Elder Care and Hospitals - anyone have experience?

[Deberosa]

Seems I am entering into dealing with this kind of thing.

History:

My dad had a stroke over 30 yeras ago. It was when they decided he had a blocked artery in his neck and operated. In the recovery room a piece they broke loose in the process went to his brain and paralyzed him. THey wanted to stick him in a nursing home then but my mom said no way and took him home and he's had a good 30 years - gradually getting worse, had to put a chair on the stairs a few years back and after a fall he now uses a wheelchair when outside of the house. My mom worked his paralized arm and leg for hours and hours till he could walk, do stairs (they don't have a downstairs bathroom) and basically get around - she got free speech therapy for him by arranging for him to work with students at the college for projects in speech therapy.

Two years ago he had a minor stroke. Now, they have insurance through what is supposed to be this wonderful Geisinger Medical Center - mentioned in best rural places to live in Columbia County, PA???? My mom went to work for them and retired after 20 years when my dad had his stroke. She worked nights while he slept. Also - I am 3000 miles away in Washington... My brother and sister in law live in the other half of the big duplex farmtype house they have. My sister in law is a nurse.

Anyhow - when my mom retired she got the special Geisinger insurance but it meant surrendering rights to medicare. She did it because of my dad's needs.

When he had the stroke two years ago they left him in the ER for four days!!!! He caught the flu in that pit and got even sicker. They finally moved him off to therapy and while in there he came out with a bladder infection. My mom had to be there to take care of washing him and all personal needs - they just left him lay.

Now day before yesterday he had another small stroke. My mom and SIL were ready and started pushing to get out of the ER pronto. THey finally put him in a room. THen they woke him at 10:30 pm for an MRI and early the next morning the grilling started...
They are grilling my mom about power of attorney, they are grilling my dad because they want to prove he has dementia in which case they can be rid of him to a nursing home. They want to operate again and my dad says no, I don't blame him! So then they wanted to just shuffle him off to a nursing home. FInally my mom keeps insisting - got handed 30 page documents to sign saying they are not OK with all this. And they got transferred to the therapy place. THere this "beaurocrat" starts in on them - wants my mom out of the picture and wants all kinds of proof she had power of attorney. Fooled that b___ch my mom has every paper with her on their medical history. ;-) THen she wants to prove my dad is mentally not all there - and boy that's going to be hard!!! Who's the President, Bush - with his editorial comments. ;-) Does he know my mom, well he reminded her to go to her hair appt today before coming back to the hospital. ;-) Gave her his birth date, would probably have recited his dog tags from the Marines if she gave him half a chance. ;-) Then she insists on checking his body for bruises and doing a bladder scan!!!! Asking my mom how she cares for him, made her feel like she has been lacking and that's why she is here, had her caught off her guard for sure. ANd this is all while both had little sleep and it's been a long day and Mom is 76 and Dad is 82!!!! But it just couldn't wait!!! Meanwhile - (It still gets better!). THey put him in the room, and in the morning they put him in a recliner next to the bed and never came back!!!! My mom took care of his urinal, and other personal stuff. Good thing she was there all day!!! ANd they are wondering about HER care?????


OK, so now my question... Have any of you encountered this? Are they just harassing her because they have to pay more for the service because it's their insurance and they are not creaming off medicade? I gave her some ammunition this morning for today and SIL has been helping too. I think this is outright harrassment and at the least p__ss poor service! Do I need to go there and raise h-e double toothpicks?

I've had this issue with Social Security when they were going to deny that my Dad was disabled. I went back there and my mom and I got Dad into the car and we took him to the SS office. At that point he was not in very good shape - still drooling alot from the paralysis but very alert. We sat him in the waiting room and they got all upset. I told them they were thinking he wasn't disabled so thought we would bring him in so they could evaluate for themselves. He got disability right away! So many on SS disability are deadbeats but then they harass the ones that need it and have paid for it!!!

OK, Rant over - any insight would be helpful. If I have to go back to PA that hospital had better watch out!

[WileyCoyote]

Short answer - Yes.
My father was paralyzed due to strokes and I had to raise Hell every time he had to go to the hospital (he was a diabetic, too, and when he had a stroke it would play havoc with his Blood sugar) - I had to go 150 miles to do it, every single time. Finally I moved them down near us in an assisted living center (NOT a nursing home, complete autonomy but a nursing staff on 24-hour call), and still had to raise hell with the docs and nurses every time he went into the hospital. And I was well known there as an EMT already!

Tell your mom do NOT let these people push her around, they have to emphasize cost effectiveness and that means that the patients suffer. I too have had to help my dad with his urinal, give him bed baths (imagine how embarrassing for a man's daughter to see him naked and have to take care of him!) because the nurses wouldn't... then I'd write them up and take it to the nursing supervisor, copy to his doctor.

Yes you have to fight them very hard because they do not see your dad as a person but as a money pit. The VA treated my dad the same way, as did the military hospitals; he was a veteran and they do NOT like to treat any one except active duty.

Time to let the B!&@# out, Debbie!

[Deberosa]

Thanks for the reality check and now I have more strategies to try. Didn't think of starting to have this stuff written up. And that is probably exactly why he left with a bladder infection the last time and probably why they want that bladder scan! No wonder there are so many medical lawsuits!

I could tell they hurt my mom mentally yesterday - put doubt in her mind and she is by far the strongest woman I know. Today she said she was rested and ready to do battle, which is pretty much how I am too - get hurt at first and then get even!

Thanks,

Debbie

[nancy1340]

Sic'em Deb.

I do not envy you the next few years. It will be a constant battle. Good luck with it.

[sbemt456]

My heart goes out to you with your dad having a stroke, that is how I lost mine April 16 2004, but he had a bleed. We were blessed to have a wonderful Doctor who was very compassinate and was very honest as to what we could expect with dad. Somewhere in the facility there should be a notice posted with the phone number of an ombudsman that you can call and voice your views and complaints. If like most hospitals in Kentucky your dad probably got the bladder infection in the hospital from no so sanitary cinditions, it is call nosacomial infections (infections spread in medical facilities), but unfortunately the type of insurance a person has will most times be reflected back in the care they get. And you are most likely right, it probably dont pay as well as medicare and the hospital dont make enough money so they dont care for the patients. And probably like here the facility is grossly understaffed. But that is no excuse to treat someone so bad, not to mention their family. One other thing they are thinking is that at their age, they are counting on your parents not being mentally capable of remembering or have family close enough to get them in hot water. If you go there that will be one of the things I bet you run into, is they will say they were not sure if your mom and dad understood fully the decisions they were about to make. My heart goes out to you. Been there done that. aint no fun, will stress you to the max.I have worked EMS for 14 years and have seen my share of elderly folks neglected. It nearly killed me to have to place my dad in a nursing home, but they knew me there as I transported many patients out of there and dad got spoiled rotten because they never knew when I was going to just pop in, even at midnight when I got off work. I dont care for nursing home in general but they have their place, we just physically could not care for dad at home and it was heartbreaking, but that is the part they played for us. By the way you are blessed that your dad still has his mind, my dad's stroke had an ill effect on him, he was not able to walk, at times could not communicate with us and the part of his brain affected hindered his ability to tell us if he was in pain. It was too much to bear at times. Hang in there, prayers for ya!

[Deberosa]

Thanks for the input. Things went better yesterday. The beaurocrat was put in her place because she soon found out my mom had her ducks in a row and she wasn't dealing with two dummies!

My dad is walking with help already. Showered himself as usual once they got him to the shower and dressed himself as usual. This was really good news since last time they let him lay on the gurney so long that it took weeks to get to that point.

The beaurocrat sees my mom and looks the other way - won't make eye contact. B__TCH!!!

Once they get to the physical therapists it's a different story -very nice and helpful people so looks like the worst is over this time around.

Thanks for the good thoughts and the advice. I've passed them along to my mom but she is now on top of it again. What a shame you have to do that just to get help but guess that's the way it is.

Debbie

[sbemt456]

Glad to hear things are going better for your family. The general attitude of most hospital staff and a lot of people with medical training in any field is they get a few years in and they think they know it all, I have seen that in my field as well and soon or later they get brought back to earth. Those people will weed themselves out. Still no excuse to treat others so bad. IMHO there is a class somewhere in the different medical classes that is called Rudeness 101 and they all passed. Keep your chin up, dont let the b%*7s get you down.

[redneckrn]

First off, I want to tell you that I know EXACTLY what you are up against. Not only have I been an RN for almost 25 years (& retired, thank goodness), but I had both parents in nursing homes & was involved with all the legal & other BS that they throw at you. I've been on both sides of the picture, so to speak. I would tell you first & foremost- DO NOT LET THEM TELL YOUR MOM WHAT SHE SHOULD DO. That is HER (& your Dad's) decision & ONLY THEIRS. Sounds like she knows exactly how to care for him & need his needs. The big push now is to do what some members of the health profession ( mostly docs), call "treat em' & street em'- meaning treat as QUICKLY as you can & get them out of the facility. Nice, right??? Believe me, the big corporations do NOT have the patient's well being as their first priority- it is $$$$$$$$$$$$$ & LOTS of it. I have been everything from director of nurses to staff nurse- so I KNOW wherefore I speak.
Next of all let me tell you that I would be the first person to tell you that there is NO EXCUSE for poor nursing care. NONE!!!!!! Yes, nurses usually work short handed - but there are far too many out there who are just plain lazy & do not care about their patients. I know 'cause I've fired more than a handfull for just such as that. There are also a huge number of foreign nurses in the hospitals who were hired & paid BIG bucks because of the inability to staff the hospitals. These folks, are for the most part unable to speak intelligible English, are in it for the $$ & could give a hoot less about taking care of the patient. Depending on the country of origin & their culture, alot of them have NO sympathy for those in pain.
As to the options for your father's future care- IF your mom feels comfortable taking care of him at home, by ALL means encourage her to do so. It is NOT an easy job, but with love it is doable. Tell her to also check into home health if she does decide to care for him at home. These nurses are on call 24/7 & are only a phone call away for questions & a home visit if needed. If he ever does HAVE to go to a nursing home - there are good & bad, as you well know. Contrary to popular belief, NOT all are the hell holes that people believe. I can give you tips on choosing if you should ever need to do so.
I wish you & yours well & please let me know if I can help in any way. STAND YOUR GROUND- IT'S WORTH THE EFFORT.

[CatherineID]

Do you have an option on which convalescent hospital your dad can be in? The Medicare website has the inspection reports for EVERY convalescent hospital out there. It is very eye opening. The place that the social worker recommended was an absolute pit. I wouldn't have kennelled my dog there! With the help of the Medicare website we found a decent place. It made all the difference.

[StephiLou]

Deb,

I feel your pain. We have spent most of the last 4 years in the hospital. The first thing you have to learn is the squeaky wheel gets the grease. #2. You are not there to make friends. If you treat the staff with respect and they dump on you - all bets are off. Find out who the nursing superv is, the VP of that division, and the contact for Risk Management in this hospital. Tell your Mom to make sure that she has a cell phone with her - even if it doesn't work. Everytime they ask her to sign something, get out the cell and let them know you can continue the discussion when your lawyer gets there.

I worked in a hospital, and I hate to be that way. But the service your Dad has received so far is criminal. Bring a video camera in. Our son started getting WAAAAAYYYYYYY better treatment when we started video taping every person that hit the door. Don't let them give you any bullsh*t about HIPPA either. AS long as you are not videoing any other patients, you are not in violation. While she's at it, tell your Mom to get a tape recorder and let every doctor and nurse know that you are taping every conversation. The stuff will quit real quick.

One other thing, somebody needs to be at the hospital with him at all times. Your brother and SIL should qualify for FMLA. That is what it is there for. Get FMLA papers signed and take shifts.

You also have the right to be transferred to another facility. Your Mom should call the insurance company and ask of they have a case manager to help her. If this is a case of negligence because of the type of insurance, the first time your Mom mentions that they will be included in any lawsuits, they will trip over themselves to make sure things are right.

I missed what state they are in, but it sounds like the people that were talking to your Mom & Dad were the Senior Ombudsman - the equivalent of DCFS for seniors. They are a nightmare, but if you have your ducks in a row, they can't do anything.

Its a real pain, but if treatment doesn't improve be ready to call in your State Rep, every newspaper and tv reporter within 100 miles.

All this sounds horrible, but it usually never comes to this point. A few good meetings with the nursing supers, the director of the unit, and risk management should take care of any problems.

Good luck and God Bless.

Steph