Water filters on wells

[rassd71]

Hello,
I was wondering if any of you are using filter systems, and if so, what are you running and why?

I've had a complete lab report done and there are definitely some issues I want to improve on.

The hardness is ... 320
Total Dissolved Solids ... 510
Turbidity ... 1.3

As well, I'd like to remove all metals, specifically Iron and Magnesium.

Oh, and I want/need to avoid the salt brine systems. They are actually illegal here and not good for a septic system.

[Phssthpok]

A good friend of mine invested in a rather small RO (reverse osmosis) filter system for his saltwater fishtanks. Seems the resulting water was SOOOoo much better than what he was getting out of the tap, he installed a much larger one when he buit his new house.

[willie_mccoy]

Had Iron real bad in a well,company wanted to install water softener-got 2nd opinion-had iron/metal filter put in for 1/2 the price,worked great,change the medium every 5-7yrs.

[762xIan]

What was the Iron ppm? Did the test get that specific?

Wish you were by me here, we could go down to the power plant lab and double check all them results. ;D

Looking alone at just the TDS, that is not bad. Better than what I have off my well.

All I do on my water is run it through a 10 micron Carbon block filter (4" x 20") takes care of clarity and any taste or odor issues. As a precaution for bugs I have a UV light installed.

[Vinland]

I use a kinetico water system in our home. Filters last about 4 mos and salts about 60 days. I have Iron, hard water, sulfer, and when we 1st moved in the test failed the ecoli test because the well was stagnant for 2 years. Other than that, the kinetico works very well and I love it.

[rassd71]

The iron is listed at .13, but it's definitely worse at different times. And while it's not a HUGE number, with my crayfish farm, I need to remove as much trace metals from the water as I can. Same goes for the amount of debris in the water, as far as it varies at different times. My concern with going with a series of sediment filters is that they would plug up. My neighbor says that it's because of all the new wells that have been drilled into the aquafer in the last year or so.
One of the local water filter companies that I've contacted has given me a 'bid' of about $6500. And that's just too much. And they insist on installing it and charging me for the install, because they say it's too complex! I'm building a house, designing my own closed loop recirculating aquaculture system complete with filter, but it's too 'complex'!

[annabella1]

Sounds like a slow sand filter would do the trick. Here are a few links.

http://www.oasisdesign.net/water/treatment/slowsandfilter.htm

http://www.nesc.wvu.edu/ndwc/pdf/OT/TB/TB14_slowsand.pdf#search=%22slow%20sand%20filter%2 2


http://www.watertechonline.com/article.asp?IndexID=5210904

http://www.esemag.com/0500/sand.html

I also remember seeing an article in which a slow sand filter was made in a 55 gal. food grade plastic barrell. A pvc pipe that was perferated was placed in the bottom of the barrel it was connected to a solid pvc pipe that went outside the barrel and up to above the water level at the top of the barrel so that the water level would always be maintained about 4 inches above the top level of sand. The perforated pipe had coarse gravel around it, and about 2&1/2 feet of sand was on top of the pipe in the barrel. The sand was sifted through a screen to maintain an even sized grain. This filter works with a biological layer that forms in the water in the top inch or so of sand so you don't want to introduce any chlorine or chemical bacteriacide. You also do not want to disturb the top layer of sand so it would be good to place some sort of baffle on the top where the water comes in so it wont erode the surface of the sand. It is said to be very good at reducing iron and mineral levels in the water as well as harmfull bacteria and cysts and baddies like that.

[rassd71]

annabella1,
Thank you for the suggestion, but one of the issues I have is that the need for large amounts of water. So a slow sand filter would not provide me with the flow rate to make it practical.

IF I could afford a large cistern it would be another story. But having to buy a 7500 gallon 'fire water' storage tank has eaten any money I would have set aside for a potable storage tank!

[Javelin]

you know rassd. if you REALLY wante dto be an a$$, you could use the 7500 tank as a wine/spirits cellar...

"But officer, it IS "firewater" look!!!


seriously though, why not use that "firewater" tank AS a potable water tank?

Or is there some stupid Kalifornia law against doing that?

-Jack

[rassd71]

you know rassd. if you REALLY wante dto be an a$$, you could use the 7500 tank as a wine/spirits cellar...

"But officer, it IS "firewater" look!!!


seriously though, why not use that "firewater" tank AS a potable water tank?

Or is there some stupid Kalifornia law against doing that?

-Jack


lol! ah, that'd go over real well. Especially if they tried to put a fire out with my home mash shine!

Seriously, it's not a state law, it's a county and specifically a fire dept thing. IF I want to use any of the water in the tank, then I need to add in a flow meter and an automatic valve that will limit the amount of water I can draw off the tank. I have to maintain a minimum of 2 gallons per square foot of 'building area' so that is everything under roof, including overhangs or any other 'building areas' that are within 60 feet of the main structure. So for example the 53foot steel and aluminum shipping container I have as a shed, any future patios, gazebos, sheds or porches. Including a paved patio with NOTHING on it, is 'building area'.

Oh, and IF I was to 'overbuild' compared to my onsite water storage, it would void my fire policy of my homeowners insurance!

So, if I want potable water storage, then I need a seperate tank.

I still have not made a decision regarding water filtration. It's just amazing the amount of blatantly conflicting information. Everybody says there system is the best and the others are terrible. And many offer sound science to back it up. While others are just using 'pop science' at best and down right lies at worst to sell their products.

[billy_goat_gruff]

Hey, rass,

Water chemistry is complex. Every water is different and even the water from the same source is different at different times of the day, month and year. With that said, you are very capable of understanding it IMO. Takes time but... You don't want to hear some of the stories about water equipment/plant operators that are out there. Sad but true stuff...

Don't quite know what you mean by large water demand, however, about the only thing not mentioned so far are evaporators (distillation units.)

I would suggest that you revisit the slow sand filter data. Two 10 x 10 slow sand filters should give you at least a 1000 gallons per day of very good water if I am not having a brain tootie... They also get away from brine water, or other nasty waste waters.

RO and evaporators have reject water that gets pretty nasty, softeners have the recharge solution usually salt water, oxidation reactions followed by filtration will probably get the iron and magnesium but your desire for getting everything out may leave them wanting (you get to deal with the backwash.)

Septic systems aren't that fragile, however, they do require a fairly consistent waste to process. The processing bugs adapt to a certain extent.

FWIW, FYI, IMO ;)

[billy_goat_gruff]

You guys are supposed to catch my brain tooties... guess you have me on ignore. Don't blame you much since I talk in circles a bunch.

I found a brain tootie, ras.

Slow sand filters - magic number is 50 gallons per day per square foot of filter area. Actual experience will vary depending on your set up and source water.

So, for 200 square feet of area you are looking at 10,000 gallons per day, not 1000.

Sorry for the mix up. Differential equations I can do, simple multiplication is much harder... ::) (just kidding, k?)

[rassd71]

bgg,
The problem I would have is with the volume and time it would take to fill my cray tanks, as they are over 4000 gallons each. While they will be in a closed loop recirculating system, there may still be times that I will need to change the water quickly.

[billy_goat_gruff]

4000 gallons... that is a WOW!!! Somehow, I'm thinking you aren't in the crayfish business as a hobby now...

I'm lost on this one. Wish I could help though. Do wish you lots of luck.

And, another brain tootie... asked my boss about slow sand filters yesterday as relates to iron and manganese. He came up through the water side unlike me. And he got this funny look on his face...

He indicated that even with the slow sand filters the water will probably have to have air bubbled through it to oxidize the metals. And he started talking about a pH of around 8.5 or more to get the manganese to come out of solution and react. Can't oxidize disolved metals, the water holds them to tight I guess...

Hey, it came up as training for me... *;D *There is a town that just drilled a well and it came in with high iron and manganese. Only secondary rules about that (non-enforceably by our enforcer guys) but the boss asked the town to come in and discuss it. The engineer called me and wanted to know if it was an ambush so I had to talk to the boss anyway.

Nope, no ambush, just us wanting to look the mayor in the eye when we tell him that the citizens of his town will probably lynch him when their whites turn rusty, and that we want a documented meeting where we told him about it before the well goes online... We've had to bring our rope to our own lynching a few times. NOT FUN! *:P

Oklahoma... some of the bureaucrats are still leery of the citizens. But, isn't that the way it should be? I like it here anyway...

[rassd71]

lol, yeah... they should definitely remember who they work for!

I'm glad something good came out of it for ya. I still have no idea which way I'm going to go... but when I finally make a decision, I'll let you know!

oh, and as for not being a 'hobby' anymore, that's what I'm working on! I currently have 6 fiberglass tanks, each one is 4100 gallons. I'm hoping by next summer to have them up and running! But that's on the back burner with the house being the first project!

[Eagle]

Hi Rassd,

Just adding these links in here(3rd link specifically for fish farms and new)...may or may not provide ideas/methods for custom "self" made system(s) to get You what You want and need.

http://www.pondpals.com/pond_filtration_systems/natural_filters.html

http://www.pondpals.com/pond_filtration_systems/cyprio_green_machine.html

http://www.thepondprofessor.com/productshozelockuk/hozelocktrinamic.htm
The Trinamic filter includes the modern and effective biofilter medium called Kaldnes. The medium Kaldnes invented by a Norwegian professor for use in fish farming and sewage treatment plants functions on a moving bed (agitation or turbulent) principle that allows good contact between food oxygen and bacteria in the pond filter.