Best defence load if you are man enough

[commonsense]

I would have to vote for the 3 1/2 in 00 buck instead of 9 pellets it has 18 pellets. *But it has recoil even with a ported barrel.

[gunslinger2006]

Well, heck, might as well go with a 10 gauge with 000 buck. They may even make a 0000 buck load! :o ;D

[panzer426]

not quite as powerfull but I use 3" magnum 00 bucks in my 870 express. first gun I ever fired that was bigger than a 22lr or 22 hornett was a single shot 10 gauge with wood stocks and no rubber recoil pad, just the factory buttplate. I was 12 years old, probably not much over 100 - 120? pounds. No, I didn't land on my butt but my right shoulder sure was sore for a day or two or 5.

[RangerRick]

Just put a mag extension on my 870 that gives it 9 rounds. *Picked up a nice little set of Polish web gear from Cheaper Than Dirt, including a wide belt, big brass buckle and 5 ammo pouchs that hold a total 110 2 3/4" 00 buck *rounds. *It is heavy but experience has taught me that it's always better to sweat than bleed.

Of course that is only for close quarter defence. For a distance defence most any quality battle rifle would work well.

Ranger Rick

[Tightwad]

Just put a mag extension on my 870 that gives it 9 rounds. *Picked up a nice little set of Polish web gear from Cheaper Than Dirt, including a wide belt, big brass buckle and 5 ammo pouchs that hold a total 110 2 3/4" 00 buck *rounds. *It is heavy but experience has taught me that it's always better to sweat than bleed.

Of course that is only for close quarter defence. *For a distance defence most any quality battle rifle would work well.

Ranger Rick

Good grief! You've turned that 870 into a weapon of war, mate.
Can you still hunt with it?

I'm not sure why the OP asked about the biggest load that can be
fired in shotgun but you've sure turned that 870 into a gun that
"walks the talk"! :o :o :o

Let's hope you never have to use it for taking a human life as it
is now designed to do.

[deerhunter1362]

heck just put you some 2 3/4 00 buck, that will do the trick 3" is to big

[Win-12]

I use Tactical buckshot loads. Basicly a trap powder charge with 9 "00" buckshot in it. Recoil is not bad, you can make fast follow up shots and you wont go deaf from shooting one in the house.

[JohnW]

I've been told (and I agree) that one very good use of a shotgun is for self defense inside your house, where you can select a shot size that is not a likely to go through the walls and harm other family members. Number 4 is supposed to be a good size for this, it will not go through drywall unless you are shooting it directly.

[Toad_Sticker]

Well, heck, might as well go with a 10 gauge with 000 buck. *They may even make a 0000 buck load! :o ;D
I have 000 for my 10 gauge ;D
TS

[Catalpa]

Since I'm not a man, maybe I shouldn't answer this one.

But I do have a home defence gun ready to hand...it's a Winchester 20 guage. Mainly I have that gun because I won it in a raffle.

I keep some 2 3/4 8 shot in it, mainly because I found a bunch on sale.

I figure I don't really want to punch a big hole in the wall, hopefully just racking the gun would send an intruder packing, if not, a load of shot from close up should do it.

I'll probably put a light and a magazine extension on it someday when funds aren't so tight.

[Rama_das]

john shaw "fast shotgun in the world" and Louis Awerbuck, both big shotgun/combat shotgun guys. both used a number 4 shot, in a 12G

i got my 12g day before my b day, mossberg 590, added a pressure light, side saddle and it's real sweet.

[Tightwad]

Since I'm not a man, maybe I shouldn't answer this one.

But I do have a home defence gun ready to hand...it's a Winchester 20 guage. *

I keep some 2 3/4 8 shot in it............

I figure I don't really want to punch a big hole in the wall, hopefully just racking the gun would send an intruder packing, if not, a load of shot from close up should do it.

My guess is that you are closest to the truth yet. Since you're
a lady a 20ga should be about right for safe handling size. For
larger men or hefty women a 12 ga could be better, but the 20ga
gives up little indoors for limiting collateral damage.

You point about wall penetration is very true and often overlooked in
macho man contest such as this. Large heavy loads with big shot
really isn't the greatest "inside" while "outside" the sky's the limit.

[LaunchPad]

Almost no, none, nanda shotgun spreads ENOUGH (hardly noticable) in the range of a dwelling. What ever defensive ammo you feed won't matter that much. Average pattern sizes are going to be itse-bitzy. Yes, shotguns spread and have a pattern- but people give them a mythical ability to do so when they talk about indoors (or short range) and it keeps getting more and more mythical.

WHY is a shotgun such a good home defensive weapon??? A: the big and intimidating muzzel and that is about it. The shotgun is actually a bad idea because of the over abundance of handholds for the bad guy to snatch it from you- it is too long to bring into alignment very quickly and too slow to cycle.

Unless you have one of these (yes it is supposed to be real- if you want the venders info give me a buzz)
http://static.flickr.com/103/305100394_7b15253dbb_o.jpg


Get a 357,or 44mag revlover with glazer safty slugs (or equiv) they are MUCH faster to bring on target, you will not be falsely assuming that they will spread- so actually MORE likely to hit, have fewer places for the bad guy to get ahold of, still very intimidating, extremely lethal, and faster "cycling" with more rounds available than most shotguns.

[Tightwad]

WHY is a shotgun such a good home defensive weapon??? A: the big and intimidating muzzel and that is about it.


http://static.flickr.com/103/305100394_7b15253dbb_o.jpg




For the casual homeowner(& family) a hand gun is not the best
choice IMO. The intimidation factor of a shotgun may be enough
scare an intruder off so no shots are fired.

As to that "Blunderbuss" barrel......Wow! *:o :o :o THAT would
be a major improvement to any home shotgun. Both impressive
and effective indoors. *;D ;D From the "business" end in the
dark any intruder wouldn't have a clue to just how big (or not) that
gun pointed at him really is. :o :o :o Might just put him into a.......
"Feet don't fail me now" mode. ;D ;D ;D

[LaunchPad]

Yup,the muzzel is 3 inches across. Spread no longer a mythical thing. Also has the record as the worlds loudest shotgun- so even if you miss the guy will be bleeding from his ears (you owning the gun- you'd have hearing protection-right?)

;D

[Rama_das]

with good technique you can prevent your shotgun from being snatched. it's like any weapon, there are good and bad.

but a close pattern shouldn't be looked at as a bad thing either. at close range you want a little bit of a pattern, but a small enough one to not take out a whole wall.

you also should be able to use a shotgun as a good kill shot if a hostage is taken. i've seen it done on a technique video.

[blackpowderbill]

12 or 20 ga load of 8's or 9's when inside a home.
at under 10 yards it will punch a 2" hole in a 2x6.
skeet or cly choke and you can cover a 2' circle down teh hall to the door..if you live in a home with a long hallway.

[LaunchPad]

10 yards is 30 feet. that would be like wayyyyyy outside the extreme limits attainable in 95%+++ of homes out there. How many rooms do you think are 30 feet across in your house. Even standing outside a room and in a hall way- not too likely to happen.

Shooting down the length of the hall way for one that actually runs the length of the house- might get you to the 30 feet.

First you talk about getting a pattern (which by the way is completely RANDOM inside the CP) then using the shot gun for a kill shot should a hostage be taken ??????? Who are you killing? the hostage????? If your family life is that bad just get a divorce. geesh!

then the other arguements- people recommend shotguns for beginners and ladies because they don't require technique. then turn around and tell me they can keep it from being snatched from them if they have good technique. Which is it?

That extra *2 to 3 feet of shotgun length over a handgun is just too much to be swing around, through door ways or even keeping horizontal within a hall way should you have to turn around- try it.

Get the lady a 357 with a laser pointer and a flashlight on it- no more technigue required and they can fire off all 6 rounds faster than pumping two in the shotgun with way less to grab for by the bad guy when she is fumbling around.

[LaunchPad]

http://www.shoot-n-iron.com/self-defense-and-you.asp

i like this quote in particular: "I see a lot of people doing their practice at fifteen to twenty yards away from the target. This is good practice. Over the years I have found that almost all of the lethal confrontations actually occur at twenty feet or less. The distance across a room will likely be the furthermost distance you will encounter. A large majority of incidents will occur at three to four feet or even less. During such an encounter you may be in the grasp of someone."

3 feet or less within a home!! did you see that? 2 feet of barrel and action you better hope the bad guy doesn't have arms because he can swat your shotgun aside faster than you can bring it into alignment.

some other very good points in this article:

where is your gun right now as you sit typing? if it is not within reach and loaded then it won't do you any good on a home invasion. Do you really tote your shotgun room to room?

have you been training to bring your gun into alignment from your carry position? This takes time that an attacker can cross a whole lot of distance with.

home invasions occur ever hour of the day and night so the night stand gun only has you partly covered.

just my 2 cents

[Tightwad]

Launch, I can understand your point about having
a gun snatched from your hands . However, letting
a known inturder get that close is YOUR fault if you
know they are there. Warn twice... then shoot.

Now if someone comes at you from the side or behind,
and you didn't know how many intruders there are, then
it won't make a damn how good you are with any gun.

It's a catch 22 for a homeowner to even pick up a gun
when it comes to intruders. No good answers really.

[Win-12]

I follow what Mr. Ayoob once said, use the handgun if you need to be lurking around in your house, use the shotgun in your "last stand" or "barricade room".
This makes good sence to me, it might not always work this way but its a good plan.

[Rama_das]

10 yards is 30 feet. that would be like wayyyyyy outside the extreme limits attainable in 95%+++ of homes out there. How many rooms do you think are 30 feet across in your house. Even standing outside a room and in a hall way- not too likely to happen.

Shooting down the length of the hall way for one that actually runs the length of the house- might get you to the 30 feet.

First you talk about getting a pattern (which by the way is completely RANDOM inside the CP) then using the shot gun for a kill shot should a hostage be taken ??????? Who are you killing? the hostage????? If your family life is that bad just get a divorce. geesh!

then the other arguements- people recommend shotguns for beginners and ladies because they don't require technique. then turn around and tell me they can keep it from being snatched from them if they have good technique. Which is it?

That extra *2 to 3 feet of shotgun length over a handgun is just too much to be swing around, through door ways or even keeping horizontal within a hall way should you have to turn around- try it.

Get the lady a 357 with a laser pointer and a flashlight on it- no more technigue required and they can fire off all 6 rounds faster than pumping two in the shotgun with way less to grab for by the bad guy when she is fumbling around.


you are mixing up my posts with someone elses.

if you carry your gun muzzle down in a ready carry, as done for snap shooting. it's harder to grab unless the person is very short with long arms. it's also fast to bring up, and fire from a bead on target position.

in a home invasion where you light is being used, you'll have it in the shoulder. you should also know your home well enough not to get taken by a hidden intruder.

i have seen technique of a person using moving 3D targets wiggling them back and forth, forward and back, the middle one was the aggressor, the front one was a child size doll. and one behind. all three moving in random directions within close range.
a beginner to the combat shotgun was taking an aimed shot at 15 feet? maybe? and was able to take the aggressor out without hitting the target in front or behind.

if you are toting a shotgun i hope you have technique, and aren't simply using it because it's simple. i never said anything about it being for women. . .

i didn't say it was the end all be all of it either. but it's one tool. just like a rifle, hand gun, tactical blade, a protect blunt weapon, a set of keys even have their place in self defence.

i trained in kung fu for 9 years. the first three were without weapons, then we work weapons in to the training. not as frighting weapons, but as traditional forms. but you need to balance your training/self defence. but the point is you need to train!

[Rama_das]

and i can't have a hand gun this area ;)
if someone breaks in, i'm confident my dogs and
k-bar will be the first line of defence.

[Crash]

I believe a 12 ga pump loaded with 2 3/4" no. 4 buck would be more than sufficient for a "bedroom" gun. In fact, at the short distances inside a house, several rounds of bird shot in the torso should give an intruder pause. However, if I'm in another room of the house, or have to check out a suspicious noise, I'll have a revolver with me. BUT, if you are in the bedroom and are sure that there are intruders in the house, the best thing to do is phone 911 and get behind cover (mattress, substantial piece of furniture). Don't go into the confrontation mode and go out to "meet" the intruders.

Crash

[remington]

:DI don't know, a 50 BMG would be nice LOL ;D
Seriously though. A shotgun is the most versatile gun there is. You can hunt birds one day, deer the next, rabbits after that, and at night put on the short barrel and pistol-grip and it becomes a very effective home-defense tool. Nobody I have read so far has mentioned pistol grips so far. Have to love them. Personally, load wise I like the 00 buck.

[clawhammerdan]

IMHO ...A short barrel shotgun (.20 ga.) pump with #6-7 would be plenty . ( I also keep a .380 semi auto on the nightstand when the grandchildren aren't "under roof").

[Rick_O_Shea]

moss 500 pistol grip top folding stock + sidesaddle...2 3/4 00 buck

compact, maneuverable, deadly...easy to use by even small women

[ozarksnick]

I keep a round of #6s in the chamber of my bedroom gun. The shell holder on the stock has three more #6s and two slugs.

I shot a piece of cardboard once with that load from five feet. The hole was 3-4 inches across. Then I took a shot at ground that was frozen solid (again prolly five feet away), the hole was prolly 3-4 inches deep.

At those short ranges all of the lead from the shell is traveling as one solid column. So even though it's smaller shot size, damage to flesh will still be quite extensive.

That also happens to be my rabbit hunting load. And I once made the mistake of shooting at a rabbit that was a might too close. The shot tore the poor thing plumb in two, I found it's head and it's hind legs and that was about it. Oops.

So I reckon that'll deal with any two-legged predators come knockin on my door just dandy.

[dannistim]

For me it all boils down to what you've had the most training on. I'm in the Army so, for me, that's a long gun, usually a rifle. my wife, on the other hand, has had more training with a pistol.

As for having a long gun taken away from you, if you don't train to counter such threats then you are vulnerable. If you are clearing your house at port arms wandering blindly around corners and past doorways?! then, yes, you are likely to have your gun taken away. If you maintain 4 points of contact with your rifle/shotgun (shoulder, cheek, 2 hands) and proceed with caution, hugging walls and sucking floors, but giving corners and doorways a wide berth until you can see around them, then cutting back close to the wall, you are much less likely to be surprised.

An attacker can at best manage 2 points of contact unless he presses the muzzle of my weapon against his body (one can always hope). Now I'm no rocket scientist but even I can see that 2 points of contact is less than 4 and I would expect a comensurate decrease in leverage. Contrast this to a handgun. The operator of the handgun only has two points of contact with the weapon and they overlap making for poor leverage. An attacker, on the other hand also has two points of contact available on the handgun but he can grab the barrel with one hand and pin your hands with with his other hand. his points of contact don't overlap which gives him superior leverage over your gun in addition to having both your hands pinned. Nevertheless, My wife and I have planned for just this sort of incident. I take the lead and she covers me. If I get jumped I drop like a sack of potatoes giving her a clear shot and she has at 'em. We practice too. We have airsofts that are nearly identical to the guns we would use for real.

The idea of stopping power especially with a handgun is wonderful but false. Recently there was even a situation where several rounds of 00 buck failed to stop a perp hopped up drugs who successfully attacked a LEO. The perp later died of his wounds (duh!) but that didn't really help the LEO at the time did it? My point in all this is to question the validity of the argument that a less powerful less decisive handgun is a better tool to be using indoors, or anywhere else for that matter, than a more powerful more decisive long gun when people are trying to kill you and you are trying to prevent them from doing so simply because it is more compact.

Following that train of "logic" a dinner fork is an even better choice yet because it is even more compact. True it is less powerful than either a handgun or a rifle but because most of it is contained within one's grasp it presents less danger than a handgun of being taken away or of even being taken seriously... ;)

[Badger]

I'm happy with Federal 00 tactical buck. ;D

[Swede]

Years ago I remember a law enforcement officer writing in to Massad Ayoob asking him about a certain handgun. Due to the pistol's design it was postulated that it might be fairly easy for an attacker to disengage the slide and render the weapon useless in a struggle.

The questioner wanted to know why this particular piece was so popular among other LEO's, given this undesirable attribute.

Mr. Ayoob's reply was, in effect, "What the hell is the attacker doing with his hands all over your pistol in the first place? Why isn't he on the ground with the muzzle screwed into the base of his skull?"

The best defensive load is the one that happens to be in the rifle or pistol nearest to me when I need it. I never give it a second thought.

I wouldn't take bets on being able to sneak up on me in my own house.

Swede

[rAcErRicK]

I think you are talking about one of the very first 40 cal handguns that came out after the 40 was introduced, I had one, model 4006. The theory was: since a very large number of lawmen are shot with their own weapon, this was an idea to possibly reduce that figure. If an officer was in a position where he thought that might occur, he had but to touch the mag release button, and the mag would not eject, but just barely unseat itself, and the weapon could not be fired, even with the hammer back on a round in the chamber. It wasn't too well recieved, and I think the idea was dropped. If the mag fell out you are unarmed until you scramble around on the ground, and reintroduce your mag. into the weapon, guess the thought was: better than being shot with your own gun, which has to be quite embarrassing.

[Swede]

The pistol in question was the 9mm Beretta.

BTW, and before I'm jumped by an angry horde of Beretta lovers, I have no idea if the writers comments about the pistol are true or not. I don't own one, I've never disassembled one, and I have nothing against them.

I recounted Massad's reply because it spoke to the issue of attackers getting their hands on your weapon. His comment amused me while driving home the point that we must handle our firearms in a proactive, not reactive, manner.

Swede

[macgeoghagen]

With the 12ga, if you can imagine it, you can probably load it and send it down the tube.

i imagine a slug mold with a steel ball bearing in the nose, followed by no.4 shot, all stuck together with thread lock glue. hillbilly frangible ammo. Turns goblin hordes into goblin hamburger.

I also imagine a wad of some sticky flammable substance wrapped in paper. tar? if you can keep it from rupturing as soon as you shoot it or sticking to the inside of your barrel you'll have a sticky flame ball.

my thoughts on self defense: if the first goblin disintegrates in a spray of meat or catches on fire, the rest will be suitably warned.

As far as the 9mm beretta is concerned, i don't care for the one the govt. got for me. firing in double action is difficult enough to pull the sights off the target, and in single action the trigger is sloppy. are they all like that or did I get a bad one?

[wy0mn]

http://www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=BFR45-707