Hostility over homeschooling

[rhart]

I'm new to this forum and also new to homeschooling.
I just wondered if any of you homeschooling parents have had any friends respond with hostility over your decision to homeschool.
My wife and I knew that a lot of people would have negative attitudes toward homeschooling, but we were shocked by one of my wife's best friends response.She was actually angry that we were homeschooling our two children.She gave all the usual arguments against homeschooling,and my wife told her that they would have to agree to disagree.Her friend got even madder and hung up on my wife.
I can't believe someone would be so upset over something that doesn't even concern them.

[fnfredux]

I'm new to this forum and also new to homeschooling.
I just wondered if any of you homeschooling parents have had any friends respond with hostility over your decision to homeschool.
*My wife and I knew that a lot of people would have negative attitudes toward homeschooling, but we were shocked by one of my wife's best friends response.She was actually angry that we were homeschooling our two children.She gave all the usual arguments against homeschooling,and my wife told her that they would have to agree to disagree.Her friend got even madder and hung up on my wife.
*I can't believe someone would be so upset over something that doesn't even concern them.

I guess she wasn't much of friend if she doesn't respect your wife's and your right to educate and raise your kids as YOU (both) see fit.

[CarolAnn]

Hmmmm.... Maybe that lady is afraid your kids will do a lot better out of it than hers will in public school. My neice has home schooled all six of her kids - and they tend to graduate early (the two oldest have, so far) - and jump right into honors college courses while their "peers" are still dragging through the local high school. They also have music, art, karate classes, and other sports with other home schooled kids.

However, they are "missing" bullying and being bullied, cliques, teachers that are dealing with too many kids - and the boredom, fear, and sometimes outright physical danger that can be found in some public schools. ::)

[rivahmom]

I agree with CarolAnn. She may resent the fact that she cannot homeschool or she may view it as a personal attack. Homeschooling because you feel it is best for your child may make her believe you think her a bad parent because she does not.

[farmmilkmama]

I know a few people who took our decision to homeschool as a personal attack...as in, OBVIOUSLY if I homeschool my kids and you don't, I think you're a terrible parents. (Um, no. And I would go so far as to say I don't think that the majority of people who homeschool feel that people with kids in public school are bad parents.)

There are lots of people out there who obviously think that its their job to assert their opinion on what you choose to do with your family, regardless of whether it concerns them or not. Homeschooling is a particularly touchy subject in this area. Its a bummer that more people just can't do what works for them, realize it doesn't work for everyone, and leave well enough alone. You know, agree to disagree? ;)

[Junie]

I got the same reaction from our judge executive, so I spent about an hour explaining why I homeschool and its advantages, answering his questions along the way. There was a lady standing nearby while I was talking.

As I left, she said, "Thank you for being so calm and expaining our position. I homeschool, too, but can never satisfactorily explain it to other people".

[momma_to_seven_chi]

I realize this is an older thread, but I just happened upon it.

Sometimes you just have to ignore other people. *When all is said and done, you are responsible to God, your spouse and the care of your children. *It doesn't matter if anyone is angry or not. *And it doesn't even have to be explained to them. *If they are truly interested and looking for helpful information then give it to them. *If not, then cut off the coversation and let it go. *

We have four children, all were homeschooled. *Three went to college, one will go this fall. She finished her homeschooling program early, but won't go to college until next semester. We met with nasty people, supportive people, snoopy people, etc. *

After a couple of years you develop a callous when it comes to people who don't deserve your time. It won't even bother you anymore. *Really. *You just ignore them and go on with your own program for your children's education. And it turns out ok. I have successful adult children who own homes, have jobs, have families, and socialize just fine in the adult world.

Don't let other people's remarks worry you. When all is said and done, it really doesn't matter what they think of you.

---------------------------------------------------
Sorry about all those asterisks that show up. I didn't put them there. I tried to edit them out, but they don't show up on the edit form. Sorry.

[Steve_L]

Yeah. My sister in law became angry when she learned I was going to home-school my son. People get angry over all kinds of things. Make every effort to understand their position, but if they're not logical, don't cave in just because they are holding your friendship hostage. IF that is how they treat your friendship, it is far too one sided a friendship.

It is best to realize that you can't make everyone happy, and don't try and appease them; just do what you think is right.

[Teg]

One of my Uncles and his wife homeschooled their daughter until she asked to attend regular school around the 6th grade to be with her friends, very smart little girl and far ahead of the other children in her class. As to why some folks get so upset, I think it's just a fear of what they don't know mostly, but then again some folks are just jerks, so I guess you have to divine which one you are dealing with. :)

[Steve_L]

There are a few things you can tell people who are hostile to homeschooling besides the obvious "it's none of your darn business!!". You can point out that home school children are better educated than public school children.

As you can see from the chart, the average 9th grade home schooled child has a grade equivalent of a public school high school graduate.

You can also point out that they are better socialized.

[reyecat]

most people feel threatened by this type of display of independance...

and they feel judged by the decision to homeschool... hence the defensive reaction.

Sorry about your wife's friend.

We went through a lot with our family when we decided to homeschool.

[MotherCharlotte]

I agree with Reyecat that in general, people feel threatened by independent actions, of any type. They feel threatened to see someone else actually thinking for themselves, and going against the grain, because it gives them an uncomfortable feeling that maybe they are just following the crowd in all things.

Congratulations on your decision. Personally, I love homeschooling and have never regretted my decision to do so for even a second. Not so much for the academic progress my kids are making (although that is considerable) but for the family togetherness it brings.

[Laura]

Fear and Pride

It is amazing how someone will ASK questions about home education (you don't start this conversation) and the ATTACK when you don't change your mind to their mind......

Last night, I was at work, scheduling my son's Grammar / Comp when one of the girls asked why I was doing his work? I told her I was scheduling his school year. Another girl, who is a public school teacher, just went on and on and on and on.......socialization, and what is your son reading for literature, and on and on.

I told her we are NOT reading 'literature' because for us, it's a waste of brain space. He's not going to grow up and be a writer or Alex Trebeque on Jeporday so we don't waste our time on things we will not use.

I didn't waste my time and breath on the REAL why's we home school.....
Just like I don't waste my breath explaining my pro-life stance.
And I don't waste my breath on a fanatical liberal.

Lifes too short to waste time and breath on someone who's mind is made up, who is rude and assuming, and who is OBVIOUSLY an know it all. Nothing I say will be of any contribution.....they already know it all!!

My 3 teens behavior and grace speaks loud enough for me.
Besides, we home educate for the Glory of God.....I really don't give a rats patooty what any human thinks!!

[Roots_Farm]

Here's the deal. Some people have fallen into the "public education is best because the teachers are qualified" trap. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of good educators in the public system but just because the meet the standards set by the state doesn't necessarily mean the meet your standards. It is a choice that each family must make for themselves. We do not home school because I feel we do not have what it takes to give them everything they need for their education. We do however talk with the teachers and the schools and will not have them with a teacher we do not fell is right for our children's education. The schools have accommodated this and though I may have hurt some feelings I have to take my children's needs over a teachers ego.
When our kids get home we supplement their education. No parent should blindly rely on anyone teaching their child. If your friend thinks that it isn't their job to provide at least some education or at a minimum review what they are learning then she is doing them a great injustice.

My daughter had a poem published when she was 12. It was through the school and the topic was about drinking and driving and the school was fine with it. She wrote another one about abortion and the school freaked out. She couldn't have something so controversial at school but we supported her choice of topic at home and she submitted it on her own. We taught our children our values and that is something that you will never get from a public school.

[Oblio13]

At least around here, "home schooling" seems to be a code phrase for "religious zealots keeping kids ignorant". Right or wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason for your friend's negative reaction.

[Laura]

At least around here, "home schooling" seems to be a code phrase for "religious zealots keeping kids ignorant".

I think those who do not educate themselves on what 'home education' is....they are the 'ignorant ones'.They no nothing about which they speak, yet feel entitled to label......

SIDE NOTE:
Just read an article about a "home schooled" girl who's parents let her 'go goth' and listen to 'horrorap'.....who was murdered by some freak that was into the same thing as she was ALLOWED to get into......
Yeah professional parents, separated, and were afraid to squash her individuality.....
When you read the whole article you see her parents were idiots....
And the 'just happen to home school'.

Upon further investigation, no public or private school wanted her because of her behavior.....
Hmmmm

Statistically, home educated kids that are educated, at home, test higher than public and private schooled kids, and colleges LOVE them.....because they are already self-disciplined enough to do the work, and not preoccupied with what the "crowd" is doing.....

[Steve_L]

I suspect "public school" parents are just upset because they don't care enough about their children to home school them, that can't stand being around their own children, and are quite happy to ship them off so they are other people's problem.

They just hate homeschoolers because they show them up as better parents and the homeschooled children make the public school children look ignorant.

:-)

[Roots_Farm]

I suspect "public school" parents are just upset because they don't care enough about their children to home school them, that can't stand being around their own children, and are quite happy to ship them off so they are other people's problem.

They just hate homeschoolers because they show them up as better parents and the homeschooled children make the public school children look ignorant.

:-)

So I do not care for my children? I can't stand to be around my children? I send them away so they become someone else's problem?

I'm assuming your comment is in reference to someone that berates people that home school and isn't a blanket statement for all parents that send their kids to public schools.

[Mom5farmboys]

I suspect "public school" parents are just upset because they don't care enough about their children to home school them, that can't stand being around their own children, and are quite happy to ship them off so they are other people's problem.

They just hate homeschoolers because they show them up as better parents and the homeschooled children make the public school children look ignorant.

:-)

I am a public school parent. I don't hate or "look down on" homeschooling families. I have relatives that homeschool and even considered doing it myself. I made a choice to send my kids to public school, but I found one I that I am extremely happy with (I pulled my kids out of our home district and drive them to a neighboring one).

I am not threatened by people who choose to educate their children themselves. I have a lot of respect for them, however it just didn't feel right for my family. I love my children every bit as much as any other family out there, and I enjoy them. They are good kids. When you make blanket statements about "public school families" its no better than making them about homeschooling ones.

[Pokeberry Mary]

I homeschooled my 4 kids but I have NO animosity whatsoever toward any parent who choses school.

I believe parents almost always are doing the best they can choosing what they believe is best of the kids not trying to get rid of them or keep them ignorant.

I think there are folks in both boats doing a great job and folks in both boats that aren't.

Hopefully more are.

[momma_to_seven_chi]

Many homeschoolers actually feel sorry for children whose parents send them to public school. I think when we spend so much time with other homeschoolers, we end up seeing the "best" plus hearing all the horror stories of public schools. Just like public school parents sometimes feel that homeschoolers are wrong, homeschoolers feel that public school parents are wrong. It's just a point of view brought on by spending so much time with people just like ourselves. And added to that, many homeschoolers have and personal experiences with public schools that are not good. That is why they started homeschooling. So often times we really do feel sorry for the kids stuck in a public school situation because we have seen and heard the horrible parts of it.

Personally, I wouldn't have sent my dog to a public school let alone my child. And because I homeschooled for so many years, I had many, many public school parents coming to me asking questions, and telling me about the horrible experience(s) their child was having. I heard the worst of PS, and saw the best of homeschooling. That colors my opinion. I'm sure others are the same way in some respects. It's nothing personal against you public school parents, it's just that our opinions are often filtered through our own experiences.

[Steve_L]

I really don't care what other people do with their children, it is not any of my business and I wouldn't presume to dictate to them how they care, or don't care, for their children.

What I'm saying is that when you get hostility because you're homeschooling, show some hostility back. The best defense is a good offense. They'll engage you for hours if you're going to be nice about it, but when they stick their busy body noses into your private life, stick yours into their's and see how they like it. They tend to back off more quickly.

IF they don't have children, hit 'em with that. My childless sister in law tore into me for homeschooling. Well, she can do what she wants with her OWN children. I'm responsible for mine.

If they send their children to public school, guilt them with the "don't you care about your children enough to have them around all the time?"

IF they say your children aren't being educated, hit them with the FACT that homeschooled children are a couple grade levels ahead of public school children.

If they hit you with the 'socialization" argument, remind that that socialization means teen age pregnancy, disobedience to parents, socialist indoctrination, drugs, and school violence. Yeah, home schooled children tend to act like ADULTS because they're exposed to older people more often.

Send the anti-homeschoolers away with something to think about, not with the feeling that they can pick on you at will. There is no reason to take that kind of abuse. Question what they're doing right back at them.

Remember, the subject here is what to do when faced with anti-homeschool HOSTILITY. The presumption, then, is that they are not being rational. Reason doesn't work on irrational people.

[Roots_Farm]

Actually the original poster asked if any of you homeschooling parents have had any friends respond with hostility over your decision to home school. It had nothing to do with how to go to the same level as those badmouthing you. My kids do go to public school and receive a good education that the wife and I supplement at home. We monitor what is taught and challenge their teachers. I see all the work that they do and on more than one occasion I have pointed out errors in some of their course work. I may be wrong but by the sound of your earlier post you have had some bad experiences from pro public school parents and are now defensive against anyone who does not home school.

There is always good and bad. I'm sure there are home school parents that are doing their children a disservice but as I tend to stay out of the lives of other people I couldn't tell you who or how many. I do know that everyone with a child or a grandchild should play an active role in their education even when in a public school setting.

[momma_to_seven_chi]

What I'm saying is that when you get hostility because you're homeschooling, show some hostility back. The best defense is a good offense. They'll engage you for hours if you're going to be nice about it, but when they stick their busy body noses into your private life, stick yours into their's and see how they like it.

Personally, I never felt it was worth my time to argue with them. They don't deserve the attention or energy. If someone had a valid question, fine. If they were just nasty, I'd walk away. My time and peace is worth more than their nastiness. I had a bunch of kids and animals that were more valuable then wasting time messing with them. Let them whine to themselves. It develops their lungs.
The same for family. Nasty family members were just ignored. I had better things to do than let them upset me.

[nhlivefreeordie]

Personally, I never felt it was worth my time to argue with them. They don't deserve the attention or energy. If someone had a valid question, fine. If they were just nasty, I'd walk away. My time and peace is worth more than their nastiness. I had a bunch of kids and animals that were more valuable then wasting time messing with them. Let them whine to themselves. It develops their lungs.
The same for family. Nasty family members were just ignored. I had better things to do than let them upset me.

Are you sure we weren't separated at birth??...:D....that is exactly how I feel.

[momma_to_seven_chi]

Are you sure we weren't separated at birth??...:D....that is exactly how I feel.

I think that attitude develops over time. And nasty mother-in-laws cause it to develop faster. LOL

[Laura]

The first time I was "Called" to homeschool, my kids were in 1rst and 2nd grade (baby not in school yet).
I went to the library to check out a book on the topic (that's what I do when I want to learn more.....)

There were 3 books.......seems like they were written in 1938.....they were old and weird.

So then, I made the fatal error of talking to "friends and family" about this.
OF COURSE they told me I would ruin the children, they would be socially retarted, they would have no friends, I didn't have an education so I would be doing them a disservice......

(MIL also was the one who told me when I was pregnant with my son, I was being "unfair" to my daughter having the children so close together (14 months apart) and her and I would never have a good relationship)

Well....stupid me I listened. I didn't know.
I was not a Believer, I didn't have any information at the library to check out, I didn't know anyone who home schooled!

At the beginning of the 6th, 5th and 3rd grade year, things were different. I was a Believer, I knew a homeschooler, and she shared all kinds of information with me!!! The kids and I prayed every day as I dropped them off that year.
At the end of the year we waved "by by" to the building.
The only time they return to it? To take their ACT's and SAT's.

Had a gal last night at the bar where I work, ask me questions about home schooling......at one point she said "I know nothing, so forgive me if I ask a stupid question". I told her the only stupid question is the one she didn't ask.

She said "how does your son plan on getting into a normal school (college)". Then she covers her mouth and says I am so sorry......

I told her.....No apology needed!! I explained it to her and she was satisfied.

I was not 'offended' by her. They were innocent questions asked by someone who is ignorant of the topic!!
But for someone who is "hostile" towards the subject......I DON'T stop talking, I just don't acknowledge their hostility!!
Makes them look a little silly for getting so worked up.

[nhlivefreeordie]

When I worked for Fedex as a courier, I had a very rural section of NH, along the Maine border, and had several regular deliveries to homeschooling homes. Over the years I got pretty friendly with the parents and the kids. During this time I was also coaching football in our town and dealing with the run of the mill public school lids.
I can tell you that the home schooled kids were far and away, better behaved, more polite, and vastly more advanced than their counterparts in the government school system. By that time my own kids were in middle and high school, too late for them, but if I had it to do all over again, I would have found a way to home school. I am planning on being there to help home school my grand kids once we get moved back to NH. Their parents are on board as are the grand parents on the other side, between all of us, I bet we can do a far superior job to the government school.

[cinok]

Many homeschoolers actually feel sorry for children whose parents send them to public school. I think when we spend so much time with other homeschoolers, we end up seeing the "best" plus hearing all the horror stories of public schools. Just like public school parents sometimes feel that homeschoolers are wrong, homeschoolers feel that public school parents are wrong. It's just a point of view brought on by spending so much time with people just like ourselves. And added to that, many homeschoolers have and personal experiences with public schools that are not good. That is why they started homeschooling. So often times we really do feel sorry for the kids stuck in a public school situation because we have seen and heard the horrible parts of it.

Personally, I wouldn't have sent my dog to a public school let alone my child. And because I homeschooled for so many years, I had many, many public school parents coming to me asking questions, and telling me about the horrible experience(s) their child was having. I heard the worst of PS, and saw the best of homeschooling. That colors my opinion. I'm sure others are the same way in some respects. It's nothing personal against you public school parents, it's just that our opinions are often filtered through our own experiences.

My boys both go to public school in a small community, the school is Pre-k through 8th with about 285 students. We investigated the school before we moved to this area. They are well rounded, well behaved, polite and well mannered. But they are boys and will be boys.
We help them if they have questions and supplement their education with skills from home.
We know some people who home school and I have to say its about 50/50 mix, some are very well educated about thier grade level and others are home schooled because they where discipline problem at school or the parents didn't agree that the child need some "special ed" this group is the ones that suffer.
Is homeschooling a bad thing or better then public school, I think alot of that has to do with the area you live in and your personal lifestyle. Does the child suffer that is up to the parent's. Some states are regulated and they require testing yearly or on a set schedule and other have no requirements, by the way my state of OK is one of the easiest states to home school in.

[PaulNKS]

I may not be a parent but from "outside observation" I think the quality of education boils down to how much reinforcement the kids get from home.

For example, my youngest brother sent his three kids to public school. All three graduated as valedictorians in their respective classes. His youngest was also taking college courses while a senior in high school. When she started college at A & M University (Texas) this year, she entered as a sophomore, not a freshman.

The difference was how much their parents worked with them. I'll never forget, but the oldest boy could list all the Russian "rulers" since the late 1800's, before he started kindegarten. All three children were reading at least a full year before their peers.

It all boils down to what goes on at home.

Paul

[Roots_Farm]

I'll never forget, but the oldest boy could list all the Russian "rulers" since the late 1800's, before he started kindegarten. Paul

The way we are going that might come in handy:D

[mtwildflower]

I may not be a parent but from "outside observation" I think the quality of education boils down to how much reinforcement the kids get from home.

For example, my youngest brother sent his three kids to public school. All three graduated as valedictorians in their respective classes. His youngest was also taking college courses while a senior in high school. When she started college at A & M University (Texas) this year, she entered as a sophomore, not a freshman.

The difference was how much their parents worked with them. I'll never forget, but the oldest boy could list all the Russian "rulers" since the late 1800's, before he started kindegarten. All three children were reading at least a full year before their peers.

It all boils down to what goes on at home.

Paul

And that's exactly right.

I considered homeschooling my kids before the oldest got into 1st grade ( in 1993 or so) I ultimately decided not to and it was a relief. My (then) husband was all for it, however, I knew that to do it well and to see to it the kids were well rounded and educated, that I would have to have his help....and I wouldn't get it. It would have to be a lifesyle change that he would not be willing to make. Fine to give lip service too, something entirely different to put into action.

So, instead, I determined I was not sending them to schools that I felt were dangerous or substandard or inadequate. I drove to a neighboring district that had no hot lunch program or transportation, but good teachers. It was worth it. Then when we moved, my husband tried really hard to get me to move to one of the biggest cities in the state so it would be more conveinent and cheaper for him to get to work. I wouldn't have it. I told him he could commute or he could find his own place, I wasn't living there and putting my kids in those schools. Turned out we moved close to the community I grew up in and we enrolled our kids at a country school where my mom happened to be the clerk and saw her grandkids a couple times a week while working there. That was great too and well worth it.

I have lots of respect for homeschooling families and support them as much as I can. The majority are well educated themselves and take an active part in the child(ren)'s education. I do know a couple of families, however, who did their children a great disservice by NOT educating them and as a result, they are probably some of the stupidest and laziest young people I know. It's too bad, we as taxpayers will probably be supporting them most of their lives.

[Travis]

My kids all go to public school, I do not know any kids that are home schooled with that said I will say home schooling versus public schooling is a wash. I mean you can send your child to a great or poor public school, just like you may or may not be a great teacher when you home school.

[chrisser]

Anyone who has been to college know where Education majors rank on the hierarchy of intelligence, capability, standardized test scores, etc.

Yes, there are exceptions, but "Those who can do, do. Those who can't do, teach" and I would add "Those who can do neither, major in Education".

[momma_to_seven_chi]

Anyone who has been to college know where Education majors rank on the hierarchy of intelligence, capability, standardized test scores, etc.

Yes, there are exceptions, but "Those who can do, do. Those who can't do, teach" and I would add "Those who can do neither, major in Education".

Did you realize that the largest statistical profession among homeschoolers is teaching? More "teachers" teach their own children at home than any other profession that chooses to homeschool.

[chrisser]

Did you realize that the largest statistical profession among homeschoolers is teaching? More "teachers" teach their own children at home than any other profession that chooses to homeschool.

Do you have a source for that statistic?

I googled quite extensively and found nothing.

[MelleeRN]

Anyone who has been to college know where Education majors rank on the hierarchy of intelligence, capability, standardized test scores, etc.

Yes, there are exceptions, but "Those who can do, do. Those who can't do, teach" and I would add "Those who can do neither, major in Education".

I can and I do, yet at the same time I teach others. When I question myself or find the very few bad apples of a teacher out there I always remember.
1. who taught me to read, write, math, and many other subjects.... was teachers
the fact that we are posting on here is proof that a teacher taught us something, no matter how some perceive their rank on the hierarchy of intelligence, capability, standardized test scores, etc.

Do you have a source for that statistic?

I googled quite extensively and found nothing.

Sometimes going outside of the box and utilizing research databases will yield what you are looking for. Below is a great research link in regards to home schoolers.
http://www.edweek.org/rc/issues/home-schooling/

I do not need to home school my children because of the school that they have. All great teachers.

[chrisser]

I can and I do, yet at the same time I teach others. When I question myself or find the very few bad apples of a teacher out there I always remember.
1. who taught me to read, write, math, and many other subjects.... was teachers
the fact that we are posting on here is proof that a teacher taught us something, no matter how some perceive their rank on the hierarchy of intelligence, capability, standardized test scores, etc.


I chose my words quite carefully.

I did not comment on the relative intelligence, capability, etc of teachers. My comment was on that of education majors.

There is a difference and it is an important one - there are plenty of people in both groups who are not members of the other.

My experience has been that the best teachers are not the "pure" education majors - i.e. those who went to college, majored in education, got out, and then maybe started teaching - but those who did something, anything, else that gave them some experience in life, the work force, or another profession besides teaching. The latter are, in my experience, the great teachers of the world. When I think back on my great teachers - they were all something else, and then got their teaching credentials, but YMMV.


Sometimes going outside of the box and utilizing research databases will yield what you are looking for. Below is a great research link in regards to home schoolers.
http://www.edweek.org/rc/issues/home-schooling/

I'm grateful for the link, but it doesn't comment specifically on the professions of homeschooling parents, nor does it easily show a link to the same. Frankly, I didn't make the claim that their were actual statistics so it hardly makes sense for me to spend my time digging around to substantiate it. I would certainly be interested to see how someone teaching full time can fit in a full day of homeschooling of their children after work, and what the children are doing during the schoolday when the teacher homeschooling parent is at the local school teaching.

To be honest, I don't know that I would trust Education Week to provide an unbiased analysis of homeschooling pro, con or neutral.

I do not need to home school my children because of the school that they have. All great teachers.

I'm truly happy for you. Just curious though - how do you know they're great teachers? Is there some objective measure you are using to guage both their capability and their effectiveness? I don't mean demean your opinion - I'm quite honestly curious how you know.

[nhlivefreeordie]

I chose my words quite carefully.

I did not comment on the relative intelligence, capability, etc of teachers. My comment was on that of education majors.

There is a difference and it is an important one - there are plenty of people in both groups who are not members of the other.

My experience has been that the best teachers are not the "pure" education majors - i.e. those who went to college, majored in education, got out, and then maybe started teaching - but those who did something, anything, else that gave them some experience in life, the work force, or another profession besides teaching. The latter are, in my experience, the great teachers of the world. When I think back on my great teachers - they were all something else, and then got their teaching credentials, but YMMV.



I'm grateful for the link, but it doesn't comment specifically on the professions of homeschooling parents, nor does it easily show a link to the same. Frankly, I didn't make the claim that their were actual statistics so it hardly makes sense for me to spend my time digging around to substantiate it. I would certainly be interested to see how someone teaching full time can fit in a full day of homeschooling of their children after work, and what the children are doing during the schoolday when the teacher homeschooling parent is at the local school teaching.

To be honest, I don't know that I would trust Education Week to provide an unbiased analysis of homeschooling pro, con or neutral.



I'm truly happy for you. Just curious though - how do you know they're great teachers? Is there some objective measure you are using to guage both their capability and their effectiveness? I don't mean demean your opinion - I'm quite honestly curious how you know.

Very thoughtful post, and spot on in your assessment I think, I too will be interested in the outcome of your last paragraph....:dirol:

[momma_to_seven_chi]

Do you have a source for that statistic?

I googled quite extensively and found nothing.

No, I'm sorry, I don't have a link. It is one of the statistics quoted at HS conventions so often from NHERI statistics. I've heard it often.

[chrisser]

No, I'm sorry, I don't have a link. It is one of the statistics quoted at HS conventions so often from NHERI statistics. I've heard it often.

Do you have any idea how they define "teacher"?

One could argue that, by some definition, 100% of homeschooling parents are "teachers" by profession if more than some % of their waking hours is spent homeschooling their children, but that's probably not what the statistic is intended to convey...


Update: I believe the referenced study is:

"A qualitative study of the characteristics of home schooling families in South Carolina" by Brian Ray published HSR Volume 2 Number 4, December 1986. Unfortunately, I cannot find any online sources that do not require a paid subscription.

[MelleeRN]

I chose my words quite carefully.


I'm truly happy for you. Just curious though - how do you know they're great teachers? Is there some objective measure you are using to guage both their capability and their effectiveness? I don't mean demean your opinion - I'm quite honestly curious how you know.

I gauge them on their performance.
Mr. Boyd, my 4th grade teacher ,fresh out of school, education major.
I still was unable to read, yet he did not label me. He took to time to realize why I couldn't read (lack of Convergence, AKA Convergence Insufficiency is rare). He then rewrote all of the lessons into formats that spaced the letters far enough apart so that I could read them Then he spent every day after school with me teaching me to read. Back them prisms for glasses cost well over 900, which foster care did not pay for. What makes him a good teacher?
objectively: He had analytical skills that he used to not only find the problem but to find the solution

With my children's teacher: They think outside of the box to teach my children. My oldest is autistic. The teachers utilize current research and tools to teach all of the children in the class, including my oldest without separating him, which for an autistic child can mean the world in their social development.

My measuring stick for them... they care about what they do, they not only teach, but are successful. The school that they are in when compared to other schools is 3 levels high. What I mean by that, is the children in 6th grade are being taught and most important part, they are understand and learning at a 9th grade level. Not only by the grade and work they bring home, but by the state's measuring stick. (testing the state mandates every year).
As for the rest of your post, I took your first post as a complete bash against education majors and teacher, I most likely read it wrong. However, the link is a very interest link regarding homeschooling, as I stated prior.

Very thoughtful post, and spot on in your assessment I think, I too will be interested in the outcome of your last paragraph....:dirol:

As for you nhlivefreeordie, the answer to what you where interested in is above. Yet, I have the feeling that you were just posting to attempt to get something going besides politics.

[AzLoneRider]

In regards to teachers and homeschooling:


We too homeschool our children. I have heard this statistic before and I am on a hunt for the report that contains it as well. I found a 2009 report from the HSLDA that on page 3 discounts certified teachers. Below is the link.

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/2009_Ray_StudyFINAL.pdf

[AzLoneRider]

Do you have any idea how they define "teacher"?

One could argue that, by some definition, 100% of homeschooling parents are "teachers" by profession if more than some % of their waking hours is spent homeschooling their children, but that's probably not what the statistic is intended to convey...


Update: I believe the referenced study is:

"A qualitative study of the characteristics of home schooling families in South Carolina" by Brian Ray published HSR Volume 2 Number 4, December 1986. Unfortunately, I cannot find any online sources that do not require a paid subscription.

It's possible that that study may be the right one. Below is a link that shows teacher certifications under the Other Demographic Charicteristics.

"A very large percentage of home school parents are certified to teach. Some 19.7% of the home school mothers are certified teachers; 7.1% of fathers. Almost one out of every four home school students (23.6%) has at least one parent who is a certified teacher."

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/rudner1999/FullText.asp

[chrisser]

As for the rest of your post, I took your first post as a complete bash against education majors and teacher, I most likely read it wrong. However, the link is a very interest link regarding homeschooling, as I stated prior.


I don't know that we would share 100% the measures of teacher performance. But I believe that with your children, you have 100% of the discretion and responsibility for their education. If you are satisfied than that is all that matters, IMHO.

Bashing is a strong word. The fact is, the education industry is not recruiting quality people at the entry level end by virtually any objective measure. In my experience, and of course this is difficult to measure and subjective, the education major is often not even really interested in becoming a teacher, but instead has few other career options. The reasons for this (and there are many) are probably a subject for a separate discussion. The result is that the level of teachers being produced by the education major mills suffers.

That said, there are (thankfully) other paths to teaching certification, and even more to being a teacher - using the definition of one who effectively teaches.

Those other paths are often needlessly difficult and because of that (IMHO) the quality of education in this country suffers greatly, but many are able to take those paths in spite of the hurdles and we all benefit.

[nhlivefreeordie]

As for you nhlivefreeordie, the answer to what you where interested in is above. Yet, I have the feeling that you were just posting to attempt to get something going besides politics.

I was just interested why you could make such a cut and dried statement about the teachers. Every where I have checked, ( I raised 3 boys and am still involved in my grandkids education) at best it has been a wash. NO WHERE have ALL the teachers been wonderful or in fact even qualified, much less interested in their job. It is the education majors that seem the worst as far as what I am looking for in a teacher.
If you are going to use state guidelines as your measuring stick and are OK with that, fine, everyone looks for their own idea of a minimum quality education, I don't consider state guidelines to be any where near good enough.
I am very happy for your son, I think autistic children are very special, in fact, once it is totally unlocked, we may find out that they possess one of the keys to learning that most of us don't have. Having said that, I also don't believe that all of the kids have to be held back or slowed down to accommodate special needs children. Hence the special education classes we had many years ago. It all started with homogenous groupings, elimination of honors classes, which I also believe restricts the abilities of gifted children. Those that are gifted or otherwise ahead of the class should be allowed to progress ahead without having to wait for the rest of the class. In simplistic terms it is like giving everyone a trophy. Yes your child deserves the best education YOU can afford for him, he does not deserve to hold up the rest of the class because they are making accommodations for him. He does deserve to have SPECIAL, EXTRA, one on one or small group education.

So no, I wasn't looking to........." get something going beside politics" ? Whatever you meant, I am very interested in educational issues, and have been involved with this topic for 30 years, intimately, I know all about education majors......a lot of them shouldn't be allowed anywhere near someone else's kid.

[MelleeRN]

The fact is, the education industry is not recruiting quality people at the entry level end by virtually any objective measure. .

Honestly, I have seen many professions or degree programs that are just recruiting anyone. That includes nurses, teachers, accountants, and so on.

[MelleeRN]

If you are going to use state guidelines as your measuring stick and are OK with that, fine, everyone looks for their own idea of a minimum quality education, I don't consider state guidelines to be any where near good enough. .
It is not the only measureing that I use for quilification, I was using it to show that they are consantly well above the minium guildelines.


I am very happy for your son, I think autistic children are very special, in fact, once it is totally unlocked, we may find out that they possess one of the keys to learning that most of us don't have. Having said that, I also don't believe that all of the kids have to be held back or slowed down to accommodate special needs children. Hence the special education classes we had many years ago. It all started with homogenous groupings, elimination of honors classes, which I also believe restricts the abilities of gifted children. Those that are gifted or otherwise ahead of the class should be allowed to progress ahead without having to wait for the rest of the class. In simplistic terms it is like giving everyone a trophy. Yes your child deserves the best education YOU can afford for him, he does not deserve to hold up the rest of the class because they are making accommodations for him. He does deserve to have SPECIAL, EXTRA, one on one or small group education. .

My son does not hold anyone back, in fact he is a savant. He went from nonverbal to verbal, from non contact to contact, which is more than any of the doctors believed he would. That is part to the teachers and of course to the countless hours at home every day of therapy. Now other special needs children that do need one on one are provide with their own teacher whose only responsibility is those children so that the other children are not slowed down. Yet, the socialization is still there for the children. We also still have honor classes, which my special needs son is part of 4 of the 5 classes.
One of the big difference between the public school that my children go to and many others, is that their school is also funded by Indian Grant money, a very small school with tons of funds that draw the cream of the crop teachers and a waiting list of students. IMHO, not all education majors are substandard. I personally know many who could have gone into many other programs, but chose education because they want to.

After thought:
All of us that help our children at home with their studies could be considered partial homeschoolers. Either way, each side has reasons for either using public schools or homeschooling. IMHO, the most important aspect is what parents do at home to help their children.

[nhlivefreeordie]

It is not the only measureing that I use for quilification, I was using it to show that they are consantly well above the minium guildelines.



My son does not hold anyone back, in fact he is a savant. He went from nonverbal to verbal, from non contact to contact, which is more than any of the doctors believed he would. That is part to the teachers and of course to the countless hours at home every day of therapy. Now other special needs children that do need one on one are provide with their own teacher whose only responsibility is those children so that the other children are not slowed down. Yet, the socialization is still there for the children. We also still have honor classes, which my special needs son is part of 4 of the 5 classes.
One of the big difference between the public school that my children go to and many others, is that their school is also funded by Indian Grant money, a very small school with tons of funds that draw the cream of the crop teachers and a waiting list of students. IMHO, not all education majors are substandard. I personally know many who could have gone into many other programs, but chose education because they want to.

After thought:
All of us that help our children at home with their studies could be considered partial homeschoolers. Either way, each side has reasons for either using public schools or homeschooling. IMHO, the most important aspect is what parents do at home to help their children.

That is wonderful, the most important part of the whole thing is that it meets YOUR expectations, that is really all that matters. You have a very unique situation, most of the country does NOT have schools that are over funded or have the ability to attract the cream of the crop, nor do they want to.