Blackpowder help

[ozarksnick]

I've just recently aqcuired a CVA Hawken .50 blackpowder rifle.

It's used so it doesn't have any of the documentation I'm sure came with it originally.

So anyone care to give some hints on various loads for the thing?

It'll mainly be my deer gun, but I'll prolly try my hand with it on squirrels some day too so I'd like to know what the min/max loads for the gun.

Thanks.

[Tightwad]

This may help........

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/

and here..........

http://huntingsociety.org/muzzleloaders.html

[Toad_Sticker]

I use 70grns of FFg with a patched round ball.
light load but it kills the deer dead.
I have not found a bullet I like and the RB works for me just fine.
TS

[tufhelp]

Try CVA, they will provide all relevant instructions and safety information - may even be required by law. Won't hurt to ask the horses mouth anyway...

http://www.cva.com/

[Rick]

I use FFG and FFFG mixed 50/50. The "book" says you're not supposed to mix different grades, but I do it anyway and it works for me. I shoot a .490 round ball patched with a piece of pillow ticking.

The best way to find your optimum load is to start out with some load, say 45 grains, and work your way up in 5 grain increments until you find out what load has the tightest groups for your particular rifle.

My most accurate load is 55 grains. In a pinch, if you don't have a powder measure, you can put a round ball in the palm of your flat hand and pour powder over it until the ball is just barely covered up; that is pretty close to a middle of the road powder load.

Black powder is measured by volume, not weight like smokeless powder. Once you figure out a good load, you can make a permanent powder meadure out of the tip of a cow horn.

[hunter63]

Good advice, Rick, I found that for my .50 that the .490 patched w/pillow round ball ticking round ball, also shoots good at 55 grains.
It also shoots very good at 110 grains, this is my hunting load.

Good place to start is the volume of powder to the size of the ball for a start.

Be sure that you measure your patching material with a "Mic", all material isn't the same.
My old pillow ticking was approx. .15 and the new stuff only .010.
AS you are doing all the loading yourself, YOU are controling the variables.

[jpollock30]

Ozark,

I generally use 90 grains ffg in my CVA sidelock muzzleloader, along with round patched ball. Get more specific, what does it say on the barrel? What is the make of your cva sidelock?

I happen to own more then a few of the CVA bobcats. If the one you have has a synthetic black stock thats probably what it is... and they are just fine for muzzleloading hunting. I'd keep it at 90 grains ffg though, which is plenty at 50 yards and should be adaquate at 100 yards, but that's just me.

In my cva hawken style bobcat (which odds are, has the same barrel type/specifications as what you have even if you don't have a bobcat but have something with a nicer stock) I've been pretty happy with round patched balls, you can buy precut patches, but I no longer do. I keep my eye opened for closeout pillow ticking scraps at walmart in what they call the remnants pile at their fabric counter. For lube Ive found that crisco works just fine, and I've bought/used a number of fancier lubes including Thompson Center bore butter.

I don't like Pyrodex anywheres near as much as black powder, but pyrodex is easier to find by far, so for getting started you may want to try that. Might I suggest you track down yourself a musket cap replacement nipple for the #11 nipple that came with the gun, especially if you do use pyrodex. I got a few, I can't remember where from... maybe Tenesee Valley Manufacturing?... Heck I dunno, but I have been happy with them. What I'm talking about is a replacement nipple that is designed to work in CVA sidelocks, has the same screw threads, etc as the #11 cap nipple, but the use of musket caps dramatically increases the amount of flame that goes to the powder charge (and thus helps alot with ignition reliability).

If you do want one of those, (or several) then get them soon as CVA no longer makes the sidelocks, they've joined on the inline BS bandwagon. I don't want to start a traditional versus modern inline arguement here... I use what I find works. I have an inline too, but I like the sidelock as the sabot loads are alot more expensive (the inline fancy bullets) and I don't care what garbage they put on the package, you've got no business going after deer or other animals at 200 yards plus with a muzzleloader. The projectiles don't have enough velocity or mass at those ranges for a clean reliable kill. In fact, thats why the old time mountain men dropped their .50 cals for .54 when they headed west.... the extra weight of the projectiles (round balls, mini balls, whatever) in .54 made a difference.

Anyway, if you have a cva sidelock, chances are your barrel has a 1 in 48 rate of twist, and is designed to work well with round ball as well as ball-ets, mini balls, and something known as R.E.A.L. bullets (rifling engaged at loading). I don't think the R.E.A.L projecticles are as accurate as one might think, but they are devestating at 50 yards due to the mass of the suckers. REALs arent commercially sold, rather you make them yourself from scrap lead and a Lee bullet mold.

Anyone who has suggestions on a good stiff lube reciepe for the REALS, Id appreciate it, as I dont think the crisco cuts it with them (not a tight enough fit).

If you give me your address, I guess I'll be nice and mail you an extra CVA manual which was pretty much the standard for all of their sidelocks.

[VirginiaHunter]

OZ, I would find out what the twist rate is on your rifle, I doubt (ie disclamer ;-) your rifle has a 1:66 twist, more likely it's a 1:48. I'msure a ptached round ball would work fine, but I'd take advantage of a conical or perhaps a powerbelt type of projectile. If your twist rate is even fater 1:32 or 1:28 try sabots. I have a TC 54 cal sidelock tat is 1:48 and the best shooting projectile has been the powerbelts with 110grn of FFg black powder.

If I were you I'd get a selection of projectiles and then start out below max on the powder and work my way up to what shoots the most consitant group.

my 2 bits

[Eli80Cal]

lately I have been playing around with reduced loads in my CVA .50. Very fun and cheap. 20 grains of FFFG will get a ball out around 900 fps, and shoot pretty close to point of aim. I like FFFG over FFG for the reduced loads because I think the ball engages the rifling a bit more with the quicker burn.

[clawhammerdan]

I have a .54 Hawken and I shoot 90 grains of FFg with a .530 ball in a prelubed patch. Others probably shoot with more powder, but that's what I find works for me. Why shoot more powder than you need? With a .50 I'd probably start with 70 grains ...shoot 5 rounds from a bench...add five grains upping to 75-shoot five more rounds, etc. Until you find the combination that works for you. You're gonna love black powder if you're just new to it. By the way...I tried the Pyrodex (black powder substitute.) Didn't care for it. Switched back to black posder. Good luck and keep us informed.

[junegypsy]

Don't use over 100gr. ff or 80gr. fff, use prb or ball-ets/Hornady Pa.conicals. Others conicals from 270gr. up to 460gr. in 50 cal. Starting loads 60gr. the higher the load behind the conicals harder the recoil. Its a matter of working up a load, start at 25 yds. shoot at least 3 times same load to see group. Wet patch and dry patch after each shot!