Neighbor has a new cow, why can't I have a g

[cookfor4]

We live in a very small village, only 200 people, and we have a little over an acre of land. We have chickens, which no one has said anything about, and the mayor knows about.
Only one other person has chickens, the older couple down the block.
I drove past today, and they have two cows now! In their yard!
I had asked when we moved about getting a goat, and was told, "I'm not so sure about that...." by the mayor.
Should I try again?

[backlash]

I would ask again but I would not mention the old couple having 2 cows.
I wouldn't want to cause them any problems.
backlash

[WileyCoyote]

Some folks are funny about goats. They 'smell', they are 'dirty', they 'eat any and everything' - the popular and misleading pictures of goats munching on tin cans is often in the back of peoples' minds. They also butt people, and the males are considered very aggressive. They can be a danger to small children.

Before the 'goat people' on here jump me, I am talking about the perception of goats, not the actual goat. These are all the things I've heard others say about goats I worked with on a small farm.

Cows are known for their gentleness and mindlessness (again, please don't crawl me!), their lack of aggression, their lack of interest in the world around them.

Do talk to the mayor again, but bring up the positives of goats; explain that you know goats and that they are gentle, funny creatures, etc.; but especially that you can control their behavior. You could even offer him a goat-mower use for his yard.

[momma_to_seven_chi]

I am sure everyone will tell you this is bad advice, but I would just go ahead and get a pair of does. In a town of only 200, it would be harder for them to pursue the matter forcing you to get rid of them rather than just leaving you alone. And since the neighbors have cows, the village would have to pursue both families at once. You have an acre to keep them on, so they shouldn't bother anyone. Just make a small pen for them, get them, and see what happens. I doubt it will become a huge court case. *People may grumble, but when push comes to shove, they won't put out the money to battle you in court over this. And just because anyone grumbles (mayor included) doesn't mean you have to bow to their wishes. *Without a court order from a judge, you don't have to get rid of them. Would they really go through all that in a town of 200 where they would have to pursue others on the livestock issue too? It's doubtful.

You don't have to please everyone. If goats don't please them, so what? It all comes down to the actual laws on the books being applied fairly.

[mtwildflower]

I would check first to make sure the cows are temporary. They may only be there for a week or two. Maybe they're 'cow sitting' ;)

I would check though before getting your goats. Heck, I'd even talk to the neighbors and ask if they got permission or whatever. They might have some insight as to why your goat request was met with resistance.

[WileyCoyote]

I have to agree, momma_to_seven - that is potentially harmful advice. Forcing the issue can result in bad blood between neighbors. There are a great many ways to hurt your rep in a small town. If you want to run a business (eventually) selling goat cheese, or of any other kind, or even if you want to socialize, it is very had to do if people remember that you 'forced' the town to make a decision on your goats, or forced the issue - especially if you win. Now if you talk to your neighbors and they don't have a problem - and if your goat area is not offensive as to smell or runoff - then you can perhaps persuade people. While I am a firm believer in property rights, *there are ways that neighbors can make your life a living hell - and any regulations, Federal, State or local that they invoke to quash you can be painful both emotionally and fiscally. Throwing down the goat gauntlet may cost you more in the long run.

[Anon001]

I agree that it is bad advice. All the city has to do is get an injunction and then confiscate the goats without permission.... in most places.

My first action would be to ask for a copy of the zoning. If there is nothing in the zoning, get the goats. If there is anything about livestock, then do as WileyCoyote suggsted and talk to people and get permission.

[cookfor4]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I had a chance to talk to some of the neighbors, and they think it is temporary situation. I am still planning on asking about the zoning laws, but according to the neighbors who have lived here a very long time, there aren't any actual laws about it? The mayor also backed that up by saying she could'nt find anything, and that it was more of a getting the consent of your neighbors kind of thing. So I'm going to ask around, and still get the zoning info, because I REALLY don't want to tick anyone off.
I'll keep you updated! Thanks for the advice!
Amy

[cinok]

Just make sure that you keep them behind good fences. If you do not live in a area with neighbors who are not animal friendly a loose goat munching on someones garden will not be good for neighborly relations.

[momma_to_seven_chi]

You are a much nicer person than me. *If there is no law against it, then I would just get them whether the neighbors liked it or not. It would be a legal battle on their part to make you get rid of them once you get them. *And in a tiny town of 200 people, that probably won't happen. Even if they went to the trouble to change the law to negate livestock, your goats would be already there, grandfathered in. I wouldn't even mess with the neighbors or mayor or anything else. Their opinions are not law.

I know that sounds harsh, but we homeschooled since back before it was popular. You just learn to read the law as written and ignore anyone else's opinions or ideas. in fact once you start trying to please the school or ROE, you get walked all over by their guidelines which really are not law. You can only be prosecuted for breaking the law, not for ticking off the school (or in your case the mayor).

That attitude kind of spreads to all areas, even goat ownership. If you try to please everyone, you just hurt yourself. *Why should you go without something you want (goats) just because a mayor (with no true written legal authority on this issue) tells you to get other people's approval? If it is not law, then it isn't going to hurt you. It all boils down to whether you want to please your neighbors at the expense of your own lifestyle even when there is no law against goats.

[silvergramma]

ok it depends on the politics already established in a lil town like that.. believe me i just moved out of a small town that size,,, the mayors kids had a rabbit in a cage in their back yard,, (pet) yet its still considered livestock..goats depends ... i have 8 here given to me free in two batches... the last batche was 3 billys and a pregnant nanny,, the one lil billy is a turd.. aggressive and stupid.. just being what he is or bad breeding .. the other two are lovelies actually and are only agressive over the females but they can be destructive when the billys are rutting...they have knocked the outter walls of my chicken room out and have really been tearing things up .. not eating them but their horns are tough and i'm constantly trying to keep up with what ever they have knocked down or torn out.. finally just said to heck with it..
check the city ordinances through the town council.. see what your limits are ..
i dont have any as i live outside city limits now..
but i will either be shooting this third billy or taking him to auction .. something...this morning and last night he almost ran me down and he's just a lil thing.. it aint gonna get better...

[WileyCoyote]

Slightly off-topic, but about living in a small town....

I moved here a year ago (town of 177 people). I bought the oldest farmhouse in the area, 100 yrs old; the whole property (which we also own) used to be a local dairy as well as more than half of the locals' grandparents' home. The first family before me who bought this house "out of family" upgraded it inside. The second family (whom I bought it from) trashed it and the property abominably. The second family didn't have enough bad things to say about the way they were treated by the locals; snobby, standoffish, arrogant, even mean and taking advantage of them. They were GLAD to get out of here, and even sneered at the locals when they left, saying "I hope your taxes go up and run you out of town with our house selling!"

DH and I set about quietly fixing up the place and restoring it to its natural beauty. We cleaned up trash that had sat for several years, stacked the firewood neatly, mowed and planted flowers, fixed the cracked pond out front, etc. I painted the house a bright white with blood-red trim, bright and cheerful. The locals started coming to us saying how wonderful it was that we fixed it up, and now we have lots of friends who love what we are doing and who are interested in what we have planned. They are tickled by the chicken tractors that are painted vaguely (no copyright abuse) to resemble Kentucky Fried Chicken boxes (white with red stripes). While my friend who owns the only restaurant bar in 10 miles has to worry about folks with high credit, we always pay cash - or do without. DH and I have told them that we want to turn it back into a small dairy and make our own cheese and butter, and the locals are supportive.

On the other hand, are the folks who live around the corner from us. They have 5 kids, and spout their religion like a mantra - but are always demanding that everyone cater to them. They let their dogs and kids run loose and shrug and say simperingly, "Oh, well, we can't control them!" They invite themselves to every event that serves food, bring their children, let them throw food and trash the place, then leave before the program starts.They insert their children into everything, and demand that they be catered to, as if breeding spoiled brats was a talent that everyone else should reward. *No one likes them. No one trusts them. No one has anything to do with them. They are merely - tolerated. Barely.

My point is simply this - you can come into a lightly populated area and insist that you are in the right, that you have rights, that you should be able to do whatever you want, and that is when folks band together to make regulations to keep you from infringing on them. Or, you can come into an area, still be independent, still do what you want with your property, but do it in such a way that the local folks embrace you, encourage you, and want to be friends with you.

If you read Heinlein, it is what I call the "Blue Mud Theory" - when the locals rub blue mud into their belly buttons, you do the same, smiling and being friendly, open, happy, and honest. Then you do as you damned well please and - everyone supports you. Folks hereabouts had never heard of chicken tractors, and now - after happy and cheerful, even humorous explaining - think it is a GREAT idea and we should patent it! LOL

"Going along to get along" only means that you respect other peoples' innate fears and gut reactions, anticipate them, and make allowances for them, by respecting them, then de-fusing them so that they don't blow up in your face. The people who owned the house before us will never learn that, chose not to learn it, the same as the family up the street. Who is it who ultimately suffers from that refusal to learn, to 'rub blue mud into their belly buttons' ? All my life I've been called "Crazy Wiley" because of my different ideas and ideals - but always with affection and indulgent humor. You can have all the "crazy" ideas you want - but if you are happy and friendly and make them work for you, what difference does it make what people call you? *;) *;D *If that arrogant neighbor's uncontrolled dog decides to tear into my chicken tractor to destroy my hens, and I shoot him, who do you think will have the community's support?

[rantinraven]

Cookfor4,
I think you were probably denied the goat because of a misconception about them. Every time I say anything about getting a goat I hear all about their bad habits and that you cant keep them penned in a fence that they will jump it or eat through it. Maybe the mayor simply wonders how he would handle it if your goat got out and was eating pieces of the neighbors car (I have heard that one too). Maybe simply talking to him and alleviating any fears he may have will work.

Wiley I think the chicken tractors painted that way are just great!!! I would love to see a picture.