Basic Bread Recipe

[patg1942]

Hi; :)

Doe anyone have a basic bread recipe they will share? With prices soaring and future shortages on the horizon I have decided to try and make my own bread. ::)

Thank you in advance!

[Shamrock1121]

Here is a fun and easy way to make bread. I've taught this class to young kids and old kids alike, as a way to learn breadmaking.

Bread-In-A-Bag -

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Bread-in-a-Bag/Detail.aspx

Here's another similar recipe that uses part whole wheat flour.

http://rps.uvi.edu/CES/bread.htm

I make all our breads and also mill my own flour. It takes approx. 10 cents worth of wheat for me to make a loaf of 100% Whole Wheat Bread. Since the price of commercial flour has gone up so high, I only make 100% whole wheat loaves with freshly milled flour.

You might check your local library for more information. I know our library has videos to show how to make bread, and endless cookbooks to choose from. A good quality bread machine is also a good investment for making bread at home. I use a Zojirushi bread machine for mixing and kneading dough - but never bake in it. It's been proven to do a better job than a stand mixer or by hand. It's also a lot easier for those of us who have arthritis, tennis elbow and carpel tunnel... ;)

Check at your County Extension Office and see if they are holding any breadmaking classes in the near future. Find a mentor. Get with someone who bakes bread and is willing to share their knowledge with you. There's as much science to making bread as there is having a good recipe.

Good luck.... :D

-Karen

[Fred_47460]

Ditto on the request for a bread recipe!! My wife has tried a few times....but the bread she bakes could hurt you if hit over the head with it!! There is a little Amish babe (She could be a model WITHOUT any makeup) down at the local farmers market here in Spencer that makes AWESOME bread!! Unfortunately, they don't always show up.....in fact, they haven't showed up since the big rain we had a couple weeks ago (10 inches in 12 hours.....15 inches in 24 hours!!) Man....I'd propose marriage to that gal just on account of her bread.....but my wife might not like it ;D

Any help with making good bread would be GREATLY appreciated!!

Fred.......Spencer, IN.

[FZRaven]

If I can make bread anyone can, I'm a self taught breadmaker.

I think the most important part that people might tend to mess up is kneading, kneading is very important. That's what separates the hard bread from the soft bread. Most recipes will tell you how long to knead for or what consistency your looking for.

This is the recipe that I use most often, I replace the white flour with wheat.

2 cups boiling water
1 cup thick oat flakes (rolled oats)
1/2 cup maple sugar
1 tablespoon honey
1/4 cup butter
1 tablespoon kosher salt
1 teaspoon cinnamon
1 tablespoon instant active dry yeast
1 1/2 cup Whole Wheat Flour
4 cups Unbleached All-Purpose Flour

Directions:

In a large mixing bowl, combine the water, oats, maple sugar, honey, butter, salt and cinnamon. Let cool to lukewarm. Add the yeast and flours, stirring to form a rough dough. Knead (about 10 minutes by hand, 5 to 7 minutes by machine) until the dough is smooth and satiny. Transfer the dough to a lightly greased bowl, cover the bowl with lightly greased plastic wrap, and allow the dough to rise for 1 hour. Divide the dough in half, and shape each half into a loaf. Place the loaves in two greased 8 1/2 x 4 1/2-inch bread pans. Cover the pans with lightly greased plastic wrap and allow the loaves to rise till they've crowned about 1 inch over the rim of the pan, about 1 hour. Bake the loaves in a preheated 360 F oven for 33 minutes.* Remove them from the oven when they're golden brown, and the interior registers 190 F on an instant-read thermometer. Yield: 2 sandwich loaves.

[rockymtngirl]

Anyone out there successfully bake bread at high altitude? I'm at 5280...
Also I don't have a bread maker and am not likely to buy one so I'll have to do it the old fashioned way!

Thanks

Kirstin

[Shamrock1121]

Anyone out there successfully bake bread at high altitude? *I'm at 5280...
Also I don't have a bread maker and am not likely to buy one so I'll have to do it the old fashioned way! *

Thanks

Kirstin

Have you contacted your local County Extension Office for information? I'm betting they have a lot of information and recipes that will help you to successfully make bread at your altitude. Check your local library for high-altitude cookbooks, as well.

This web site should get you started. There's a recipe included in the information (scroll down) as well as hints and tips for adjusting regular recipes.

http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/publication/pub__5790807.pdf

Helpful hint if you are new to bread making...

Dough does NOT rise to a timer and it rises faster at higher altitudes. Yeast rises according to the moisture in the dough, activity level and strength of the yeast and the ambient temperature and humidity. SOOOOOOO, only allow dough to rise to double no matter WHAT the recipe indicates for rising time or what your altitude is.

Even better, just under double is actually more accurate. Our flour is no longer bromated, therefore it no longer has the extensibility it once did and just under double will yield a better loaf of bread. Allowing dough to rise beyond double is called "over-proofing" and can result in a failed loaf.

The best way to know when "double" has happened is to use a dough rising bucket (aka dough doubler).

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/items/Dough_Rising_Bucket

They can be square or round food storage containers, but they are always straight-sided with a tight-fitting lid - you can find them at restaurant supply stores or recycle that plastic ice cream tub with the tight-fitting lid. I have them in 2, 4, and 6-quart sizes. Two pounds of dough (or less) will fit nicely in the 2-quart. A normal loaf of bread will be between 1.5 and 2 pounds. I use the larger ones for larger (multiple loaves) amounts of dough.

These containers usually have a graduated measure on the side which makes it easy to check when the dough has doubled. If your's doesn't have a measurement, just use a ruler. Take the measure of the dough, and double that measure. Mark where the dough will be when it's doubled (a grease pencil mark, post-it-note or masking tape, water-based marker - if you use a piece of tape or a post-it-note, make sure you remember if "double" was at the bottom or the top of the piece of tape or piece of paper)

How to use:

- It works best to oil your hands when handling the bread dough. Place the dough in the container and pat it flat and level. Snap on the lid.

- Note where the dough measures in the container. When the dough has doubled from that line, it's done.

For instance, I normally use a 2-quart container for approx. 2-pounds of dough. When the dough is patted into the container, it is usually around the 1-quart line. Therefore, when it has risen to the 2-quart line, I know it has doubled. It's as simple as that.

The dough rising bucket keeps the dough out of a draft and well-hydrated so that a dry skin doesn't develop on the top. No more inaccurate guessing in a slant-sided bowl while playing peek-a-boo under a kitchen towel.

Good luck! Bread is a very humbling food ;)

-Karen

[pinetreefarm]

Like Karen, I make our bread from wholewheat and mill my own flour also. I do use my Kitchen Aid for kneading but I finish the dough off myself to "feel" and know it is ready for the inital rising. I use a cooking bell for risings.

I do mill my own cornmeal but buy my other flours...usually at bobsredmill.com

The websites Karen gave you are good. There are also some excellent cookbooks specializing in breadmaking but are usually for more advanced bread makers.

Pine

[Fred_47460]

FZRaven....Here goes nothin'

I'm trying your bread recipe.....first time I ever tried to make bread :o

I didn't have the non-whole wheat flour.....so I made it with 100% whole wheat flour. MAN....10 minutes of kneading is a lot tougher than I thought it would be!! It's in the first rising stage....about 40 minutes from now and I'll divide it in two and let it rise some more. I'm anxious to find out how this little experiment goes. If it's GREAT bread....my wife will probably be-knight ME as the official bread maker ;D

Don't worry....I'm such a goof I'll not blame you if it turns out badly......BUT NOW.....if it turns out GREAT I'm sure it was because of all the positive vibes I was emanating during the proccess ;D ;D ;D


Fred

[Fred_47460]

Ok....what did I screw up this time??

I tried FZRavens bread recipe....and I followed it to the letter...EXCEPT...I used ALL whole wheat flour. We went to the local food cooperative grocery (where the lib wacko's hang out) and bought some "Whole Wheat Bread Flour" from the bulk bins. They had several different types of flour....we just picked the "Whole Wheat Bread Flour" variety. I got about 6 cups for $2.49.....just for experimentation.

The bread turned out quite good and flavorful....BUT...also very dense. It rose good for the first hour (From a diameter of about 8 inches to a diameter of about 11 inches). It did NOT rise much after I separated it into 2 loaves....even though I gave it an extra half hour.

I would not say it would KILL you if dropped on your head from a height of 5 feet....but you would definitely know you'd been thumped!! I'm not entirely sure you would maintain consciousness. I think if it'd rose about double what it did it would have been perfect. My wife is probably giggling to herself....this is what happened to her also. Maybe we're just not meant to make bread here ;D

Both the flour and the yeast were fresh from the store today.

Any ideas what to do different?? Fred

[MotherCharlotte]

You probably didn't do anything wrong exactly--it's just the whole wheat flour. It will never rise as much as white flour, no matter what you do, because it doesn't contain as much gluten. If you want 100% whole grain bread it is not going to be light and fluffy. You could try adding some gluten to the dough (you can get it at the bulk store) or you could try adding in some white bread flour, if you want the loaf to be lighter.

Personally, I don't like adding very much whole wheat flour to my bread because it always comes out noticeably heavier.

[Fred_47460]

You probably didn't do anything wrong exactly--it's just the whole wheat flour. It will never rise as much as white flour, no matter what you do, because it doesn't contain as much gluten. If you want 100% whole grain bread it is not going to be light and fluffy. You could try adding some gluten to the dough (you can get it at the bulk store) or you could try adding in some white bread flour, if you want the loaf to be lighter.

Personally, I don't like adding very much whole wheat flour to my bread because it always comes out noticeably heavier.

Ok....then I DID screw up. The recipe calls for:
" 1 1/2 cup Whole Wheat Flour"
" 4 cups Unbleached All-Purpose Flour"

I used ALL whole wheat. Ok, I'll try the mix of flours next time. I wonder what bread is "supposed" to be like. In other words....what would the bread of ....say....the 1800's have been like....or perhaps the bread Jesus ate? The heavy stomach bomb stuff I just made....or the lighter stuff. I think the real pasty stuff of today (Colonial White Bread....for example) is a relatively recent creation. There is a little Amish babe that brings absolutely wonderful bread to our local farmers market....I wonder what the Amish recipe looks like ?!?! (Unfortunately....she doesn't always show up!!!)

Fred.....felling like I swallowed a bunch of lead weights ;D

[Lynnkay]

Ok....then I DID screw up. The recipe calls for:
" 1 1/2 cup Whole Wheat Flour"
" 4 cups Unbleached All-Purpose Flour"

I used ALL whole wheat. Ok, I'll try the mix of flours next time.
Fred, when you follow the above recipe and include some white flour along with the whole wheat, be sure to use white flour that is marked 'Bread Flour' or 'Better for Breads', because it will be higher in gluten than the regular all-purpose white flour. All the major flour companies now carry a line of Bread Flour. If you don't already have some white Bread Flour at home, you can use the all-purpose flour, but it's just that the Bread Flour seems to lighten it a little. That's the only white flour I buy for all my baking, making pie pastry, etc. If it's white flour in my kitchen, it is already the Bread Flour variety. Life can be too complicated sometimes, so I try to limit the number flour canisters that I have to deal with.
Good luck!

[Shamrock1121]

Ok....what did I screw up this time??

I tried FZRavens bread recipe....and I followed it to the letter...EXCEPT...I used ALL whole wheat flour. We went to the local food cooperative grocery (where the lib wacko's hang out) and bought some "Whole Wheat Bread Flour" from the bulk bins. They had several different types of flour....we just picked the "Whole Wheat Bread Flour" variety. I got about 6 cups for $2.49.....just for experimentation.

The bread turned out quite good and flavorful....BUT...also very dense. It rose good for the first hour (From a diameter of about 8 inches to a diameter of about 11 inches). It did NOT rise much after I separated it into 2 loaves....even though I gave it an extra half hour.

I would not say it would KILL you if dropped on your head from a height of 5 feet....but you would definitely know you'd been thumped!! I'm not entirely sure you would maintain consciousness. I think if it'd rose about double what it did it would have been perfect. My wife is probably giggling to herself....this is what happened to her also. Maybe we're just not meant to make bread here ;D

Both the flour and the yeast were fresh from the store today.

* * * * Any ideas what to do different?? * * * Fred

Good LORD - $2.49 for flour! :o It costs me about 20 cents to mill 6 cups of whole wheat flour at home, and that's using my expensive wheat. And all you got for that price was old flour that has little to NO nutritional value because you have no idea how old it was. Unless it was stored in the freezer, I'd NEVER use it!

Lots of ideas.... Especially since I teach classes on the subject. I'll try to hit the most logical problems.

1. NEVER allow dough to rise to the clock - ONLY until it doubles in bulk. It sounds like you over-proofed the dough during the first rise since there wasn't any rise for the final proofing after it was panned.

A clock has NOTHING to do with the rise. The clock has absolutely no idea if your dough has risen to double or not. Dough rises according to the ambient temperature (it rises faster in warm temperatures, and slower in cold temperatures), humidity, and the activity of the yeast.

It's actually best to only allow dough to rise to just under double because commercial bleached/unbleached white flour no longer has the extensibility it once did because it's no longer bromated, and you were using 100% whole wheat flour which never has much less extensibility than white bleached or unbleached flour. Especially when you use the straight dough (aka direct-mix) breadmaking method in that recipe.

You'll get much finer loaves, higher rises, and "fluffier" whole wheat bread if you use an old-fashioned sponge method. A sponge method is where you combine some of the flour, liquid, and the yeast and you allow it to rest before processing.

In the 100% whole wheat recipe I use, I allow the sponge to set at least 2-1/2 hours - or up to 12 hours (overnight sponge). Because I use hard spring white wheat for milling flour, this bread is almost as light and fluffy as white bread.

The best way to determine if the dough has risen to double is to use a dough rising bucket, NOT a slant-sided bowl. If there's 1-quart of dough in the bucket, you'll know it's doubled when it reaches the 2-quart line. No gussing!

Dough rising bucket: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/items/Dough_Rising_Bucket

You can find similar food-grade storage containers at most restaurant supply stores, or even an old ice cream tub - as long as it has a tight-fitting lid. I normally use a 2-quart container, or 4-quart. I have larger ones that I use when I make large quantities of dough. A little less than 1-quart is enough dough for one standard loaf of bread.

2. How hydrated was the dough? Dry dough = a bread brick. Using all whole wheat flour, you may not need the entire amount of flour called for in the recipe or you'll end up with a stiff dough. You want a nice soft dough. It's better to err on the side of a very wet, slack, dough than an under-hydrated (dry/stiff) dough. A recipe is only a guide-line - you need to go by the "feel" of the dough, NOT the recipe.

3. When mixing dough by hand, take your time when adding the flour into the liquid ingredients. Mixing is a VERY important process often neglected by newbie's to bread. Do as much of the mixing as you have the strength to do while the mix is in the bowl. I'd suggest a Danish Dough Whisk for this task - http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/detail.jsp?select=C81&byCategory=C153&id=5575 - but a good wooden spoon will also work.

Add small amounts of flour to the liquid ingredients and beat the dickens out of that until it's fully incorporated, before you add more flour. You may end up using 500-800 or more strokes by the time you get most of the flour incorporated.

Only add enough flour to make a soft dough. Just because the recipe calls for a certain amount of flour DOES NOT mean you need exactly that much. Due to the differences in the amount of gluten in the flour (the higher the gluten level of flour, the more hydration it soakes up), the additional bran (bran is like a sponge and it ALSO soaks up a lot of hydration) from using all whole wheat flour, and the moisture content of the flour. Flour seems dry, but it's not. It absorbs moisture from the air during storage. That's why it's usually more moist in the humid months than it is in the dry winter. That's why you may need more or less flour to get the right consistancy.

If you do a good job mixing in the bowl, you will have developed a lot of the gluten at that point. If you ended up with a shaggy, sticky mess, you didn't do a good job.

4. Once you place the dough on the board/counter to be kneaded, try to avoid adding a lot of bench flour. If your dough out of the bowl is a shaggy, sticky mess, you will have your hands full, indeed. If you find you are adding a lot of flour to combat the stickiness, you'll be adding WAY too much flour which will end up a brick.

I'd suggest you go to my post above and click on the link and try the Bread In A Bag recipe. This will help prevent you from adding too much flour while kneading. I'd also suggest using both whole wheat flour and commercial bread flour in your recipe, if you use anything other than a sponge technique.

Another hint, instead of adding a lot of flour during kneading, grease your hands with oil/butter (whatever is in the recipe) while kneading. You can even oil your counter. Oil your hands during kneading - especially the last 3 minutes or so of kneading time. When you're done, the dough should be soft and supple, not hard and stiff.

If you notice the dough getting really stiff during kneading, you can get a bowl of water and dip your hands in it and add water to the dough while kneading. Just keep dipping your hands into the water and kneading. This is a method often used when kneading dough for English Muffins to keep it well-hydrated (which is how you get that holey texture in English Muffins. It's essential to keep the dough well-hydrated.

5. It's important to put the correct amount of dough into the correct size pan. You do this to prevent over- or under-proofing the dough during the final rise. To do this, you need to scale (weigh your dough on a kitchen scale).

People commonly have a 9x5-inch loaf pan. This pan is designed for quick breads (banana bread, etc.). In order to use this size pan for yeast breads, you need at least 2-pounds of dough - or a recipe that calls for 4 cups of flour.

A standard-size loaf pan is 8-1/2 x 4-1/2-inches. This size pan holds up to 1-1/2-pounds of dough, or a recipe that uses 3-cups of flour.

If you put too much dough into the loaf pan, it won't have enough room to complete the rise. You'll end up with shredding (cracking) on the sides of the loaf, or it will blow out the side If you don't put enough dough in the pan, you will allow it to rise too much and it can collapse during baking from being over-proofed.

6. If you allow the dough to rise to the height you want the finished loaf, you are allowing it to rise too much and risk over-proofing.

Rising rule of thumb: The log of dough you place in the pan is equal to approximately 1/3 the finished loaf size. You allow the dough to double in size in the pan, so that represents 2/3 the size of the finished loaf. The last 1/3 of the size of the loaf is from ovenspring. This is the amount the loaf continues to rise in the oven the first few minutes it's baking.

-Karen

[Lynnkay]

Wonderful post, Karen. I'm still learning about bread making, even though I've made bread for dh for a number of years. My loaves still need a lot of improvement. I keep telling him, "I'm still working on the 'perfect' loaf, but it just takes time."
Reading these marvelous, educational posts are helping a lot.

[Fred_47460]

Okay....here comes attempt number 2.

Second attempt with FZRavens recipe.
"Why am I using FZRavens recipe"?? Simple...I've got all the stuff listed in the recipe.. ;D
I'm using the as-called-for flour this time.

I'm using the "Better for Bread" unbleached, and the "Whole Wheat"....both by Gold Medal brand. We can NOT afford to spring for the Grain Grinder (I found one mentioned on this site selling for over $300....no way), so we'll just have to use the dreaded store bought flour. I "hydrated" it a bit more....if "hydrating it" means using a bit more water. I am a guy....and a electrician by trade....I have absolutely NO IDEA what "over proofing" means (and neither does my wife).....so lets just hope I didn't do that this time. Hey, this is supposed to be fun right???

I'm just wondering if PETA (People For The Ethical Treatment of Animals) will sue me if I set my last attempt at "Bread" out for the birds ;D ;D ;D

Time to go put into the breadpans.....I'll be back later.

Fred

[Fred_47460]

Well...this is getting rather OLD. The bread still is NOT rising. Just what in the name of.....Bread.....do I have to do to get this ....stuff.....to rise ???

You know, I am used to following directions....and I can follow directions rather well. My wife teases me about reading the directions with everything we get.....but I do it anyway. But when you follow the directions....and you follow MORE directions....and it still sucks, it's rather dis-heartening.

I have the bread in breadpans....ready to stick in the oven...IF and WHEN it ever rises. I am now at 170% of the time listed in the recipe and it still hasn't risen. I've heard...recently....that bread doesn't rise to a stopwatch. Just what is required ??? A friggin calendar??

Fred

PS: I wish that Amish babe would show up at the Saturday morning farmers market here in Spencer....DAMN, that woman makes good bread!!

[Shamrock1121]

Fred -

Hydrating also means adding less flour to begin with, not necessarily adding more water.

* You never add the complete amount of flour called for in a bread recipe - especially all at once, which this recipe seems to indicate. Only add enough flour (a little at a time and mixing well between additions) to make a soft dough. Keep back about 1/2 to 1-cup of flour for the bread board/counter to use during kneading (that's called bench flour).

* Start any recipe with the amount of liquid called for, then adjust the amount of flour. Sometimes the recipe amount may be too much, not enough, or just enough - recipe amounts for flour are just a good guess. It depends on the gluten level and the moisture content of the flour.

* A lot depends on how you measure flour. Flour should be stirred to aerate it (fluff it up a bit). Then fill the cup with a large spoon to over-full. Do not tap it or bang it on the counter to pack it or level it. Level it with a straight edge in one sweep. Do not pack flour into the cup. Do not fill the cup in the flour container and drag it up the side of the flour bag/canister. You can be adding as much as 20-25% more flour by incorrectly measuring it. That's why you need to learn to go by the "feel" of the dough, not measurements in the recipe.

* What type of yeast are you using? All yeast products are NOT created equal and don't necessarily substitute one for the other (without a lot of additional instruction). I've written long articles on this subject....

The recipe calls for an INSTANT yeast and I'd suggest SAF-Instant. I tend to respect the author of recipes and use the type of yeast they indicate. Other brands of "instant" yeast are Bread Machine Yeast, Quick-Rise and Rapid-Rise.

If you are using Active Dry Yeast, then you are using the wrong type. Active Dry Yeast may not have the strength to work in this bread recipe since the recipe says INSTANT active dry yeast. I don't know if Quick-Rise or Rapid Rise are used by FZRaven? The instructions leave one guessing.

SAF-Instant is much stronger than other yeast types - even more so than Bread Machine Yeast, Quick-Rise or Rapid Rise (but all are considered "instant" types of yeast). They are designed to be added directly into the dry ingredients, rather than proofing the yeast in some warm water with a sweetener, although they can also be proofed in water. Yes, it is confusing, that's why I spend a lot of time in my classes just going over the different types of yeast.

* Another question I have about this recipe... If Instant Yeast is used, all you need after the dough has been kneaded is to cover it and allow it to rest for 10 minutes. Then divide the dough and form it into loaves for the final proofing before baking. That's the reason for using Instant Types of yeast - so you can make bread faster - no proofing in water/sweetener and you can forgo one of the rises.

Personally, I would judge this recipe as having too much sweetener, which can affect yeast. The cinnamon can also adversly affect yeast. The mixing instructions are also non-traditional and may affect the yeast because of how and when you mix the yeast into the liquid ingredients. If you used the wrong type of yeast, all these things will have affected your yease aversely.

Just as you have do's and don'ts, rules and regulations, in your line of work, so does breadmaking.

??? What temperature was the boiling water/ingredients when you added the yeast/flour? If it's too cool, it won't activate the yeast. If it's too warm it will kill the yeast. Because these are not traditional instructions, I'd guess 120°F would work best - which is the temperature for fast-acting yeast products. Because the bulk of dry ingredients will drop the temperature of the mixture quickly when they are added, and the mixture needs to be approx. 100-110°F for the yeast to activate.

Somewhere along the line, your yeast died:

1. The liquid ingredients were too cold or too hot.

2. You used the wrong type of yeast.

3. You allowed the dough to rise the first time WAY too much or too long. I repeat! Dough does NOT rise to a timer or a clock. If it's risen to doubled in bulk in 25 minutes and you allowed it to rise for an hour, then you have over-proofed the dough. Allowing dough to rise, either in the bowl or after it's panned, beyond DOUBLE is over-proofing. If you don't allow dough to double, that's UNDER-proofing and you'll get a whole new crop of problems.

Yeast can only last so long, so it sounds like it's dead when you get it into the pan for the final proofing. That leads me to believe you allow the dough to rise too long after kneading. Reread my instructions about using a dough-rising bucket so that you can actually SEE when the dough has physically doubled in bulk.

* Check out this web site for some good general information, baking terms and guidelines: http://www.kitchenconservatory.com/bread.htm

Try the Bread-In-A-Bag recipe (link below) and see if you have any different results. It's a great recipe and method for anyone new to breads. I've never had anyone in my classes fail to get a loaf of bread using the Bread-In-A-Bag recipe.

http://rps.uvi.edu/CES/bread.htm

-Karen

[Fred_47460]

Fred -
* What type of yeast are you using?
The recipe calls for an INSTANT yeast and I'd suggest SAF-Instant. I tend to respect the author of recipes and use the type of yeast they indicate. Other brands of "instant" yeast are Bread Machine Yeast, Quick-Rise and Rapid-Rise.

If you are using Active Dry Yeast, then you are using the wrong type. Active Dry Yeast may not have the strength to work in this bread recipe since the recipe says INSTANT active dry yeast. I don't know if Quick-Rise or Rapid Rise are used by FZRaven? The instructions leave one guessing.

SAF-Instant is much stronger than other yeast types - even more so than Bread Machine Yeast, Quick-Rise or Rapid Rise (but all are considered "instant" types of yeast). They are designed to be added directly into the dry ingredients, rather than proofing the yeast in some warm water with a sweetener, although they can also be proofed in water. Yes, it is confusing, that's why I spend a lot of time in my classes just going over the different types of yeast.

* Another question I have about this recipe... If Instant Yeast is used, all you need after the dough has been kneaded is to cover it and allow it to rest for 10 minutes. Then divide the dough and form it into loaves for the final proofing before baking. That's the reason for using Instant Types of yeast - so you can make bread faster - no proofing in water/sweetener and you can forgo one of the rises.

??? What temperature was the boiling water/ingredients when you added the yeast/flour? If it's too cool, it won't activate the yeast. If it's too warm it will kill the yeast. Because these are not traditional instructions, I'd guess 120°F would work best - which is the temperature for fast-acting yeast products. Because the bulk of dry ingredients will drop the temperature of the mixture quickly when they are added, and the mixture needs to be approx. 100-110°F for the yeast to activate.

Somewhere along the line, your yeast died:

1. The liquid ingredients were too cold or too hot.

2. You used the wrong type of yeast.

-Karen



Thanks for all the help Karen!!

Where I seem to have screwed up....this time....is the temperature. I added the yeast to the mixture after mixing everything except the flour and boiling...and I did not wait long to let it cool first. I'm sure I killed the yeast straight away. The mess did not rise ANY, ANYTIME....during ANY part of my most recent cluster-flop. Just for the record, I was using "Red Star Quick Rise" yeast.

I'm afraid my breadmaking experiments will be on hold till next weekend....I work 6 days a week and sometimes THOSE days are 12 hour days.....and my work is a 2.5 hour round-trip away. Maybe next weekend I'll discover an entirely NEW way of screwing up ;D ;D ;D

My wife is chortling about this...because this is EXACTLY the problem she had with making bread.....couldn't get it to rise and it ended up like a brick.

One thing about me though....I DO NOT GIVE UP!!!

So till next time....Thanks for the help!!

Fred

[Fred_47460]

My 17 year old son....who has just a shade of his Dad's....er....whit...says that perhaps I should go into the brick making business. ;D

Fred

[cubcadet]

Anyone ever try making bread with no commercial yeast at all? Just 6 cups home ground flour, 6 cups pure water, and some sea salt to taste. Let it ferment for a couple days with a moist towel to cover the batch. You`ll be able to tell when it`s "working", when it`s full of small craters and holes when you stir it. Change the bowl every day. At this point, the wild yeasts that occur naturally in the air have gone into the batch. After about 3 days, take the batch and take 1 cup batch and mix with 1 cup fresh ground flour and throw the mess into a big bowl and knead it good, maybe adding some sae salt. Let it rise to double. Punch it down and let it rise again. punch it down and let it rise. When risen, pour it out on floured board to knead. knead 5 minutes, let rest. after risen double knead another 5. then put in appropriate oiled baking pan. cover with wet cloth and let rise to top. Put in HOT oven, around 375 degree. Last time I tried this one, It came out kind of hard, but it was the best sourdough bread I ever had. The remaining batch will stay good in fridge. Every day or 2, add a cup fresh flour for the wild yeast to digest. and it`ll keep you in bread for a couple weeks if you do it right. A bonus is the phytic acid in the flour will have been destroyed by the fermentation. It`s much more digestible without the phytic acid.

[Shamrock1121]

Cub -

There are about as many methods for naturally leavened breads as there are people making it. :D If you ever want to spend a day looking at contridictions, just do a Google search on - the care and feeding of sourdough starter. ???

I use a method called Everlasting Yeast, which is a 100 years old variation of traditional sourdough starters. I got the starter years ago from a friend who was in her 90's and she first got it from her mother when "she set up housekeeping" when she was first married. She has used it continuously since.

FYI - Phytic acid is reduced in yeast-risen bread as well as naturally leavened breads. I also think the jury is out about phytates. Research now shows that they may be involved in curbing free radicals in the body. But I DO believe whole grains are more digestible when soaked and loaves are much lighter.

I tend to use a sponge method when making 100% whole wheat flour- at least 2-1/2 hours. When it's cooler in the kitchen, I'll use an overnight (12-hour) sponge (aka preferment).

I follow a lot of the teachings in "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig, Ph.D. I even soak pecans and almonds overnight to reduce the phytic acid in them. Then I dehydrate them until they are crispy. This makes them much easier to digest.

When I make oatmeal with steel-cut oats or whole oat groats, I use an overnight soak with some whey from my kefir in it, then cook it in the morning. This also reduces the phytates, and oats happen to contain more phytates than almost any other grain.

Another naturally fermented dough method is called "old dough" where you keep a portion of the dough from one baking day to use as the starter the next time. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-old-dough-leavening.htm

I also make kefir sourdough starter using homemade kefir and whole wheat flour. You can see a similar method here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rihOeipJM2Y

Another method that really lightens the loaf is the Two-Stage Process by Sue Gregg. http://www.suegregg.com/about/Two%20Stage%20Process.pdf

-Karen

[rAcErRicK]

Karen, reading about your sourdough starter and the care and feeding of it, reminded me of something interesting on the subject. In pictures or even movies of many years ago, in the cattle driving days, remember seeing the wooden pail with a wooden lid, hanging under the cook's chuck wagon ?
My granpa told me that's what was in those buckets. The "cookie" would use that starter for the upcoming meal, to make his biscuits with, and then pinch off a handfull of the dough and put it back in the bucket, for the next meal. As you stated, Lord knows how old some of that stuff must have been. 100 years might not even touch it ! I wondered for years watching the old cowboy movies, what was in those buckets, and every chuck wagon had one. The pictures of the settlers going cross country in their covered wagons headed west all had 'em too. Remember ?

rick

[Shamrock1121]

Karen, reading about your sourdough starter and the care and feeding of it, reminded me of something interesting on the subject. In pictures or even movies of many years ago, in the cattle driving days, remember seeing the wooden pail with a wooden lid, hanging under the cook's chuck wagon ?
My granpa told me that's what was in those buckets. The "cookie" would use that starter for the upcoming meal, to make his biscuits with, and then pinch off a handfull of the dough and put it back in the bucket, for the next meal. As you stated, Lord knows how old some of that stuff must have been. 100 years might not even touch it ! *I wondered for years watching the old cowboy movies, what was in those buckets, and every chuck wagon had one. The pictures of the settlers going cross country in their covered wagons headed west all had 'em too. Remember ?

rick



Rick -

Great information and observation. *My dad said when he was growing up in Saskatchewan (1920's), he remembers a neighbor who was always "killing" her starter, or forgetting to set some aside and would use it all up. *She would come over to his mother (which was a great distance away) and ask for some. *It was pretty important stuff...

The ironic thing about "old" starter is that it's never really old because it's constantly being renewed with new ingredients. *Technically, there's little to no difference between new and old starters. *The bacteria is always being renewed by naturally-occuring yeast on the flour and in the air. *

I have a newspaper article in my Everlasting Yeast file*(circa. 1964) about a family in Bartlesville where they had a "narrow escape" with the starter (then over 50 years old), "when less than a teaspoon was saved, but it was nutured back to a usable quanity". *This particular starter was a souvenir brought back from the Chicago World's Fair (1893).

-Karen

[cubcadet]

Shamrock1121, . As you say there`s many ways of doin it. Mine comes from Tom Valentines now defunct Radio Free America, some 20+ year ago. Works for me. I even read in a cook book by somebody where a guy took the dough and rubbed it all over his hairy chest. Worked for him too. I`m here to learn and may just have learned from you.

[YounGrey]

Here's a few ideas that way you can try some out and see what you and your family like. Plus its always fun to try out new recipes, especially breads. :)

Berber Bread -
http://homesteadingrecipes.blogspot.com/2008/03/berber-bread.html

Whole Wheat Bread -
http://homesteadingrecipes.blogspot.com/2008/02/whole-wheat-bread.html

Spoon Bread -
http://homesteadingrecipes.blogspot.com/2008/01/spoon-bread.html

Potato Refrigerator Bread -
http://homesteadingrecipes.blogspot.com/2008/01/potato-refrigerator-bread.html

Honey Wheat Bread -
http://homesteadingrecipes.blogspot.com/2008/01/honey-wheat-bread.html

[Fred_47460]

SUCCESS ;D ;D ;D

I found a bread recipe I can't seem to screw up!! If you've read this forum thread you're aware of my uncanny ability to find ever new and interesting ways of making bread that could double as bricks.....could've probably built a house out of it by now ;D

Of all the things I've ever pictured myself doing, I never dreamed I'd be posting recipes on a forum!!

Here goes. This recipe is from "Amish Friends Cookbook" by Wanda E. Brunstetter....which has several very good looking recipes I'll sample as time goes by.
___________________________________________
Grandma's Honey Wheat Bread

4 cups warm water
2 heaping tablespoons yeast
1 egg
3/4 cup vegetable oil
1/2 cup honey
1/2 cup wheat germ
1 tablespoon salt
2 cups whole-wheat flour
9 cups all-purpose flour (approximately)

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Whisk together first seven ingredients. Add wheat flour first and up to 9 cups all-purpose flour. Let rise until double. Punch down and shape into loaves. Let rise to double again. Bake for 50 to 60 minutes. Yields 4 large loaves or 5 small ones.
______________________________________________

A few personal notes....It doesn't take more than about 35 to 40 minutes in our oven to bake. This stuff rises like crazy. We cut everything in half to get only 2 loaves. We are experimenting with different proportions of whole wheat/all purpose flour. What ever we try so far, the stuff raises like crazy and tastes great!!

ENJOY!! Fred_47460

[Shamrock1121]

SUCCESS *;D *;D *;D

I found a bread recipe I can't seem to screw up!! If you've read this forum thread you're aware of my uncanny ability to find ever new and interesting ways of making bread that could double as bricks.....could've probably built a house out of it by now ;D

Of all the things I've ever pictured myself doing, I never dreamed I'd be posting recipes on a forum!!

Here goes. This recipe is from "Amish Friends Cookbook" by Wanda E. Brunstetter....which has several very good looking recipes I'll sample as time goes by.
___________________________________________
* Grandma's Honey Wheat Bread

4 cups warm water
2 heaping tablespoons yeast
1 egg
3/4 cup vegetable oil
1/2 cup honey
1/2 cup wheat germ
1 tablespoon salt
2 cups whole-wheat flour
9 cups all-purpose flour (approximately)

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Whisk together first seven ingredients. Add wheat flour first and up to 9 cups all-purpose flour. Let rise until double. Punch down and shape into loaves. Let rise to double again. Bake for 50 to 60 minutes. Yields 4 large loaves or 5 small ones.
______________________________________________

A few personal notes....It doesn't take more than about 35 to 40 minutes in our oven to bake. This stuff rises like crazy. We cut everything in half to get only 2 loaves. We are experimenting with different proportions of whole wheat/all purpose flour. What ever we try so far, the stuff raises like crazy and tastes great!!

ENJOY!! * *Fred_47460


WOO HOO!

My only suggestion is to add 1/8 t. ascorbic acid (per loaf) to the dry ingredients - especially when you begin to use more whole wheat flour than white flour, and because it has additional wheat germ in the recipe.

There's a substance in wheat germ (which is also in freshly-milled whole wheat flour) called Glutathione that can affect the quality of your bread.

It looks like a recipe that could also be used for cinnamon rolls, burger/hot dog buns, and dinner rolls. :D

-Karen