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kenfagan
03-03-2009, 09:16 PM
i am fairly new to lever action rifles, this will be the first lever action i own, i am going to get a marlin (or possibly glenfield if i get a good deal), in either 30-30 or 35 rem, i will be using it mostly for deer, but possibly for black bear, i was leaning toword the 30-30, bacause of the current state of things as far as guns are concerned, the 30-30 being more commercially availiable in both factory cartridges and component brass.
ken

Watonga_Jim
03-04-2009, 12:19 AM
Marlin has produced so many 30-30 lever guns, that finding a good deal on one shouldn't be hard. The 35 Remington offers a little more knockdown power but ammo costs and availability do favor the 30-30. I currently have a Marlin 30-30 that was purchased in the 60's and it still looks and works like new.

kawalekm
03-04-2009, 12:32 AM
Hi Ken
Here's the next lever gun that I want to get.
http://www.notpurfect.com/main/puma.html
If you want, you can shoot .45Colt cowboy loads for light target practice, or load up .454 Casull rounds that generate up to 2800 foot pounds of energy! Rabbits to buffalo with one gun!
Michael

Watonga_Jim
03-04-2009, 12:54 AM
Michael

That is a good looking gun and one I wouldn't mind having. *I bet it comes with a pretty good price tag and I'm still saving pennies after I sprung for a Marlin lever action in 38/357 recently.

Jim

seafarer
03-04-2009, 01:25 AM
Another important thing is that the 30/30 or 35 remington for that matter will shoot lead bullets. Wheel weights are usually free for the asking or cheap if not. Lee Engineering has bullet molds for the different .30 cal rounds. They even have two for the 7.62X39 for all you AK or SKS fans.

Those who do not pour their own bullets might want to get into it soon.
A good reason to use the .45ACP round is that the lead bullets will approximate the terminal ballistics of the hardball round.

DM
03-04-2009, 01:45 PM
If i was buying it for a hunting gun, i'd take the 35 and run! If i was buying it and was thinking of it as a survival gun, i'd get the 30-30...

Either way, i'd be a Marlin...

DM

gwhilikerz
03-05-2009, 06:09 PM
I'll take the 30-30. Ammo is cheaper and more available. But then I prefer a Win. 94 to the Marlin. Guns are always subject to personal preferences.

retrieverman
03-05-2009, 11:16 PM
Lets just say that I own 4 Marlin 336 30-30's...

duckidaho
03-08-2009, 09:12 PM
I'd vote for the Marlin 30-30 if I was just looking for a deer gun. I just bought a Marlin 1895 lever in 45-70, but I live in Idaho and hunt elk and maybe black bear. I definately wouldn't use a 30-30 on an elk. If I see a pretty Marlin 336 with a Walnut stock in 30-30 someday, I'd probably buy that too. Just cause I like em.

Tim Horton
03-09-2009, 01:02 AM
Howdy

Congrats everyone on the new toys....... Lucky people.

To kinda apply to this and another thread about 30-30/30-06, I do have to say this.

When I was a kid, I saw my Grandpa and his buddy (both WW1 vets) and several of my crazy uncles, kill as many elk with 30-30s than any other caliber. Granted they chose there shots and distances wisely. Grandpa was right handed, his buddy Fritz, shot left handed. I saw them stand back to back shooting from either side of the same pine tree.

I would say it is still pretty useful.

Wyo

joshtaylor
04-30-2009, 04:28 PM
I just bought a marlin rc 336 a few weeks ago. Looks like my story is the same as a lot of other people's. I wanted an all purpose rifle I could hunt with, play with, and if it came to it...use to protect myself with. The lever action 30-30 just seemed like the all around best deal. I got it for a little over $300, which in my area is the best deal I could find here in my area. It's old, but it shoots great!

Fortyfour
05-02-2009, 02:54 AM
Its tough to go wrong with a 30-30 Marlin! *From deer and bear, even elk, they are a great platform for a great cartridge. *I like cast bullets in the 30-30 myself, the 311041, specifically! *10grs Unique for 1500fps or a heavy load of 3031 for 2,000fps and GREAT accuracy and killing ability. *A great GREAt do-all combination. *

I'm a real .44 man. But it would be tough to go wrong with a .30-30 as a main homestead caliber. And as a lefty leverguns just feel 'right'. Older Winchesters are great and the newer Marlins are great too. I'm a big fan of long necks for cast bullets and the 30-30 case is perfect!

FF

Tuckahoe
06-18-2009, 06:31 PM
When Winchester dropped the 94 the price of them went way up. I got a new Marlin 336 last year for $289 plus tax. I would without a doubt go with the 30-30 over the .35 just based on the fact that you can buy ammo in more places. Many country stores here stock 30-30 but you would be hard pressed to find a box of .35

gunsmoke
08-21-2009, 08:04 AM
If limited to one I'd definitly go with the .35 and stock up on Lever Revolution 200s for deer and Buffalo Bore 225s for Bear and Hawgs!

rice paddy daddy
08-21-2009, 12:13 PM
One of our two local gunshops has Marlin 336 package deals with scope for less than $500. This is in a one stoplight town of 2000 people, so larger areas may have better deals.
I picked up a straight stock 336 (Texan) several years ago for $100, and when Winchester closed down I finally got around to getting a 94, $300 used.
Both are excellent rifles.

jim
08-21-2009, 01:28 PM
I use Remington 150 gr. high-speed factory loads at near 2400fps. Most Marlins will keep them in an 18" circle at 400 yds.

jim

hunter63
08-21-2009, 02:02 PM
I use Remington 150 gr. high-speed factory loads at near 2400fps. Most Marlins will keep them in an 18" circle at 400 yds.

jim

Congrats, on your skill and your rifle, and the amount of work that you have put into it.

BUT, for most people, with most Marlins, with most ammo, I don't believe that statement for a second.
Target hold would have to be about 4 ft over the target.


http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Chart_C/AMMUNITION+BALLISTICS+FOR+.30-.30+Winchester

WRTN
08-21-2009, 04:01 PM
If I was going to get a lever action rifle, I think I would want one that covers ALL uses and even some special uses and get one of the Marlin Model 1895 or Model 444 lever rifles. They shoot HUGE water melons for bullets and have phenominal knock down AND killing power.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/bigbore/1895.asp

Ammo will be EXPENSIVE but if you reload, should make the price much more reasonable.

backlash
08-21-2009, 06:54 PM
My next gun will be a Henry.
I have always wanted a lever action .22 with an octagon barrel.
Henry makes some nice guns in larger calibers but I really don't need another big gun.
American made and great factory support.
backlash

wbo3
08-21-2009, 11:17 PM
The very first firearm I bought for myself when I turned 18 was a Marlin 30AW, the Walmart version of the 336. I think it was around $175 and it came with a sling. Of course that was 20 years ago. I have told my wife many times over that if we were ever in dire circumstances that I would get rid of all the rest of my rifles before that one. Mine is a .30-30, but I think that is all the Walmart one came in. I will add a .35 one day to the stable, and I would LOVE to have some or all of marlin's newer, heavier calibers such as the .308 and the .388 marlin Express rounds. Perhaps the best addition will be one chambered in .38/.357 to match my revolvers. Whatever lever action you choose and whatever caliber, it is hard to beat their versatility and durability. Just last summer I was given the opportunity to shoot my grandfathers 1951 Winchester 94, and I used some VERY old Federal ammo that was purchased sometime shortly before he died in 1972. Both performed flawlessly. Can't ask much more than that.

cornhusker
08-26-2009, 12:16 PM
My next gun will be a Henry.
I have always wanted a lever action .22 with an octagon barrel.
Henry makes some nice guns in larger calibers but I really don't need another big gun.
American made and great factory support.
backlash

We just ordered a Henry Golden Boy in .22, with the octagon barrel.
Should be here tomorrow. :)

CountryGuy
09-07-2009, 04:22 PM
I'm new here so here goes my first post.

I do love my lever guns. I was 11 when my Dad gave me my first one for deer hunting, a Rossi in .357mag with open sights. One of my cousins got the same rifle but chambered in .44mag, one of these days I'm gonna see if he still has it and if he would like to part with it so I can have a matching set.
In high school, Dad would let me borrow his scoped Glenfield 30-30 which was a nice change up from iron sights. I took many deer with both guns and both are still at the folks in the safe. In our family I remember almost all of my uncles and cousins used lever actions for deer and were either in 30-30 and 30-06.

When I was first in the Navy (Seabees) at my first duty station, my roommate had a new Marlin 336CS in 30-30 that he wanted to sell to get some quick money. So $150 bucks later I had a new rifle that had less that a box of shells thru it. Only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the shrouded front sight as it tends to sometimes get small branches caught in it while going thru brush. But it too has proven to be a deer slayer.

I think my next lever gun might be a Mossberg 464. I've seen one of these at a shop and liked the finish and the action seemed very smooth. However the price also seemed high.

I saw several people mention the Winchester 94's. I don't know if this is out yet so hopefully it doesn't get anyone in trouble, but I have a buddy that works for FN in South Carolina. About a yr ago he was telling me they were in the process of redesigning and tooling up to begin production on the 1894. So if it isn't out it sounds like it won't be long until it's back on the market. Hopefully this will also help drive down the price on the other lever guns on the market.

So to me the lever gun is simple, practical and extremely functional for putting meat on the table as well as for defending your homestead if need be. Personally I have other weapons I rely on for defense and reserve my lever guns for hunting only.

I wanted to ask, has anyone tried any of the Hornady LEVERevolution ammo? If so what were your experiences and results? I've been thinking about picking some up to see if it improves range and accuracy.

jim
10-11-2009, 01:57 AM
Congrats, on your skill and your rifle, and the amount of work that you have put into it.

BUT, for most people, with most Marlins, with most ammo, I don't believe that statement for a second.
Target hold would have to be about 4 ft over the target.


http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Chart_C/AMMUNITION+BALLISTICS+FOR+.30-.30+Winchester

You are absolutely correct, and I would never try those shots at anything but an enert target at the range.

This .30-30 belonged to my dad, and came with a scope. I traded him a Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag for it. Whoever mounted the scope (a 3X9 {8^O) had discarded the elevation piece in the center of the rear sight. I removed the scope, and went to a local gunsmith, and he gave me one out of a bunch of spares he had. It was pure luck, but the first four notches coincided very closely with the POI for every 100 yds out to 400 yds. I found this out when I took it to Hill Country Rifle Range outside of Austin, Texas to zero it. Using the Remington HS 150 load, this rifle will hit the gong out to the 425 yard line every time IF I let the bbl cool about 1 min. between shots.

This has been done in front of witnesses many times over the last 15 years or so. I have people that can verify that the gun can do this every time. Now, is this even useful for anything other than winning bets at the range? NO! I can't judge range effectively enough to even use this accuracy. Besides, the energy at these extreme ranges is pitiful, and I'd never use it on an animal. They deserve the respect of being taken with an adequate load.

jim

It is fun to do, and I've surprised more than a few high power rifle shooters over the years.

Tuckahoe
10-13-2009, 03:24 AM
I now own a Winchester 94 and a Marlin 336. There are things I like about both but as far as the caliber there is nothing that walks the NC woods that a 30/30 will not kill.

jim
10-13-2009, 05:47 PM
I now own a Winchester 94 and a Marlin 336. There are things I like about both but as far as the caliber there is nothing that walks the NC woods that a 30/30 will not kill.

Which got me to thinking: I'm interested in using a .30-30 for wild hogs. Would I be better off handloading a 180 gr. RNSP or just stick with the 170 gr. FP? Perhaps even a premium 150 gr. slug with one in the chamber and one in the mag tube.

jim

Kilroy
10-13-2009, 07:03 PM
I've taken three hogs here in the NC mountains as well as one bear with the Marlin 30/30. The 150 grain bullet placed right dropped the hogs about three steps after impact. The bear took two rounds in the lungs. One hunting shot and one when he stood up and showed his displeasure with my choice of target:rolleyes: Should have used something bigger on that bastard.

I still use the 150 grain for deer, hogs, coyotes, etc. A bigger bullet won't hurt, but the trajectory and aim point will be different, so put some range time in before hunting time.

DM
10-17-2009, 02:32 PM
Which got me to thinking: I'm interested in using a .30-30 for wild hogs. Would I be better off handloading a 180 gr. RNSP or just stick with the 170 gr. FP? Perhaps even a premium 150 gr. slug with one in the chamber and one in the mag tube.

jim

The "ultimate" hunting "bullet" for a 30-30, is the 170 Nosler Partition, and Federal factory loads it. (Nosler also sells the bullet as a component)

NP's are the hunting bullets all others are compared to, and Nosler makes that 170 just for 30-30 velocities. It would absolutely be my choise in 30-30 ammo for bear or other "tough to bring down" animals.

DM

gunsmoke
10-17-2009, 09:39 PM
Which got me to thinking: I'm interested in using a .30-30 for wild hogs. Would I be better off handloading a 180 gr. RNSP or just stick with the 170 gr. FP? Perhaps even a premium 150 gr. slug with one in the chamber and one in the mag tube.

jim

Just JMHO FWIW but I've never used anything but the Winchester 170 Silvertip in my pre-64 Win 94. That is what it is sighted in with and shoots them beautifully. They are the penetration kings as far as the .30-30 is concerned.

I admire and use the NP as well in other calibers but realize the front half of that bullet is designed to blow apart on meeting light resistance. The partition copied from Rottweil's "H-MANTLE" designedd of course is to facilitate penetration of what is left. On lighter animals like deer this is no downside, but I'm more comfortable with stouter bullets for heavier muscled animals like hog.

I've never failed to have a through and through with the 170 Solvertip in anything I've shot with it.

The LeverRevolution is fine stuff for deer and siminlar size animals.

flatwater
10-17-2009, 11:33 PM
6 of one and half a dozen of another , ya won't go wrong with any of them. The old 94 was and is a great gun. I have always liked the looks of the marlin better, I own a 45/70 lever marlin. As far as shooting them much over 200 yards with any amount of accuracy I'd have to go along with Hunter63

DM
10-18-2009, 04:26 AM
Just JMHO FWIW but I've never used anything but the Winchester 170 Silvertip in my pre-64 Win 94. That is what it is sighted in with and shoots them beautifully. They are the penetration kings as far as the .30-30 is concerned.

I admire and use the NP as well in other calibers but realize the front half of that bullet is designed to blow apart on meeting light resistance. The partition copied from Rottweil's "H-MANTLE" designedd of course is to facilitate penetration of what is left. On lighter animals like deer this is no downside, but I'm more comfortable with stouter bullets for heavier muscled animals like hog.

I've never failed to have a through and through with the 170 Solvertip in anything I've shot with it.

The LeverRevolution is fine stuff for deer and siminlar size animals.

The partition copied from Rottweil's "H-MANTLE" ? When did the H mantle come on the market??? As i'm not so sure it came to be, before the NP. I don't think John Nosler copied anyone...

Also, the nose of the NP is what makes that bullet better than all others. It expands fast in lighter animals, yet the partition will drive on through tough animals. It doesn't matter to me that the silver tip penetrates well, as any "hard" bullet will do that, but those hard bullets "won't" also expand well in a lighter resistance target! This is why all bullets are compared to the NP, they are the best of both worlds.

BTW, the NP's have worked a lot better for me than the H mantles i've tried did.

DM

gunsmoke
10-19-2009, 04:52 AM
I consulted my library of catalogs and the earliest mention of the H-MANTLE was in a 1921 catalogtouted in 9.3 and 10.75mm for African Plains game, It was diest mentioned in 1926 in 7.92 JS and JRS and 1927 in 7X57R.

The bullets alone have been cataloged since the 1930s for handloaders.

I don't think Nosler produced ANYTHING pre-WWII.

Just curious, what caliber(s) and game animals hve you used H-MANTLEs on and in what respect did you find them disappointing?

I've never seen a silver tip not expand even on small dear well-under 200lbs on the hoof.

I have been using the TUG H-MANTLE in both 8x57 and 9.3x64 since the 1970s and their weight retention far outpaces the NP any day of the week running in excess of 90% consitently while I've never had an NP exceed 65% and that was a .375 300 grainer. They also have extraordinary consistency in weight and concentricity. Of course at their price you would expect precision.

The H-MANTLE's soft mild steel reverse taper jacket as opposed to the more brittle thinner jacket of the NP greatly improves slower expansion and deeper penetration and thus a much greater permanent wound channel.

DM
10-19-2009, 12:43 PM
I consulted my library of catalogs and the earliest mention of the H-MANTLE was in a 1921 catalogtouted in 9.3 and 10.75mm for African Plains game, It was diest mentioned in 1926 in 7.92 JS and JRS and 1927 in 7X57R.

The bullets alone have been cataloged since the 1930s for handloaders.

I don't think Nosler produced ANYTHING pre-WWII.

Just curious, what caliber(s) and game animals hve you used H-MANTLEs on and in what respect did you find them disappointing?

I've never seen a silver tip not expand even on small dear well-under 200lbs on the hoof.

I have been using the TUG H-MANTLE in both 8x57 and 9.3x64 since the 1970s and their weight retention far outpaces the NP any day of the week running in excess of 90% consitently while I've never had an NP exceed 65% and that was a .375 300 grainer. They also have extraordinary consistency in weight and concentricity. Of course at their price you would expect precision.

The H-MANTLE's soft mild steel reverse taper jacket as opposed to the more brittle thinner jacket of the NP greatly improves slower expansion and deeper penetration and thus a much greater permanent wound channel.

Your right, if the H-mantle is from the 20's then it predates the NP. I'm still not sure Nosler copied it though, but he surely could have.

Over the 25 years i lived in Alaska, i had a friend who is German, and he would bring the bullets, and sometimes ammo back from Germany. At the time, i was designing "bonded core" bullets, and swageing them for sale. (this was back long before everyone and their brother was doing it) As both my friend and i hunted extensivily all over Alaska, we had plenty of chances to test all kinds of bullets on moose, caribou, brown bear and other big game animals.

I've used H-mantles mostly in 7mm, but also in 9.3 and 30. The reason i don't like them as well as an NP, is because the NP DOES loose it's nose fairly fast, and i find that a plus in killing game faster. BUT, it still leaves plenty of bullet to drive in deep, almost always leaving the "exit hole" that i've found to be a big plus.

I've also seen (for some unexplained reason) an H-mantle just come apart and not give it's best penetration...

DM

jim
10-19-2009, 03:02 PM
Thanks for the info. I trie the Noslers and keep the hunting ranges to my normal 150 yds.

jim

gunsmoke
10-19-2009, 09:30 PM
Interesting news on the H-MANTLE coming apart, since those cores have been soldered since inception. I guess any bullet can be driven fast enough with a fast enough twist to make them explode.

The only bullets I have seen come apaart like that are REMINGTON CORE-LOKTs and then in relaatively mild .32 Win Spec .35 REN and 9mm Lugar this was all 30_ years ago and I havem't touched a remington produced bullet since with the single exception of their .429 240 gr SJHP which I handload in .44 Spec. and which expand consistently and do not separate. About 10 years ago I loaded a doz or so in a .444 Marlin to see if I could drive them to seperation, nut they didn't. The dual cannelure on those particular bullets might help.

DM
10-20-2009, 02:24 AM
I guess "comeing apart" was a poor choise of words on my part, making it sound like the core seperated. But, as i remember the bullet broke up, at least that's what i remember happening, as it has been many years and thousands of bullets ago.

I haven't fired an H mantle bullet in at least 25 years... NP's have worked so well for me for an "all around bullet", that it's been my "go to bullet" for at least that long now.

For DG, i tryed many different cartridges and rifles, i settled on a .338-06 for my tracking down big bears, and they give a bullet a pretty good test. I spend a lot of time hunting them, so i built a "go to" gun, that i carried just for that job. I liked to keep it loaded with 275 Speers, and i never had one fail on me, even on close in tough shots mopping up someone elses mistake. Those Speers expanded well, and would shoot corner to corner even on a big bear, breaking bone all the way, and then exiting. Just what i like to see.

DM

Tuckahoe
10-20-2009, 01:41 PM
The 30-30 is still far from retirement. With all the new calibers around it remains a top seller. The price for a marlin and the mossberg remain high based on demand. The 30-30 is as American as John Wayne and Apple Pie.

gunsmoke
10-21-2009, 12:20 PM
The 30-30 is still far from retirement. With all the new calibers around it remains a top seller. The price for a marlin and the mossberg remain high based on demand. The 30-30 is as American as John Wayne and Apple Pie.

The >30-30 is a good solid cartridge for 90% of North American game and the variety of ammunition and bullets that have come on the market in recent years is solid proof of its popularity and market viability.

Back in the '70s Nosler produced a pair of 150 and 170 Boat-Tailed "SOLID BASE" flat points for the .30-30. Ihave a bunch of the 170's loaded in a variety of calibers but primarily for my Marlin 336 ADLs. Tose were some seriously fine bullets! Nosler discontinued them in the '80s and I bought all I could find and have a good stash of them for my loading bench. The cores were bonded and they expanded rapidly and because of the very thick solid base penetrated like crazy.

I even loaded the 170 in .308 at around 2500 for a low-recoil load in my FN FALs. I shot two 400+lb hawgs with that load and you wouldn't believe the sizze of the exit holes on both those hawgs. Serious stuff!


I do like the heavier NPs my std load for my FALs and Galils are 180gr NPs, loaded between 2500-2600 they expand really nicely and penetrate well.

AZTimT
10-25-2009, 01:17 AM
My next gun will be a Henry.
I have always wanted a lever action .22 with an octagon barrel.
Henry makes some nice guns in larger calibers but I really don't need another big gun.
American made and great factory support.
backlash

I'm a huge lever fan and I agree. I just picked up new Henry .22 Magnum not long ago and it is a very nice shooting gun. The action is smoother than my Win 1894, Savage 99e, Cimarron 1892 and my BLR .308. It's got me tempted to find a Henry 30-30 now. :)

AZTimT
10-25-2009, 06:16 AM
I forgot to mention that I was agreeing about Henry's customer service/support. I bought the last one at the store I got it from and it had been on display a long time. I believe this was due to someone dropping it on the toe of the stock where a couple small cracks showed up somewhere along the way. I got a good enough deal on it to take the risk on Henry's support. Well, I am very impressed as they called me the next morning after I emailed them and they sent out a replacement stock absolutely free of charge without even asking for any evidence beyond my word. That's the kind of service that you just don't find much of anymore. They've got a customer for life as long as things don't change on their end.