, pan, cover with plastic wrap for the final proofing - etc....

I make this bread into 3 small loaves (7-1/2x3-1/2-inch pans - 350°F for 20-25 minutes), OR one 1# Pullman Loaf and use the other 1# of dough for 6 pecan rolls OR an 8-inch pan of dinner rolls - sometimes I use a portion of the recipe for hamburger or hot dog buns. A very versitile dough.
------------------------------------------------------
* ascorbic acid powder is available at most health food stores. It's a very important ingredient ANY time you make bread that includes wheat germ (which is in whole wheat flour). There is a substance in wheat germ called Glutathione. This substance breaks down the gluten and can result in a short loaf. The bran in whole wheat bread can also cut the gluten strands which results in a short squatty loaf. The sponge helps to soften the bran. The addition of 1/8 t. ascorbic acid per loaf of bread will counteract the negative effects of Glutathione. It will help prevent the gluten bonds from breaking down and will also help repair gluten bonds that have been broken. The ascorbic acid also helps sustain the leavening of bread loaves during baking. Yeast grows longer and faster when there is also ascorbic acid. Do not add it to sourdough recipes because they are naturally an acidic atmosphere.

** Chia seed gel is a mixture of chia seeds and water (1 part chia seeds to 9 parts water). This mixture thickens as the seeds absorb the water and adds hydration to the crumb of the loaf. It looks like poppy seeds in the bread after it's baked. Excellent nutritional boost and additional fiber.

By hand, place sponge ingredients in a glass or plastic bowl and mix the sponge ingredients together with a Danish dough whisk or a wooden spoon and beat the ingredients about 100 strokes. Cover, and allow to sit at room temperature at least 2-1/2 hours.

After the sponge is done: add the flour gradually to the sponge mixture using a Danish dough whisk (or wooden spoon) and carefully beat in each addition of flour before adding more. You may end up beating the dough 500-800 strokes, but do as much mixing as you have the strength to do. If you need to stop and rest, that's fine. The rest will allow the dough to hydrate. Towards the end of mixing, add the salt (DON'T FORGET!!!). The gluten will tighten up and make mixing harder after adding salt. The better job you do of mixing the dough and developing the gluten while it's in the bowl, the less time you'll need to knead it. When you knead the dough, avoid adding a lot of bench flour. If you have a problem adding too much flour during kneading, grease/oil your hands during kneading instead - especially during the last 2-3 minutes of kneading.

WHEW!
-Karen

[AllAmerican]

Thank you Karen for your wealth of info. I do have ascorbic acid (powered) that I use for canning and I think I will use my fresh honey instead of the agave nector. If this works out, I will also have to try the bread with my homemade butter.

Now off to the kitchen to experiment with more bread baking. And if this doesnt work, we will know it is a lost cause.... ;D

[AllAmerican]

Well, I did it. The bread came out wonderful...except I will be baking in smaller pans next time. I did change a couple things however.

I used 2 T Blackstrap Molasses instead of honey (wonderful flavor and color)
and I punched down the dough twice and let it rise three times before baking. (I think that helped the loaves be lighter.)

Does anyone know if I can omit the egg in the recipe? I have never used egg in a bread recipe and just wonder what the purpose of the egg in this recipe is...

[Shamrock1121]

Well, I did it. The bread came out wonderful...except I will be baking in smaller pans next time. I did change a couple things however.

I used 2 T Blackstrap Molasses instead of honey (wonderful flavor and color)
and I punched down the dough twice and let it rise three times before baking. (I think that helped the loaves be lighter.)

Does anyone know if I can omit the egg in the recipe? I have never used egg in a bread recipe and just wonder what the purpose of the egg in this recipe is...

WOO HOO! Let's celebrate!!! :D I couldn't be happier!

How long did you let the sponge set? That replaces the multiple rises and puts less stress and work on the yeast. Whole wheat flour doesn't have the extensibility bleached/unbleached flour has, and you are pushing the performance levels of the yeast by using a long sponge AND multiple rises.

I've tried making this recipe using a variety of times, even a very long 24-hour sponge - 12-hours at room temperature and then 12-hours (covered) in the refrigerator. It breaks down the flour to make a VERY light loaf. Using white wheat instead of red, my bread is so light in color it doesn't look like 100% whole wheat bread at all.

When I did research on using sponges, the scientific world tends to maintain the 2-1/2 hour sponge is ideal. The sponge adds a lot to the texture and flavor. Too bad we all got in a big hurry and quit using the sponge method years ago. The long soak also helps the gluten in the flour to get well-hydrated so that it takes less kneading and rises higher.

Molasses is a great idea, but it's not as sweet nor does it have the same carbohydrate properties to contribute to the dough that honey (or agave nectar) does.

I use agave nectar because it helps keep the bread fresher longer, but that's also true of honey. Both keep it from molding as quickly as sugar does. If you freeze the loaves, honey and agave nectar also aid in the bread texture and hydration of frozen bread. Molasses adds some nutrition and color, but not as much sweetness nor the carbohydrates that help to feed the yeast.

If you make the dough into a sweet bread for cinnamon rolls, I'd suggest honey, and perhaps kick the amount up an extra T. Sweet dough doesn't raise as quickly and the additional "sugars" affects the performance of the yeast, so I'd keep it to two rises (one in the bucket/bowl and the final proof after forming the dough before it's baked, if you make it into sweet dough.

Agave nectar has a greater affect on the retrogradation of amylopectin - staling characteristics of bread. That's important to us because we use one 1-pound loaf per week. When you take a peanut butter sandwich to work on day 7, it's still nice and soft like it was on day 2. All the moisture is still in the crumb rather than migrating from the crumb to the crust and making a soggy limp crust.

This is an enriched loaf. There is more nutrition and protein in it than in lean loaves, and it doesn't spike blood glucose levels like lean breads do. Because of the large amount of dairy product and the egg, it's higher in protein. In breads, the egg is an emulsifier (keeps fat and water in suspension). The egg helps to slow staling and helps breads stay soft longer. It also strengthens the crumb (doesn't rip apart when you try to spread butter or peanut butter on it). The egg will also help to lighten the loaf, add nutrients and color.

I use a pullman pan for at least one loaf when I make this recipe. That's a pan that has a lid on it for most of the baking time. It renders a square, crustless, sandwich loaf with a fine-grain crumb. Using an enriched loaf is best for this type of bread.

If you leave the egg out, let me know how the loaf/loaves turn out. It will probably do just fine but you will need to reduce that flour amount in the second addition. Probably by 1/4-3/4 cup. The egg also adds hydration. It may also have a more open crumb - but that's also determined by when you add the fat (another trick in breadmaking science). The loaf will also stale quicker than with the egg.

When you add fat also has some bread science behind it. Add fat early in the mixing and the crumb of the bread will be close-grain, almost cake-like. Add the fat late in the kneading and the crumb will be more open. Adding the fat late will also give you a taller loaf. Adding fat early in the mix has a shortening (coating) effect on the gluten and it will only develop in short strands. It doesn't matter when you add the fat, but it DOES give you a different loaf because of when it's added. I actually wait and add the fat AND the salt mixed together towards the end of the kneading. If you wait to add salt, kneading is much easier and goes much quicker (especially if you do it by hand). When you add the salt the gluten really tightens up. Adding the fat late gives you an open crumb in the loaf and a taller loaf.

One way isn't better over another, just different results in the loaves.

-Karen

[RNMOM]

I have a few questions about your WW bread. Do you use a mixer to mix it with? I too like the Hard White wheat, it isn't bitter and 100% WW bread is yummy.

My recipe is so easy and I'll make it a few times a week.

5 1/2 C hot water
2/3 C honey
2/3 cooking oil
2 Tbs salt
3 Tbs instant yeast
11-14 C whole wheat flour

I use a bosch mixer.
I put the hot water cooking oil and honey into the mixer along with the salt, I add a few cups of whole wheat flour and let it mix, then I add the yeast. I finish adding the flour until the sides of my bowl start to come clean. Then I let the mixer mix the dough for about 15 minutes. Whole wheat dough requires a lot of kneading. When this is done I form loaves and put it into my bread pans. I don't rise it twice. After about 30 minutes I put it in the oven at 350 for 42 minutes. Yummy!

Good luck and keep at it, it is a very satisfying thing to do.

[Shamrock1121]

RNMOM - If you are addressing your question to me, Shamrock (Karen), about using a mixer, then no, I use a bread machine, as I indicated after the title of the recipe I shared.

A bread machine does a much better job of mixing dough than a stand mixer (OR by hand) as proven in side-by-side tests at the King Arthur Flour Test Kitchens. *They use a Zojirushi Bread Machine (as do I) for all their dough making. *A stand mixer tends to aerate the dough.

I also find your recipe completely at odds with normal dough-making science, which proves once again, different strokes for different folks.

-Karen *

[RNMOM]

Hi Karen,
No I was addressing the question to AllAmerican. I didn't know if she was doing the WW bread with a mixer or by hand. I don't have a bread maker, but a bosch and make 4 loaves at a time. Don't use dough enhancer or VWG, but the loaves are wonderful, light and delish. Yup, different strokes.

[Shamrock1121]

Here is a similar recipe to mine I found while looking for something else. -Karen

Found at: http://www.canyonbountyfarm.com/flour.php#100bread


Old-fashioned 100 percent Whole Wheat Bread
(Beth Hensperger, The Bread Bible)
This sweet and nutty recipe uses the sponge method. Makes 3 medium round loaves.

Sponge
3 cups warm water (105° to 115° F)
1 cup dried buttermilk
2 Tablespoons (2 packages) active dry yeast
3/4 cup honey
3 cups fine to medium grind whole wheat flour

Dough
1/2 cup vegetable oil
1 1/4 Tablespoons salt
5 to 5 1/2 cups fine to medium grind whole wheat flour
Rolled oats for sprinkling

1. To prepare the sponge: In a large bowl, whisk together the water, dried buttermilk, yeast, honey and the 3 cups whole wheat flour and beat until smooth. Scrape down the sides with a spatula. Cover with plastic wrap* and let stand in a warm place until foamy and doubled in bulk, about 1 hour. Gently stir it down with a wooden spoon.

2. In a large bowl using a whisk or in the bowl of a heavy-duty electric mixer fitted with the paddle attachment, add the oil, salt, 2 cups of the flour, and the sponge. Beat hard until smooth, about 1 minute. Add the remaining flour, 1/2 cup at a time using a wooden spoon if making by hand, until a soft dough that just clears the sides of the bowl is formed.

3. Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured work surface and knead until smooth and springy, yet slightly tacky, about 5 minutes, dusting with flour only 1 Tablespoon at a time as needed to keep the dough from sticking. If kneading by machine, switch from the paddle to the dough hook and knead for 4 to 5 minutes, or until the dough is smooth and springy and springs back when pressed. If desired, transfer the dough to a floured surface and knead briefly by hand. Do not add too much flour, as the dough must retain a definite sticky quality, which will smooth out during the rising process. The dough will also have a slightly abrasive quality from the whole grains.

4. Place the dough in a greased deep container. Turn once to coat the top and cover with plastic wrap. Let rise at room temperature until puffy and almost doubled in bulk, 1 1/2 to 2 hours.

5. Turn the dough out onto a floured work surface. Grease or parchment-line a baking sheet and sprinkled it with the rolled oats. Divide it into 3 equal portions. Form each portion into a round ball. Place each ball at least 4 inches apart on the baking sheet. Cover loosely with plastic wrap and let rise until not quite doubled in bulk, about 45 minutes.

6. Twenty minutes before baking, preheat the over to 375° F. Place the baking sheet in the center of the oven and bake 40 to 45 minutes, or until deep brown and the loaves sound hollow when tapped with your finger. Place a piece of aluminum foil over the tops to slow browning, if needed. Transfer the loaves immediately to a cooling rack. Cool completely before slicing.

* It is important to retain the moisture in the dough by using plastic wrap during all risings; this prevents the formation of a skin, which would dry out the top of the load and prevent it from attaining a full, rounded dome during baking.

[reyecat]

i have a choice between Hard Red or soft white..... what should I get If I'm mostly making bread with it.

[Shamrock1121]

i have a choice between Hard Red or soft white..... what should I get If I'm mostly making bread with it.

WHEAT 101 -

Red Wheat / White Wheat
The plants are alike and have the same uses and similar nutrition. The difference is in the bran color. Bran color is determined by one, two, or three major genes that don't affect other plant traits. The original Turkey hard red winter wheat (the 'grandfather' of modern varieties) had 3 genes and is a very dark red, bitter-tasting flour. Modern varieties of red wheat only have one or two of these genes, so taste much better than Turkey Red Wheat.

White wheat has NO genes for the bran color, making the flour less "whole wheat" tasting, lighter in color, and sweeter. White wheat is my FAVORITE!

Both these varieties (red and white) come in HARD and SOFT, as well as WINTER and SPRING.

Hard / Soft
Hard wheat varieties are high in protein (gluten) and are best used for bread making.

Soft wheat varieties are lower in protein (gluten) and are best used for baked goods where you need less gluten development - pastry, biscuits, quick breads, cookies...

Winter / Spring
Depending on where the wheat is grown will determine which variety is planted. Here in wheat country - Kansas - and the mid-west, we always plant winter wheat. It's planted in the fall and winters-over and is harvested late June through early July.

Spring wheat is grown in the north. It's planted in the spring and harvested much later than winter wheat.

Ah, but wait - to finish the lesson....

There is another variety of wheat - DURUM. This variety of wheat is grown in the north (about 80% is grown spring-seeded fields in North Dakota and a smaller amount of winter-sown crops are also grown in Montana, Arizona and California). It has the highest amount of protein of all wheat varieties, but is best used in pasta, not bread.

There are a group of proteins in wheat we often call "gluten". This group is made of two proteins - glutenins and gliadins. In durum wheat, the dominant protein is gliadins. This is the wheat type that semolina flour is made from for making pasta. I also mill durum to make whole wheat noodles and pasta at home. Hard wheat can be used for pasta, but durum makes the best choice.

So now to answer your question, I'd get both types of wheat because they serve different types of baking needs. You just may want more of the hard red wheat for bread making and less of the soft white wheat for pastry flour, biscuits, quick breads, etc. Hard wheat keeps much longer than soft grains (including soft wheat, barley, oats, etc.).

For bread, I REALLY prefer hard white over red - much better taste. I have 75-pounds of hard red wheat (Bronze Chief by Wheat Montana) on hand, but I use it in combination with hard white wheat (Prairie Gold by Wheat Montana and some locally-grown hard white wheat) to reduce the strong acidic taste of red wheat.

When it comes to soft wheat, I only have soft white wheat on hand. It mills into beautiful flour for baked goods. If you forget if you've milled hard or soft wheat, just feel the flour. Soft wheat flour is almost like talcum powder. Hard wheat is fairly gritty in comparison.

I'd better quit... I teach this stuff in classes and can go on forever. Heck, we didn't even get into strong and weak wheats... BUT, knowing your varieties of wheat is very important to successful baking.

-Karen

[gsb]

How do I make hamburger and hotdog buns from my bread recipe? Mine turn out all messed up. Also my bread seems to be very dense and heavy, tastes good though. Both white and whole wheat, the whole wheat has trouble rising. Any help would be great.

[reyecat]

i use a recipe specifically for Hamburger buns http://desertculinary.blogspot.com/2005/06/hamburger-buns.html

and substitute 1/2 of the white for whole wheat.... turns out pretty good... but better if I do a sponge at the beginning. My problem is usually letting them rise too big and then they fall.

[Shamrock1121]

How do I make hamburger and hotdog buns from my bread recipe? *Mine turn out all messed up. *Also my bread seems to be very dense and heavy, tastes good though. *Both white and whole wheat, the whole wheat has trouble rising. *Any help would be great.

You don't say what method you are using to make bread - bread machine, by hand, stand mixer...? *That information would be helpful. *There are different methods to look at for each of those.

It sounds like your dough is too dry. *It's better to have a well-hydrated dough instead of a dry/stiff dough - that would be my first guess. *There are usually a series of mistakes that are easy to make and easy to correct once you know the tips and tricks. *So when I know how you make bread, I'll be able to give you a better answer. *You may not be doing a good job during the mixing of the dough, or adding too much flour during kneading. *There are tips and tricks I can share for both those problems.
------------------------------
Now for the buns...

Any regular enriched dough (one that has an egg or some dairy in it, as well as fat), will make both hamburger and hot dog buns. *Some people add a little more sugar than is called for in a regular bread recipe. *This aids in them getting darker like commercial buns. *Using honey or agave nectar will also cause the buns to brown really well. *It doesn't require a special Hamburger Bun recipe.

I scale the dough (weigh it on a scale) in order to help keep them the same size. *That helps them to bake in approximately the same amount of time as well as being the same size when they are done.

For large hamburger buns, I use 3 to 3-1/2 oz. of dough. *Handle the dough with oiled hands (I use coconut oil, but vegetable oil will work too). *Once the dough is formed into a nice smooth ball (all the air bubbles need to be removed), then you slap the ball until it's flattened to about 1/2-inch thick. *Place on a cookie sheet and process like you would bread or dinner rolls - cover and allow to double in bulk and bake in a pre-heated 350°F oven for 12-15 minutes, or until done.

What I like to use for hamburger buns are some muffin-top pans I got on clearance. *These are pans that have six shallow indentions designed to make large muffin tops (not regular muffins). *They look like these: *(modified to put in the correct link :-[)

http://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Metallic-Gourmetware-Original-Muffin/dp/B0000CFN2C

The shallow muffin top pans help to contain the dough and form a nice round bottom on the burger buns.

As a matter of fact, I made 12 small - 100% whole wheat sandwich rolls (2-1/4 oz. of dough) and 12 small Multi-Grain sandwich rolls, plus 6 large 100% whole wheat burger buns today. *I baked the small sandwich rolls on a pan similar to the muffin top pans, but it has 12 shallow indentions about 3-inches wide each. *

For hot dog buns I roll the dough into a log approximately the same size and shape as the hot dog you are going to use. *That should be around 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 oz. of dough. *

The rule of thumb for judging what size things are going to be (that includes a loaf of bread, dinner rolls, and burger and hot dog buns, etc...: * The dough is approximately 1/3 the size of the finished product. *You allow it to double in size before you place it in the oven - that's 2/3 the finished size. *Ovenspring - the amount the dough continues to rise once it's in the oven - accounts for the last 1/3 of the size of the baked item. *So NEVER allow the dough to rise more than double and NEVER allow the dough to rise to the size you want the finished product - that will be over-proofing the dough and it will destroy all your hard work.

You can do several things to make hot dog buns. *I like to place 2 of these dough logs into small loaf pans (5-3/4 x 3-3/4-inches, I just happen to have 6 of them I use for Christmas quick breads) . *I often get enough dough when making bread to make one or two pans of these. *The two buns will need to be pulled apart after they are cool and each one split from the top almost to the bottom. *These are perfect for hot dogs that are cooked butterflied open (almost completely split and opened up flat). *

Another pan that works great for these are aluminum Hefty E-Z foil pans (disposable - from the grocery store) that are 8-1/4 x 5-1/4 x 1-inch. *You can get 5 hot dog buns in these pans and you'll end up with pull-apart hot dog buns, similar to the ones from the store. *The 5-1/4-inch length is pretty good for most hot dogs. *Once again, keep the dough log about the size of the hot dogs you are using (or perhaps a little bigger, but not much) as a general rule.

You can also bake these on a cookie sheet or a small cake pan or biscuit pan.

Hope that helps a bit...

-Karen

*

[gsb]

Karen, I use a Kitchen Aid with a hook. Thanks for the tips on the buns i will try them on my next baking day. I'm new to the home mae bread thing and amm still learning. Worked in restuarants for almost 20 years but never did much baking.

[noelwright28]

First off,
Do you have a machine to knead with or do you knead by hand? Depending on that answer, I have other tips for you. It is possible to have whole wheat bread that does not come out like a brick!

[zbery1]

Something I have always used to make my ww bread lighter and softer is liquid lecithin, about 1 Tblsp per loaf. It is a dough conditioner and increases the strength of the cell walls making it lighter, not to mention the nutritional bonus.

[Klapton]

100% Whole Wheat Bread
Bread Machine (changes for by hand in italic)

Sponge:
3/4 c. lukewarm buttermilk (I use homemade kefir.)
3/4 c. lukewarm water
2-1/2 c. freshly-milled whole wheat flour (Prairie Gold from Wheat Montana is my favorite wheat)
1/4 t. ascorbic acid*
2 t. SAF-Instant Yeast

Mix these ingredients in the bread machine pan and set the machine to QUICK DOUGH. *As soon as the mixture is well mixed, unplug the machine and allow to sit (with the lid closed) at least 2-1/2 hours or up to 12 hours (or something inbetween - I usually use a 2-1/2 or 3-hour sponge, you may want to extend this time for red wheat flour).

After the sponge has set, mix these ingredients into the sponge:

2 T. melted coconut oil (or butter or veg. oil)
2 T. agave nectar (or honey)
1 egg
(I also add 1/3-1/2 c. chia seed gel. **)

Add to the top of the sponge mixture in the pan:
2-1/4 c. freshly-milled whole wheat flour
2 t. salt (on top the flour)


Last night and today, I home-ground my first grain (hard red wheat in our new Family Grain Mill), and used this recipe to make whole wheat bread. My sponge sat overnight, and I did the whole thing by hand. I didn't have chia seeds, so that part is omitted.

The loaf wasn't as tall and fluffy as my GF would have liked. (She likes big bubbles for her buttered toast.) But the crumb was nice and soft, and the crust was crisp and flavorful.

[Shamrock1121]

Last night and today, I home-ground my first grain (hard red wheat in our new Family Grain Mill), and used this recipe to make whole wheat bread. *My sponge sat overnight, and I did the whole thing by hand. *I didn't have chia seeds, so that part is omitted.

The loaf wasn't as tall and fluffy as my GF would have liked. *(She likes big bubbles for her buttered toast.) *But the crumb was nice and soft, and the crust was crisp and flavorful.

The recipe is for an enriched dough (fat, dairy, sweeteners) which characteristicly has a fine, soft grain, not large holes. If you want large holes in the dough, then choose a lean dough recipe (flour, water, yeast and salt). Keep the dough well-hydrated (very wet) to achieve the holey texture. Different recipes get different bread types. Enriched dough recipes will keep fresher longer. Lean dough recipes stale quickly - within a day.

"Tall and fluffy"? Did you scale the dough (weigh the dough on a kitchen scale) and make sure it was the correct amount of dough for the size of pan you were using?

That's a common mistake people make - too little or too much dough for the pan size. Most often they use a 9x5-inch pan, which is designed for quick breads, not yeast breads. If you use a 9x5-inch loaf pan, it will accomodate 2-pounds of dough, or a recipe that calls for 4 c. flour.

Standard loaf pans are 8-1/2x4-1/2 and will accomodate up to 1.5-pounds of dough - or a recipe that has approx. 3-cups flour.

Rule of thumb:

The dough log is approximately 1/3 the size of the finished loaf. You let the dough log "double" in size/bulk before you bake it, which is approximately 2/3 the size of the finished loaf. DO NOT allow the dough to rise PAST "double". That's over-proofing the dough and can cause the loaf to collapse. The last 1/3 of the finished loaf size comes from oven spring. That's the amount the bread continues to rise once it's in the oven.

-Karen

[Klapton]

The only pans I have are two pyrex 8.5 x 4.5 in pans. Most of the breads I have made until this one were basically my bread machine recipe doubled = 4.5 cups of flour. I would make two loaves from this.

With this recipe, I also made two loaves in these pans. I think I did indeed overproof. Or maybe my sponge sat too long? I doubled it in my new 2 qt storage container, and it doubled nicely in about 40 minutes... So I think the yeast was still going strong by then. Donna always tells me I'm impatient and don't wait long enough for the stuff to rise. I think I waited too long this time though.

What I really need, I think, is two basic recipes based on THREE cups of flour, that I can either make a single or double batch of. I'd like one enriched recipe, and one lean loaf recipe to try out.

[mom]

Looks like I finally got it right - used the sponge method; 100% ground at home wheat and added the ascorbic acid and chia seed and coconut oil and honey.

I had to leave for work before it was quite doubled so DH said he would punch it down and put it in pans for 2nd rise and baking.

Just got an email from him "just ate 2nd slice of bread - damned fine bread Honey. You finally got it right"

so thank you Karen

[cakewalkr7]

I'm so glad I found this. I just ground my first batch of wheat and my first stab at making a loaf didn't rise at all. Hopefully this way will work better. Thanks.

[flourgirl]

One thing that you have to remember when using whole grain flour is that because it contains the bran it will soak up more liquids so you don't have to use as much flour as if you were using refined flour. If your red flours are bitter then they are old as fresh flour has a great taste.

[Shamrock1121]

One thing that you have to remember when using whole grain flour is that because it contains the bran it will soak up more liquids so you don't have to use as much flour as if you were using refined flour. If your red flours are bitter then they are old as fresh flour has a great taste.

flourgirl -

There are primarily 2 reasons for red wheat flour being bitter... the bitter flavor associated with red wheat varieties is due to the strongly-flavored phenolic compounds and tannins. Those componds are strongest in wheat varieties, such as Turkey Red (the grandfather of hard red winter wheat) which has 3 genes that determine the bran color. Most of today's red wheat varieties only have 1 or two of those genes, which make them less bitter than those that have 3 genes. White wheat varieties have none of the genes which determine bran color, and therefore don't have any of the phenolic compounds that cause the bitter taste - and have a very mild, sweet flavor.

Bitterness is also associated with wholegrain flours when they are old, as flourgirl pointed out. The wheat germ oil begins to go rancid in as little as 3-hours after milling, so old whole wheat flour that has been warehoused and shelved for many months has oils that can contribute to bitterness. Bitter taste is also characteristic of rancidity. This is usually accompanied with a slight burning taste after swallowing. Another reason to only use freshly-milled flour.

-Karen

[idris]

I have found that homegrown wheat needs to be sifted after it has been ground, cos lots of gritty stuff just doesn't get winnowed out; whereas store bought wheat grinds grit free. Rising time may be the secret of getting a good wholemeal loaf.

[TEX]

was looking for information on bread and types of wheat and this thread is full of great information. Thought others might be interested