Lever-Action Rifles for Self-Defense? [Archive]

Crash

12-01-2006, 06:36 AM

How effective would lever-action carbines in .357 Magnum and 30-30 be as defense weapons in situations such as those that occurred in Los Angeles and New Orleans, i.e., armed bands of hoodlums wandering around looking to steal anything they can? I figure the 30-30 would be good out to 100-150 yards and the .357 magnum would be good for 50 yards or so. I also have handguns and a shotgun for the short-range stuff. The reason I'm asking is that I think that a lot of LEOs feel that weapons like the SKS, the AK, and the AR-15 are politically incorrect.

Crash

Biker_Eagle

12-01-2006, 09:43 AM

Lever Guns can be a good urban defense weapon, especially if you have to bugout ala New Orleans. Pump shotgun would be good for the home but a real PITA if you had to leave, due to the weight of gun/ammo.

A Lever/Revolver in .357 would be a very effective choice. Only one cartridge to carry. The .357 lever would be good to a 100 yards and would drop any foe in their tracks. 30-30 is o.k. but....it's going to penetrate through houses whereas the .357 won't, most likely. A Marlin 1895 in .357 and 50 rounds is going to weigh half of a Remington 870 12 ga and 50 shotgun shells. Plus followup with the Lever will be a lot better than the 12ga. Lever guns will not draw near the reaction from LEO's that an AR15/AK47/SKS would. It's a low profile home defense/bugout weapon.

Walking out of New Orleans with a S&W model 686 on your hip, and a Marlin model 1895 slung on your shoulder, would most definitely have kept the mutant zombie scumbags at bay.

Crash

12-01-2006, 09:58 AM

Biker Eagle,

Good points, all---and in line with my way of thinking. Aint' it wunnerful how great minds run in the same channels? ::)

Crash

commonsense

12-02-2006, 01:26 PM

If it comes to a New Orleans type situation I will not be worried avout the PC drivel. I think a 30/30 is good for defense but of course you lose a lot in the number of shells they hold vs AR's

scoutinlife

12-02-2006, 01:34 PM

I have several Winchester lever actions and one of my personal favorites is my 44 mag goes great with my 44 ruger pistol. I would not hestitate the use of it for self defence great thing is I have a lever action 22 as well cheap to practice with and same style and close in weight as it's big brother the 44. What ever you choose practice more practice when the time comes make your rounds count!!!! I think it would draw less attention as well just personel opion! ;)

Eli80Cal

12-02-2006, 05:38 PM

Great little rifles. I compete in three gun matches sometimes and have seen a few guys (mostly CAS ones) compete with them. They did quite well, but they practiced an awful lot.

They make ghost ring sight for most lever guns, which would be a great addition for a defense rifle, and im sure you could attach a light to one if you really wanted. Also, they are very safe to carry/keep with a full tube, and, like a pump shotgun, takes one quick cycle of the action to load it. Dont know if you live in california and that would be all you could get, but a remington 7600 is also an excellent choice. You can buy ten round mags for these (also look at the 7615, which takes AR mags) and reloading is a lot faster then with a levergun. Action of arms is identical to an 870, so training is not a big issue

Good topic.

Tuckahoe

12-03-2006, 12:47 PM

jim

12-04-2006, 07:44 AM

Crash

I have a Marlin .30-30, and while I don't shoot at game further than 200 yds with it, I can keep all rounds inside an 18" circle at 425 yds. using the Remington 150 gr high speed load (2400 fps). I'm lucky in that the first four sight settings on the rear sight corrispond to 100-400 yards. Shoot two, then load two is the standard drill for a lever action last time I checked.

As for general accuracy on the pistol calibers, I've noticed that most of them group around 3-4" at 100 yds. some better, fewer worse. What ever you use, keep it zeroed for a medium range and adjust point of aim as needed, and sight settings at longer ranges.

Good luck
jim

kawalekm

12-05-2006, 03:54 AM

One additional advantage of a Marlin in 357 or 44 mag is that you can shoot 38 and 44 specials in it. It is great for training the wife and kids because of the lack of noise and recoil. The wife especially is much more intimidated by my 223 semiauto then the Marlin shooting 38specials. I think that in the end its training and familarity that will make the differnence in a self-defense situation. Once you really need them you just switch to the magnums and the family is so comfortable already that they really don't notice the difference much.

Besides, passersby that see me with the Marlin think of me like a kid playing Cowboy. When they see the mini-14 they think "nuthead survialist". The "old West" style of guns seems to be much more acceptable to the masses than your typical assalt type weapon.

dannanchieftain

12-05-2006, 08:25 AM

I think just about any multi shot rifle would be great for defense if you are trained and or experienced with it.

I wouldn't worry so much with long range, most engagements would most likely occur at less than 200 yards. Only those with superior skills are bound to be a threat beyond that and at long range the better option would be to retreat to safer circumstances. If the threat was one of those with superior skills it wouldn't much matter what you were carrying then anyway. A short rifle or carbine is great for medium to close range you could always use the lever gun for that and have a bolt action with a scope for your long distance work.

For the most part Ive found that people don't like to be shot and if you prove to them you are capable of doing so they usually will stop bothering you. i don't think they much care if it was a $3k national match springfield M1A or a $300 Marlin 336 once they have been hit.

The lever actions were the ones that turned the tides in long range gunfights during the late 1800's I see no reason why that wouldn't still hold true today provided you weren't up against those with superior firepower.

I have a marlin 1895cb in 45-70 Govt. Though it wouldn't be my first choice in a defense situation mainly because of its recoil and long length, but if i had to use it I'm sure it would get the job done just fine. I am thinking of getting one in 45 colt to match up with my ruger blackhawk.

someone mentioned ghost ring sights earlier this would make a good round out to a good lever defense gun. Lyman also makes a peep sight that can be easily installed on most popular models if that is more to your liking.

Star1pup

12-07-2006, 01:26 PM

I have a Marlin in .357 and it is a fun gun to shoot. I have only shot groundhogs with it, but it sure did the job. I was shooting a 158 gr. Hornady HP-XTP over Bullseye powder. Lately I have been loading the same bullet in 125 gr. over Blue Dot and you would not want to be a bad guy down range from either load.

Archangel

12-08-2006, 06:48 AM

Keep in mind most home defence happen between 10 feet and 10 yards. Can you work the level from the shoulder or will you have to bring it down? Are you planning to shoot from the hip?

RangerRick

12-08-2006, 07:09 AM

I've got an old Savage Model 99 lever gun in 250/3000. While it is great for deer with a 120 grain bullet and will reach out to 300 yds I would perfer to keep it as a cashe weapon. My perference would be my AR15 with lots ammo and the Rem 870, again with lots of ammo for close work.

Rick

kyhillbilly

12-10-2006, 08:00 AM

i have some lever actions that i mainly deer hunt with but i would use them in a self defense mode if i had to.im with ranger rick on the ar 15 or other assault rifle especially if there is an armed crowd like you envision, being pc might get you killed for a crowd you need somthing that will get the rounds out fast and plenty of them.if your wooried about the police and what they may say then perhaps a semi auto hunting rifles like perhaps a rem 740- 742- or the 7400 with 10 round mags wont scare noone but with some extra mags you would have decent firepower i own several of the aboved mentioned rifles in 30-06 and i really like them.

Tuckahoe

12-11-2006, 06:25 AM

In a defense situation I would feel better using a lever action than many of the military type rifles.

Tuckahoe

12-20-2006, 04:48 AM

The marlin and the winchester can be loaded with a round in the chamber. This is important if you are in a situation where you need to keep your magazine full and at the ready.

jim

12-28-2006, 07:45 AM

The old-timers used to shoot two, then load two to keep up their rate of fire and mag capacity.

jim

Tuckahoe

01-01-2007, 04:35 AM

An accurate rate of fire is far more important than just throwing lead. A well placed shot will take the fight out of any two legged varmits. I believe the likelyhood of me being in a self defense roll is much higher than in some combat roll.

scott

01-04-2007, 05:33 PM

If you are talking about an at home self defense weapon, I would assume you mean the internal dimensions of your home. Regardless of the external dimensions of your property, a true "home defense" justified shooting in the eyes of the law would mean a shooting in defense against an agressor that has entered your home. While I do not know the exact dimensions of your home, I would have to think short range, as in across a room or down the hall leading to your bedroom. For this type of quick shooting in most likely low light conditions I would recommend the good old .12 guage with 00. Nothing says ouch like a pattern of 00 at relatively close range. I have been a police officer for 11 years and spent most of that time on a tactical response team. I have made entries with, handguns, mp5's, 16" barreled AR-15's, and short barreled .12 guages. In my experience both as a defender of my own home and family as well as an officer searching and securing other residences, I always felt more comfortable with the "shotty" as we call it. It is easy to aim with using ghost ring sights, it is forgiving if necessary, and it provides plenty of knockdown power. With lesser hand guns and even the mp5's a suspect/aggressor can take multiple hits that will eventually prove fatal and continue his/her assault for enough time to continue a potentially fatal assault against you. While I love my .30-.30 Marlin, I don't see that as my first choice for in-home defense. Nor would I consider any of my handguns. The shotgun provides the best overall package for short distance defense. Now if you are addressing incoming fire from outside your home... that would be another issue entirely.

Crash

01-05-2007, 03:52 AM

[quote author=Eli80Cal link=board=fir-

Dont know if you live in california and that would be all you could get, but a remington 7600 is also an excellent choice. You can buy ten round mags for these (also look at the 7615, which takes AR mags) and reloading is a lot faster then with a levergun. Action of arms is identical to an 870, so training is not a big issue

Good topic.[/quote]

Eli80Cal,

Nope, don't live in California, but I sure would give some thought to a 7600. But where do you get ten-round mags for them? They come from Remington with 4-round mags and I didn't know 10-rounders were available.

Crash

Tuckahoe

01-05-2007, 03:36 PM

Scott, The shotgun is king when things go bump in the night.

Shortstack

01-08-2007, 08:27 PM

Crash,

Eagle sells ten round magazines for the Remington 7600, made from some type of clear plastic...

I have a 7600 but haven't use the Eagle magazines with it, so I don't know if they are reliable...

kilogulf59

01-08-2007, 11:28 PM

Crash

I have a Marlin .30-30, and while I don't shoot at game further than 200 yds with it, I can keep all rounds inside an 18" circle at 425 yds. using the Remington 150 gr high speed load (2400 fps). I'm lucky in that the first four sight settings on the rear sight corrispond to 100-400 yards. Shoot two, then load two is the standard drill for a lever action last time I *checked.

As for general accuracy on the pistol calibers, I've noticed that most of them group around 3-4" at 100 yds. some better, fewer worse. What ever you use, keep it zeroed for a medium range and adjust point of aim as needed, and sight settings at longer ranges.

Good luck
jim

Good advise Jim. I'd opt for the 30-30 myself. As a matter of fact it's on the top of the "must have" list.

I hear there's much improved in the way of 30-30 ammo, like that Remmy load...you have more info on that Jim?

Crash

01-09-2007, 03:07 AM

jim

01-09-2007, 08:12 AM

Well, I get good results from the Remington Hi-Speed load in a .30-30. It's around 2300 fps out of my 20" bbl with their 150 gr JRN, and I got real lucky with the replacement rear sight center peice. It is the one with notches that allows one to raise POI. The first four notches corrispond very closely with the trajectory at an additional 100 yards for each notch: 1st=100 yds, 2nd=200yds, and so on. I don't have a range that I can shoot further than 425yds with so I don't know how much further this would work. I'm sure that groups would widen enough so that and the slower velocity would make it worthless much further. I keep shots at deer to under 200 yds, though I believe that 400 ftlbs of energy are enough for small deer, and 600 ftlbs should do for a 200 pounder, but I've never tried. I suppose that neck shots would do for really big deer and hogs.

It's a good shooter and with those open sights I can keep all shots on an 18" steel plate at 425 yds. A good shot could better, and one of these days, I'm going to scope it just to see what it will really do.

jim

Tuckahoe

01-09-2007, 08:23 AM

Eagle used to sell a bunch of hi cap mags for traditional hunting rifles. They also made Mini 14 mags back in the 80's These were plastic too and got loose and stopped working after a short time.

The biggest seller to me on the lever action rifles is the avalibility of ammunition. Almost every country store in the USA has a couple of boxes of 30-30 on the shelf.
The same with .38/.357.
The military calibers are going to dry up over night if the stinky hits the fan. I have seen ammo scares before when you couldn't buy a box of 7.62x39 or any quanity of .223 or 308. Panic buying did this back in 97 here in N.C. There was a rumor floating that ammo was in a shortage about to be stopped. It was more than likely a gun shop/ gun show rumer but it worked and the public grabbed up all that was on the shelf and in the matter of a couple of days little or no military caliber ammo was available anywhere. You could buy all the .45/70, 30-30, .38/.357 .44 mag., you wanted and the price never changed a penny. If someone is going to use a military caliber it only makes sense to store back a case or three for hard times. If you are using a non nato caliber such as 7.62x54R or 7.62x39 you may want to stock back even more.

kilogulf59

01-10-2007, 04:02 AM

The biggest seller to me on the lever action rifles is the avalibility of ammunition. Almost every country store in the USA has a couple of boxes of 30-30 on the shelf.
The same with .38/.357.
The military calibers are going to dry up over night if the stinky hits the fan. I have seen ammo scares before when you couldn't buy a box of 7.62x39 or any quanity of .223 or 308.

A very, very good point to consider.

lostinthewoods

01-10-2007, 08:47 AM

I would have to agree with the 12ga pump for "around the house 'cleaning'" Just the sound of a slide jacking would I think make even the most hardened criminal's blood run cold! lol

On a side bar:
If I were walking out of New Orleans or anywhere for that matter. PC would be the least of my worries! I don't think many LEO would even really care to talk to someone walking out of town with a AR15 shorty slung on a tactical 3 point sling around my neck. That's not particularilay a fight I want to walk up to and give a hard time! lol

lost

jim

01-10-2007, 09:44 AM

Considering the popularity of the Scout Rifle concept, I've also been thinking of mounting a scope on my Marlin. Maybe a low power fixed or a 1X4 variable, but on top of the action sisnce it's designed for this. I've ran the ballistic charts, and it should look something like this:
50 yds +2"
100yds +3"
200yds 0
250yds -5"
300yds -13"

Good enough for serious work.

Tuckahoe

01-10-2007, 01:11 PM

I put an aimpoint on my .44 magnum marlin and it was real fast to get on target. I took it off as I got worried about the batteries giving out at a bad time. I would however like to put a rear peep sight on it and a fiber optic front site. For the range of a .44 magnum the peep would be just fine.

kilogulf59

01-17-2007, 06:34 AM

You're right there...as Colonel Applegate was fond of saying "keep it simple and it will work everytime".

Tuckahoe

01-17-2007, 12:43 PM

I have been thinking of adding a scope to my 30-30 with a set of see through mounts that way I could have a peep and a scope. My eyes are not as sharp as they were and the factory sights can be hard to see at times for me.

wy0mn

01-29-2007, 02:05 PM

Jim-
If you still have good eyes forget the scope.
I hunt with a .45-70 Guide Gun. At ranges under 200m I don't need the scope, at ranges over that I need a different caliber.
The Scout mounted scope throws off the balance of the entire piece, and quality scopes with sufficient eye relief are expen$ive.
I'm keeping the scope/mounts just in case my eyes ever get any worse, but I'm truly hopeing that I never need them.
Lex

jim

01-30-2007, 05:16 AM

I can see well enough for a fully exposed body shot up to 400 yards, but can't group as tightly as I'd like. Perhaps a peep sight would help. At that range, I have to take my time with those factory open sights.

I agree with the expensive scout type scopes, and would just use a standard mounted scope of maybe a fixed 2X or a 1X-4X variable.

jim

robynpv

02-11-2007, 03:14 AM

Hello Everyone....I am happy to see this topic,because I have been looking at a lever action made by Rossi?This thing is really short and really shiny!My local wants 325 Xtax for it and I am no expert in lever carbines,soo is that a good deal?Thanks Robyn.

jim

02-11-2007, 05:08 AM

Sounds like it may be one of those nickel-pleated pistol cal. versions. I've seen them here for up to 450.00 but Austin has higher prices than anyone around. I'd stick with a Marlin as they can be disassembled and cleaned from the breech thereby causing no extra muzzle wear. Shiney will cause you problems in the field.

jim

Matthew

02-11-2007, 05:41 AM

I would have to agree with the 12ga pump for "around the house 'cleaning'" Just the sound of a slide jacking would I think make even the most hardened criminal's blood run cold! lol

On a side bar:
I don't think many LEO would even really care to talk to someone walking out of town with a AR15 shorty slung on a tactical 3 point sling around my neck.

lost

Lost, you need to check out the following site. It will make you sick.

www.givethemback.com

Arkansas_Fat_Man

02-12-2007, 10:28 AM

;) Just bought a Winchester 30-30leaver gun at the local pawn shop. The gun looks new & unfired. The guy wanted $200.00 for it but i talked him down to $175.00 I think I got a pretty good deal. It's a model 94 with the cowboy stock. 8)

Tuckahoe

02-12-2007, 03:05 PM

That was a heck of a deal on a Winchester 94. I would like to get a winchester 94 but all I have seen are way over what you paid. I do have a Marlin in 30-30 and .44 magnum.

Tuckahoe

02-12-2007, 03:24 PM

That was a heck of a deal on a Winchester 94. I would like to get a winchester 94 but all I have seen are way over what you paid. I do have a Marlin in 30-30 and .44 magnum.

HPshooter

02-13-2007, 08:06 PM

I love my Rossi .44 Mag stainless and walnut lever-action carbine. 10 in the tube and one in the chamber. Rear sight is a little cheezy, but a great shooter.

BTW, does anyone know the title of the Western movie in which John Wayne was cocking and firing a lever-gun in each hand while galloping on horseback?

On a more bizarre note there's a good lever-action rifle scene in the last 10 minutes of the cult-classic horror flick, "Army of Darkness" staring Bruce Campbell.

Ponyman

02-14-2007, 07:15 AM

It was True Grit. Well worth buying and watching over and over! It was his only oscar performance although I think he could have won for Red River, The Searchers and The Quiet man as well! That shot was him being pulled on a cart tho and I remember him putting up a huge fuss because there was a photographer on set taking pictures and he didn't want anybody to see John Wayne not riding a horse! So you don't see those pictures do you!

Ponyman

Crash

02-14-2007, 09:36 AM

;) * * Just bought a Winchester 30-30leaver gun at the local pawn shop. The gun looks new & unfired. The guy wanted $200.00 for it but i talked him down to $175.00 I think I got a pretty good deal. It's a model 94 with the cowboy stock. *8)

AFM,

Great deal! I bought a 30 year old 94 in 30-30 (bore in excellent shape, finish on metal has some wear and stains, stock in good, not great shape) for $275.

Crash

Badger

04-07-2007, 03:55 AM

It's not the rifle, but the RIFLEMAN that counts.

Al_Coda

04-07-2007, 06:45 AM

The reason I'm asking is that I think that a lot of LEOs feel that weapons like the SKS, the AK, and the AR-15 are politically incorrect.

Crash

Some jury members might think so too.

With the exception of my Mossberg 500 18 1/2" barrel w/pistol grip, all my firearms are basically plain jane, common hunting/varmit rifles in standard US calibers (.38, .357, .30-30, .30.0.6, 16ga, 12ga, .22) . No flash suppressors, composite stocks, banana clips, etc. Don't get me wrong, if I were sitting on your jury I wouldn't care what you shot a home invader with - but personally I wouldn't some overzealous prosecutor holding this

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u316/Al_Coda/00-1000-018.gif

above his head at my trial and telling the jury "this gun only has one purpose, and he was just waiting for the opportunity to try it out..."

The main thing is that you have a gun when you need it IMO.

dannistim

01-24-2008, 08:12 PM

get steel 10 rd 7600/7400 mags from brownells.com

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=18397&title=REMINGTON%20740/742/7400%2010-ROUND%20MAGAZINES

This is technically for the 7400 but it works in the 7600 better than it does in the 7400 since it lacks the bold hold open tab on the follower. These mags are tough as nails but some need to have a little dremel work done on the front if you use heavy round nose bullets instead of spitzers which I did when I was in Alaska.

Shortstack

01-26-2008, 10:04 PM

I think every one who considers themselves a gun enthusiast has at least one lever action rifle, though some probably won't admit it... ;D
As a defensive weapon, I could see a rifle/revolver combination chambered for the same cartridge as a plus...

kawalekm

01-27-2008, 07:43 AM

Here's one more idea on the advantage of a .357/.44 lever. The pistol cartridges are so easy to reload, and can be made with cast bullets you made yourself. I bought a Lee loader for my 44mag, and everything I need to make complete rounds (including powder, primers, molds, dies) can fit in a space smaller than a 1/2 gallon milk container. In a bug-out situation, I think the 44 (or a 357) is the only cartridge I could make scrounging materials in a given locality. It would be a lot harder trying to make .223, .308, or 7.62 cartridges.
Michael

flatwater

01-27-2008, 05:59 PM

This may sound crazy to some of you BUT, a 30-30 does have a heck of a kick plus using the lever at the shoulder takes time and you loose your sight plane. Under your stated parameters and if the intruders were not wearing body armer , I would choose my ruger 10/22 rifle with extra mags taped together and my little Walther P22 with extra magazines or my old ruger semi auto Mark one. And if were talking about using it in the home , a 22 generally won't pass through the body and cause residual damage. I saw advertised in a gun mag where you can hook up two 10/22 barrels to this contraption and make a gatlin gun complete with a turn handle to fire it with. That would cause some serious side affects.
Flatwater

jim

01-28-2008, 07:41 AM

Don't mean to be nasty here, but the .30-30 is a mild recoil firearm. Hardly worth mentioning in that department, and I fire the high velocity Remington loads.

jim

Shortstack

01-29-2008, 09:19 AM

I agree with you jim, also if one keeps the leveraction rifle sholdered and won't lift their head when cycling the action, the sight picture (plane?) may woble a bit but it isn't lost, follow up shots can be delivered quickly and accurately with a lever action.

Tuckahoe

02-03-2008, 06:34 AM

A peep site can be added to any lever action rifle be it a Savage, Winchester or Marlin. This speeds up the sighting a good bit and works better for folks who have problems seeing the factory rear sight.
If you intend on using your lever action for homeland protection you owe it to yourself and your family to pratice to the point of being a master of your weapon. Pratice basic marksmanship, house clearing, and weapons failure drills are a must with any weapon and should become second nature.
None of us live the same way. I may need to guard against coyotes eating ducks and chickens you may need to guard against MS-13. I live a mile from anyone and you may live within a foot of your neighbor. Get what works for your situation.

flatwater

02-03-2008, 01:09 PM

I will tell you what. If we got to robots of equal size and aptitude and armed one with a 30/30 and one with a 10/22 you might get one shot off but mine would be putting holes in you from your crotch on up to the middle of your eye brows and thats without even raising it to the robots shoulder. So if you could still shoot while singing saprano you might win but thats just one senerio.
Flatwater

hunter63

02-03-2008, 03:05 PM

I personally like lever guns, have a couple myself.

But I should bring up that if your planning to reload, you need to crimp the bullets when using a tubular magazine.
If you have a standard press, this isn't a problem, but the Lee Loader doesn't do a good job of crimping.
This advise is complemts of most re-loading manuals.
IMO;
Lever guns are also kind of a PITA to load quickly, as apposed to a magazine.

SunRiverMan

02-11-2008, 08:47 PM

I bought a new Marlin 1894 a little over a year ago it is a .44 magnum. I have found that this little handy rifle is all I ever needed. I have owned nearly every semi automatic military style rifle available. I went full circle back to a very basic rifle that fits my needs. I in no way feel out gunned in a self defense position with the lever action

I too have come full circle from the military style rifles. A leveraction and a revolver in the same caliber is all I need. A bonus is all the money I save to spend on other things. SRM out!

Tuckahoe

02-13-2008, 05:20 AM

The lever rifle has lots going for it while it will never be carried into battle by the modern armies of today it serves as a great utility arm for country living.

Swamp_Rat

02-15-2008, 09:20 PM

You certainly would not be undergunned with a .357 lever/wheelgun combo. I have been hunting deer, pigs, tree rats and bunnies with one for years with no issues. If I lived in an area with large dangerous game I would probably opt for a .44 or .45colt combo (worse I have is black bear and most are under 350lbs and turn and run when confronted)

The .357 really shines when you start hand loading! it *maximizes accuracy and there are alot more bullets available than are loaded commercialy. To take this one step further you can cast your own bullets. I do both and narrowed my selection down to a 75gr WC that is leathal on small game, a 158gr RNFP that I use for general shooting/target shooting, a 170gr keith mould(358429) that will soon also throw 158grHP's(358439)for self defense and a 180grRNFPGC that is big medicine for deer and pigs when stuffed on top of 13.6gr of H110(leaves the barrel @ 1860fps).

My casting kit all fits in a 7.62 ammo can, as well as my loading kit(Lee Hand Press). The complete loading setup including powder and primers cost around $100 and the casting setup less the moulds was about a quarter of that(using the same MSR Whisperlite Int that already resides in my ruck) the price goes up and varies conciderable on what kind of moulds(2/4/6 cavity) and Mfg (Lee/Lyman, Seaco, LBT, etc..) as well if you buy new or used.

I personaly think that what makes the .357 a better choice over the other pistol calibers is it is just as effective out to 100yrds and uses half the powder and half the lead as a .44, which means you get litteraly get twice the bang for your buck.

The target in the background was shot with 100rnds of 158grFNRP on top of 11.5gr of 2400 out of the little lever in the middle(Marlin 1894CP 16"ported .357) at ranges from 50-100yrds with a Marbles tang sight. My pistols of choice for the hot loads(hunting rounds) is either a Ruger OM BV or a Ruger GP100, and they will eat the same diet as the rifle handly while hitting shotgun shell sized target out at 25yrds with the horsed up ammo.
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2949/1894cp1lx0.jpg

For self defense levers attract less attention than your standard issue shelf shucking rifle and jury would be less apt to convict(everything else being equel). The sheeple are also not as fearful of the leverguns

wy0mn

02-24-2008, 06:13 PM

I had the Marbles tang sight on a '94 Win Trapper in .44mag a few years back. Great gun, great sight; but I surely wouldn't want one on my .45-70!

Tuckahoe

03-02-2008, 07:40 AM

I picked up a Ruger Redhawk .44 magnum companion revolver for my Marlin 1894 .44 magnum.

RangerRick

03-02-2008, 01:19 PM

Personally, a lever gun would not be my first choice for a defense weapon but it would be better than throwing rocks. I've got an old origional 1873 Winchester saddle carbine in 44-40. Takes a blackpowder round and will go out to maybe 100 yards and falls in the dirt. Nope, not a defense weapon.

I've also got an old Savage model 99 in 250-3000 that is accurate beyond reason. I handload some 87 gn spitzers with 42 gn of IMR 4831 that will send it zippin out at around 2800 fps. Of course an 87 gn bullet isn't much of a man stopper so I use a 120 grn for deer/elk which are most adequate as accuracy is excellent. All and all, the lever gun makes for great hunting but will not produce enough volume of firepower in a defensive position to be reliable for sustaining life rather at distance or close quarters. Ideal close quarter <50 yds defensive weapons are pump/semi-auto loader shotguns with buckshoot at best, my second choice would be most any assult rifle regardless of caliber.

Rick