How to get started with whole grains

[Deberosa]

Karen's posts about mills and others have me interested in going with making our own bread and grinding our own grain.

Where do you suggest I start - that is, what kinds of grains are best to start with. I would like to do some kind of oat bread since that is what we are buying now from Costco plus other kinds of grains. Does it take more experience to work with oat, flax, rye, etc? Or is it pretty much the same. What kinds of storage systems should I start with - just plastic tubs?

Thanks for any advice you may have.

Debbie

[Shamrock1121]

What kind of baking are you already doing? *I made a financial commitment over the coarse of several years (the mills, bread machine, hundreds of pounds of grains/beans/seeds), so I could improve our diet, *control the ingredients in the foods we eat, and make foods cheaper - so I make all baked goods that we use to justify the purchases. *But I've always made breads (although we still used commercial breads) and baked goods, I just changed to freshly-milled flour and making ALL our baked goods. *

Time is also a big commitment in this day and age - can you afford the time on a regular basis? *If you don't normally bake and don't have the time, then you might need to do a reality check before jumping in. *If I don't make it, we don't have it - and I'm not going to purchase commercial baked goods - they are just too expensive on my limited budget. *After eating homemade for so many years, commercial baked goods and breads taste awful to us.

My best suggestion is to make small changes over a period of time, especially if you have a family who might balk at homemade or whole grain foods. *When I teach classes on the subject, I suggest cookies and dinner rolls to start with. *Those seem to be two foods most people love to eat a homemade version of. *Dinner rolls can quickly turn into hot dog buns and hamburger/sandwich buns - they are just a different shape of the same dough. *It took us 6 months to wean ourselves from commercial bread.

Do you have a bread machine? *It's a good labor-saving devise - even if all you do is use it for mixing the dough like I do. *If not, I've just gotten a book that revolutionizes bread making for even the busiest person. *Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day *

Here's a couple videos:

http://www.startribune.com/video/11967361.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMxJgIpe38Q

Here's a recipe for the basic dough (I've got the 100% Whole Wheat recipe in the refrigerator and will bake some of it off today - it's the first time I've used this method).

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/dining/211brex.html?_r=2&ref=dining&oref=slogin&oref=slog in

There are a lot of details about grains you'll need to know. *Wheat, for instance, comes in three basic varieties. *Hard wheat is high in gluten which is necessary for making good loaves of bread. *Soft wheat is low-gluten and best used for pastry, quick breads, cookies, biscuits, etc. *Durum wheat has the highest protein/gluten content, but because of the make-up of the proteins, it's best used for making wholegrain pasta and noodles, not bread. *So you need to store the grains you will need for a variety of baking, not just for bread. *I also prefer white varieties of wheat, not the traditional red varieties. *If you are switching from commercial bleached or unbleached white flour, you'll enjoy the mild flavor of white wheat varieties. *It's a MUST for converting whole wheat haters *;).

Additions of low-gluten flour from grains like oats, rye, barley to bread requires a certain percentage of high-gluten flour (wheat) in order to make a good lofty loaf. *Most oat bread recipes are plain bread recipes with some oatmeal added to it, rather than oat flour. *You can mill oat flour from the whole grain (oat groats) or in a blender using oatmeal. There are plenty of tips, tricks and science to making bread. *I've studied the science and the ingredients for years - it's been a great hobby and I'm learning stuff all the time. *There are several bread-making methods to choose from. *You'll probably find one you like and stick with it. *

I prefer panned breads over Atrisan and rustic loaves - although I make both. *I'm a stickler for bread serving sizes and I can control that easier with panned breads. *I can cut a 1-ounce slice straight and even. *

I can also bake 2 loaves of bread in my Sharp Convection/Microwave in 25 minutes - NO preheating - that's an economy of time and money with energy costs going up all the time. *Some Artisan breads require high baking temperatures and long preheating and a baking stone in the oven (as long as 1 hour of preheating if you are using a hearth kit in the oven). *I just can't justify that for a crispy crust.

I also like to use pullman pans instead of traditional loaf pans, especially if we are serving non-whole wheat bread eaters or people who aren't accustomed to homemade bread. *My recipe for 100% whole wheat bread is as light as any white bread because of the method and type of wheat I use. *A pullman pan is a loaf pan that has a lid with it. *You bake the bread with the lid on it for a portion of the time and remove it to finish the loaf. *The baked bread results in a sandwich-style loaf. *No crust - square slices like commercial sandwich bread. *That's another trick to getting away from commercial breads. *

I've developed my own recipes using some rather unusual ingredients. *My breads are just as good and soft on day 6 as they were on day one. *A one-pound loaf of bread lasts us for 1 week. *I add chia seed goop (chia seeds and water) to most of the breads I make. *This addition keeps the crumb of the bread moist. *By day 2 of most traditional loaves of enriched homemade bread, most of the moisture wicks from the crumb to the crust and through evaporation and everyone refuses to have a peanut butter sandwich made with it..... *Using chia seeds is one of my secret ingredients for longer-lasting and softer homemade bread.

If you have a family who gobbles down a loaf of bread fresh from the oven in one setting, they will certainly need to be retrained. *That's a costly habit to indulge in. *We use one 1-pound loaf of bread a week (2 adults). *There are other bread items in the freezer in 1 or 2 serving sizes. *Restocking the freezer is an on-going processes.

My usual recipe makes over 2 pounds 8 ounces of dough. *I can make a one-pound pullman pan, 6 large pecan rolls, and 2-4 hot dog buns with that amount. *Or, instead of the pecan rolls, I'll make 6 hamburger buns. *Or, a loaf of bread and 9 dinner rolls in an 8-inch square pan. *Hamburger and hot dog buns are wrapped in foil sheets I get at Sam's club (in a pop-up box) and kept in the freezer. *When we need two buns, they are ready-to-thaw and use. *Breads like Dill Bread, Rye, Bulgur, etc., are also sliced and placed in 2-slice packages. *These are usually used for grilled sandwiches, rather than used for everyday use.

I store grains in airtight containers and vacuum-sealed containers and bags using a FoodSaver. *I can also vacuum-seal canning jars with the FoodSaver, so I keep a lot of 1/2-gallon and quart jars filled with a variety of things. * * *

There are also things you can make with whole grains without a mill to make flour, and I'd be happy to share information and recipes about those if you are interrested.

-Karen * *

[humbug]

Karen

I wanted to say thanks for all the wisdom and help for all of us that are new to whole grain use. I enjoy your posts and all the wonderful information.

[bee_pipes]

...When I teach classes on the subject...

...There are plenty of tips, tricks and science to making bread. I've studied the science and the ingredients for years - it's been a great hobby and I'm learning stuff all the time...

...If you have a family who gobbles down a loaf of bread fresh from the oven in one setting, they will certainly need to be retrained. That's a costly habit to indulge in...

...be happy to share information and recipes about those if you are interrested.


I thought so - there's just too much information on your posts to be a casual dabbler. I have seen your responses a few times and you always accompany them with a volume of information.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/yabb/forum2.pl?board=foo-other-food;action=display;num=1205331449;2#2
http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/yabb/forum2.pl?board=foo-recipes;action=display;num=1196437766;6#6

We have managed to replace sandwich bread with homemade bread. My eating habits are pretty simple, and sandwich bread serves a lot of purposes. As often as needed, I make bread with a recipe that results in 3-4 loaves. One goes into the fridge, with the remainder going into the freezer until needed. Right now bread making is an all day affair. It starts in the morning with making the dough - using a kitchenaid mixer and dough hook. Our kitchen is kind of cool - the dough doesn't seem to rise that fast - usually 2-3 hours or more. By the time the dough has risen, been punched down and flipped, kneaded and put into bread pans, risen again, top slit and risen again, the baked bread usually comes out of the oven after dinner. Lately I have been speeding up the last step or two using a warmed oven with a pan of water. It's not a bad day - we do other things while the yeast is working. My wife is not big on bread - she will occasionally have a sandwich or eat bread, but she tends to stay away from it on principal - a carb thing, I think. I have gotten to the point where two big slabs for toast in the morning, with a glass of juice, get's me going in the morning and keeps me well until lunch - usually a sandwich and chips.

There are occasions where it would be nice to have other baked goods - hamburger and hotdog buns, french bread for garlic butter, etc.

Would it be possible to go through your day, week and month? Like you said, time is a factor, though we don't have to juggle jobs anymore. What sort of time do you spend in a day preparing staples? Grinding, baking, etc. How many days a week? How many days a month for stuff that isn't done weekly? How do you plan your consumption for the week, month, etc.? I guess I'm sort of simple-minded, I need to make a simple schedule and stick to it or else I'll wind up running out or with more bread than I can freeze.

I can see your point about sitting down and eating a loaf, just because it is fresh from the oven. That makes no more sense than breakfast cereal, where kids will tear through a box in one sitting.

What are pullmans?

Thanks again for all the info!

Regards,
Pat

[Shamrock1121]

These are some books, web sites and recipes to help you get educated and started.... Check your local library for books on the subject of whole grains or have them get them through Inter-Library Loan.

-Karen

1. Kansas Wheat Commission - http://www.kswheat.com/index.asp

Their recipes: http://www.kswheat.com/general.asp?id=171

Our favorite: Whole Wheat Sugar Cookies http://kansaswheat.org/general.asp?id=470

2. Milling, Grains, Baking Tips
http://www.aaoobfoods.com/breadmakingtips.htm

3. Flour Power - by Marleeta F. Basey
The complete guide to 3-minute home flour milling.

4. The Splendid Grain - by Rebecca Wood
A favorite recipe:

Oat Groat Pancakes - makes about 15

2/3 c. oat groats (the whole grain/seed)
1/3 c. buckwheat groats, toasted
1-1/4 c. milk or soy milk (I use a whey-based milk substitute and some homemade kefir)
3 large eggs
2 T. unsalted butter, melted
1/4 t sea salt
2 T. Sucanat or light brown sugar
1 t. baking powder
1/2 t. grated nutmeg

Combine the oats, buckwheat, and milk (milk/kefir) in a blender container. Cover and let soak refrigerated overnight or for 8 hours. [The next morning] Blend until smooth. Add the remaining ingredients and process to combine. Preheat a griddle. Drop the batter by the ladleful onto the griddle and bake for about 2 minutes on each side, or until golden. Serve hot with the usual pancake accompaniments.

Note: this can be used with almost any whole grain - rye, spelt, kamut, etc....

5. All-American WAVES OF GRAIN - by Barbara Grunes and Virginia Van Vynckt

How to buy, store, and cook every imaginable grain.

6. The Amazing Wheat Book - by LeArta Moulton

7. The Versatile Grain and the Elegant Bean - by Sheryl and Mel London

8. The Magic of Chia by James F. Scheer

9. All of Sue Gregg's books and information -
http://www.suegregg.com/

Recipes: http://www.suegregg.com/teaching/WholeFoodsCookingLessons.htm

[Shamrock1121]

Pat -

It sounds like you are on your way and have a lot of experience under your belt. To speed things along, I think you would LOVE the Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day method. It takes about 5 minutes to mix up (you can give your Kitchen Aid a rest). Allow it to rise for 2-3 hours - use immediately or stick it in the refrigerator and use it when you need or want to make bread. You can pan it or free-form (for French bread for garlic bread). Some of the recipes will keep in the refrigerator for up to 2 weeks. The perfect bread dough for busy people.

1. The fastest I can make a loaf of bread (start to finish) is 2-1/2 to 3 hours. If I start at 8 a.m., I'm done at 11 a.m. My 100% whole wheat bread recipe requires a 2-1/2 hour sponge (whole wheat flour, kefir (or buttermilk), water, ascorbic acid and yeast). A 12-hour sponge will also work, so you would make the bread in 2 stages. An overnight sponge only requires mixing the ingredients together, and finish the dough the next morning. Using a sponge (method) is also a key to making light loaves of 100% whole wheat bread.

2. I use a dough rising bucket (aka dough doubler) for the first fermentation. These are the perfect environment for dough. I place the dough rising bucket in my oven with the light on (NO preheating - you can actually have the oven hot enough to kill the surface yeast on the dough by using the pre-heating method - most people don't check the temperature...) and it's a near perfect rising temperature 80°-85°F. Just turn the light on in the oven when you get started and it will be warm by the time the dough is ready to rise.

There's nothing wrong with a long, slow, cool rise - you develop a lot of flavor that way. It just takes longer and you don't always HAVE longer.... ;) I also keep a cool kitchen - in the winter it's 62°-65°F.

Sourdough breads also take all -- day -- long. I often speed things up a bit by adding 1/8 t. SAF-Instant yeast to the recipe to kick it up a bit.

Another benefit to the dough rising bucket, you can quickly and precisely tell when the dough has doubled. When you pat the dough into the bucket, note where it is on the graduated scale on the side of the bucket. Let's say it's 2 quarts. When it's up to 4 quarts, it's doubled.

Dough Rising Bucket: http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/dough-rising-bucket

You can also get these plastic tubs with the tight-fitting lid from restaurant supply stores. You put the lid on tight while the dough doubles.

3. Cutting carbs... it's better to know the glycemic impact of foods than just to watch carbs.

a. Add fiber - things like multi-grain cereal (you can find it at most health food stores as 5-grain, 7-grain, 11-grain cereal - looks like chopped grain and is used as a cooked cereal). I usually add 2/3-3/4 c. to most bread recipes and add it during the last of the kneading. If you add it early the sharp edges of this cereal will cut the gluten strands in the dough and you'll end up with a smaller loaf. Chia seeds add a great deal of fiber and nutrition. I always add 3-4 T. flaxmeal to all my breads as well.

b. Use high-protein ingredients to off-set the glycemic impact of the wheat/flour. Dairy and eggs. Additions of bean flour also adds protein (use only small white beans - less "beany" flavor.

c. Use spelt or kamut flour instead of wheat. Spelt and Kamut are ancient forms of wheat. Because they are not a hybridized form like wheat is, they have a lower glycemic impact than wheat. I use a LOT of spelt, and there's enough gluten in spelt to make yeast breads. They will be smaller loaves because the gluten in spelt is more delicate than wheat. You don't have to knead spelt bread as long as you do wheat bread to develop the gluten.

d. Make the loaves small and cut them into very thin slices. Small loaf pans that are 5-3/4 x 3-3/4 - inches will hold 8 ounces of dough and 7-1/2 x 3-1/2 - inches will hold up to 1-pound of dough - I often make loaves in these pans using 12-14 oz. of dough (I scale - weigh - dough for panned loaves to make sure I have the correct amount for the size of pan I use). The slices from a small loaf will stay together after they are sliced (they tend to fall apart from a large loaf), and they will have the "appearance" of being a full slice of bread. There are many low-carb bread recipes available. I use a lot of coconut flour for the ultimate low-carb baked goods.

e. Make sourdough recipes. They are lower in carbs.

4. Pullman Pans (aka Pain de Mie) are pans that are designed for sandwich bread which has a close crumb and no domed crust like a traditional loaf of bread. The kind of bread kids like to use for a PB&J sandwich. I have two of these pans - a 1-pound and a 2-pound size.

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/detail.jsp?id=5712

5. I usually bake yeast or sourdough breads once a week. I usually start early in the morning (I get up at 5 a.m. everyday - ain't it great!). It takes 3-5 minutes to mill flour. A couple more minutes for each kind of additional beans/seeds/grains. I tuck these in the refrigerator until I need them if I'm not going to use them immediately. I often mill flour while I make breakfast.

I bake muffins and scones for breakfast. Extras get put in the freezer. We get several meals out of a pan of cornbread. It's also portioned into two pieces and placed in pop-sheets of foil I get at Sam's Club. There's always dinner rolls in serving size amounts in the freezer too. But there's only two of us to feed....so small amounts go a long way.

- One week I might make 3 small loaves of 100% whole wheat bread. That takes care of three weeks of bread.

- The next week I might make the same recipe and will make 12 hamburger buns, 6 hot dog buns (or more if needed). It also depends on how large I make the burger buns. Small ones are about 2 to 2.5 oz. (dough) each, and big ones might be as much as 3-4 oz. (depends on who I'm trying to impress and what's being served on them). Hot dog buns are about 2-3 oz. each - or roll the dough approx. the size of the hot dog you normally use. There's little tips and tricks to making these, but they are easy to do. This amount will last us for 2 months.

- Another week I might make a type of bread that gets portioned and stored in the freezer. I do this about once a month. Dill bread, rye, bulgur, or other speciality breads. I also make English Muffins about 2-4 times a year. The recipe I use makes a BUNCH, but they freeze well.

- From experience, I know how much dough it takes to make a variety of things from one recipe of dough. That way I can make a loaf of bread and several other things all from the same dough.

-Karen

[Shamrock1121]

Karen

I wanted to say thanks for all the wisdom and help for all of us that are new to whole grain use. I enjoy your posts and all the wonderful information.

Why, thanks so much for the kind words. I'm always glad to share. :D

-Karen

[Deberosa]

Yes, thank you Karen! Now that you explain the chemistry behind bread it makes so much more sense!

You are right about time, but I am thinking I need to make time. The good part is I can start in the morning and let batches rise during the day as needed since I work out of the home now.

Seems like the best place to start would be to buy already milled flours and experiment until I get a set of recipes that work for me?

I do have a bread machine - it was great when I lived alone - would do up a loaf of bread good enough to last me for dinner and lunch the next day in only 45 minutes! However it needs special bread flour supposedly. Maybe I need to test that theory too. But now with Kurt here he scarfs a loaf that size before it gets to the table! ;-)

I printed out the one link so far that talks about substitutions possible - good to know eggs are a good substitute for some of the liquid.

Thanks again so much for this information! I will be pouring through more of it as I get a chance. Hopefully by next fall I will be independent of commercial baked goods.

Debbie

[taynormom]

I just got so excited about his thread.
I remember my dad making homemade wild rice bread.
I have been looking for ways to make my own and do my own grain too. No more grocery store stale bread
Learning alot here
taynormom :D

[mom]

Next question - Cia seed goop - how much seed, how much water and how much to the bread mix