The Israeli Galil

[RangerRick]

http://i18.tinypic.com/2q16n0l.png

I'm interested in buying the Israeli Galil in 5.56mm for a couple of reasons.

1. *While I have a perfectly acceptable AR15 and I've relied on the M16 platform in many arenas throughout the years of my career I sense dark clouds on the horizon and thought I'd consider other options. *Frankly, I'm not real happy with the AR15's necessity for cleanliness and its aversion to sandy environments in a prolonged SHTF environment.

2. *I'd like to have a primary combat weapon in NATO to take advantage of the 5.56's accuracy but one with tolerances that arn't soooo intolerable as the AR15 and just move the AR into the roll of back-up.

While I've seen a few in my day I really have no experience with them. *It's loose tolerances seem to allow it to perform well in desert conditions as proven by experience against Israel's enemies and does not require prodigious TLC as does the AR15. *It does have a milled receiver unlike the AK which supposedly gives it considerably improved accuracy and far more longevity. *It has a longer and higher quality sight system which probably helps accuracy. *It doesn't come with the bipod like the class III version but I don't consider that a necessity but there is a bayonet lug.

They resemble the AK to some extent and I understand it contributed considerably with design. *The South Africans use a knock-off called the R4 but I don't know anything regarding its performance.

Any of you folks have any experiences and or knowledge with this weapon you'd care to share before I lay out $800 for this tool?

;D

Rick

[Matthew]

Rick, I'd never talk a man out of getting a new rifle, but don't expect it to outshine a good AR15. Look at the news clips of Israel's war last summer. Not a Galil in sight-all M16's.

Have you considered the Sig 556, as an alternative to the AR? It uses the piston gas system and has served the Swiss well.

http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=35&produ ctid=114

ETA: Actually, you can't get a Sig for anywhere near the price of the Galil, so nevermind. If you want a battletested 5.56 rifle other than an AR, I think the Galil is your best bet.

Also, I read that if you have get an adapter, you can use AR magazines.

[Matthew]

Here's a link I found with some excellent information.

http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/galil.html

[RangerRick]

So Matt, are you saying that the Galil is no longer being used by Israel? I was under the impression that it was and is "THE" standard issue. As I said, I've got an AR15 but would like a proven battle rifle in 5.56mm with good accuracy and doesn't have cleaning issues and thought that the Galil looked like the best option without breaking the bank.

While the AK doesn't have "cleaning issues" it is for the most part a cheap close quarter "pray & spray" machine. For longevity purposes I'd like a bit of quality workmanship.

You have any practical experience with this weapon?

Rick

[RangerRick]

Well, looks like I stand corrected a bit. Seems Israel is doing some trials with a new design they've been working on that is a "bullpup" type platform they call the Tavor Tar 21 but I haven't found much info on it and don't know how widespread issuance is but it looks real hi tech and pricey.

Think the Galil is still in the game though.

Rick

[Matthew]

Rick, I have no experience with the rifle, just observations. I'd say the Galil is definitely still in the game. One consideration is the 1/12 barrel twist will limit your ammunition choices.

As for available battle-tested designs in 5.56 the AR and the Galil are the two best options. I guess you could check out the Armalite AR180.

http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/ar180b.htm

I have no experience there either, just trying to give some ideas. The more I look though, the more it points to just getting the Galil. My biggest gripe with the AR is the dirty gas system. I haven't had any stoppages with mine, (I only use OKAY Industries mags) but it sure is a pain to clean.

That problem should be eliminated with the Galil and $800 seems reasonable to me. Keep us posted.

[jim]

I didn't know you could get a Galil for less than 1,500.00. That is good news. It is still very much in the game and a good shooter. The Isrealis do use SS109, so I'm betting that the twist rates are tighter than 1 in 12" in at least some of them.

There are lots of 5.56 AK's around and for less than 400.00 a piece. Being an ex-Ranger, you can probably out shoot what an AK is capable of, but most folks can't even come close to that. I've never heard of an AK wearing out. Maybe after 20 years of being dragged around Afghanistan... and all that implies.

Let us know how things turn out.

jim

[RangerRick]

Jim,

Yep, found a source for an $800 Galil, not real sure of the quality but a friend just got one so I'll give it a good going over.

The longevity problem with the AK as I see it is its cheap-o bent and rivited together receiver. *While after 5k rounds it may still fire but accuracy could resemble my 870 Remington 12 gage. *Milled receivers can be had in the states for around $400 and completed units with milled receivers start at about $850. *Right now I doing my preliminary work-up trying to consider all known options, of which the Galil is mostly an unknown to me.

Tks for your input.

Rick

[Matthew]

All right Rick, one more idea then I'll leave you alone.

How about a gas piston upper for your AR? No new mags to buy and you get to use the same familiar ergonomics.

http://www.pof-usa.com/gaspistonuppers/gaspistonuppers.htm

Pricey, but in the neighborhood.

The Galil is an excellent weapon, and for that price you really can't go wrong. I am just making you feel better about your purchase by eliminating every other possible choice. :)

[Eli80Cal]

I have no direct experience, but a fellow Deputy at work is an ex Israeli Marine. He raves about them. I will give him a call tomorrow and get some more info on them.

[AccuCast]

The Galil is an excellent rifle for an AK system, I sold them for Action Arms when they were importing them in 1980's. They came in both 223 and .308 calibers and were offered in several variations. I think you can find inforormation on them on UZITALK Forum, I sent them some catalogs that they wanted to put on the site. There were also adapters for the magazine well so you could use M16 Mags.

The Valmet Rifles were an AK system gun that was also chambered in .223, 7.62 x 39, and .308 and were of excellent quality.

ONLY TWO PROBLEMS WITH EITHER GUN. PARTS and PARTS You can always rebarrel to faster twist rate for heavy Bullets

There are currently a lot of Israeli De-Milled parts kits here in the country and several companies are building rifles with these kits. The price sounds very cheap for an original gun, sounds close to what Century Arms was going to sell Kit Guns for. If you buy one of these I would suggest getting an extra parts kit so you would have some spare parts for the gun.

As someone else suggested you may want to look at the POF Uppers, DSA, Inc. is still the POF under license. I think Lietner-Wise is also making one.

HK (Model 416) and Colt (Model LE1020) are working on operating rod system but I have not heard of any civilian models available from either of them. See Small Arms Review for more info.

[Eli80Cal]

Talked to my buddy finally. Sorry it took so long. He mentioned the reliability, with the tolerances being a bit looser (he rehashed whats already been said). Just kept saying it was a great gun. Sorry that is not much help---I was expecting more from him.

[Pitdog]

Century is releasing it's new Galil, I saw it at the Shotshow in Orlando and had a lengthy conversation about it back in January. I have always wanted one and will be purchasing one when they become available on a fulscale basis, which may be six more months. However for the price, they are put together well and and the Century rep said the performed very well after some alterations, they are working on a .308 Galil to be released when they get it all worked out.
The worst part of Galil's is the price fo magazines at the moment, which all mags are going to go up since the election, but I would stock up on mags ASAP, even before purchasing the weapon.
SUPER reliable though, get it boken in right so it establishes good even wear patterns on the new receiver and I think the Century weapon will be great. I know more than one 3rd Group Operator that has worked in tight with South African SO and their R-1 and R-4's are top notch, if you can drop the money on a semi version on Gunbroker, do it.

[RangerRick]

Century (which has a crapy rep) and Centerfire are both selling the Galil @$799 with origional new parts and a US milled receiver. *Buddy of mine bought one from Century and it really rocks on coyetes. *Seems to eat Wolf ammo with no problems so everything else should feed. *Looking for a mid March Delivery. *If one is good two is great! *Ya think Sweetie is gona like her birthday present??????????

Rick

[Eli80Cal]

If one is good two is great! Ya think Sweetie is gona like her birthday present??????????

Rick

Im glad im not the only one who thnks like this.....

[Mac_Muz]

Ouch! Last fall I took a partial trade over a boat I had which I sold for cash and a gun... The gun is the yugo underfolder with a pig sticker in 7.62x39.

This is new in the box and never fired to date. I looked at the bore just now and it isn't chrome lined.

The only problem is the leather frog is very tired, and in two pieces in the box... Pretty much the leather failed from age I guess.... I can tear it like tissue.

So what am I look at here as a usefull life? Are these barrels softer than they should be? Do they wear quickly?

Pretty much I would think many rounds useage would be normal, but then I can't tear into the barrel very well and test...

I have other's as SAR-1's which are chromed, and lightly used, showing no wear.. each with under 80 rnds out..

[Pitdog]

Keep it clean Mac, and you won't have any problems. The oriental stuff is mostly chromed because of moisture problems, to help prevent corrosion in steamy jungle environments, least wise is why Japanese started that on the Arisaka in WWII. Tell me this though, have you ever seen chrome rims on a vehicle that didn't rust if they weren't taken care of?
They merely slow what is inevitable if the proper care isn't taken.

Anyone tried ordering a Galil yet from Century? I'm thinking hard about it.

[RangerRick]

April 2 and still waiting. Called this am, looks like the parts are in and the build is on so mine shouldn't be much longer.

Rick

[Mac_Muz]

Thanks Pitdog. I once had a K-98 which I shot corrisive ammo in with out any signs of any problem. I shoot black powder guns and so clean everything. I used windex of the 98..

I didn't understand the chrome bores were for rust, and had the idea it was there for wear, and wasn't sure these barrels were heat treated properly.

I wish I never sold that 98, which is about how i feel about selling guns anyway, but that one was a tack driver..

[Pitdog]

Shoulda' kept that 98! *smack!*
For the action if nothing else :)
I just but a stainless shilen on mine and chambered it in 8mm-06.

[Mac_Muz]

I sold it because a buddy wouldn't quit beggin me to sell it and finally i couldn't stand it anymore. That gun was a tack driver too.. I have more ammo with no use, all corrosive, but I might get another 98, and if it ain't a tack driver maybe he will trade even, since he plans to use it for WW-2 re-enactments...

Other wise maybe I can sell the ammo.. most of it is corrosive machine gun ammo with authority.....

These Galil's appear interesting... The extended site base is very interesting....

[Matthew]

Rick, what's the update on the Galil? Got it yet?

[RangerRick]

I called em a week ago as I was down in Galveston departing on a cruise and they said "not yet and we don't have a firm date". Damn!!! I went ahead and paided for it so as to lock in the $799 price but this waiting sucks. Southern Ohio Guns http://www.southernohiogun.com/new.htm has it in stock but their price is $850 so I'm standing by.

Rick

[jim]

Have you got it yet?

[RangerRick]

Nope, just called em and they said they are expecting a shipment next week - so sorry for the inconvience.

Aeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Patience IS a virtue.

Rick

[RangerRick]

I called those idiots at Centerline up to get a status on my Galil as they said it would be in. It wasn't, so much for patience. I told em to forget it I just build another AR-15.

:-X

Rick