Speaking of .223 Rifles.

[jim]

Today I handled a new Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle, and an AR180D.

The Ruger has been greatly improved, with great open sights, a new synthetic stock, that gives it very imporved balance and fit. The new non-glare stainless steel (I forget their term) looks like pot metal, but is well executed. BBl 1-10 twist. Ambi-safety.

The new AR180 is good with decent balance, but not great. Sights are as good as the Ruger, and it uses M16 mags that one doesn't have to spend a fortune on. Bbl. 1-9". RH safety only unless there is an after-market unit.

Advertized price on both was 801.00, and sticker of both was about 650.00.

Considering the op-rod action and magazine availability, I'd have to go with the AR180 as opposed to the Ruger even though I liked the handling of the Ruger better.

And what's with the Ruger non-oem mags? They're folded sheet metal and springs. It ain't rocket science. How can anyone be so derilict in their manufacturing techniques as to charge you ten times the price an item ought to go for and still not deliver on what is expected of the product? >:( Even the stinking commies can make rifle magazines, what's wrong with these buffoons? >:(

jim

[magic308]

Jim,

We have purchased 7 of the new style Mini 14 at the Prison I work at (KY DOC).

The ones we have at work are the LEO models, they don't have the bayonet lug and the front sights are moved closer to the flash hider, in turn gives a longer sight radius, and I could see a big change in qualifing
Officers/Program Staff this year with these.

The only thing I dislike about them is the rear sight. All it is ,is a peep sight that screws up/down, to set windage there are two allen screws on both sides, you have to loosen one side and then tighten the other to move it then retighten the other side back. Wish they would've
stayed with the older rear sight set-up.

They do have cuts in the receiver for mounting a scope, and one thing also there is 2 extra pieces that I see no need for internaly. They have a circular piece where the recoil spring rests into the receiver.

They too have a flat stainless color with synth. stocks. Our policies changed about a year and half ago to add that we can now purchase AR's, but these were ordered before they changed it. This came because one of the new prisons that was built had ordered 15+ AR's and they were just sitting in the armory and couldn't be used, so they changed the Policy....lol

I purchased a AR180B about a year ago, I liked it some what, it was a good shooter, and yeap it takes the AR magazines which are 4X cheaper than Mini's. The only AR magazine that doesn't work in it is the Beta C mag.

I had to remove the bolt catch to make it function with the beta mag.

Danny

[Bwana]

Well, I've got an AR and am not in need of any other .223 carbine (though a Kel-Tech SU-16 sure is interesting as a trunk gun!) and this isn't about the aforementioned pair, so I hope this doesn't qualify as a hijack!

I was at the local Gander Mountain last Sunday afternoon, the day before Labor Day. They had something I hadn't ever seen before! It was a pump rifle, like a 7600, except it had a detachable magazine and was chambered in .223! Kinda cool lookin', if I do say so myself! :D

Anyone heard of this? When was it introduced, and why was I not informed? ::) ;)

Dave

[jim]

Yeah, I've seen the pump Remingtons, and would get one if they weren't as expensive as an AR.

jim

[Bwana]

Jim,

you saw a pump Remington (7600). matte black with black synthetic stock/forearm and a carbine length barrel with a stubby AR-style mag in .223 Rem.?

I'm not sure if you're saying you've seen standard pump Rem. 7600 in standard calibers or this one which isn't listed anywhere on their website (including limited run and custom shop guns).

I should clarify, all 7600's have detachable mags but this one had an AR style 5-rounder, similar to what my varmint AR came with.

Dave

[gunslinger2006]

That sounds like one of their law enforcement guns. It takes an AR magazine, I believe. They came out with it a year or two ago as patrol rifle companion to the 870.

[Bwana]

Aha, thanks gunslinger! Now we may rest easy. 8)

Dave

[jim]

Yep, that's the one. Nice looking gun, and I wouldn't mind having one.

jim

[LaunchPad]

Just where are you shopping for mini magazines?

try www.cheaperthandirt.com 30 round mags like $10. for the actual ruger made mags- sure price goes up 2 fold but you said "non-oem mags"

Also look at www.midwayusa.com
or shotgun news- i see those mags all the time- have about 40 of them too no problems so far on any of our several mini's

Most AR guys are not going to use the iron sites- the get an aimpoint or any of the other holgraphic sites. the mini will take them too- that is the point of the ranch rifle anyway- pop up sites and all.

There are foregrips and picianny rails and all the other envouge AR accessories that will bolt up to the mini as well.

I have yet to shoot an AR i like better than the least of my mini's. However i am attempting to give the AR's a fair shake and currently building a few with our military AR club. eventually, i will put them head to head and compare dollar to dollar just which is best.

oh and $650 was too much for that gun- dealer had a pretty hefty mark up which is not uncommon.
i have a blued synthetic with folding stock i paid $400 for and a stainless synthetic i paid $500 for and it came with a thousand rounds. Both ranch rifles. $400 is usually my baseline- fat chance getting an AR for that.

[jim]

Launch pad

Guns go for higher prices here in Austin than in other places. I've heard of 400.00 Mini's, but never seen a new one for that. The gun shop I went to was one of the more economical ones in the area.

I'm happy to hear that some things have changed in the last 25 years it's been since I've owned a Mini, and tried the non-oem magazines. Which of the mags you mentioned do you like the best?

I prefer open sights, but am willing to try one of the holo-sights for a while and see how it works.

What kind of groups do you get with your Mini's? Will the new ones feed expanding ammo? Have you tried SS109?

Thanks
jim

[LaunchPad]

Jim,

sorry about the COFI in your area (cost of firearms index) want me to be looking in th thrifty nickle for you?

wow- let me try and answer the questions.

Ok mags- had to go pull one out of the web gear- i keep them loaded all the time. (don't believe the caca about not doing that- i can tell you why if you care) . neither the 30 rounders or the 20's had a makers stamp on them. but i believe i got them from www.cheaperthandirt.com back in the early 90's. the 40's i got rid of them as they were more problematic and don't fit i the web gear.


holo sights - the worth while ones are going to cost about the same as a mini- so try before you buy. I do not know if the $39 one in sportsmans guide is worth even that much or going to be a fair comparison to the "real" ones.

with the right ammo i can get sub 1" groups with my minis at 100 yards using a scope. the mini s tend to be very sensitive to ammo weight. (i am doing a feasibilty look at a upgrade to a HB mini- designed myself to take AR barrels to open options- but the gas system/ bolt handle on the mini complicates that)

i have no feed problems with various ammo types and tried about everything. I even have some blanks from my last trip to the field- need the cap just like the AR.

yes i have tried the ss109- i still have about 700 rnds left. It did not go so well- but i suspect that the ammo was live tumbled as the green tips were all gone and the brass was somewhat nicked and scratched but VERY shinny. i got the case lot from sportsmanguide.com for cheap. some rnds were going to EXACTLY where i was aiming no deviation others were off by as much as six feet at 100 yards and the primers were flattened- it really was scary. if i do not toss the ammo i may pull the tops and reload with fresh powder. i will not buy ammo from them again and have not tried other vendors for that round yet.

my folder really likes the 55 gr hand load i came up with. if i get a bipod the 1" may be coming down a little. but also it REALLY is not cost effective to reload 223. Now if i can accumulate enough fired 22 LR brass and get that corbon die to make the projectiles. . . . ..

[jim]

Thanks for the info.

When on active duty, I kept my mags loaded to 90% for general patrols. That went to 100% if I knew we were going to use them.

Does anyone have more than limited experience with shooting JHP's and JSP's from auto-loading rifles? I know that mashed tips of exposed lead on spire points blows off going down the barrel and is of no consequence, but how about JHP's? Does the accuracy deteriorate past a certian range?

jim

[Crash]

I was at the local Gander Mountain last Sunday afternoon, the day before Labor Day. They had something I hadn't ever seen before! It was a pump rifle, like a 7600, except it had a detachable magazine and was chambered in .223! Kinda cool lookin', if I do say so myself! :D

Anyone heard of this? When was it introduced, and why was I not informed? ::) ;)

Dave[/quote]

Bwana,

This is model 7615 with a 16 1/2" bbl that accepts all standard AR mags. I believe the price is around $650. Although intended for LE, I believe it's available to everybody.

Crash

[LakeCity]

I would take the 180. I have owned several of the Mini-14's and was always disappointed with the accuracy. Do yourself a favor and do a Google scan for "Mini-14 accuracy" and read for yourself.

I myself prefer the AR-15 platform but am currently in the market for one of the new 180's to try out. They have great reviews.

As an aside, I think Remington calls that police pump a "Patrol" and heres a link to it.
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm

With best regards,
Jeff in Texas