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View Full Version : Ideal survival gun(s) for your situation?


dannistim
05-03-2008, 02:19 AM
They say the main symptom of having your head up your butt is that the same "stuff" just keeps going round and round. That said, I'm interested in finding out about how other folks have chosen to arm themselves given their own unique requirements and situations in life.

macgeoghagen
05-03-2008, 03:04 AM
my situation: living in a town in an ok neighborhood, but a couple blocks away from criminals. my requirement: agile close range weapon with enough firepower to punch through my front door. weapon: mossberg 12ga. 18.5 inch barrel. pistol grip. requirement: weapon that can be used from inside a vehicle while bugging out. weapon: springfield XD, .45ACP.

dannistim
05-03-2008, 03:47 AM
edited to remove stupidity :P

That's cool. Sounds like they'll do the job.

My situation: Live in large city in an apartment complex in a decent area between a slum and a ritzy area. the proximity of slum and wealth creates an amazing amount of demand and supply of drugs and all that go with it. add to that recent attacks on joggers by a pack of coyotes and a bobcat that have lost their fear of humans and live in the green belt that abuts my apartment complex.

Requirement: Concealable, ultra reliable, reasonably powerful, reasonably accurate, readily available ammo, easy to reload for, low maintainance, handguns with no important parts that fall off with the push of a button (detachable magazines) for my wife and I.
Guns Chosen: stainless steel .357mag snub nose revolvers.

Requirement: Compact, decisive, ultra reliable, reasonably powerful, reasonably accurate, versatile, readily available ammo, easy to reload for, low maintainance, long gun with no important parts that fall off with the push of a button (detachable magazines) for my wife and I.

Guns Chosen: Stainless steel .308 bolt action carbines. Scout configuration for me, ghost ring sights for my wife since she doesn't like scopes.

I too value the power and versatility of the shotgun. Unfortunately, shotgun ammo is bulky and heavy and so is the equipment to reload it. This is why my shotguns tend to drift to the rear of my gunsafe.

Rifle ammo can be loaded with a hand press or a lee loader. Four calibers worth of reloading equipment & components for loading from mice to moose fit in a small tote.

logansackett
05-07-2008, 04:38 PM
I live in colo. in a large city (for now) I am researching rifles looking for just one to fit the bill. I want to be able to hunt if needed, but also think it would be wise to have somthing that would work defending myself. I looked at the ar15 but goodnight thats alot of money plus I dont think they had hunting in mind when it was made. Any suggestions?

wy0mn
05-07-2008, 10:21 PM
My "ideal" gun isn't my first choice. lol
The one thats the most practical & utilitarian for me is the SKS I just dressed up. Reasonably accurate, moderately powerful, semi-auto, cheap ammo.

My first choice would be my Marlin GuideGun .45-70, but I don't reload & ammo is getting stupidly priced.

logansackett
05-07-2008, 10:33 PM
Im off to the Tanner gun show in June for more research and pricing, I will look at the sks. Thanks

High_Desert
05-08-2008, 12:44 PM
I live in a rural area so my requirements are different.

Most used gun on my place is a Ruger 10-22.
The gun I pack the most on family outings in the outdoors is a S&W mountain gun in .45 colt or a Freedom Arms 97 in .45 colt with handloads.

When hunting season comes, I grab a Ruger #1 in 30-06 or .35 Whelen depending on what I am after.

Bump in the night out here means the racoons are after the chickens 99% of the time. A 12 gauge and a flashlight handles those.

Best Regards,
HD

remington
05-09-2008, 01:38 AM
For one gun a lever-action 30/30 is nice. Fairly cheap and common ammo. Some people claim about short range. Learn how to stalk and that won't be a problem
By the way, noticed your name. Louis L'Amour fan?

logansackett
05-09-2008, 03:00 AM
Yeah I have all his books. I started a new writer named william johnstone. he has a couple of series I like. The last mountain man and out of the ashes. I will be suprised if some here have not already read these.As to the rifle a have a lever action 44/40, nice one but hard to get ammo.

wy0mn
05-09-2008, 10:54 AM
Cabelas lists several suppliers for .44/40 ammo, for the Cowboy Action shooting folks. I dunno how comparatively priced they are.
My Dad reads Haunted Mesa over & over. I prefer some of his short stories over his full length novels. Moreno of Dry Country is my favorite, I have most of his works in a hardback collection, including Smoke From This Altar...
Lex

High_Desert
05-09-2008, 10:37 PM
As to the rifle a have a lever action 44/40, nice one but hard to get ammo.

Sounds like a good excuse to start casting and reloading! Neat rifle.

Best Regards,
HD

Tuckahoe
05-30-2008, 11:23 AM
I live in a rural area, not as rural as some of you but about as rural as North Carolina gets. My first choice for country life is a Marlin 336 in 30-30 for many reasons including accuracy, easy to find ammo (you can find a box of ammo in most country stores) and it will take deer, bear and coyotes without a problem. My second rifle is a Henry .22 lever action. Third a good solid pump shotgun. I just bought a NEF Partner Pump 12ga (low cost and very well made).

Some folks like survival rifles in military calibers .223, 7.62x39, and 7.62x54R. These are all good calibers but I have seen ammo scares where you could not find a box anywhere. If you like these calibers it would be wise to stock back a few cases of ammo for just in case.

AARTY
05-30-2008, 02:13 PM
Colt Commander and Bushmaster XM15E3(M4 style). The Colt I am MOGA with and I can hunt with the AR just fine, I already have surplus ammo for both and it isn't that hard to come by more in a SHTF arena.

RangerRick
05-30-2008, 09:45 PM
Yeah I have all his books. I started a new writer named william johnstone. he has a couple of series I like. The last mountain man and out of the ashes. I will be suprised if some here have not already read these.As to the rifle a have a lever action 44/40, nice one but hard to get ammo.

I've got the complete Ashes series and have read the Mountainman series as well. Good reads. I've got a lever gun in 44/40, fun shooter but for me it doesn't fill the bill as a survival weapon of choice. My AR15 is OK, has fair range and is a proven combat weapon and my 1911 is a great backup but they just don't fit as a true "survival weapon".

My choice is the Rem 870 for its versatility of ammo as an all-around survival gun. It can't be beat for crowd control, I've carried them frequently in my 30 year military career in many of the world's dung heeps and with 00 buck it makes an excellent close quarter choice. With the right load you can hunt just about anything on the North American contenient so it is a proven tool for the freezer. It isn't the perfect weapon, not sexy, not far reaching, not a high rate of fire but IMHO it will it will command respect from the most agressive butt heads and do the best all-around job in most all survival situations.

Ranger Rick

logansackett
05-30-2008, 10:30 PM
Thanks Rick, the 870 is one that I want, I am looking at an sks mostly for the price right now. If I am lucky then I will get both of these at the gun show in June. I don't know if that is realistic or not as I have not been to a gun show in years and dont know what to expect price wise.

wy0mn
06-03-2008, 09:47 AM
Mark.
Check out www.jgsales.com for SKS's, ammo & stuff like that. They grade their SKS by collectibility so you'll see two different prices. They are the cheapest I've found. Use the prices as an index while shopping.

Most folks charge 10%, or more, above the real value of a gun, a profit mark-up. You're the best judge as to whether or not a guns value matches it price, and the two are totally different aspects.

If you have a fairly clean record get your C&R FFL and order your SKS yourself. Class III FFL costs $30, takes about 3mo to get, and pays for itself in one purchase! The license is good for 2 or 3 yrs, I forget which.

Lex
Oh yeah, if you find a price thats too good to be true... it probably is. Check SKS muzzles for blackened bores, not blued steel, but BLACK. Apparently those guns have been used with corrosive ammo and should be used as wall ornaments only.

RangerRick
06-03-2008, 11:15 AM
Thanks Rick, the 870 is one that I want, I am looking at an sks mostly for the price right now. If I am lucky then I will get both of these at the gun show in June. I don't know if that is realistic or not as I have not been to a gun show in years and dont know what to expect price wise.

The SKS is a reliable weapon as well. I keep one in a sock in the wifes van. It is faithful and will fire regardless of it's condition so that makes it a good BOB gun and for the ocasional shot at furry critters it fills the bill as well. When I get the cabin at the lake finished it will probably get a new home as with the SKS, cleaning is optional.

;D

Rick

kawalekm
06-03-2008, 01:22 PM
My first choice would be my Marlin GuideGun .45-70, but I don't reload & ammo is getting stupidly priced.

Hi Wy0mn
I can't think of a single other cartridge that can be improved more by handloading than a .45-70. Even better, I can't think of any other big game cartridge that performs as well with lead bullets as the .45-70. I cast for both my rifles and handguns, and if I got a Marlin like you the very first thing I would get for it is a bullet mold. I make quality bullets with scrap wheelweights and solder, and would could make a cast load for it that could flatten a grizzly!

I like to stock up on primers and powder when they're on sale, and since I make my own bullets, the components needed to make several thousand rounds will fit inside a shoebox.

I'm located in a remote mountain area, and for my personal situation, I think the best combo for me is a 4" 44Mag revolver (carried full time) loaded with either 44 spl cast or snake loads, and a lever 44Mag rifle loaded with jacketed hollowpoints.
Michael

madmac
06-04-2008, 02:52 AM
Rementon 870 with two barrels. I have a slug barrel with sights and a nice twist I can use for home defense as well as game hunting and a 26" barrel with the acu choke system for small game and birds. It is my if I only had one gun choice. Maybe not your best choice as everyone lives in different conditions but it will work for me.

FotoTomas
06-04-2008, 03:43 PM
Well I have several situations I might need to prepare for and have done so. On the otherhand several general purpose arms can be used for most anything with a high degree of success.

My personal opinion is a family needs a minimum of 4 guns in the home. A centerfire rifle, a repeating shotgun, a handgun and a .22.

The various models and calibers can be argued and the situations of individuals will dictate some choices. All in all however those four will meet most any survival or general need.

I have however more than the minimum 4. Hurricanes and other weather plus options for evacuation, tools for my work as a cop, hunting, competition needs and general fun guns all have examples in my home. I will survive with what I have or can scrounge.

wy0mn
06-04-2008, 11:24 PM
Thanks Michael :) .
Maybe one day I'll take the reloading plunge. But for now I'm building my cabin & stockpiling pre-rolled ammo & supplies.
Yup, the .45-70 can definately be souped up a bit. The beast was decanted in 1873 and modern loads (except for Garrett and a few others) are kept wussed down to keep unsavvy folks from killing themselves with Grandpa's trapdoor!
Even with the throttled down ballistics, and over 50 white-tail kills to this caliber, I have never found a bullet inside the carcass.
In the few instances where death wasn't immediate there was a Braille blood trail.
My first .45-70 was a NEF single popper I bought after a divorce. My reasoning was that it would have zip resale value so I'd be able to retain it even thru the hardest times. lol
I'm not a great fan of olden calibers by any means, but when something works this well ya keep it.

The world is full of neglected rounds that can be surprising in their performance, the one that immediately comes to mind is the 7.7 Japanese Arisaki! My brother swears by the 7.62x54.

To each their own.
Roll 'em & smoke 'em!

pipehand
06-10-2008, 09:46 PM
+1 on the Guide Gun and the 45-70. I cast my own bullets, and in order to practice a bunch without getting bruised, I keep pretty close to the 1873 velocities with a 405 grain bullet. The great thing about it is that it doesn't require gas checks for a viable big game load, and it will perform with just about any powder quicker than 4350. Another survival plus is that the 45-70 Marlins will fire 2-1/2" .410 shotgun shells! You'll have to press in on the extractor when you drop the lever to extract because of the rounded rim on the shotgun shell, but it does work when hand fed directly into the chamber. Has definite foraging possibilities.

FenrisW
06-10-2008, 10:03 PM
I find it hard to improve upon the MAK90.

Reliable, functional, and low ammo cost.

Good choice for hunting critters with four or two legs.

Around the homestead, the 870 is hard to beat.

Just a newb's HO.

EarthMother
06-20-2008, 01:15 AM
I picked up a Remington 511 rifle cheap. Now I know why... it is missing the clip. Remington doesn't have them. I was told by a friend of mine that I could get one anywhere IE Wal-Mart. The only place I can find one is Wisner. Any suggestions? Wisner's is $20.00 and I'd like to have at least 2. $40.00 really isn't all that much but I'm a cheap old woman who thinks it's a sin to buy stuff for full price.

High_Desert
06-20-2008, 02:44 AM
You might try

www.midwayusa.com or www.brownells.com

Best regards,
HD

EarthMother
06-21-2008, 12:07 AM
Thanks High_Desert, I tried both sites and got nuthin'.
I guess it is Wisner's. My DH is ordering now.
Thanks again for your reply.

wy0mn
06-21-2008, 02:15 AM
I use these folks for hard to locate parts.
They have some cheaper ones too, although some are out of stock.
They have a user friendly internal search engine. It listed three types of Remington 511's.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd.asp?chrProductSKU=128320A&chrSuperSKU=12 8320&MC=

Lex

traper
06-28-2008, 03:23 AM
i live in a some what rual area but up the street has turned into just a bad place that you realy dont wont to go at night so my ideal gun is a ruger 10/22LR with a 32 round clip loaded with copper plated holow points just enough to keep the squrils away from the bird feeder but will also knock someone on there but or sure keep them away for good if i was being robbed or something.Its also light weight with no recole and simple to use alowing you to get it up and ready and get off alot of rounds and hit what you were roughly aiming at in little time at all (if you practice with it)

remington
06-29-2008, 02:26 AM
Traper- A 22? Self defense? No thanks. If it was all I had I would use it but if I could carry something else I would. For a long gun why not carry a shotgun, and if you are in the city (somewhat rural) a shotgun would sure take care of most anything. Most handgun calibers are marginal at best in knockdown power (exclude 454, 500, 50 AE etc) and a 22 doesn't compete with a .32, 9mm, 40, 45.

remington
06-29-2008, 02:28 AM
By the way. Cheaper than Dirt has 511 clips at something like 11.99.

rAcErRicK
07-01-2008, 06:27 PM
Just another thought, while concidering the "perfect one". Expose yourself to any and all firearms, and spend a couple of rounds of a friends piece any chance you get. Look it over good. A very likely situation in the BO mode you may come across weapon laying on the ground, that is totally strange to you, and it would be really handy to have it in your memory bank of experience. IMHO, the perfect one will be whatever you have your hands on in that time of need. Especially if you can make it go bang !

Theyeti
08-04-2008, 09:51 PM
Remmy 870 with shot and slug barrels.

macgeoghagen
08-04-2008, 11:12 PM
.45-70 is a nice cartridge, but id like to have something chambered in a common caliber. nobody remembers the guy who comes in and gets a box of regular 5.56 NATO. everyone in the shop remembers the guy who comes in and asks for .45-70. Reloading can get you a long way, but theres always the possibility of wearing out your brass. stack it deep.

Don't underestimate .22LR. those little bullets bounce around inside a body and cause damage. 30 of these will be very painful. Even so, it isnt my first choice.

I like the remington 870 with extra barrels. you could tailor a gun to multiple situations. if a sidewinder magazine kit is installed you could have one of slugs, one of shot, and convert your gun to slugs or shot in a few seconds. Don't forget the flexibility that the 12ga shell gives you in reloading your ammo of choice. I saw some 12ga grenades on TV.

Mike
08-14-2008, 06:33 PM
My armory for SHTF is a

Sig 225
Kimber .45
Savage .22 x2
Savage bolt .308
and I'm in the process of finding a Barret .50
among others

There is something to be said for dropping a critter from further then they could hear the shot. Granted 4k is a lot to spend for one weapon (the .50), I justify it by thinking that "if you dont need it and have it, then great. But if you need it and dont have it, well...sucks to be you"

Farmer
08-14-2008, 08:57 PM
My needs are pretty simple.

For personal defense, a Kimber 1911.

For home defense an AR-15. Next purchase will be a Remington 1187.

For "emergency hunting" I have a Thompson .308/7.62 with a scoped 16.25" barrel in my bug-out bag, and I have a .22 conversion slide for the Kimber. Yes, I can hit small game at 30 yards with the pistol.

If I can get the BOB contents settled out (I keep replacing things with smaller lighter items) I'll get a 16.25" barrel in .22 rimfire for the Thompson.

I keep drooling at the Barret in the gun shop whenever I drop in to visit. Unfortunately, I'm hooked on the semi-auto which is $8K. I'm just totally captivated with the idea of being able to nail a SUV at 1.25 miles. ::)

Bruenor
08-14-2008, 10:03 PM
For a SHTF situation, I'd want a semi-auto rife capable for both self defense and also hunting. It would have to be both durable and reasonably accurate. Due to my financial situation right now, I'd have to be able to buy it cheap and feed it cheap.

Because of all of that, I'm actually picking up an SKS this Sunday. My friend, who is also the long-time boyfriend of my wife's cousin, is the one who got me into shooting. He owns an AK-47, so we're planning on buying about 5000 rounds of ammo to split, so I'll have plenty of ammo stacked up. I figure I can get the SKS, plus 2500 rounds, for still way less than it would cost me to get an AR-15.

My only concern is, what happens when I run out of ammo? 7.62x39 isn't nearly as common of a round as, say, 30.06. Because of that, when I get my next promotion, which hopefully should be in 6-8 months, I'm buying a Garand from the CMP. That, with the SKS, should give me enough flexibility in a SHTF situation. If not, I can always fall back on the .44 magnum lever action.

Oblio13
10-02-2009, 02:09 AM
If I could only keep one, it would be my Ruger 77/22 bolt action .22, integrally suppressed by AWC. Very accurate, and so quiet you can actually hear the firing pin hit the primer. I keep discovering more and more applications for bullets that arrive unannounced. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YHA2qCNON4&feature=related

duckidaho
10-02-2009, 05:26 AM
Very rural Idaho -

Remington 700 30.06 for long range deer and elk. Walnut, cause I like wood.
Marlin 1895 in 45-70 for short range and bear and anything that you want to stop moving fast like.
Smith and Wesson Mountain-Lite .44 special. ultra light to carry, packs a wallop, and super accurate.
Henry .22 lever by the door for critters in the chicken coop.
Winchester SX2 for waterfowl 12 ga. 3.5 inch. This gun is all business on birds.

O.K. so ammo is awful to find for the .44 special and the .45-70, but I can always order in from Midway. I've got other guns with easier ammo to get, but I just don't like them as much.

DM
10-02-2009, 02:36 PM
Combo guns are the "ultimate" survival weapon, and i've loved them since i was a small boy and saw my first one in a Shooters Bible...

For more than 20 years i wondered all over the Alaskan bush (and every place else) with one long gun. I wanted a gun that did EVERYTHING, and was light enough to carry all day. I finally found the gun that does it all, and it's STILL my go to gun!

http://www.fototime.com/3307385D2BCD845/orig.jpg

I paid $350.00 for it, and then turned it into exactly the gun that i always wanted.

And i've harvested everytrhing from moose and bear,

http://www.fototime.com/71D5748CCA76B2C/standard.jpg

on down to ptarmigan, ducks, pheasants, rabbits and all kinds of other big and small game, including turkeys like this tom i harvested off my homestead,

http://www.fototime.com/FCA4029ABA44E24/standard.jpg

And the numerous bucks that i've harvested off my homestead too, like this one, that i shot last fall,

http://www.fototime.com/F0920376DB47F6C/standard.jpg

Anyway, i'd by far rather have one high quality "do all" gun, than a closset full of individual average guns, as when it comes to a survival situation, this one does it all.

DM

duckidaho
10-02-2009, 03:28 PM
Cool, I've heard of these but never seen one.

MooseToo
10-02-2009, 05:03 PM
Combo guns are the "ultimate" survival weapon, and i've loved them since i was a small boy and saw my first one in a Shooters Bible...

DM

interesting - unfortunately, yours lacks the barrels for flares and stun grenades - but, i'll bet toting it still does wonders for upper torso and shoulder fitness -

DM
10-03-2009, 01:55 AM
interesting - unfortunately, yours lacks the barrels for flares and stun grenades - but, i'll bet toting it still does wonders for upper torso and shoulder fitness -

First of all, how many of your gun"s" fire a stun grenade? And i can't remember even one time in all of my wonderings over the last 30 years that i needed one.

As for the upper body remark, was that aimed at the weight of my firearm? It weighs just under 7 pounds, think you can handle carrying that?

DM

bigcstrom65
10-26-2009, 11:09 PM
Hey dm

That's a great looking firearm!! I'm a fan of combo guns as well. Who makes/made it and what is that bottom barrel? I can make out the top 2 but not the third

rice paddy daddy
10-27-2009, 12:00 PM
If I could only grab from the safe and run it would be my Remington made 1903A3 and my Colt Government Model 45 ACP.
But then, I'm not going to run anywhere. I've wanted a small homestead in the pines for a long time, now that I've got one it's as good a place to die as any, and better than most.

DM
10-27-2009, 01:20 PM
Hey dm

That's a great looking firearm!! I'm a fan of combo guns as well. Who makes/made it and what is that bottom barrel? I can make out the top 2 but not the third

Hey there,

The maker is Krieghoff,

http://www.fototime.com/F8BC345CD766244/standard.jpg

The bottom bbl is 8x57 JRS, which is really just a "rimmed" 8x57 mauser. I handload 200 NP's to 2,550fps, and they have worked out VERY well for me.

http://www.fototime.com/35A1F5A52508463/standard.jpg

I really like the way it breaks down into a soft case, and everything easily fits into my pack,

http://www.fototime.com/EED0D1139B4F1A4/standard.jpg

In a survival situation, it's absolutely the gun i'd grab "if" i was headed out the door...

DM

Fortyfour
12-19-2009, 04:55 PM
I live in the middle of nowhere, not very many miles from Mt St Helens. My neighbors are deer, elk, cats and bear. My own particular battery revolves around .44 rifles and .44 pistols. To help out a Savage 24 in 30-30/20 ga gets the job done! Add to that 100's and 100's of pounds of WW's and lead, powder and primers. My freezer is full of elk and deer this winter.

44

longshot
12-20-2009, 01:10 AM
http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/vb/showthread.php?t=15868

this is what i have right now, looking to add a pump 12 another .30 and maybe another .22.

for here that should be enough


dean

otobesane1
12-22-2009, 02:40 AM
Longshot! What happened? Someone went and put locks on all your long guns. Are there LIBTARDS in your neighborhood? How could someone do such a thing?

Michael32170
12-22-2009, 11:35 AM
I live in a rural area, not as rural as some of you but about as rural as North Carolina gets. My first choice for country life is a Marlin 336 in 30-30 for many reasons including accuracy, easy to find ammo (you can find a box of ammo in most country stores) and it will take deer, bear and coyotes without a problem. My second rifle is a Henry .22 lever action. Third a good solid pump shotgun. I just bought a NEF Partner Pump 12ga (low cost and very well made).

Some folks like survival rifles in military calibers .223, 7.62x39, and 7.62x54R. These are all good calibers but I have seen ammo scares where you could not find a box anywhere. If you like these calibers it would be wise to stock back a few cases of ammo for just in case.

Reads like I wrote it.

If you haven't, you may want to check out the Hornady Leverevolution ammo. It almost triples the effective range of your 30 - 30.

Mr.B
12-22-2009, 11:28 PM
As in Survival I was living like a mountain man up in the hills or got stuck out in the woods, Id prefer my Savage-24, 22LR/20 Gauage.

Survival as in like Zombies attack? One of my Mosin Nagants or my Indian Lee-Enfield in 7.62x51 NATO.

-B

DM
12-23-2009, 01:34 AM
Reads like I wrote it.

If you haven't, you may want to check out the Hornady Leverevolution ammo. It almost triples the effective range of your 30 - 30.


A 30-30 Win. is a 150 yard deer rifle, i can't see the Hornandy pushing that out to 400 yards! It does shoot flatter than the RN loads though.

DM

Michael32170
12-23-2009, 02:08 PM
A 30-30 Win. is a 150 yard deer rifle, i can't see the Hornandy pushing that out to 400 yards! It does shoot flatter than the RN loads though.

DM

Most experts (TV) suggest a rifle should have at least 1000 ft lbs of energy to kill a deer. 30 - 30 doesn't go much past 100 yards based on this. This new ammo moves that energy point out to 300 yards according to the Horady data. Understandable, the less energy you have at the time of impact, the more accurate you have to be in selecting a vital organ.

rice paddy daddy
12-23-2009, 06:56 PM
Most experts (TV) suggest a rifle should have at least 1000 ft lbs of energy to kill a deer.
Not necessarily true. Around here the good ol boys who poach at night with a light usually are caught with a 22 magnum.

longshot
12-26-2009, 12:32 AM
Longshot! What happened? Someone went and put locks on all your long guns. Are there LIBTARDS in your neighborhood? How could someone do such a thing?

LOL this is Canada, we have draconian storage laws. when not in use and stored they have to be locked. if the "zombies" are about i guess they would be in use? *wink*

dean

DM
12-26-2009, 01:01 AM
Most experts (TV) suggest a rifle should have at least 1000 ft lbs of energy to kill a deer. 30 - 30 doesn't go much past 100 yards based on this. This new ammo moves that energy point out to 300 yards according to the Horady data. Understandable, the less energy you have at the time of impact, the more accurate you have to be in selecting a vital organ.

Care to stand a buck out 150 yards in front of me when i have a 30-30 loaded with 170's in it? I bet you we'd be eating venison for supper EVERY time. BUT, i wouldn't shoot at one at 300 yards, even if it was loaded with the Hornadys.

I go by MY experiences, and of those experienced folks i've hunted with, not what someone said on TV.

DM

essayons4791
12-26-2009, 01:50 AM
Well,

Here's my choices- rural Ohio Valley area.

AK-47
Winchester 97 (12ga)
bolt action .22, yugoslav
S&W Model 10 .38 special
Savage 110, 30/06

I have more, but these ones are "the bottom line". All the others are just cool factor. There is nothing on two legs or four I can't handle with the above choices.

dksac2
02-10-2010, 06:12 AM
I think that having several weapons is a god choice. A 12 Ga pump or semi auto. I like the idea of a mossberg 500 or 835. You can change from full stock to pistol grip or get a folder stock as well as a short barrel and a longer one for hunting purposes. A 30-30 because ammo is easy to find. A 45 auto. Either a Colt type or a Glock with the replacement barrel with standard rifleing so that you can shoot cast bullets and a .357 revolver. With the .357, you can shoot either the full .357 loads or 38 special ammo which is easier to find. A 9mm semi auto is easy to find ammo for also. For an assualt rifle, I like the Ruger mini 14 in .223 or the SKS. In many areas ammo is easy to find for both calibers and both are reliable as the day is long. Lastly a good long range centerfire rifle in .308 or 30-06, again because ammo is easy to find. Either caliber will drop a dear, elk or moose at a good distance. A Savage rifle would be my first choice due to the accuracy and price. With the Savage rifle you can change calibers in either short or long acton. You just need another barrel, a magazine, a headspace guage and barrel nut wrench and another bolt head depending on the caliber. A 22 rimfire rifle is also a must.
This combo gives you everything you need in most self defense and hunting situations. Having weapons that shoot military calibers is best because it is the most readily available ammo. The only exception is the 30-30 and 22 LR, ammo is available just about anywhere for these rifles. If you hand load and cast bullets and have a good supply of lead, powder and primers, calibers such as the 30-30 and 45-70 are great. You can also cast bullets and reload for just about any pistol or revolver. Extra ammo is also a good barter item. You are talking 4 or 5 weapons to cover just about any situation. Having extra weapons and people in you home who know how to use them gives you extra firepower in case a group of people want to take what you have. 3 to 5 people placed in a manner where they are getting fire from 3 sides will make most find an easier target. In a home, the front, back and sides can be covered all at one time should they decide to come in windows all at the same time. Think tactics ahead of time and stay alive. I pray it never gets that bad, but if it does, you are ready. No one weapon is going to do it all if things go really south.

Best Regards, John k

jim
02-10-2010, 02:51 PM
No offense to the experts, but 400 ftlbs of energy is enough to kill deer in the 150 lb range. Maybe even larger, but I haven't shot any that size yet. A .22LR placed in the neck will drop most animals in their tracks... or so I hear.

jim

BUBSDAD
02-11-2010, 10:45 PM
I live in rural Arkansas (no bear, mtn.lion, or moose around here) my basics are :
Rem 870 12 ga.
Marlin 336 in 30-30
Ruger 10/22
New England single shot .410
Ruger 22/45
I want badly to buy my papaw's S&W 357 mag from mamaw, but cant find a way to broach the subject without getting a family fued started, so I am without a large caliber handgun right now.
For carrying i have just purchased a Kel-Tec PF-9. (A real pain in the palm after 100 practice rounds)
My wish list goes on and on but these are what I have.

kawalekm
02-15-2010, 12:36 PM
The bottom bbl is 8x57 JRS, which is really just a "rimmed" 8x57 mauser. I handload 200 NP's to 2,550fps, and they have worked out VERY well for me.
DM

Hi DM
Could you talk a bit about how you developed this load? I'm not familar with the rimmed 8X57, but looking at the regular 8X57 data this looks very hot. For my 8X57 I'm in the process of developing a 150 grain soft point load for deer hunting. How would loading for your rimmed 8 in your break-action differ from my rimless in a Yugo24?

DM
02-15-2010, 12:57 PM
Hi DM
Could you talk a bit about how you developed this load? I'm not familar with the rimmed 8X57, but looking at the regular 8X57 data this looks very hot. For my 8X57 I'm in the process of developing a 150 grain soft point load for deer hunting. How would loading for your rimmed 8 in your break-action differ from my rimless in a Yugo24?

I've never loaded for a yugo, and the Krieghoff i have is one of the strongest break opens of it's type ever made. I worked that load up back in the early 80's, and used a chronograph, and case head expansion while doing so. The cases fall out of the chamber... Also, H205 seems to be made for cases of this size, too bad it's no longer available.

I use to shoot that load a bit hotter than i do now, but i backed off a little, for long term use and it's the load i'll be using as long as i fire this gun. It's the best "one load for everything" i've found in this cartridge, and i have harvested everything from moose being the biggest on down to coyotes. The 200NP's worked very good in moose, and i do get some expansion in the small animals too. I just can't expect better performance than that.

DM

Theyeti
02-16-2010, 04:09 AM
Well, the more I've thought about it it's come down to ammo and not the actual gun itself...though it plays for 50% of the concern ;).

So it goes like this for me. .308/7.56x51 NATO, .223/5.56mm NATO, .45 ACP, 12 gauge, and of course .22LR. All of these rounds are effective and available with 1000's of different guns and pistols to choose from. I don't see any real debate beyond that. Oh you might throw in 9mm if that is necessary.

recoilless_57mm
02-16-2010, 03:31 PM
I would ask myself the question, what am I intending to use it for? If it is personal protection then you have to ask in the city, suburbs or country. If it is for hunting gathering in the case of an emergency then I would choose an over under 410-22-long rifle. It gives me the best of both worlds. If it is for personal protection in the home and car then I would choose a revolver in the 38cal range. It give you control and dependability. Even a child can be taught to shoot a 38 with standard loads.

I don't beleave in using +P etc. for home protection. I would rather teach my wife & children to make the shots count should it ever come to that. I pray it never does. I don't care for semi-autos for protection purposes in the home because there is to much going on with them. ie., clip, safety, jams, etc.. In time of need you don't want to be fumbling with a clip or clearing a jam. I don't care what anyone say about a loaded and locked gun. If you don't have it loaded and ready to go, it is useless as protection. Get a "gun safe" to put it in and practice accessing it. Practice, practice, practice. There is no better way to prepare.

Why I would choose a 410-22 over and under. The 410 can be used as a shootgun. With slugs you can take down game the size of deer and a bit larger. The 22 is good for smaller game. It is in my opinion the best all around match for survival. Once again properly fit it out with sights and what have you.

A firearm will only function as good as the person using it and taking care of it. Treat it with great respect. Clean it like you love it. Make sure all others treat it the same way. OT

jim
02-17-2010, 02:56 PM
If I could only keep one, it would be my Ruger 77/22 bolt action .22, integrally suppressed by AWC. Very accurate, and so quiet you can actually hear the firing pin hit the primer. I keep discovering more and more applications for bullets that arrive unannounced. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YHA2qCNON4&feature=related

Not trying to start a fight, and perhaps I'm missing something. But, assuming this is a licensed NFA firearm, is there any reason that you will still have this if and when TSHTF? It's getting difficult enough to have even a normal firearm, but something that is licensed and the feds can come in any time they like to examine or remove at their pleasure would seem like not a good thing to count on IMHO. What would you use if TSHTF after you've had to give up the expensive toys?

I myself, keep a quality pellet gun, but that's not for everyone in every circumstance.

jim

recoilless_57mm
02-17-2010, 06:06 PM
Jim: Like you I am not trying to start any arguements. If my history serves me correctly, sooner or later your pellet rifle will fall under the jack-booted thugs presently pushing gun control. At that time I want something that covers as many areas of survival as possible. For me this would not be pellet rifle. I know pellet firing arms have come a long way since the 50's & 60's. However, if you read what constitutes a firearm it is any device that fires a projectile by the means of an expanding gas. It goes on in greater detail. My point is why limit yourself?

By the way if the fellow in the youtube video is not legal I am sure he regrets it today. Supressors are legal to own. All you have to do is pay money to the KING & pass a background check.

As far as the fed knocking on your door. Make no mistake if they want to they will, firearms or no firearms. All any of us have to be is a threat to the folks handing down the rules.

I know I am going to offend a certain number of folks here. But, if TSHTF as they say it might. Then it means we have failed to pull our heads from the sand and fight for our Constitution & Bill of rights in a timely manner. At that point folks will be called upon to make some very serious choices.

If we remain to be free and live our lives peacefully then all this will be a non issue. OT

CountryGuy
02-18-2010, 04:25 AM
Most experts (TV) suggest a rifle should have at least 1000 ft lbs of energy to kill a deer. 30 - 30 doesn't go much past 100 yards based on this. This new ammo moves that energy point out to 300 yards according to the Horady data. Understandable, the less energy you have at the time of impact, the more accurate you have to be in selecting a vital organ.

Has anyone shot up some of the Hornady Leverevolution in 30-30? I've read some articles and I've seen the stats but I'm wondering what real world shows. I'd like to get some but the price just to take it to the range and blast away makes me cringe.

So if anyone has used it I'd be interested to see if you tried moving the distance out and what kind of accuracy it held? Were you able to push it out to 200 or 300 yds as some have suggested or did you find that it only gained 25 or 50yds?

Diavolicchio
02-18-2010, 08:24 PM
I live in rural Arkansas (no bear, mtn.lion, or moose around here) my basics are :
Rem 870 12 ga.
Marlin 336 in 30-30
Ruger 10/22
New England single shot .410
Ruger 22/45
I want badly to buy my papaw's S&W 357 mag from mamaw, but cant find a way to broach the subject without getting a family fued started, so I am without a large caliber handgun right now.
For carrying i have just purchased a Kel-Tec PF-9.

Out of curiosity, why do you NEED so many guns?

Who do you think is out to get you?


John

Rick
02-18-2010, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by BUBSDAD http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/vb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/vb/showthread.php?p=198573#post198573)
I live in rural Arkansas (no bear, mtn.lion, or moose around here) my basics are :
Rem 870 12 ga.
Marlin 336 in 30-30
Ruger 10/22
New England single shot .410
Ruger 22/45
I want badly to buy my papaw's S&W 357 mag from mamaw, but cant find a way to broach the subject without getting a family fued started, so I am without a large caliber handgun right now.
For carrying i have just purchased a Kel-Tec PF-9.

That seems to me to be a well rounded battery, Bubsdad. I would add another centerfire rifle like a Garand, M1A, or FAL, in addition to a center fire pistol.

Each weapon has it's intended use and it looks like you have all the bases covered. Can't have too many lawyers, guns, or money (as the old song goes)

;)

Diavolicchio
02-18-2010, 10:58 PM
The topic is "Ideal Survival Guns for your Situation," not "List all the guns you own."

How bad could your situation be that you need that many guns? If you've got 6 guns now and feel you need a 7th, what is the threat against your survival?


John

ArmySGT.
02-19-2010, 04:51 AM
The topic is "Ideal Survival Guns for your Situation," not "List all the guns you own."

How bad could your situation be that you need that many guns? If you've got 6 guns now and feel you need a 7th, what is the threat against your survival?


John

Liberals with attitudes like yours for starters.

Diavolicchio
02-19-2010, 05:27 AM
Liberals with attitudes like yours for starters.

You're that threatened by me that you'd need seven guns in your home?

That's not good.


John

MissouriFree
02-19-2010, 08:05 AM
The topic is "Ideal Survival Guns for your Situation," not "List all the guns you own."

How bad could your situation be that you need that many guns? If you've got 6 guns now and feel you need a 7th, what is the threat against your survival?


John

John
Not on the topic survuval your second question begs the question but why do you think there must be a threat to have 7 guns 50 guns or a 1000 guns ?
Mo

Diavolicchio
02-19-2010, 09:19 AM
John
Not on the topic survuval your second question begs the question but why do you think there must be a threat to 7 guns 50 guns or a 1000 guns ?
Mo

Mo,

My questions WERE tied together and both addressing the topic of this thread. They weren't about owning guns in general.

If someone is buying guns for survival--as the topic of this thread implies--and they feel they need seven guns to protect themselves, they must feel threatened by something. Just curious what that something might be.


John

Rick
02-19-2010, 10:49 AM
What is the best tool to build a house, a hammer or a saw? Pick one.

Guns are just tools; they are not, in and of themselves evil. Each weapon Bubsdad listed has its own purpose. You wouldn't want to shoot a rabbit for supper using a .30-30 and it would be difficult to bring down a Grouse on the wing with a .22 rifle, etc, etc.

Being as it is a fallen world, sometimes we need to protect ourselves, families, and innocents abroad from predators. Being a survial minded individual, I cannot predict the future so chose to be prepare for as many possible scenarios as possible with my limited time and money.

In addition to being fine tools, guns are also fun to collect and shoot (albeit a litttle expensive to feed :) ) For that reason, one of my favorite guns is the lowly .22 for plinking - cheap ammo and don't have to collect the brass. Shooting is fun.

DM
02-19-2010, 11:24 AM
Mo,

My questions WERE tied together and both addressing the topic of this thread. They weren't about owning guns in general.

If someone is buying guns for survival--as the topic of this thread implies--and they feel they need seven guns to protect themselves, they must feel threatened by something. Just curious what that something might be.


John

There's a several faults in your thinking, and here's just a couple of them.

1. survival "isn't" just about shooting people.

2. who says he will be the "only" person using those guns?

3. ever heard of a back up weapon, incase one happens to fail?

DM

Diavolicchio
02-19-2010, 04:02 PM
There's a several faults in your thinking, and here's just a couple of them.

1. survival "isn't" just about shooting people.

2. who says he will be the "only" person using those guns?

3. ever heard of a back up weapon, incase one happens to fail?

DM


A. I never said anything about shooting people. I simply asked why 1 person needed 7 guns for survival.

B. There was no WE in the post that I originally responded to. Just a few I's and My's.

C. Having one back up is reasonable. Having six back ups? Not so much.



John

rice paddy daddy
02-19-2010, 06:09 PM
Let's see now. By your reasoning, no one NEEDS a computer to communicate when pencil and paper will do. Why do you NEED a computer? Obviously, you don't NEED one, but you WANT one and are legally and morally free to do so.
So, if I have 13 shotguns (I do), plus "several" pistols and "some" rifles, what business is it of yours? If you are AFRAID of firearms, that's YOUR problem not mine.
Why are liberals always trying to run other peoples lives?

recoilless_57mm
02-19-2010, 06:12 PM
Sorry John, When I hear that someone has more than one gun it does not concern me. When I hear someone say, you should have only a reasonalble number of firearms or only responsible people should have firearms. I begin to ask the question what is this persons motives? I don't know what your interests are in life. I am sure there is something you have a passion for. Perhaps you should have less of that passionate item. My point is, some folks like one thing some folks like another. I try not to find fault with that other persons interests.

On the other hand if you feel you must control other people and what they have. Perhaps it is you that is feeling threatened. What is it that threatens you?

OT

Diavolicchio
02-19-2010, 06:24 PM
Let's see now. By your reasoning, no one NEEDS a computer to communicate when pencil and paper will do. Why do you NEED a computer? Obviously, you don't NEED one, but you WANT one and are legally and morally free to do so.

My point though is that I don't have 7 computers while trying to convince myself I need even more.

I have one, with an old back-up in case I need it.


John

Diavolicchio
02-19-2010, 06:33 PM
Sorry John, When I hear that someone has more than one gun it does not concern me. When I hear someone say, you should have only a reasonalble number of firearms or only responsible people should have firearms. I begin to ask the question what is this persons motives? I don't know what your interests are in life. I am sure there is something you have a passion for. Perhaps you should have less of that passionate item. My point is, some folks like one thing some folks like another. I try not to find fault with that other persons interests.

On the other hand if you feel you must control other people and what they have. Perhaps it is you that is feeling threatened. What is it that threatens you?

OT

OT:

I'm not threatened one way or the other. I'm just better trying to understand something.

The focus of this thread isn't people who collect guns for enjoyment. This thread is about Ideal Survival Guns For Your Situation. We're not talking about here about buying guns as big boy toys to be admired from time to time or to shoot the occasional possum. What we're addressing here are the guns people have for survival given their particular situation.

I'm just trying to better understand why one person would need seven guns to protect themselves.



John

Rick
02-19-2010, 06:38 PM
Let's forget about this, we NEED to address this much bigger problem.

Rice Paddy Daddy, Dude, only 13 shotguns? :eek:

I trip over 13 shotguns just getting to my gun safe.

You need to play catch-up here. Maybe we can start a fund.

:D

recoilless_57mm
02-19-2010, 06:41 PM
John: Can those people be one and the same? Must all things fit into a narrow set of limits? Need we shave every word so close?

It would appear that you are the threatened one. JMO

OT

rice paddy daddy
02-19-2010, 07:12 PM
OT:

I'm not threatened one way or the other. I'm just better trying to understand something.

The focus of this thread isn't people who collect guns for enjoyment. This thread is about Ideal Survival Guns For Your Situation. We're not talking about here about buying guns as big boy toys to be admired from time to time or to shoot the occasional possum. What we're addressing here are the guns people have for survival given their particular situation.

I'm just trying to better understand why one person would need seven guns to protect themselves.



John
I live in a rural area. I'm not "bugging out" anywhere, for any reason. Therefore, Ideal Survival Guns For My Situation could very well include many firearms from 22 LR handguns to 44 magnum handguns to 22 Hornet rifles to 45/70 rifles to................................
My situation. My choice. I thought liberals were all about choice. Obviously, only when they agree with that choice.

rice paddy daddy
02-19-2010, 07:15 PM
Let's forget about this, we NEED to address this much bigger problem.

Rice Paddy Daddy, Dude, only 13 shotguns? :eek:

I trip over 13 shotguns just getting to my gun safe.

You need to play catch-up here. Maybe we can start a fund.

:D
Yeah, sad isn't it? They are lagging behind the pistols and rifles. I hear the Garand chuckling in the closet about the puny pumpgun line up and my heart just breaks. :p

Rick
02-19-2010, 07:30 PM
BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM ping

The sound of freedom, man.

Molon Labe, and all that good stuff.

:D

Diavolicchio
02-19-2010, 08:13 PM
I thought liberals were all about choice. Obviously, only when they agree with that choice.

Liberals with attitudes like yours for starters.


Why are liberals always trying to run other peoples lives?


Who said I was a Liberal? And based upon what? The fact I don't have a Git R Done bumper sticker on the back of a rusty F150 that's blaring Foghat on an 8-Track? It can't be about politics, because I've never acknowledged mine.

I find it comical that someone who doesn't agree with you lock, stock and barrel on here is immediately classified as a Liberal, whatever that term means. It appears that a Liberal may simply be a catch-all term for anyone whom you find threatening. But I don't want to assume that.

So that I'll better understand: Just what IS a Liberal? Would you care to take a stab at defining it?



John

ArmySGT.
02-19-2010, 09:33 PM
I live in rural Arkansas (no bear, mtn.lion, or moose around here) my basics are : Might be surprised what you have livin there. The humidity, the heat, and the chiggers keep me out of there.

Rem 870 12 ga. Here's your good all around homestead gun right there. With an 18.5 inch barrel its good for two and four legged chicken thieves (or gas thieves), and with a the long barrel you can hunt plevty of birds with it. Just remember to put the rod back in the magazine so it only holds three when you hunt.

Marlin 336 in 30-30 Thats a nice deer gun right there especially in the brush where shots are under a hundred. If you find yourself in a fight with two legged critters. remember shoot two reload two. this tops the gun off all the time. Then you don't find yourself dry when you need it most. Practice at the range, you can load through the gate without looking, so pratice scanning for targets.
Ruger 10/22 Don't care for them myself, but alot of people do and there are thousands and every kind of aftermarket part too. I prefer a bolt action .22LR. You concentrate more and make each shot count. I shoot CBs through my JC higgins and it is quieter than an air rifle.
New England single shot .410 I trade this away, you have a better shotgun in the 870.
Ruger 22/45 If you have this forget the .357 and sell the PF-9. Then buy a Rock Island Arms (RIA) Govt model M1911A1. Can't go wrong with a .45 ACP when things go bad. The Ruger 22/45 was made to accompany this. The feel of the grip and the controls are same as the 1911A1 and you can practice with cheaper .22lr.

So yeah I would sell the PF-9, The NEF single, and forget about the .357 for now and get the RIA.


I want badly to buy my papaw's S&W 357 mag from mamaw, but cant find a way to broach the subject without getting a family fued started, so I am without a large caliber handgun right now.
For carrying i have just purchased a Kel-Tec PF-9. (A real pain in the palm after 100 practice rounds)
My wish list goes on and on but these are what I have. I would just write a nice letter and tell her how you are interested. Especially if it has the receipt and the box to go with it. Makes it more valuable as a collector piece and tell them you don't want a family heirloom like this to get let go at auction.

ArmySGT.
02-19-2010, 09:42 PM
Good enough answer as any. This enough reality for anyone?

219

Hmmmm well the attachment software sucks, but the for the slow kids in the class that don't understand cut and paste. They just ate paste.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j218/ArmySGT_photos/Webstuff/MillionMomMarch.gif

Diavolicchio
02-19-2010, 09:46 PM
Good enough answer as any. This enough reality for anyone?

219

Actually, it's not a good answer at all. It's just a tired photo intended to shock. Nothing more.

If you're going to use a word like Liberal with such frequency, don't you think should be able to clearly and succinctly define it?



John

recoilless_57mm
02-19-2010, 11:13 PM
John: You posted that you are not threatened. You are simply trying to understand "something". Is it to much to ask what that something is? Perhaps if you can explain "something" to us we can get on with helping you with your question. If however, you are in fact a liberal or just want to argue for arguements sake, what is the point of continueing this thread?

OT

Diavolicchio
02-19-2010, 11:29 PM
John: You posted that you are not threatened. You are simply trying to understand "something". Is it to much to ask what that something is? Perhaps if you can explain "something" to us we can get on with helping you with your question. If however, you are in fact a liberal or just want to argue for arguements sake, what is the point of continueing this thread?

OT

OT:

Read my previous posts in this thread. I'm clear about what I'm trying to better understand. Actually, I state it a few times. If you still can't sort it out, let me know, and I'll cut and paste it into a subsequent post.

Oh, and it would help if you defined what you mean by me being a Liberal. The word is pretty nebulous to me. Thanks.


John

Teg
02-19-2010, 11:42 PM
The topic is "Ideal Survival Guns for your Situation," not "List all the guns you own."

How bad could your situation be that you need that many guns? If you've got 6 guns now and feel you need a 7th, what is the threat against your survival?


John

It's not all about feeling threatened, think of it more as different tools for different jobs.

The animosity you are now experiencing is simply the natural result one sees in a firearm related forum when they make statements about someone owning too many guns or implying the ownership of said guns is due to paranoia, statements like this are generally going to be perceived as liberal gun control statements, regardless of your original intent.

Diavolicchio
02-20-2010, 12:02 AM
It's not all about feeling threatened, think of it more as different tools for different jobs.

The animosity you are now experiencing is simply the natural result one sees in a firearm related forum when they make statements about someone owning too many guns or implying the ownership of said guns is due to paranoia, statements like this are generally going to be perceived as liberal gun control statements, regardless of your original intent.


Teg:

If this thread were simply: "Tell us about the guns you own," I wouldn't have given a number of these responses a second thought. Tons of people collect guns. Many do it simply for the enjoyment one gets from collecting anything. Others likely collect guns as an unfortunate overcompensation for something they may be lacking.

But given that this thread is specifically about the guns people have for survival, one can't help but wonder why someone would need over a half dozen for that purpose alone. It begs the question: What's the imminent threat?

So I simply asked the question.


John

Teg
02-20-2010, 12:18 AM
Teg:

If this thread were simply: "Tell us about the guns you own," I wouldn't have given a number of these responses a second thought. Tons of people collect guns. Many do it simply for the enjoyment one gets from collecting anything. Others likely collect guns as an unfortunate overcompensation for something they may be lacking.

But given that this thread is specifically about the guns people have for survival, one can't help but wonder why someone would need over a half dozen for that purpose alone. It begs the question: What's the imminent threat?

So I simply asked the question.


John

In the context of this thread you would have to think of them as tools, each weapon is a tool with a different use. Yes any gun can kill a person but survival isn't always about killing another person, if you are in a survival situation and hunting for your food a 30-06 is great for deer hunting but it is not the best tool for squirrel hunting and reverse can be said for say a .410 shotgun, thus the need for more than one weapon.

Not sure if this helps or not but it makes sense to me and it's how I convince my wife that I need multiple weapons. ;)

dademoss
02-20-2010, 12:43 AM
It's different types of the same tool to match the job at hand.

I certainly own more than 1 kind of hammer, more than 1 pot in the kitchen, more than one kind of shovel for the garden, and more than one gun in the safe.

All hammers will drive a nail, but a sledge is suited to a large spike, and a tackhammer is suited to tacks.

I can cook a bit of soup in a 12 quart stock pot, but that isn't it's best use.

Same with a weapon as any other tool, if you can suit a tool to the job at hand it's usually better than making do with a one size fits all.

recoilless_57mm
02-20-2010, 01:54 AM
To further argue how many firearms, tools or what have you to assure ones survival is in my opinion sophist and trolling. I see no further value in continuing this thread.

Diavolicchio
02-20-2010, 02:01 AM
To further argue how many firearms, tools or what have you to assure ones survival is in my opinion sophist and trolling. I see no further value in continuing this thread.

I didn't think you'd be able to define Liberal. I just needed it confirmed.

Sorry to be such a threat.

Cheers,




John

Diavolicchio
02-20-2010, 02:05 AM
In the context of this thread you would have to think of them as tools, each weapon is a tool with a different use. Yes any gun can kill a person but survival isn't always about killing another person, if you are in a survival situation and hunting for your food a 30-06 is great for deer hunting but it is not the best tool for squirrel hunting and reverse can be said for say a .410 shotgun, thus the need for more than one weapon.

Not sure if this helps or not but it makes sense to me and it's how I convince my wife that I need multiple weapons. ;)


Teg:

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for being so clear.


John

Teg
02-20-2010, 02:08 AM
Teg:

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for being so clear.


John

Glad to help.

Diavolicchio
02-20-2010, 02:10 AM
It's different types of the same tool to match the job at hand.

I certainly own more than 1 kind of hammer, more than 1 pot in the kitchen, more than one kind of shovel for the garden, and more than one gun in the safe.

All hammers will drive a nail, but a sledge is suited to a large spike, and a tackhammer is suited to tacks.

I can cook a bit of soup in a 12 quart stock pot, but that isn't it's best use.

Same with a weapon as any other tool, if you can suit a tool to the job at hand it's usually better than making do with a one size fits all.


Dademoss:

Great analogy. Makes total sense. I appreciate the response.



John

DM
02-20-2010, 02:25 AM
To further argue how many firearms, tools or what have you to assure ones survival is in my opinion sophist and trolling. I see no further value in continuing this thread.

I agree, that's what it looks like he is up to, and that's why i didn't answer him.

DM

flatblack
02-20-2010, 04:49 AM
So this thread got kind of mucked up with a bunch of this and that...too bad.
It had a good premise, and some good inputs at the start.


I came to say that I have pretty much settled on the shotgun as my "go to" gun. I like weapons and things that go boom. I make no apologies for that. I have bought, owned, shot, and sold a lot of very nice firearms. Always looking for that 'something' I suppose. Certainly contributing to the "churn" of the second hard market, at any rate. :D

It turns out though, that the best, most handiest, simplest, easy to use, good results givin, versatile, no fuss, deadly force projecting tool I have come across is the old fashioned pump shotgun.

It just works.

For me anyway. Which is what this thread was all about originally, what guns work the best for your and your given circumstances.

Seriously, I find that all my critter blasting and home defense needs are met with a simple pump shotgun. I have found that 20 Ga suits my purposes just fine. It's nice for squirrel hunting with 7-1/2 shot, great for larger mammals using #4 shot, and (hopefully I'll never have to find out for sure!) deadly on home invaders with 00 buckshot.

So that's my two cents. All the tactical stuff is neat, but when it comes down to a good old fashioned blasting, a pump action shotgun is the cat's meow.

Diavolicchio
02-20-2010, 08:16 PM
For the record, I've got ONE gun, and it's a SAKO TRG-42 .338 Lapua Mag.

I even use it to fish.



John

MooseToo
02-20-2010, 08:34 PM
I agree, that's what it looks like he is up to, and that's why i didn't answer him.

DM

don't abandon an interesting thread because of one poster - it's not at all hard to totally ignore his input - a person cannot dominate a thread when he's talking to himself -

Diavolicchio
02-20-2010, 09:41 PM
And to think, all I did was ask someone to define what they meant by a Liberal. Go figure. . .



John

jim
02-21-2010, 06:11 PM
My favorite for this purpose is a quality bolt action .22LR with a 1X4 or fixed 4X scope. I used to prefer iron sights, but my old eyes ain't what they used to be. With this rig I can kill whatever I need to on the North American contenent except for bear and the larger hogs. Maybe even the hogs if I can shoot from a tree stand or other protected area.

hunter63
02-21-2010, 06:35 PM
Remington 870 for anything.
There I'm right, end of thread.......y'all qiute playing nice a long time ago.

GoodDaughter
02-21-2010, 08:05 PM
I'm by no means an expert--I leave that to dh. But MY firearms of choice are my Dan Wesson .357, my .257 Roberts (lightweight and accurate) a Swedish Mauser dh gave me (EXTREMELY accurate even after multiple shots) a little .22 carbine (don't know what 'brand') and a little .38 Rossi.

Generic weapons, I know. I'm not into the customized, sporterized stuff dh is. All I need to know is how the weapon handles and that I am proficient with it. {;^) Multiple guns for multiple situations, ya?

yardburd
02-21-2010, 09:28 PM
Best self defense weapon? Whatever you have put 5,000 rounds through and can hit the target with your eyes closed. Literally. Would you rather be hit with a .22 or missed by a .44 Mag?

randallhilton
02-22-2010, 04:06 AM
At the risk of being on topic. . .

I think I've posted on this thread but if I did, I think I'm revising my position a bit.

If we're talking 'survival' then personal protection is going to supersede hunting - at least in my book. Game will be gone long before the hunters are.

This leans me towards a 12ga shot gun with assorted rounds if I had to pick just one arm. I would (theoretically, of course) stock up on buck shot (for bucks and Buck, or Billy or whomever), deer slugs, bird shot, duck shot etc.

rice paddy daddy
02-22-2010, 01:57 PM
Remington 870 for anything.
There I'm right, end of thread.......y'all qiute playing nice a long time ago.
:D
Nah, too high tech! Basic survival weapon: Use your bayonet (you have one, don't you?) to cut a sturdy stick, and using part of your bootlace (you do always wear 72" laces, just for this purpose, right?) attach said bayonet to stick to make a spear. Voila! You now have a survival weapon capable of doing everything.

DM
02-22-2010, 03:47 PM
The problem with only a shotgun is, limited range. For sure it depends on where you live, but around here, i want something that when needed, will reach out further.

DM

BUBSDAD
02-28-2010, 02:31 PM
I came back to look at other peoples responses and it seems that john is interested in why one person would need more than one gun.

If I lived alone and TSHTF and survival is my goal I will grab the 870, but, I have a family and I expect the whole bunch of us to survive. My wife is a beast with the 10/22, same for my 8 yo boy. My little girl is not shooting yet but when she gets a few years under her belt she'll be shooting a .22.

My boy is hell on squirrels with the .410, thats supper if times get bad. the 12ga is too much for him.

John, things arent perfect and they might get worse. If someday survival is in question i want to give my whole family the opportunity to survive, so I'll buy more guns as my children grow up and I will teach them how to use them responsably. If the time comes that we need guns to survive we will be much better off with the family working together than i would be as a lone wolf.

In the meantime, my son and I will continue to blow up cans in the back yard and have a big 'ol time with our multiple firearms.

Also, whats wrong with listening to foghat on the 8-track while chuggin beer in my f-150 with the git-r-done bumpersticker.

Best wishes
bubsdad

Diavolicchio
02-28-2010, 06:13 PM
I came back to look at other peoples responses and it seems that john is interested in why one person would need more than one gun.

Actually, your observation isn't quite correct. I never once stated that the goal should be to just have one gun; I merely stated that I only have one.

I was simply curious why someone would need SEVEN guns to survive. And I'm distinguishing between having guns for survival and having guns just because you collect them and think they're cool. Yes, one could have guns for both, but the question was what is/are your ideal survival gun(s) for your situation.

Seven guns for survival just seems a bit excessive. I couldn't help but wonder what the perceived threat was to justify them all.

I appreciate your response.


John

hunter63
02-28-2010, 10:20 PM
.......Seven guns for survival just seems a bit excessive. I couldn't help but wonder what the perceived threat was to justify them all.

I appreciate your response.John

LOL, thats not even a good start............
Carry on.

Bare
03-01-2010, 11:58 AM
I missed all the excitement but I thought I'd say my piece.

I have a bunch of guns. If I had to reach for one or two, I'd grab my shotgun and a 22 or 38 pistol. Why? I listened to a lot of the old folks when I was growing up and I still do today. Let me tell you a short story.

My paternal Grandfather was 6'5" of English heritage. He ran a freight service out West at the turn of the last century. He would travel from Okie City to Wichita and Dodge City. He knew Matt Dillon personally. He had three mule teams, a heavy wagon and a buckboard. It was a common rig for the times. He carried a double barreled shotgun and a Colt Peacemaker holstered to his front left for a right handed cross draw. The shotgun was a black powder with Damascus barrels and his grocery getter. He ate what he could shoot from the seat of his wagon. The pistol was for protection, pure and simple. It was always on him. There were some gun restrictions back then but the LEOs didn't bother him. Most gun laws were there to wrangle drunken cowboys and such. Not all that bad a purpose at the time.

Not a bad lesson if one is inclined to listen.

BUBSDAD
03-01-2010, 01:38 PM
Mo,

and they feel they need seven guns to protect themselves, they must feel threatened by something. Just curious what that something might be.


John

JOHN,

The thread was about "survival", not strictly protection.

bubsdad

Builder Ken
03-01-2010, 02:28 PM
Let me see if I can add to this, if we are talking suvival which we are what are the needs. 1. food 2. protection from other humans 3. protection from critters 4. the ability to conceal 5. the ability to shoot long distances 6. the ability to take out multiple targets in one shot 7. the ability to be as stealthy as possible

Can anyone tell me what one gun can do this, plus the fact that if I want to shoot deer, rabbits and quail I would prefer different guns to get the task done. Also in a survival mode you would be saving everything from the animal including the hide and a single bullet hole is easier to work around than a shotgun blast. But the main reason for having multiple guns for survival is because I can, at least for now. Ken

Fortyfour
03-01-2010, 03:49 PM
I live in the middle of nowhere, not very many miles from Mt St Helens. My neighbors are deer, elk, cats and bear. My own particular battery revolves around .44 rifles and .44 pistols. To help out a Savage 24 in 30-30/20 ga gets the job done! Add to that 100's and 100's of pounds of WW's and lead, powder and primers. My freezer is full of elk and deer this winter.

44

In honor of the way this thread turned, I went out and bought another 3 firearms. A Smith 624 in .44 special (of course!), another Marlin Cowboy in .44 mag and an old 24" 1951 Marlin in 30-30 that is in like new shape. And if my State ever decides be one of those mindless entities that ever restricts me to 1 gun a month, then by all that is Holy, I will make an attempt to BUY ONE GUN EVERY MONTH! Boy, will that ever add up over a few decades........!

The .44 Cowboy is getting a little lighter load in it, a .44 special case, a 255gr RCBS PB cast bullet and 7.5grs Unique. I'm getting 1100fps and 1 hole 10 shot groups at 50m. No recoil, very light report and she sure packs nice on hikes. 9 in the tube (20" version) 1 in the chamber and she packs like a dream with the Williams receiver sight. Powerful enough for deer and cats, man also if it came to being pressed into use for self defense.

I fired a fouling shot in the 30-30 Marlin after mounting a spare Lyman recevier sight. It seemed to impact pretty close to where I was holding so I put up a target and checked to see if it was on paper at 25 yards. Yup, and to top it off the 3 shots touched. So I moved it out to 100m and the 1st 3 shot group was about 6" high, but the group was only 1 3/4"! A little math and sight adjustment and another group was fired, this time 5 shots. The group impact was centered 2" high and went 1 1/4" for the FIVE shots! 9 more 5 shot groups all went between 1 1/2 and 2 1/4", which isn't too bad for 110 yards. The load was Lymans 311041 which weighs 180.5 grs when cast 75/25 WW's + pure lead and 27grs of 3031. Velocity from the 24" barrel was 2059fps which makes this a pretty potent load.

While we don't have a large population of deer within walking distance of my cabin that I live in (we don't have electricity way back here, just a Honda generator), we have mostly elk, we do have quite a few bear and cats which the 30-30 will do nicely for. And while the 30-30 isn't too small for our Roosevelt elk here, I have other lever rifles that will deliver much more energy, for a survival situation where every ounce of meat will be critical, I'll use a heavy loaded .44 rifle or a 45-70.

44

44

jim
03-01-2010, 04:57 PM
Good choices 44. Have you tried a musket load for that .30-30 using light charges of Unique yet? Getting 1,250 fps with that cast slug is a good close range load. You could dublicate the old. 32-40 load of 1400 fps and kill deer at 100 yds or so.

jim

jim
03-01-2010, 04:59 PM
Dademoss:

Great analogy. Makes total sense. I appreciate the response.



John

So, how many new guns have you been convinced to buy after reading this thread? Since most of us learn from others, and some very good ideas have been put forth, what did you learn? Just curious.

jim

MissouriFree
03-01-2010, 05:30 PM
Let me see if I can add to this, if we are talking suvival which we are what are the needs. 1. food 2. protection from other humans 3. protection from critters 4. the ability to conceal 5. the ability to shoot long distances 6. the ability to take out multiple targets in one shot 7. the ability to be as stealthy as possible

Can anyone tell me what one gun can do this, plus the fact that if I want to shoot deer, rabbits and quail I would prefer different guns to get the task done. Also in a survival mode you would be saving everything from the animal including the hide and a single bullet hole is easier to work around than a shotgun blast. But the main reason for having multiple guns for survival is because I can, at least for now. Ken


i am little old now but for you youngsters don't forget to get something sized right for teaching the fine arts to your young'ens. that ought to be good for a couple more. :).... Numbers 8,9,10 ( rifle, shotgun and handgun)

Rick
03-01-2010, 06:03 PM
If I were to choose a minimal battery of weapons, it would be as follows:

M1A .308 w/ 10+ mags (optional scope available)
M4(gery) w/ 10+ mags (and a .22 LR insert)
Remington 870 12 ga. (w/ 28" and 20" bbls)
.45 XD Tactical w/ 3+ mags
Marlin 981T .22 LR (w/ a trigger job)

...and plenty 'o ammo and spare parts

Fortyfour
03-02-2010, 01:00 AM
Good choices 44. Have you tried a musket load for that .30-30 using light charges of Unique yet?


Yep! I've shot 10 grains of Unique for 25+ years with an old .311 150gr PB. I've actually killed a few deer with the load over the years with no problems what so ever. And since I get 'minute of grouse head' accuracy, more than just a few grouse have fallen to this load.

44

jim
03-03-2010, 03:32 PM
Yep! I've shot 10 grains of Unique for 25+ years with an old .311 150gr PB. I've actually killed a few deer with the load over the years with no problems what so ever. And since I get 'minute of grouse head' accuracy, more than just a few grouse have fallen to this load.

44


You da man! I need to use this load more than I have.

Went over to the cast boolits forum, and found tons of info.

jim

Fortyfour
03-03-2010, 05:18 PM
10grs of Unique is a fantastic load in the 30-30.

But even more important, Unique is a fantastic powder in most every cartridge. It can be used in every caliber, every cartridge, cast or jacketed. From 22 hornet to the mighty .458. Calibers such as belted magnums like the 7mm Rem mag, 300 H&H and others like the 244, 30-06 and .35 Whelen will surprise people with their power and accuracy. Unique will push bullets in most every caliber to velocities of 1200 to 2000fps which will keep most homesteaders well fed. My 44's and 444's are fed kegs of Unique!

Unique does well in almost every gauge. I've used 15.5gr in the 20 gauge 7/8 oz loads for near 40 years. I've bird hunted with many shooters who use Unique in the 12 gauge.

Though some will argue 2400 is nearly as good, for MY dollar Unique is the best. A 'Backwoods' homesteader could do a whole lot worse than rely on this powder alone!

44

Swede
03-04-2010, 11:16 AM
If I could have only one gun, it would be a 12 gauge shotgun.

If I were permitted several and I knew I would be where I am now, which is in the NC Piedmont area, I would pick a 12 gauge shotgun, a lever action 45-70, and a .22 bolt action or semi-automatic rifle. This is what I keep in the SUV.

If I didn't know where I would be in the contiguous 48 states, I would opt for a 30-06 and a .22 mag instead of the 45-70 and .22 for the extra range.

If Alaska or Canada were thrown into the mix I would swap the 30-06 for a .338, but I wouldn't fret much if I had to make a go of it with the 30-06.

Swede

Diavolicchio
03-04-2010, 04:23 PM
So, how many new guns have you been convinced to buy after reading this thread? Since most of us learn from others, and some very good ideas have been put forth, what did you learn? Just curious.

jim


Jim:

I've learned that if you're a gun fanatic, you're gonna have a lot of guns. Are they all necessary? Probably not. But clearly that's not the point.

I'm fine with just one, myself. I don't kill stuff for sport, but rather just to keep the huge deer problem on my land to a minimum. Other than that, no other reason to have a gun (or six, for that matter.)



John

hunter63
03-04-2010, 04:44 PM
My wife says that I don't "need" anymore guns, as well.

I feel your pain.

lowetom65
03-04-2010, 10:03 PM
I have tried to concentrate on same ammo.

For home protection I have a 12 gauge.

For hand gun a 9mm and I have a 9mm carbine with a red dot scope. Wife loves the red dot, just point and shoot.

I also have a .22 pistol and 2 .22 rifles. One single shot one semi.

Finally I have an AK-47.

I spent 20 years in the Army shooting the M16/M16A2. I found the weapons to be unreliable.

The AK I have will shoot in any climate and keep shooting regardless of dirt, water, etc...

With this situation I only have to stock 9mm, .22, multiple shot gun loads, and 7.62.

Still a lot of ammo to store but I think it best fits my needs.

flatblack
03-05-2010, 05:33 AM
If I were to choose a minimal battery of weapons, it would be as follows:

M1A .308 w/ 10+ mags (optional scope available)
M4(gery) w/ 10+ mags (and a .22 LR insert)
Remington 870 12 ga. (w/ 28" and 20" bbls)
.45 XD Tactical w/ 3+ mags
Marlin 981T .22 LR (w/ a trigger job)

...and plenty 'o ammo and spare parts


Now all you need is a wheelbarrow and some peanut butter to round out your SHTF survival kit, and you'll be made in the shade! :D

Rick
03-05-2010, 09:44 AM
...and a debarked Chihuahua

:D

I'm buggin in, not out. What would be your minimally complete battery of weapons?

jim
03-05-2010, 02:21 PM
...and a debarked Chihuahua

:D

I'm buggin in, not out. What would be your minimally complete battery of weapons?

You forgot the armor plate up front? };^)

jim
03-05-2010, 02:24 PM
10grs of Unique is a fantastic load in the 30-30.

But even more important, Unique is a fantastic powder in most every cartridge. It can be used in every caliber, every cartridge, cast or jacketed. From 22 hornet to the mighty .458. Calibers such as belted magnums like the 7mm Rem mag, 300 H&H and others like the 244, 30-06 and .35 Whelen will surprise people with their power and accuracy. Unique will push bullets in most every caliber to velocities of 1200 to 2000fps which will keep most homesteaders well fed. My 44's and 444's are fed kegs of Unique!

Unique does well in almost every gauge. I've used 15.5gr in the 20 gauge 7/8 oz loads for near 40 years. I've bird hunted with many shooters who use Unique in the 12 gauge.

Though some will argue 2400 is nearly as good, for MY dollar Unique is the best. A 'Backwoods' homesteader could do a whole lot worse than rely on this powder alone!

44

I have to agree! I would consider Unique a miracle powder considering what it is capable of. I've been using it since 1972, mostly for revolvers, and have never had a complaint.

jim

NotSoFast
03-09-2010, 05:50 AM
Let's see, for survival eh?.
Ideally, person would need a .22LR rifle for small game. Then he would need a shotgun, maybe a 12 gauge, for various types of hunting at relatively close range and/or in brush. For small varmints he might want a small bore centerfire rifle or carbine, preferably in semiautomatic such as a .223. Then he would want a large bore rifle, either bolt action or semiauto for long range hunting of large game, say in a .308 cartridge of your choice. In close and for protection, a long barrel revolver or pistol would work, preferably in a larger caliber, like .357 magnum or .40 S&W.

Of course if you're talking self protection, the shotgun and handguns would work fine, with a small revolver or pistol being used for concealed carry and as a backup handgun.

Big 5 has sales regularly on rifles and shotguns. I found they do have a Mossberg 500 with a long/short barrel combination that would work for both home protection and for hunting. The long barrel, however, isn't threaded for chokes although you can substitute barrels that are for a reasonable price.

I would suggest taking your time to look for what will fill your needs in various ways, then read up on each one and find a make and model that fits your needs, not what someone else thinks would be good for you. But for goodness sake, don't rely on just one gun for all your needs. Also, consider keeping your calibers to as few as possible. That simplifies storage for you.

Happy hunting.
Chuck

longshot
03-10-2010, 12:47 AM
Out of curiosity, why do you NEED so many guns?

Who do you think is out to get you?


John

not to pick any fights but that isnt a lot of firearms. i have less but would love to have more and i will in time. need and want are sometimes a grey area i have many tools as well and still need/want more.

just my .02

dean

jim
03-10-2010, 01:34 PM
Ignore him, he's just Troll-ing.

jim

rice paddy daddy
03-10-2010, 03:01 PM
...and a debarked Chihuahua

:D
Gunkid is supposed to be getting out of the slammer sometime this year.:eek:

Rick
03-10-2010, 05:54 PM
I hope his PO lets him get back on the computer. GK made for some interesting chats; he sure stirred things up.

:D

essayons4791
03-16-2010, 12:19 AM
lowetom65:

Totally agree with your assessment of the M16 family. I've done 16 years with those things myself, and I'll go with the AK every time- or a Garand! An M16 will fail you when the chips are down. Period. Maybe I'll get flamed for that opinion, but hey, just try keeping a sweet sixteen working in a sandstorm. I dare you. Or in torrential rainfall with a lot of mud. Have fun. When the palm of your hand gets nice and tender from endlessly smacking the forward assist, or you lose that @$#%& cotter key in pine needles, you'll look on the AK with different eyes.

Teg
03-16-2010, 12:33 AM
I wouldn't buy one myself but I've never had much of a performance problem with the 16'/M-4 in combat (they do take a lot of maintaining though), my reason for disliking the 16 family is that I just don't like the 5.56 round itself, personally I like a bullet with a little more umpph. I do know folks with lots of horror stories about dealing with 16's I've just never had a problem personally, little disclaimer there. ;)

essayons4791
03-17-2010, 01:30 AM
Teg,

If its worked for you, cool. A lot of guys have good experiences with the 16. I haven't. I will say that the M4 I had last year ran a lot better than the A2 I had in 03-04.

And I think we both agree on the cartridge- it could be better.

Strangely enough, my ex-PSG said he would have loved to have had an M2 carbine over there. But if you think about it, it's not so strange. Stone ax simple, you can carry lots of ammo, and it puts out a lot of lead in a real hurry for city work.

But to stick to the topic- for all around "survival rifle", I'll go with an AK, Remington 870, and a good .22 rifle. What others choose is fine too- as long as it puts the desired amount of lead downrange at the appropriate target.