Rural King tractors (made in China) ?

[SPIKE]

Is there anyone out there that owns one or knows any owners?
I really need to get off my @$$ and buy a tractor. I have been in need ever since I moved onto my property over a year ago.
I will not be a full time farmer, but need a machine that will be ready any time I have the free time to use it!
I am leary of buying used because I do not wish to buy someones problem that they decided to unload!
Popular name brands are just more than I can afford at this time.
I have been to a couple of message boards that spoke well of them and I personally know one person that has had one for over 2 years and they said they are happy with it and have had no problems with it.
The Foton 40 hp model the local store has in stock sells for around $8000 and a front-end loader will run around $3700 to add. This is many thousands less than popular name brands.
Does the phrase, "you get what you pay for" come into play here???????????

Any advise positive or negative will be appreciated.

SPIKE

[GREEN_ALIEN]

You get what you pay for leads the way followed by you don't get what they ain't got!

I have a friend with a 34HP (I think) that has been waiting 5 months for a gear in the front axle. Broke under warranty and dealer happy to replace it just can't get it from the manufacturer.

A tractor in the field is worth many thousands more than one in the shop...

Some suggestions:
Branson 42 hp 4X4 with loader and backblade 20K and a 4 year warranty. Cummins Powered. Best small tractor I have owned. I use it as a general all around tractor and a feed tractor, that means it handles hundreds of 1000 lb bales a year in all weather. Made in Korea.

Mahindra, My first choice but they are/were in the enviable position of being backordered well beyond my immediate need. Good tractor but the extra weight can be just as bad as it is good. Made in India. 24K

Case and New Holland were the same tractor made in the same plant in Korea.... Big difference was paint. 24-25K

John Deere. This one will spark some debate but yup the local dealer says "all JD small compact tractors are made in asia..." You are buying the same thing with pretty green paint and a price tag. He sent me to Branson. 29K

All of the above were based on the same size tractor in 38 to 42 HP.

The biggest reason us farmer types buy Green (JD) or Red (Case) tractors is LOCAL PARTS AVAILABILITY. You can't use it if it won't go.

Don't buy any tractor that the dealer can't walk you through a fully stocked parts department. The best tractors ever made break down, nature of the beast and all.

Ted

[GREEN_ALIEN]

Deb,

Kubota stacks up real well if bought from a dealer (grey market and all ya know).

The only trouble I ran into was they didn't have the right combination of features for my needs. I could not get the HP I wanted in a farm version only industrial thus no PTO, I could get close but then there was the price... I could have bought green.

All and all they are equal or better than any american tractor which are not american anyhow lol. Expect to pay 4-5 K over some of the other popular brands.

Ted

[DM]

I have several tractors on my farm, and i expect them to be ready for work when i am... I expect them to be reliable too... At this time i won't have a chinease tractor on my place... They DO have problems and in this case, you DO get what you pay for...

My last two farm tractors that i bought new are Agco's, and they have been excelent. I have a very good Agco dealer here too.

I also own a Kubota now, and have had a couple others. They are pretty good IF used as they were designed to be used, meaning unless you get a "M" series they aren't real farm tractors. The "L" series that most folks buy are compact tractors, and are medium duty tractors that will do a lot of garden work and are great for small truck farms. (same thing for all other brands of compact tractors)

For a lower priced decent tractor, i'd look at Mahindra, Branson, TYM. They have decent compact tractors and are now also entering into the farm tractor market with bigger HP tractors.

I wouldn't have a problem buying a used tractor in good shape at all, but i'd get someone who knows tractors to look at it, even if i had to pay a mechanic to go with me!

BTW, i wouldn't buy too old of a tractor either, get something new enough that it has a "modern" diesel engine, it will be your best bet!

DM

[DM]

For all of my tillage needs when truck farming/gardening i'd invest in a rototiller. (Howard calls theirs a rotavator) My first choise in brands would be Howard. The second choise is Maschio. I had 3 Howards up untill last year when i sold the oldest one. I'm still useing the other 2 here on my farm and also comercially..

Once i learned how to use a rotavator, i've no longer had a use for a plow or a disk. A rotavator will make a much better seed bed for veggies, and do it useing less fuel and with less compaction.

I have been doing custom rotavating for many years now, and i believe Howard has the toughest tillers on the market, and they are also one of the most expensive. For me, they have been worth the $$, as i never know what i will hit in a field and the Howards can really take what ever comes along.

I compost right in the field, and then turn the compost by tilling it. This is so much easier than haveing compost piles and haveing to move them and deal with them!

Here's my little Kubota tractor with it's 42" Howard...

DM

http://www.fototime.com/{6EB5A7B4-EB91-4869-8F28-A86FCE895ADE}/picture.JPG

[SPIKE]

Thanks Ted and DM for the input.

I stopped by Rural King last Saturday and the man that had just bought the last 40 hp that they had at that time, was picking it up. Actually, he drove it away and the diesel engine sounded good. He spent a little time talking to me about it. This was the second tractor he had purchased there. He still has the first and said that it has not given him any problems in the 2 years that he has owned it. He has cattle in two different locations and wanted a second tractor so he would not have to move the one from place to place.

I also spoke with another Foton owner. He is very pleased with his tractor that he has had for almost 2 years. He also said that his first Foton tractor did have a few problems, but that with the newer models these problems have been resolved. One of the problems had to do with the front axle, but the front axle on the new ones is a new design.

I am still looking and weighing my option.

DM, I have been told that the rototillers that were PTO driven were hard on the the PTO gears. I guess you have not experienced any problems with yours. Thanks for mentioning that.

Ted, I thought Mahindra tractors were another of the brands to stay away from because of the availability of parts.

SPIKE

[DM]

DM, I have been told that the rototillers that were PTO driven were hard on the the PTO gears. I guess you have not experienced any problems with yours. Thanks for mentioning that.

This is true if you buy a tractor that isn't built well enough to take it, but what good is a tractor with a PTO if the PTO driveline is too weak to do the job you bought the tractor for??

Have you checked into what a chinease tractor is worth resale wise?? Those i know that have them, are "stuck" with them! (there words not mine)

Here's my 40hp tractor that has run this 6' Howard rotavator 500 hours before i sold the tiller. I had owned it about 20 years and it made me a lot of $$$ over the years. This is the third tractor i used that rotavator on.....

DM

http://www.fototime.com/{0A04756B-8908-49FA-A405-C4E394FE6E89}/picture.JPG

[mj1angier]

www.tractorbynet.com

This is the best site I have found for tractor info. It cover all brands and most gray market tractors. Has good info on how to, projects, build your own info..... Realy leans toward the small to midsize.

[DM]

My soil looks like that because of years and years of putting huge amounts of grass, hay, and leaves in it along with TP, (turkey poop) letting it compost in the rows. It takes time to build your soil, but if you keep after it, you will be rewarded!!

"If" you liked the last Howard rotavator pict... you will love this one. This is my bigger one that i do "field" work with... It's 7 feet wide...

http://www.fototime.com/{DC397251-813B-42E7-AF18-8283AED94A0D}/picture.JPG

I bought it a few years ago, and it's also been a great tool. You can see what one pass over a field get's you, and that field had a mix of rye and vetch in it. I took the hay off it for horse hay and then rotavated it for the next crop.

As for tractor by net... I started going there when it first came on line. I finally got tired of all the mis-information there when it came to useing a tractor for actual farming.

There is some good info there but you really have to do a lot of sorting to find it. It's a yuppie site that has lots of tractor owners that mow grass and polish there tractors.... Most believe "their" tractor will do anything! I have seen quite a few "broken tractor" pictures there when they try to farm or do HD work with there compacts...

BTW, i want to mention that there's a HUGE difference between a 3 point rototiller and a field rototiller. (rotavator)

DM

[Eagle]

Great Thread...

Awesome to see the "sharing" of good info like this!

"Hats Off" to You, DM...
for the passing on of 'on hand' experience and knowledge.

I learned something...always appreciate that in here.

Good Luck to All...
preparing and bringing out the next planting season!

[mj1angier]

"As for tractor by net... I started going there when it first came on line. I finally got tired of all the mis-information there when it came to useing a tractor for actual farming"

I think that there are more "yuppie" and small hobby farmer now than there are hard core dirt turners. Info on how to clear 5 ac. will be needed by more than how to use GPS to till 500ac. The small tractor market is what is growing, not the 50hp + market.Most folks on there are like me first time tractor owner, learning as I go, learning from my mistakes, learning from theirs. We learn when what we have is right for the job and when to call the pros.

[SPIKE]

Thanks for all the advise and warnings.

Since my last post here, I have been able to talk with 4 other owners of a foton tractor in my area. They are all pleased with the tractor and the service they have received from their local Rural King store.

So.......I may be throwing away good money, but if I do not get a lemon from the get-go...................

For my occasional needs I think the savings in cost makes it worth a try.
I have ordered a 40 hp Foton with a spirit front end loader. The loader is quick detach, but I doubt it will be removed very often. I also have purchased a box blade, bush hog, and finish mower. These implements are all made by Farm Star and are all 6 ft wide. They are the better grade of implements that they sell.

Total cost after a 10% (plus a little) discount was $13,010. Then I had them throw in the first service ($100 value), a 20 x 30 tarp (needed until I can finish my shed) and a diesel fuel can (don't you just hate those unvented cans).

The hard part now is waiting for it to be delivered. Should have it in about a week.

Name brand tractor alone would have cost more than my whole purchase. Wish me luck!!!!! I will be sharing my opinions of my new toy with everyone here.
Time will tell if I have made a mistake, but I have spoken with enough owners to give it a try.

SPIKE

[SPIKE]

Also They threw in 2 year extended warranty at half price.

SPIKE

[SPIKE]

I hope this old thread will come back up.

Hey Docjered, here is my input on a chineese tractor.
I still only have 30 hrs on my tractor, but it has been a good purchase so far!

SPIKE

[docjered]

Thanks for bringing this thread back, Spike... glad you are having luck with your tractor... I am looking at the Jinma front end loader, which has had some bad press due to design error of the hydraulics and parts availability. I understand there is a US upgrade to these which makes it better and compatible with US standard hoses etc.

[opsrto]

Hey Doc
Check out M&M Tractors. They are just off 44 and seem to just about have what you want.
I havent bought from them but I have a friend who got one.
I will stick to my 1957 Ford 641 ( two each) ;) and my (hopfully) new 1954 8N lawn mower

[WRTN]

If you are looking for a good RELIABLE and simple gear shift type compact tractor, the John Deere 790 or if you need a bit larger tractor the John Deere 990 are both VERY good machines and in my opinion provide the best bang for the buck. Both of these tractor are built by Yanmar for John Deere.

Another brand that is also worth looking at is Kioti. The DK 45 and DK 65 are both solid reliable machines.

[SPIKE]

I am still very happy with my "cheap" tractor. It served me well for the first year.

I did have one minor fluid leak that was taken care of by warranty. Where the rod that ingages the 4 wheel drive goes into the transfer case, there was an O ring that had to be replaced.

SPIKE

[bee_pipes]

Got a buddy here with a Jinma tractor, sold under the name Farm Pro. He's not growing cotton or anything, so it suits his needs. On more than one occasion he's needed parts - noting major, just routine maintenance stuff. He's not big on the internet, so he comes over and we hunt the parts down. Not much trouble finding replacements. He can't find his manual (if he ever had one) and we have had no problem finding the manual and replacement diagrams on-line. Other than the cost of diesel, he's pretty happy, and I've gotten the benefit of his post-hole digger attachment more than once.

Regards,
Pat

[WRTN]

I am still very happy with my "cheap" tractor. It served me well for the first year.

I did have one minor fluid leak that was taken care of by warranty. Where the rod that ingages the 4 wheel drive goes into the transfer case, there was an O ring that had to be replaced.

SPIKE

Spike,

Glad to hear you are having good luck with your tractor.

Not sure if you have seen these but below are a few links that may come in handy for you in the future.

http://www.ctoa.net/ (excellent forum for chinese tractor owners, LOTS of info. & knowledge)

http://www.artrac.com/index.html (Chip Uren is the owner of this dealer that sells various versions of these tractors and he has been VERY helpful in the past with good info. and helping other folks with these tractors. He is not too far from you.)

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1nh79/id14.html

http://www.chinaimporters.com/tractors/

[SPIKE]

Glad to hear that information on parts is availble on line, but I hope I will not need any soon. I didn't put but maybe 40 hrs on it in the first year. I do work it hard when it is in use, but it should have an easy long life.

Thanks fo the links. I've read some on the ctoa site, but not looked at the others before.

SPIKE

[SPIKE]

I have not been around for longer than I realized!!! LOL
I do feel like I made an obligation to provide an update on my "cheap tractor".
It has now been 2 years since my purchase and warranty has just expired. There is only about 80 hrs. on my tractor, but some have been hard hours. The only other problem I have encountered is a leaking hydraulic cylinder on the steering. I reported it before the warranty ran out and Rural King will be providing me with a new one. We will see how long that takes.

There has been a lot of time spent using the FEL and box blade to clean up my 10 1/2 acres. I was able to get the company back hoe (before I got laif off) a couple of months ago and used it for a week. My Ol' Lady used the tractor to keep brush and trees out of my way as I used the back hoe. For a 40hp with 4 wheel drive, it did well even with my Lady's lack of tractor experience. She became well versed in the use of the FEL and box blade before it was all over. She thinks it is her newest favorite toy!! LOL

I will try to keep updating this thread.

SPIKE

Hope everyone is well

[SPIKE]

I think it was the day after I made the post above that a metal hydraulic line started leaking where a banjo fitting was attached to the end. I called and told Rural King about it and they agreed to cover it under warranty also.

It took about a month for the steering cylinder to come in and it took about 2 months for the hydraulic line to come in.

When the line started leaking I made sure they would not need me to return the old line, then I had the banjo fitting brazed back onto the metal line. So the line was no big deal.

It did take too long to get such a simple part as a metal hydraulic line. I have expressed my thoughts on this to Rural King and have let them know that this would not have been acceptable had this not been a situation that I could easily fix.

SPIKE

[SPIKE]

WOW, another year has gone by!!!

My cheap tractor is still doing well, but it does not get used a lot. It only has a little over 100 hrs. on it. I use it a lot for lifting objects and moving stuff with the FEL. It gets little continous run time. The pasture area is only about 3 acres and it does not get cut often.

SPIKE

[Str8laced]

If you are interested in owing and using a piece of Americana, but do not wish to throw the dice on a used tractor, How about a Freshly buillt 60 year old N series? The price looks close to what you wish to spend, and unlike the the gray market tractors, parts are cheap and EVERYWHERE. Tractor supply has many parts for these tractors on the shelf, and can order just about anything else in a day or 2.

I own and use an 8N and love it, but some folks seem to disagree. Anyhow:

http://www.n-complete.com/Index/remanufacturedtractors.php

[patience]

I have a farm repair shop. It's not the typical bolt-on-a-new-part operation. I fix the old parts, or make new ones from scratch, doing machining, welding, and sheet metal work. I get a lot of business on imported tractors, due to lack of parts availability.

Chinese hydraulic fittings are some oddball threads, not just metric, which I can adapt to, but some bastard metric. Hoses fail, and it turns into a nightmare. I typically end up retapping the holes to NPT (pipe threads) so a standard hydraulic fitting will work. Iron castings often break, and exhaust manifolds burn out. Parts can't be had. I've repaired a lot of Kubota 3 point lift arms--the hydraulics are stronger than the arms. Internal parts failure, of gears, special shafts, steering knuckes, etc., are sometimes impossible buy or repair, and cause for junking an otherwise good 10 year old tractor. Satoh comes to mind. I had made a head gasket for a Satoh (out of copper sheet and asbestos paper) the year before the guy shucked the PTO final drive gears out of it. Then it was junked.

I was told that Mahindra bought the manufacturing rights for old IH designs, the 404/406 series, maybe among others, and that most IH parts would fit. (?) I don't know, but it's worth a shot if you need parts for one.

Tractors are usually a 30+ year investment. I have no confidence that our govt won't embargo the Chinese at some point, or vice versa. If you can't maintain it, it is useless. Personally, You couldn't give me a foreign made tractor, with the possible exception of Kubota. They make quality equipment, but they are as costly to buy and repair as a red or green one. So, why not get red or green? I won't open the debate between those. Both are good.

[patience]

These are dandy small tractors, for many purposes, as long as it is not a high power application. If you are going to do any heavy tillage, they just don't have the weight/horsepower for it. I owned one, and got along with it, but I sold it for $1,500 at auction (20 years ago) and bought a lot more tractor at the time for $1,200 (Massey 65). Demand was high for the smaller Fords and had the prices high.

Lately I've seen 35HP to 60HP gasoline tractors sell for a pittance, which for the occassional user might be a good buy. The Ford N's are compact, cheap to run, and easy to fix. The 3 point hitch is mostly (not always) an advantage. My only downside to them is lack of traction and power.

[DM]

The Ford "N" series... I've owed them too...

Lack of live power
Lack of live hydrauilcs.
Lack of remotes
Lack of "lift power" on the 3 point
Put a loader on it, and you will find the lack of power steering
AND the biggest "lack" of all, is the lack of a low speed first gear. They are geared too fast in first gear.

They do make a good "cow chaser" though, or maybe something to drive to the mailbox... lol

DM

[patience]

Yeah, the low gear is only good for those 2-12" mounted plows, provided the ground is perfect, and you don't want to go more than about 5" deep in our red clay. I think the later model Fords had a 3 spd over a 2 spd, IIRC, which is a big improvement. I personally like the Massey 35's for that size niche, but if you are going to do any serious work, it takes more than 25-30 HP.

[SPIKE]

Time for another update on my cheap chinese tractor.
There have been a few more minor problems that I admit may be an indication of things to come, time will tell.
With only about 3 of my 10 1/2 acres being cleared, there is little continous run time for my tractor. It has now been a bit over 4 years and I only have 151 hours (thereabout) on the hour meter. I think I stated before that it is used more like construction equipment than a farm tractor.

The other metal hydrualic steering line started leaking at the banjo fitting just like the first. I was not able to promptly get a replacement, So I just took it to be brazed.

There is a part on the hood latch that is made of a flat piece of metal. It probably should have been made with a small piece of angle. The piece bent, so I redneck engineered the latch.

The cable you pull to shut down the engine has now broken for the second time and is too short this time to reattach. Replacement cable cost $11.99.

There have been no major problems and it still does the job.

SPIKE

[SPIKE]

I forgot to add that patience was for sure right about the hydraulic fittings being oddball metric. Before I had the metal line brazed, I did look into replacing it with a hose!

SPIKE

[oldtimer]

Why to heck, if a person had the money to buy a new tractor would you waste money on a Chinese tractor?????

Isn't it bad enough they're making every other little stupid gadget??

I look for American made in everything and it's gettin harder and harder but I still believe that we should support American business instead helping out the Communisits.

There *are* still American tractor companies you know. Or how about buying a good older tractor. I have five tractors and the newest is a 51 model. It's a wonderful to30 Ferguson. Now I ask you, do you think that Chinese tractor will still be working for you in ten years let alone sixty years?

[SPIKE]

Easy there oldtimer! It almost sounds like you are attacking me!

If you read the thread, then you see where my thoughts were. I weighed the facts and opinions and made a choice. I admit it may turn out to be bad, time will tell.
I looked at used in the area. One of them was a Massey Ferguson and it had a Mfg tag on it that said it was made in Poland!!

You may consider me to be unamerican, but our own goverment pays communist China way more money in interest on loans than my little purchase will ever add up to!

For $7100 I got a new 40hp, 4 wheel drive, ready to accept a FEL without modifications, with remote hydraulics, tractor. So far it has taken all the asbuse and is still doing fine!

I hope I will still be using it in 10 years and 60 years fron now I will not much care!

As long as admin will allow me to, I will come back to this thread and GIVE FACTUAL UPDATES, GOOD AND BAD!

SPIKE

[MooseToo]

buying ANY new tractor is a crapshoot - but, according to owner experience reports, the odds are stacked against you with chinese brands - many complain about mechanical reliability but even more complain about parts and service availability - not to mention warranty compliance problems -

if considering a chinese model my advice would be to restrict buying from only a major, well-established dealer who carries a number of major tractor lines - someone who is really driven to maintain a good reputation - someone who will suffer if a new customer who bought a $7K tractor complains loudly and publicly while his lot is full of inventory that runs $80K a copy - i'd NEVER buy chinese from a catalog -