HVAC

[MadTripper]

Are there any HVAC experts in the forums? I am having an issue with a Weil-Mclain Ultra 80 that I installed myself. Looking for some information if anyone is familiar.

Tripper

[blackpowderbill]

I use to do HVAC work, but now I just operate large equipment.
What is teh problem?

[MadTripper]

I think I have pinpointed my issue. *

Basically, I have the 80 running a 2 zone area. *I have a radiant design with 10 loops, 4 in the first zone 6 in the latter all running around 230ft per loop. *I was slow getting the insulation installed in the basement ceiling which is where the heating loops reside so on cold days/nights, I could hear the boiler reverberating through the exhaust. *Since I now have most of my insulation installed, the sound hasn't been very often so my assumption is that the boiler was having a hard time keeping up.

The other issue I had was during the summer, keep in mind we just moved in last June, occasionally the boiler would go to hard lockout with an error indicating the unit tried to fire 5 times and failed. *Since the heating has kicked in, I haven't seen this problem. *I'll have to monitor after the winter and see if it returns.

Tripper

[blackpowderbill]

2300 feet of PEX on a 80k btu boiler.
Are their heat transfer plates installed?
Your insulation should help move the heat up through the floor.
I take it the boiler has a domestic coil for summer hot water use?

Error code, pull the ignition and clean it off. check to see if it has any cracks in the ceramic if it has that type. It would be grounding out on you. Also gas pressure fluxations may cause it to sence a fault.
No air flow ,low air flow on the forced draft fan switch. Restricted exhaust pipe will also cause you problems.
No water flow.


these are teh simplest probelms with boilers.

[MadTripper]

Our house only requires 25K-30K for heat so I'm well within limits. I have 20 inch long heat plates installed spaced an inch apart. The insulation is helping but I just haven't found time to finish it off.

I have a 40 gallon indirect for domestic hot water. There is an outdoor reset installed so the heating loops basically shut off in the summer. I could hardware a switch to put it in "summer mode" however haven't found a need as of yet.

I did adjust the flow rate recently. From my understanding, I need about .25 gpm per 100 feet of 1/2 inch pex. I have flow valves on the feed sides of each loop and globe indicators on the return side of each loop. Right now I'm at about .33 gpm per loop which is low. I moved it down from .5 gpm however I think I'll move that back over the weekend. My delta T has remained 15 to 18 degrees.

If there was a crack on the ceramic, wouldn't I see the error more often? I haven't seen this error in months now that the boiler is on heating duty. Gas pressure could be an issue since I have 3/4" pipe as my main trunk. I'm not familiar with a forced draft switch on this model. Exhaust pipe is clear. Water pressure has remained at 12 to 15 lbs and my circ pumps seem to be operating just fine.

Tripper

[SkooliesRock]

Doesn't it flash a code, and you have a diagnostic sheet to define the code? What mode is failing? Limit, ignition, etc.

Also, I can't recall if that unit is DSI, or hot surface ignition, but NEVER handle the ignitors surface as the oils in your skin will ruin it. There should be a flame sensor, remove & clean it with some light sandpaper (gently).

Several issues could cause lock-out, from gas pressure, electrical grounding/polarity, pressure switch/vent blockage, roll-out or other limits, not sensing flame (ignition)....or you could have a bad board.

How many btu (input) is the boiler, and is it natural or LP gas?

[MadTripper]

The error code was failure after 5 attempts to fire which I indicated in a previous post. I haven't had the issue all summer so perhaps it was just working out some kinks while it was new. My unit is LP and rated at 80 MBH. Here is a page if you would like to check it out.

http://www.weil-mclain.com/products/display/1-Ultra%20gas?show=ratings

As far as I know, it is still the most efficient boiler available and comes with some nice control features. At low temps, ie radiant floor heating, the system has a 98% afue.

I'll post back if anything changes but so far, it has ran well. Again, there was quite a bit of insulation placed underneath it early spring (about an R value of 28+).

Tripper

[Drawbar]

It sounds to me like you got a LP supply issue. Did you go with the new 2 pound system or did you go with 11 inches (½ pound) as your secondary regulator?

I might be way off based, but if you have a separate indirect water heater and your boiler is trying to fire at the same time, you might be out of fuel if all you have is 11 inches going to it, and a long run to boot ???

Incidentally I have a 80 btu LP boiler running my 2100 square foot home in frigid Maine with no problems. My home is super-insulated but I burned 700 gallons last winter which is darn good here. I darn near went with a water heater as a way to heat my water but the company I bought my stuff through convinced me to go with the boiler. In all it cost me 10K but the pay back is less then 6 years.

Here is a picture of my boiler during install, and then a picture of my boiler all covered up. This is to keep little kids away from the controls and valves. You will note that this is in my laundry room,and that the cover is on rails mounted in the ceiling. When I need to work on the boiler, I simply slide the wooden box out on the rails and everything is wide open to work on.




http://www.railroadmachinist.com/images/Laundry_Room2.JPG

[Drawbar]

http://www.railroadmachinist.com/images/Boiler_Box-small.JPG

[MadTripper]

I'm not real sure on the propane setup as my fuel provider hooked everything up according to my appliances that require gas. Like I said, I haven't had an issue all summer and I'm quite sure one of the issues last winter was overworking it.

My indirect water heater is just that. It is a third zone off of my boiler which also has domestic hot water priority. The only other item in the loop is our gas cooktop but I know it was setup to provide enough gas for both.

Like I said, there hasn't been any further error codes since last summer and with the added insulation, I should be set this winter.

Here are a few shots of my setup. It took me about three weeks to get everything installed on the board and another few weeks to get the pex and aluminum plates installed.

http://www.madtripper.com/gallery/d/6229-2/may07+026.jpg

Here is our cooktop, it was the only thing we really splurged on in the house because I love to cook.

http://www.madtripper.com/gallery/d/6369-2/may07_II+021.jpg

Pex Manifolds

http://www.madtripper.com/gallery/d/6408-2/may07_II+048.jpg

Tripper

[SkooliesRock]

The error code was failure after 5 attempts to fire which I indicated in a previous post. *I haven't had the issue all summer so perhaps it was just working out some kinks while it was new. *My unit is LP and rated at 80 MBH. *Here is a page if you would like to check it out.

http://www.weil-mclain.com/products/display/1-Ultra%20gas?show=ratings

As far as I know, it is still the most efficient boiler available and comes with some nice control features. *At low temps, ie radiant floor heating, the system has a 98% afue.

I'll post back if anything changes but so far, it has ran well. *Again, there was quite a bit of insulation placed underneath it early spring (about an R value of 28+).

Tripper

I believe the board is "self-diagnostic", meaning it flashes a certain number of times, pauses, and repeates the code. If you count the flashes you should have a code chart that says 1-flash is ????, 2-flashes is ????, and so on. It's usually supplied with your Homeowners?service info, and they used to put a sticker on the boiler which also included it. At least that's how they were. I was a WM dealer and installed several of them as well as Burnham boilers.

Hopefully whatever the problem was is gone. If it locks-out again, count the number of flashes.

[MadTripper]

I installed the system myself and prior to installation read through all of the manuals including installation, users, and control supplement. *I have a copy of the control supplement printed and hanging on the boiler for reference and I'm not familiar with any flash codes, just the letter and number which correspond with a chart. *Hopefully, it was just a matter of installation gremlins. *All seems to be working fine and I won't turn my thermostats up until early October (hopefully!). *I'm in the NE corner of Pennsylvania so we get our fair share of winter weather. *Of course with the woodstove (was here when we built on top of existing structure) and duct work I'm adding this year, I hope to mainly use the boiler for dhw. *During our colder months last year, I used about 100 gallons per month but this was mainly due to the lack of insulation which has been corrected.

Tripper

[Drawbar]

Nice set-up. You are like me in that you like a nice tight,orderly fit of things. I like to keep things as uncluttered as possible. It just looks better and saves on parts and stuff.

I really am impressed by that. With some homeowner installs it looks like and explosion of copper and pex happened. That though was really nice. Again good job. I think you beat half the professionals as far as tight and compact goes...

[SkooliesRock]

Odds are good then that in the past 5 years they've changed controls. lol, sounds right that they'd remove something that would let a homeowner diagnose a problem & save a possible service call.

I'll agree with Drawbar, you did a nice installation!

[MadTripper]

Thanks for the compliments. I borrowed my uncles B tank which made things much easier.

I do enjoy order and cleanliness (disease from the Navy I'm sure) but right now, I have a 74 Landcruiser piled up between the boiler and the wood stove. Just too many projects!

Thanks for the input and if anything goes south, I'll make sure I check in. I do have some small areas of insulation to finish up but that is for cooler weather. Fiberglass in warm weather is just miserable.

Tripper