Whats a good rifle?

[Rafael]

I want to get a rifle. I know pistols, but I am not familiar with rifles.
I do not want a rifle for hunting, I want something that is good for defending ones family and property. Versatility would be could, something that would work for short and long range.
Any advice?

[backlash]

Unless you want an AR or AK I would look at a lever action 30-30 if you are set on a rifle.
Henry arms make a very good line of lever action guns and they are American made.
My home defense gun is a Mossberg 12 gage shotgun.
Years ago my Mother wanted a gun for home defense so I got her a 20 gage pump. Thankfully she never needed it.
Backlash

[kawalekm]

That question is a lot like asking "what's a good woman like"; guarrantied to produce and avalanche of personal opinions. I would guess you'd want something relatively powerful, but not as high powered as a deer rifle. You also want something that has relatively high firepower, is readily available, and is not too expensive.

I could suggest two different options, either a lever action rifle in .357/.44/.30-30, or a semi-auto like the SKS, shooting 7.6X39mm. Either choice would run you about 399$ at your local X-mart sporting goods store right now. And, each is sort of acceptable for taking a deer if you keep the range close enough!

Does it have to be a rifle? You can get a Rem/Moss shotgun for less than 300$ and that could serve a dual role in personal protection and harvesting game. You can buy a generic 12 gauge that will handle loads ranging from light target shot for squirrels to heavy slugs for a bear. Also, a load of light shot is less likely to punch through a house wall and keep on going. Rifle bullets will do that.
Good luck to you,
Michael

[rice paddy daddy]

I have been shooting firearms for over 50 years. Everything from 22 caliber to the Browning M2 50 cal machine gun. And I'll second the 30-30 lever rifle as a good all around rifle.
I have in my cabinet many rifles to choose from, but when I go to bed at night, leaning in the corner ready for immediate use is a 12 ga pump and a Winchester 94.
The AK is not ergonomically friendly to me, and after a stint in Vietnam I wouldn't waste my money on an AR, but if you feel the 223 is a good round, a Ruger Mini 14 is a good bet (I have one for plinking).
I personally feel 30 caliber is the way to go, and the lever gun can be topped off during a fight without dropping a magazine. Besides, in most cases we will never need an assault rifle with tacticool do-dads and multiple hi-cap magazines. That's a Walter Mitty fantasy.
Marlin Mod 336 can be had for about $400 new, I got my Winchester used, with scope (which I removed) for $300.

[Rafael]

I already have a shotgun. I want the rifle to round things out. You never know when you need something for a longer distance than a shotgun can cover.
Do the bullets for the rifles that everyone has mentioned cost roughly the same? Is there a caliber that I may want to avoid because of high cost ammo?

[rice paddy daddy]

30-30 comes in 20 round boxes, in my area it's about $16 a box. Just a couple of years ago it was $8. :o
The 223 remington that is fired by an AR or Ruger Mini 14 can be had for a range of $6 per 20 (military type full metal jacket) to over $20 for hi-zoot varmint hunting rounds.
The 7.62X39 that's used in SKS and AK47's - my local shop has Romanian FMJ for $6 / 20 rounds.
30 M1 Carbine can go as high as $50 per 50, 30-06 runs about $20 per 20.
The beauty of the 30-30 is it's such a widely used hunting round you can find it just about anywhere.
I would stay away from a pistol caliber lever gun at first. Their effective range is somewhat limited. As a second or third rifle, there is convenience in having a rifle and pistol in the same caliber.
Edited to add: if high price is a factor, stay away from 45/70. When I can find it, it runs $50+ per 20.

[Rafael]

Thanks for the advice gentlemen.

[rice paddy daddy]

Something I didn't think about till right now is the Russian Mosin Nagant. This is a full power battle rifle used by the Russians from 1891 untill the adoption of the AK 47 after WWII. They are bolt action, magazine fed, and hold 5 rounds.
There are thousands available here in the States for right around $100. Ammo is dirt cheap, too. Last year I scored some 1954 Bulgarian military surplus for $49 for a 300 round tin. I bought both of the cans the gun shop had. ;D
The Mosin is a rugged, fool proof rifle that killed many Germans on the Eastern Front.
There are quite a few variations, but the most frequently encountered are the 91/30, a full length rifle, and the M44, a shorter carbine.
Caution: Mosin Nagants are addictive! Once you buy one, you WILL want more.
http://7.62x54r.net
www.russian-mosin-nagant.com

[Mr.B]

I second the Mosin Nagant. I use to collect older surplus rifles. I still have 7 Mosin Nagants of different makes kicking around my place.

Just look around gun shows you can see them sold there for around $120 or less. I see them at local gun shows “on Sale” for $95.

I wouldn’t drop anymore on a Mosin Nagant than $120 with accessories. But then again a rugged combat proven rifle that shoots a full sized rifle round for $120 or less is a deal.

Usually anything more than $120 the dealer is trying to rake you over the coals.

Id go for the M44 Carbine or the 1891/30 Rifle

Good rifles sorry I’m a little bias my fathers side is from that part of the world.


-B

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

Rafael - since you know handguns, I'll assume that you own one in a larger calibre. What about a rifle that eats the same ammo as a handgun that you already own?
For example, the Ruger 44 Carbine. It shoots .44 Magnum more accurately than a handgun and packs almost as must punch as a 12 ga slug at 20 yards.

[docsoos]

All great answers.

Like RPD stated, the .30-30 ammo is available at any Wal-Mart, and even most Mom & Pop's hardware stores. Their cost is much cheaper than other higher-powered rifle rounds, and the terminal ballistics are about equal to a 7.62x39mm AK/SKS round, anyway. Good to about 150-200 yards, if the shooter does his part. ;D

I'm 49 years old, and here's a pic of a 100-yard group I shot (iron-sights) with a short-barreled (16.5") Winchester 94 Trapper I bought about 5 years ago for a collector's item:

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg467/doczeus40/94group.jpg

Needless to say, I was impressed with the Winchester's accuracy, especially in such a short barrel. I doubt any of my Marlin 336's could hold that kind of group. This was shot with factory 150-grain Remington yellow-and-green box ammo, straight off the shelf at Wally-World. I'm always hesitant to buy used guns, but the bore on this particular one was immaculate. I like the solid-top receivers on the Marlins (for weather resistance), but the Winchester's top-angle-eject action is smooth as silk, especially if they're honestly-worn. Just check the bore with a flashlight if you go the used route; as long as the action cycles smooth, it's all good.

One caveat for the Winchester Trapper: the barrel is so short, one can hold it by the grip, at their side, and never come close to hitting the ground as one is walking in the woods. Also, VERY maneuverable in tight spots; can't say that about any of my full-length-barreled Marlins.

It is my only Winchester, since I wanted to have at least ONE Winchester before they closed down their U.S. operations. I think I got a good one. ;)

Good luck on the search, Rafael.

DocSoos

[rAcErRicK]

And besides Doc, and RPD, if it's good enough for John Wayne, it's good enough for anybody. ;D

[Anon001]

I have a Winchester 94. I wouldn't trade it for any other. I use it for varmints and as my deer rifle.

[Rafael]

Rafael - since you know handguns, I'll assume that you own one in a larger calibre. What about a rifle that eats the same ammo as a handgun that you already own?
For example, the Ruger 44 Carbine. It shoots .44 Magnum more accurately than a handgun and packs almost as must punch as a 12 ga slug at 20 yards.

My largest handgun is .45
I dont mind having another caliber.

[WRTN]

I want to get a rifle. I know pistols, but I am not familiar with rifles.
I do not want a rifle for hunting, I want something that is good for defending ones family and property. Versatility would be could, something that would work for short and long range.
Any advice?

Do you have a preference for a bolt action or semi-auto? Looks like lever action has already been covered to some extent. Reloadable ammo or throw away?

In my opinion a CMP Service or Rack grade M1 Garand would meet all the requirements you have. Ammo is about as cheap as can be had at around $75 per 192 round can or enblock clipped and bandoleered ammo.

Another option would be a Savage Model 12 FV in .308 or if max bang for the buck is an issue the Stevens Model 200 in .308 or 3006.

The 3006 is probably one of the most versital rounds out there, capable of shooting every type of bullet from 55 grain sabot bullets to 220 round nose soft points.

The Savage and Stevens rifles are very reasonable in cost, easy to maintain, and very simple to operate/disassemble.

For your SHTF gun, you want to use a VERY commonly used cartridge that will be readily available and easy to buy, trade, or bargain for.

[Rafael]

My preference would be whatever is the most reliable.

[rice paddy daddy]

My preference would be whatever is the most reliable.
Mosin Nagant. ;D
M1 Garands are excellent, but pricey. I paid $600 for a Korean War vet that was rebuilt sometime around 1954. Looks like it was drug behind a jeep, but works fine. Problem with a Garand is finding surplus M2 ball ammo. Commercial 30-06 has a burn rate the Garand was not designed for and will, sooner or later, bend the operating rod. If that happens when you are in deep do-do, I hope you've been trained in The Spirit Of The Bayonet.

[WRTN]

My preference would be whatever is the most reliable.

A Savage Model 12FV in .308 sells for about $500.

A Stevens Model 200 can be had for around $300 give or take.

Rack and Field grade M1 Garands sell for $495 through CMP. Service Grade M1's are $595.

BOTH the Stevens, Savage, and M1 are VERY reliable.

I would have to give the reliability edge to the bolt action for obvious reasons.

I think you would be happy with any of them although the Savage and M1 would be less recoil.

[Wyzyrd]

I must agree about the Moisin-Nagant.

The ones I have shot have been exceptional (the IRS this April has prevented me from getting one, yet)

My 'expert-friends', ex-military snipers who own and have shot many rifles, always refer to the Moisin-Nagant as "the one they swear by vs. at"

[WRTN]

The Mosin-Nagant Model 91/30 in a good choice provided you can find one with a decent bore in good shape. *The Mosin-Nagant M-44 kicks like a team of mules and is NO joy to shoot, not to mention the MONSTER HUGE muzzle flash due to the shorter barrel. *They are cheap though. *Remember that many of these rifles have been fired with ammo using corrosive primers, so be VERY careful about what you *buy. *

[Rafael]

The nagant sounds like an excellent choice, but I wouldn't know what I'm looking at so I could easily end up with junk.

[Mad_Professor]

Springfield armory M1A , match grade if you can afford it.

Get a bunch of 20 rd clips before they ban them again, couple of cases of ammo stored in a GI ammo can, cleaning and reloading supplies.

Still some $$$ left? the Gen III scope mount and a 3 X 9 quality scope (I like leupold or old USA made Redfields)

[Rafael]

The springfield is a bit pricey.

[snake]

The springfield is a bit pricey.
Pricey yes....but an absolute powerhouse that can be counted on, and made in the USA. The .308 round will keep you safe from 2 legged & most 4 legged bad things. I love mine.

[MissouriFree]

Raf,
not sure what cal your revolvers/pistols are but you should consider gfettting you rifle in the same caliber.
I am like RPD. good lever gun is hard hard to bet. I got that and a revolver in 357 that I can apractice with 38 specials.

[Rafael]

My pistols are .45 and 9mm. Why would I want a rifle that fires such a comparatively powerless round?
Also, what is the advantage of a lever gun?

[rice paddy daddy]

My pistols are .45 and 9mm. Why would I want a rifle that fires such a comparatively powerless round?
Also, what is the advantage of a lever gun?
Used Winchester 94 - $300
New Marlin 336 - about $400
My 1994 Springfield Armory M1A with USGI parts - $1600 used. Good magazines - $35+ (each)
Need more?
A lever rifle gives you the advantage of firing mutiple aimed shots faster than a bolt action at a fraction of the cost of a good semi automatic, with the exception of an AK.
The 30-30 round can be found almost anywhere ammo is sold, and will kill anything on the continent. Ok, it may be a stretch for grizzlies.
Lever rifles are dependable. Been killin things that need killin since 1864. Can knock around in a saddle scabbard or behind the seat of your pickup for years and still go bang when you squeeze the trigger.
With a round in the chamber and the action closed, you can still top off a partially full magazine.
Most are short, light, fast handling, and easy to carry.
I personally would not get one in a pistol caliber, unless I already had one in 30-30.
I do not know your financial situation, or whether you live in a city, suburbs, or out in the boonies. If you have several thousand dollars in expendable income, then by all means buy an M1A and 8 or 10 magazines plus web gear to haul them, and a couple thousand rounds of 7.62 NATO. Of course, for that kind of investment, you really should have a gun safe, fireproof, of course. Add a couple thousand more.
Me? A Winchester 30-30 would get the job done around my small homestead.
I do have an M1A, simply because an inheritance gave me the cash to aford one, and I've wanted one since I carried an M14 in the Army. But I got along fine for over 30 years without one. ;D

[snake]

Your maximum shooting distance should have some bearing on what to get. Ur handguns, and shotgun will take care of the in close stuff. I have a Remington 700 in .308. Will reach way out there, but....I live in the piney woods section of NW Florida, and except for straight down the main road the most distance I have is about 200 yards w/o killing a pine tree. ;D A 30/30 or .32 Special would be just fine at that close in distance.

[Mr.B]

Been killin things that need killin since 1864.


Thats a great saying! Man I have to use that someday.

-B

[Rafael]

For distance I would like something that can reach out and touch someone at 500 yds if the need would arise.

[snake]

For distance I would like something that can reach out and touch someone at 500 yds if the need would arise.
Cheap = the Mosin-Nagant will do. AK types get a little wild a 500 yards. A good .30 cal lever gun should be OK also. From there it's how much you want to spend as stated before.

[WRTN]

A Savage Model 12FV in .308 sells for about $500. *

A Stevens Model 200 can be had for around $300 give or take. *

Rack and Field grade M1 Garands sell for $495 through CMP. *Service Grade M1's are $595. *

BOTH the Stevens, Savage, and M1 are VERY reliable. *

I would have to give the reliability edge to the bolt action for obvious reasons. *

I think you would be happy with any of them although the Savage and M1 would be less recoil.

Rafael, again I refer you to the above. ANY of these rifles will do what you are wanting at a very reasonable price, with very commonly available ammo, and be VERY reliable.

[Rafael]

Cool.
So I have a choice of several that I should be able to get for about $500 or less.

[WRTN]

Cool.
So I have a choice of several that I should be able to get for about $500 or less.

Shop around. Check the auctions on Gun Broker. You can usually find some nice guns at a very reasonable price.

[Jared]

Here's my suggestion: 30-06. That round has the largest selection of bullet weights of any gun. You can handload all the way down to 100 grains and all the way up to 200. Super common, so you can get ammo literally anywhere that stocks ammo. My suggestion would be to check out the Marlin XL7, Mossberg ATR or a Stevens 200. The Mossbergs have gotten rave reviews, and last I saw they were around 300 bucks. If I didn't already have a 30-30, I'd get one of those. Bolt actions are very simple to take down and clean. Some lever actions are scary. Luckily, my Marlin is very simple as far as internal parts go. I got a 30-30 because I wanted one, plain and simple. But for someone who's willing to take a suggestion, 30-06 is the way to go.
Jared

[rice paddy daddy]

Especially if the intended distance is 500 yards. A 30-30 is limited to half that, or less.
Of course, shooting someone at that distance would only apply after a total breakdown of society. Pretty hard to claim self defense at that range.

[Rafael]

I'd call it a warning shot.

[rice paddy daddy]

M1A, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, several Mosins, K98 Mauser, 1903A3 Springfield, AK47, SKS, and civilian stuff ranging from 22 Hornet to 45/70. ;D
Of course, there's shotguns and hand guns too. ;)
At one time we had a good bonus program at work, and the wife understood that the bonus was not part of the household account. Gosh, I love that woman! :D

[Rafael]

rpd,
I'm never coming to your house without calling first. ;D

[High_Desert]

That question is a lot like asking "what's a good woman like"; guarrantied to produce and avalanche of personal opinions. *

So true, with the added bonus that most gun guys are excedingly polite as evidenced by this thread.

One rifle to 500 yards? A .308 bolt action.

If you like to read, I would recomend the book, "To ride, shoot straight and speak the truth" by Jeff Cooper. In there he talks about the ideal "one rifle", home defence, mind set and other very interesting subjects. You will have to order it as barnes and noble won't carry it.
I promise you will enjoy the book.

Best Regards,
HD

[rice paddy daddy]

rpd,
I'm never coming to your house without calling first. ;D
If you are ever in the area, stop in for some trigger time. ;D
US #1 runs north out of Jacksonville, and you'll find me not far from where it crosses into Georgia.
The invitation holds for any of my friends here at BHM.

[Rafael]

Thanks for invite!
I'll definitely take you up on it when I'm in the area....and I am certainly calling first.

[Country_Mike]

Please don't dismiss pistol caliber lever guns out of hand. One that shoots 44mag or 45colt will be more powerful than you might think. Just skip the cowboy loads and get regular stuff. Makes a good short range gun.

I believe you are in California? That may cut your possibilities down a bit. Have fun looking.

[ArmySGT.]

If you are ever in the area, stop in for some trigger time. ;D
US #1 runs north out of Jacksonville, and you'll find me not far from where it crosses into Georgia.
The invitation holds for any of my friends here at BHM.


Thanks for the invite.
Do I need to be from a New England state and of retirement age to enter the State? :P

[cmdan]

I was thinking of an SKS, still not too expensive and last I checked the ammo was cheap in large quantities. But then I got my Yellowboy 66 (45 Long Colt) and love it, but have some trouble finding ammo for it. I reload now and use it mainly for Cowboy shooting, but still love shooting it. Very fun/easy rifle.

[Rafael]

What is "cowboy shooting"?

[rice paddy daddy]

What is "cowboy shooting"?
This is a shooting sport where the participants dress up in cowboy and other western costumes and fire weapons made prior to 1900, or replicas thereof. It has become a big deal, which has created a big market for replicas. This is good for guys like me who do not participate, but love the old time weapons.
I could not afford $1500+ for a genuine Colt Single Action Army, but have been able to buy quality replicas made by Uberti for less than $450.
There's a whole branch of the firearms tree that makes, buys and shoots revolvers, shotguns and rifles that are replicas of the Wild West guns. Go to
www.cascity.com
and check it out.
I'm a double barrel shotgun, lever action rifle, single action revolver lovin fool! ;D

[cmdan]

otgun, lever action rifle, single action revolver lovin fool! ;D


I hear ya pard!
A friend of mine invited me to go with him to his shooting match and I've been hooked ever since. ;)

[MissouriFree]

Having revolver and rifle in the same caliber didn't start with today's cowboys shooters.
Historically it was the way it was in the west/

[shingman]

I have a Remington 870 that I converted over to a assault shot gun. short barrel-shroud--pistol grip--shell carrier on side. Please be aware that if you have a neighbor close to you when you shoot at a bad guy with a rifle it could go thru the walls into their house and hurt someone. This is my opinion!

[spyderhead]

I have both an AR (Bushmaster) and an AK (Arsenal), but for my main rifle, I depend on my Saiga .308. Don't read much about Saigas here for some reason, but I have had them for years and found the platform to be equally reliable, dependable and accurate (for me). Have them in 12 gauge, .410, 7.62 x 39, and .308. Nothing like having 12 rounds of 00 buck at hand!!!

[ArmySGT.]

I have a Remington 870 that I converted over to a assault shot gun. short barrel-shroud--pistol grip--shell carrier on side. Please be aware that if you have a neighbor close to you when you shoot at a bad guy with a rifle it could go thru the walls into their house and hurt someone. This is my opinion!

Be aware that your buckshot and slugs will do the same.

[Tuckahoe]

A good rifle to me is one that I can shoot very well. A good rifle feels good in your arm it fits you like a glove and your finger is natural on the trigger. A good rifle is 100% dependable. A rifle that I think of more like a good friend than just steel and wood. A rifle that I would never part with. A good rifle will do it's part if I do mine. I have owned more rifles than I can recall. The ones I remember the best were always the most accurtate here are a few that I consider good rifles

Winchester model 70 in 30/06 made in 1965
Ruger 22/77 .22 rimfire
Remington Target Master .22 rimfire
Remington Sendero .300 win mag 4.5-14 Leupold scope
W.G. Bill Large .50 muzzleloader

[gunsmoke]

FN FAL

Light poeerful accurate easy to maintain and an abidant supply of spare magazines and parts at one time or another the main battle rifle of every nation in the free world except the U S.

They and their parts are everywhere and plentidul and relatively inexpensive. Second most prolific military rifle to the AK. Not nearly as finickly as the M14 series.

[Rafael]

I believe the FAL is illegal in calif.

[essayons4791]

Hey, just came acroos this thread- been off the forum for awhile.

My thoughts?

Savage 110 (30/06) hunting, AK/SKS all around, Mosin is also a very good choice for really cheap. Just look down the barrel- if it's nice and shiny, it should be alright.

I'm kind of prejudiced towards the East Bloc stuff- that stuff just works when everything else quits. If you're interested, I lay out my philosophy in the thread "Basic firearms battery you can count on".

But there are lots of great guns.

[CountryGuy]

Rafeal,

So have you settled on something or are you still in the market? I was curious if you settled on something or if you are still in the market.