Good hamburger buns?

[homemade_mamma]

Hi! I would like to make my own buns for hamburgers and hotdogs. I have tried just my regular bread recipe and they turned out so so. Does anyone have any advice on a better recipe? And a good technique in making them? My husband just isn't going for these buns I made tonight ::)

[Shamrock1121]

Any enriched bread dough (contains some fat, egg, or dairy) will make hamburger and hot dog buns, it's not necessarily to use a special recipe. *Add some honey (1 T.) to aid in getting a darker crust, common to buger/dog buns. *Commercial buns have an inordinate amount of sugar as well as extra yeast to compensate for the extra sugar that affects the yeast, to get that dark brown top. *

I make all my burger and dog buns using whatever type of dough I happen to be making for bread (usually 100% whole wheat bread).

Did you pat the ball of dough for the burger buns to about 1/2-inch thickness before allowing it to rise? *That's how you get the "bun" shape.

You'll also get "softer" burger buns if you use all-purpose flour instead of bread flour.

I scale (weigh on a kitchen/food scale) the dough to 2-ounces (3-oz. for large ones) for each bun so they are equal in size. *They raise at the same rate and bake in the same amount of time if you make them the same size. *Pat the dough to 1/2-inch thickness and place on a parchment-lined cookie sheet.

I do use one trick for burger buns, but it's not necessary. *I have two pans for muffin tops (looks like this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CFN2C) and these pans give the hamburger buns a little structure. *Otherwise just place them on a cookie sheet, but give them plenty of room between buns. *I also have a pan similar to the muffin top pans, but the holes are smaller and it makes 12 small buns on it. *Perfect for buffet use, or when you need a small party sandwich.

For hot dog buns, a general rule of thumb is to roll the log of dough about the same size as the hot dog, sausage or "brat" you are going to serve on it.

To make a pan of hot dog buns for regular-size hot dogs, I use disposable foil pans (8-1/4x5-1/4x1-inch). *You can get 4-5 hot dog buns in each pan.

I also have 6-1/2x10-1/2-inch cake pans that works for a pan of hot dog buns. I also scale the dough so that the buns are equal-sized. *You want the buns to lay the short width of the pan, not the long way. *This is going to give you hot dog buns you need to pull-apart, then slice open.

You can also make individual hot dog buns on a cookie sheet - leave plenty of room between them to double.

I bake mine in small 5-3/4x3-1/2-inch loaf pans - two buns per pan. *With this bun I butterfly the hot dogs open for grilling. *The open hot dog fits perfectly on these buns. *You split these buns from the top down, rather than side-to-side (works well for grilling the inside of the buns with a little butter on them). *Hubby calls these gourmet hot dog buns *;).

I generally make 2-1/2 pounds of dough at a time, so if I use 1- to 1-1/2 pounds of it for a loaf of bread, then I can also make 6 hamburger buns and a few loaf pans of hot dog buns from the same recipe. *I keep the hamburger buns wrapped individually in foil, in the freezer. *I freeze the hot dog buns in twos (since that's how we use them). *I split them after they are completely cool, before I wrap them in foil for the freezer. *I reheat them in a toaster oven, or butter and grill them.

If you have a bread machine (can be made without a bread machine, too), here's one of the most famous recipes for hamburger buns you'll find on the Internet. *I happen to know "Moomie" (aka Ellen).

Moomie's Beautiful Burger Buns

The following recipe created quite a stir when it was first posted on King Arthur Flour's message board.

1 cup water
2 tablespoons butter or margarine
1 egg
3 1/4 cups all-purpose flour *(Can substitute 1 c. with whole wheat flour)
1/4 cup sugar
1 teaspoon salt
1 tablespoon instant yeast (I use SAF-Instant)

INSTRUCTIONS
Place all ingredients in your bread machine. Select dough. Allow to run cycle.

Dump out onto lightly floured surface. Divide into 8-10 pieces. With each piece, slap into a bun shape. Usually four or five slaps will do it. Place on greased cookie sheets or your bun pans, cover; rise about 30 to 40 minutes.

Bake in preheated 375°F oven for 12 to 15 minutes till golden. Cool on wire racks. I like to add a teaspoon of onion powder and about 1/2 teaspoon dried onion to the dough in the bread machine. It makes a light onion-y flavor that is wonderful!

When I do these for burgers, I split the bun, butter, and fry in a skillet till brown. Yummy! They make great sandwich buns too! Nice and soft! You can’t go wrong with this recipe!

If you don’t have a bread machine, simply mix and knead the dough by whatever method you prefer. Let it double in bulk, punch down, before shaping into eight to ten big buns.

-Karen
*

[homemade_mamma]

WOW Karen! Thank you for bun 101 :)
I think my first problem was I smushed down the bread balls too much and they ended up kinda flat like. See I'm not a good bread maker to begin with. Just a bread machine lady right now. So I am excited to get a recipe for the machine!
One question about the yeat. By instant yeast do you mean the quick rise? I only have the regular. How can I change the recipe for that.
I will try this out today, maybe my husband will approve of these. LOL

Debbie

[Shamrock1121]

WOW Karen! *Thank you for bun 101 :)
I think my first problem was I smushed down the bread balls too much and they ended up kinda flat like. *See I'm not a good bread maker to begin with. *Just a bread machine lady right now. *So I am excited to get a recipe for the machine! *
One question about the yeat. *By instant yeast do you mean the quick rise? *I only have the regular. *How can I change the recipe for that.
I will try this out today, maybe my husband will approve of these. LOL

Debbie

Debbie -

I use my bread machine for making nearly all the breads I make. I just don't use it for rising or baking - but I make all our breads and mill the flour I use and use the bread machine for the "work" of kneading.

I try to respect the type of yeast called for in a recipe - it may be the difference between a failure and success ;).

I keep SAF-Instant (http://beprepared.com/product.asp?pn=FP%20Y100&name=SAF%20Instant%20Yeas t&bhcd2=1227036270) and a brand of Active Dry Yeast (what you call "regular" yeast) on hand to cover all my yeast "bases". Each of these types of yeast work differently and can't always be substituted one for the other. But saying all that, I remember people using active dry yeast in Moomie's recipe. The yeast brands that are considered Fast-Acting are: SAF-Instant (be careful because it also comes SAF-ACTIVE DRY YEAST, Quick-Rise, Rapid-Rise, and Bread Machine Yeast.

I think you're husband will LOVE the results using Moomie's recipe. :D I don't make white bread, so my burger buns are a little more "substantial" than the squishy, soft burger buns Moomie's recipe yields.

-Karen

[homemade_mamma]

I had no idea there was other types of yeast like that. I love learning something new! I get most of my staples from my local Amish store. In addition to the active dry they also have the nutritional yeast, that is the only other kind I have heard of. Do you happen to know what that is used for?
Thanks for the link, that is quite the site. I will be ordering some of that yeast, great price! Even better than the Amish.
I am in the process of making the buns with the active dry. I will let you know if they pass the hubby test ;)
Thanks for helping Karen!

Debbie

[Shamrock1121]

I had no idea there was other types of yeast like that. *I love learning something new! * I get most of my staples from my local Amish store. *In addition to the active dry they also have the nutritional yeast, that is the only other kind I have heard of. *Do you happen to know what that is used for?
Thanks for the link, that is quite the site. *I will be ordering some of that yeast, great price! *Even better than the Amish.
I am in the process of making the buns with the active dry. *I will let you know if they pass the hubby test *;)
Thanks for helping Karen!

Debbie

Debbie -

Hope the buns turned out. :)

Brewer's (nutritional) Yeast is a supplement. It is a rich source of minerals (particularly chromium), protein, and the B-complex vitamins. Bakers' Yeast is a different strain and used to leaven bread.

Yeast 101:
Or, how dough rises..... ;)

Natural Leaveners (aka wild yeast starters, sourdough): The yeast strains in starters are different from bakers' yeasts. They work in an acidic medium - the starter. Naturally-occuring yeast colonize in the starter. The starter is fed/renewed with flour and hydrated with water. There are many types and methods of natural leaveners.

Cake Yeast: Also called fresh yeast, or compressed yeast. This is the old-fashioned yeast that came in squares and is found in the refrigerator case (if you can ever find it at all anymore). This type of yeast MUST be proofed (placed in water/sweetener). It is the common yeast used in bread recipes from WWI-WWII.

Cakes of yeast were not all the same size. When converting cakes of yeast to active dry yeast:

*1/4-oz. of active dry yeast = 2/3 oz. of cake yeast

*1-1/4 t. of active dry yeast = 2/3 oz. of cake yeast

*3 packages of active dry yeast weighing 1/4-oz. each equales 2 ounces of cake yeast.

Active Dry Yeast: Developed in 1943. Active Dry Yeast is nearly always proofed (water/sweetener). When proofing yeast, add the yeast to the water, not the water to the yeast. Dumping the water on the yeast can kill some of the gest, so be gentle with your yeast. The temperature of proofing water is 80°-85°F.

Instant & Fast-Rising Yeast: They are the product of genetic engineering and are the "super" yeast. They are air dried instead of oven dried.

They were produced to mix directly with dry ingredients for quicker mixing (no proofing necessary) BUT they can be proofed, if necessary. The water temperature should be warmer than normal proofing water, when the yeast is added to a flour mixture - 125°-130°F. That's because the bulk of ingredients will quickly cool the water temperature.

Using this type of yeast you can use a quick dough method where you eliminate the first rise and let the dough rest for 10-minutes (covered) before forming the dough.

In the 1980's the Automated Bread Machines began to be developed for home use. Yeast companies began to develop fast-acting yeast for use in these machines so they could make a loaf of bread in 1-hour (Quick Cycle). You cannot substitute Active Dry Yeast for Fast-Rising yeast in the Quick Cycle of a bread machine.

When you substitute a Fast-Rising Yeast in a recipe that calls for Active Dry Yeast, reduce the amount by 25%.

Osmotolerant Instant Active Dry Yeast: this yeast is recommended for use in dough that is characterized as sweet, salty or low absorption. This type of yeast is beneficial in certain types of recipes because osmotic tolerance is called for because the amount of available water in these doughs is limited.

-Karen

[homemade_mamma]

Hey, they turned out pretty good if I do say so..yeh! ;D
DH didn't even realize that I had made them. Which is a good thing, because he LOVES his store bought things. (would even rather have store bought frosting! :o
But then again he was eating in the dark, the sun had set by the time I took his food out to the field, and he was really hungry LOL!
Thanks again!

Debbie

[MotherCharlotte]

Thanks for that recipe Karen, I am absolutely going to try it! I have made hamburger buns in the past with bread flour and they didn't seem quite right. But that recipe looks like it will turn out a little more like Wonder Bread buns, which sadly is what my family likes the best. ::)

[fnfredux]

best thing you can add to get lighter textured buns is GLUTEN... I use one tablespoonful to each cup of all purpose flour. It also adds protein I believe. There are only two of us so I make my dough the easy way, in my food processor.
I have discovered that many bread recipes call for too much yeast and no extra gluten, that is why your buns just don't come out like bakery ones.
This is my recipe:
1C all purpose flour (packed)
1 tablespoon gluten
1/2 tsp active dry yeast (I buy by the pound for about $3.00)
1/2 tsp salt
1TBSP BROWN sugar
2TBSP butter (broken into pieces)
about 1/2C warm water (if you want to make special buns, use an egg yolk (only the yolk), put that in the measuring cup then add water to 1/2C mark.
Put all dry ingredients in the food processor run for about 30 sec to blend well, drop in the butter pieces while it's running, gradually add the water or egg yolk/water. Now you must be the judge, depending on the day, your flour, your measuring accuracy you may need to add a little flour or a little water. The mixture will form up a nice soft dough and ball up. Let the machine do your kneading...only about one minute will do. Put the dough in a greased bowl. Let it double, should take around two hours, once again, depends on conditions, warm house more rapid rise, cold house longer. When it has doubled form up your rolls, I treat it pretty rough, it's fine. Put them on a grease or non-stick surface (parchment is best), spray a piece of plastic wrap with no stick cooking spray, drape it over the rolls, let rise up to 2 hrs. they should look light and fluffy. Preheat oven to 350, bake 30-35 minutes. You can make more than one batch of this one right after another and combine them. DON'T try to double this recipe if you want to keep using your food processor. I have found the 1 packed cup (just tap it LIGHTLY with the back of a spoon) to be the limit for smooth running.
This works out best for me, quick, versatile (you can bake it into breadsticks, french style loaves, put it in a loaf pan, make filled breads like spinach bread or cinnamon raisin, and even make pizza, and fried dough. Last week I made it with the egg yolk added two more TBSP of brown sugar and made cheese Danish with it (added filling of course) My family loved it.
It has never failed me yet.
One GIANT hint...when you turn on you oven, put in a ovenproof pot or pan with WATER in it, leave it in there when you bake your bread. The moisture in your oven will make you bread bake MUCH better.

[Shamrock1121]

fnfredux -

Your recipe is one of those great exceptions to the rule....

I have to disagree with your information about adding gluten to all-purpose flour (especially in the large amounts you are adding to flour) and would ask for a reliable source for that information. *It's completely opposite anything I've learned in classes, professional bread books, and college text books on the subject. *

Gluten adds strength. *Too much gluten and you'll end up with a tough crumb, not the tender crumb associated with hamburger buns.

When fat is added - before kneading, or after kneading - also affects the crumb. *Milk in enriched recipes also tenderizes the crumb.

Use of high-gluten bread flour (13-14% protein) is associated with breads like Kaiser Rolls, bagels, French breads, Italian breads, HARD rolls, pizza crust, sub buns (which are more substantial than soft hamburger buns) and croissants, not feather-soft hamburger buns and dinner rolls.

Julia Childs never used anything other than all-purpose flour for her breads. *High-gluten bread flour and vital wheat gluten came into vogue with the bread machine so people could make a reasonable loaf of bread in 1 hour. *Prior to the 1980's everyone managed to make perfectly great bread with nothing more than all-purpose flour.

Even when I mill flour, I get a more tender crumb if a temper my 13.1% protein wheat with some low-gluten grain, like spelt. *

If you are using a National brand of All-Purpose flour (Pillsbury or Gold Medal - 9.5-12% ), or Nothern All-Purpose flour (King Arthur - 13%, Robin Hood & Heckers - 11-12%), they all have MORE than enough gluten to make a yeast bread without additions of vital wheat gluten. *

FYI - one package (or 2-1/4 t.) of yeast will leaven 6-8 cups of flour slowly and 2-3 c. flour fast. *Your recipe actually has a high amount of yeast in the recipe, by normal Baker's Percentages for bread formulas. *

I save additions of vital wheat gluten to help "lighten" heavy loaves of multi-grain breads (where you also use low- or non-gluten flour), and would never suggest it being added to all-purpose or bread flour for white bread. *It's completely unnecessary.

I've used high-protein wheat to experiment with for a local mill (I've milled into flour). *The wheat was 16% protein, which is a LOT of gluten. *It takes an inordanant amount of kneading to develop this much gluten, and additional hydration (gluten soaks up hydration like a sponge). *It also makes a rather "tough" bread, which is why flour is made from a blend of wheat to get a particular protein profile.

-Karen

[Klapton]

Hmmm... I'm a n00b at making my own breads, and I've been having trouble getting a nice, soft crumb. I've been adding gluten, but I've also been trying different blends of whole wheat and bread flours (King Arthur brand).

I'm going to try using all purpose with no extra gluten, and see how it comes out.

I think I also lack patience waiting for it to rise enough too. Everyone uses the word "doubled" in size, but I'm often unsure about how to judge it.

Also... What about "punching down"? When should I or should I not punch it down and re-rise? What's the purpose of this in cases where you should?

[Shamrock1121]

Hmmm... *I'm a n00b at making my own breads, and I've been having trouble getting a nice, soft crumb. *I've been adding gluten, but I've also been trying different blends of whole wheat and bread flours (King Arthur brand).

I'm going to try using all purpose with no extra gluten, and see how it comes out.

I think I also lack patience waiting for it to rise enough too. *Everyone uses the word "doubled" in size, but I'm often unsure about how to judge it.

Also... *What about "punching down"? *When should I or should I not punch it down and re-rise? *What's the purpose of this in cases where you should?

"Double" is the great bread-making mystery ;D. Here's how to solve playing peek-a-boo and guessing. Get a dough rising bucket (http://www.kingarthurflour.com/items/Dough_Rising_Bucket).

Pat your dough into the bucket, place the lid on tight, and you have the perfect environment for rising dough.

I have these in several sizes and normally use a 2-quart one (for 2 to 2-1/2 pounds of dough or less) I got at a restaurant supply store (it's a food storage container with a tight-fitting lid).

It can be round or square - it just needs to have straight sides and a tight-fitting lid. Graduated measurements on the side are handy as well. You can even use an old Ice Cream bucket. You'll just have to measure the dough with a ruler and place a piece of masking tape on the container to indicate where "double" is. Be sure to remember if the top of the tape, or the bottom, is where the dough will be double...

If a recipe makes 1 quart of dough, when it blooms to 2 quarts, it's doubled .... WOO HOO! No guessing. When it's in a straight-sided food storage container, it's easier to detect "double" than in a slant-sided bowl where the top is larger than the bottom. The old poke-it-with-your-fingers method is completely unreliable.

Punching down is important. Here's how you PUNCH DOWN. With oiled hands, gently drive your your fist through the middle of the risen dough. Now grab the outside of the dough and pull it to the middle. Do this all the way around the dough. What you have essentially done is to turn the dough inside out. So the cooler outside dough is now to the inside of the dough, and the warmer inside dough is to the outside.

Punching down de-gasses the dough and also breaks down the clumps of yeast and redistributes them.

Once the dough is punched down, dump it out onto the counter. I use a Silpat for forming dough - NO FLOUR necessary - easy clean-up.

If your dough is enough for more than one loaf, now is the time to divide the dough into equal portions by scaling the dough on a kitchen scale. Equal amounts of dough will rise and bake in the same amount of time.

Because cutting the dough leaves jagged edges where the gasses in the dough can escape, you now need to ROUND the dough and allow it to rest before shaping.

Once again, with oiled hands, tuck the dough into a tight smooth ball (cup the dough with your hands and smooth it from the top to the bottom - while it sits on the counter or Silpat - you'll smooth and move the dough ball around until it's nice and smooth.

Cover the dough (I use the bowl or a sheet of plastic wrap) and allow the gluten to relax for 10-15 minutes before forming.

These are steps many people are never taught, and never found in recipes, that can make a lot of difference in your finished product.

-Karen

[fnfredux]

Trust me, the recipe works. I do believe the addition of the egg yolk makes a big difference, a softer dough. Most of the time when you add egg WHITE to anything it greatly toughens it.
This is an all purpose recipe. To get a hard crust on the rolls or bread, they should be misted with water right before putting them in the oven.
I'm 60 years old, might've been making bread and rolls *the hard way for 40 years or so. Don't care what the reason, what works works. I now bake bread or rolls just about daily instead of as a treat. Check your bread labels, I do believe most breads (including soft ones like wonder if it's bread) do include gluten.

[Shamrock1121]

Trust me, the recipe works. I do believe the addition of the egg yolk makes a big difference, a softer dough. Most of the time when you add egg WHITE to anything it greatly toughens it.
This is an all purpose recipe. To get a hard crust on the rolls or bread, they should be misted with water right before putting them in the oven.
I'm 60 years old, might've been making bread and rolls *the hard way for 40 years or so. Don't care what the reason, what works works. I now bake bread or rolls just about daily instead of as a treat. Check your bread labels, I do believe most breads (including soft ones like wonder if it's bread) do include gluten.

Ah, heck, you've only got a few years on me... * ;)

I judge foods at County Fairs. *I've been trained in bread science, which includes the ingredients and baking methods, etc..... *Plus I put a lot of time in studying the subject. *Judging foods isn't a place where ignorance is bliss. *I have to be able to tell people what they are doing right AND wrong and how to alter what they are doing to improve their baked goods. All according to Food Judging Standards. *

I can tell when a loaf of bread has too much vital wheat gluten in it by it's tough texture. *People seem to equate a high-rising loaf of bread that is spiked with lots of vital wheat gluten to being "good" bread. *That's just not a scientific fact. *

In commercial baking, vital wheat gluten is added to bring the protein level up to a certain percentage. *Not all flour is equal to the levels for the types of breads they are making. *

Now, if you want to discuss personal taste, that's completely different from bread science; and is as individual as the people themselves.

I make all our breads and baked goods and mill the flour from a variety of grains/seeds/beans to use for them for the highest amount of nutrition and fiber possible. *I never use bleached flour. *

Whole eggs leaven and also bind things together, but whites, while they leaven, have a drying effect in baked goods. *Yolks don't leaven as well as whites or whole eggs but their real contribution is their emulsifying ability. *They hold fat and moisture together. *This also slows staling.

-Karen

[fnfredux]

Karen, I think that I just might've hit on a recipe that despite all the odds, (notice there is no 'kneading' either?) does work. It's great for busy people, small families, those that have arthritis in their hands and those who must make do with whatever they have right there on hand, like a couple of cups of flour.
I make no pretense of haute cuisine, I am sure there are more bread recipes out there than anyone can count.
I am not claiming to be an authority, I just wanted to share something that works, is simple, easy and MAYBE will allow those who think that baking is too difficult to give it a "whirl" when they otherwise might not.
Never knew there was a "science". I just hope someday commercial bakeries will recognize that and hire someone like you who obviously in addition to KNOWING might actually get a chance to CONTRIBUTE that knowledge so the average person could get a decent loaf of bread at the supermarket.

[thebiglebowski]

Hey Homade Mamma, thanks for the recipe, I did it up last nite for my sloppy joes and they came out very nice.

Then I made egg sandwiches with them this morning. A good hearty bun for such things.

[Klapton]

We made buns with the "Moomy" recipe above. Very nice!

[MotherCharlotte]

I just made up that recipe too--last night. I don't have a bread machine so I just did it the regular way. Wow! Great recipe, the buns tasted good and my husband even commented that they tasted like Whopper buns...BUT they turned out huge! I made 8 of them, and I guess I left them a bit too long to rise (an hour)...look what I got!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/Miriamele76/081127020.jpg

I'm not complaining though, because they tasted good and I'll definitely make it up again. I suppose it must have risen so much because of the extra sugar? I have never had dough rise so fast before.

[Klapton]

Double sugar AND double yeast by my calculations. *Combine that with all-purpose (low fiber) flour and you get big poofy, squishy wonder bread. *I used the same basic recipe (actually, my normal recipe, just used all-purpose flour, and doubled the sugar and yeast) to make normal loaves and I got wonder bread, lol. *It was almost like eating cake instead of bread.

It's not really my thing, so I'll be going back to whole wheat etc. But I consider it a successful learning exercise.

[MotherCharlotte]

Well I just made the recipe up again (yes we eat a lot of hamburgers), and this time I made sure not to let them rise too long, and they were perfect and delicious. My husband even commented that it was a good recipe, and he's a fairly picky eater. :)