Scottish Highland Cattle

[crmemory]

We are trying to decide what breed of cattle to get for our homestead. We want a decent dual-purpose, with the intent to keep 1-2 cows for breeding and milk every year, and slaughter the calves. I have quality breeder sources for 2--dexter and scottish highlands. I cannot make the decision. It is easy to find info on dexters, and I am familiar with their advantages. What little info I can find on the Highlands, though, has me intrigued and actually leaning toward them. Does anyone have any experience with these cattle? A few things I like:
--hardy and more disease resistant than most
--good mothers and low frequency of calving problems
--gentle (we have lots of young children!)
--can thrive on browse as well as graze, and we have lots of browse!!
--lean meat, which we prefer
--come in a variety of colors and markings

Down side: they are hairy and will likely require some regular grooming in our set up, and they have horns--big ones! DH doesn't want to dehorn.

Any suggestions?

[harvester]

if i were going for a dual purpose utility cow id go with a jersey or a gurnsey and simply have them bred to a hereford.

[crmemory]

If we find more options available, I may consider that route. For now, though, the only easy and trusted cattle sources I have for initially acquiring the (quality) cattle are the dexter and the highland. The only one I have easy access for breeding is the dexter. I am still trying to locate sale barns and such, but it seems any decent ones are several hours away. I will keep checking.

I am still very intrigued by the Highlands, though, I have to admit. They are so unique looking, and their many advantages keep my interest!

[harvester]

well this is a big thing tho. when you are getting new additions to your homestead or farm, be sure its ones that you like. it will make a big difference.

[crmemory]

What you say makes sense, but I am unclear as to whether you are refering to me being most interested in Highlands, or investigating other breeds further (which I have done a lot of!)?

Cattle will be a new experience no matter what we do. I have had limited dealings with a hereford heifer that was raised for beef, but that is it. So we are hands-on learning what we can from the dexter breeder, and otherwise starting from scratch.

[Anon001]

Crmemory,
I would also like to add a couple thoughts. Part of your decision making should also include the size of your family in relation to pounds of milk produced per cow and pounds of meat. Also you should have a well thought out plan as far as what you plan to do with the animals in the long run and how many acres you have. What do you plan to do with the calves? Are you going to butcher them all just for your family? Are you going to sell the extra calves?

If you are planning to sell the calves, you need calves that are marketable. It is easier to buy animals for which a market already exists rather than buying animals and hoping you can create a market. You may be able to market anything but certainly your standard breeds are more marketable for beef in many areas.

The idea of getting a Jersey and breeding to a Hereford is a good one. The Hereford bull is one of the most gentle. However, if you only have 2 or 3 cows it doesn't pay to keep a bull. You are better off borrowing or leasing a bull for 60 days or going the AI route which isn't very expensive...

So, I would look at a lot of factors besides just the ones you thought of. Herefords are good mothers and very few calving problems. But then again, so are Longhorns. lol... they are the most protective mothers of all the breeds. They are hardy, they produce more milk than most beef cattle but far less than dairy cattle. So, it just depends on your circumstances and how many acres you have.

If it was me, I would start with a "gentle" standard breed if you have the room. Then after you become more educated on cattle and as you develop a market move on to the exotic breeds rather than starting with them. I have a friend that sold some Scottish highland calves in January. They looked good for their breed. He sold them one week after I sold my calves. His brought between 30 cents and 40 cents a pound and every one of mine brought from $1.04 to $1.11 per pound.. So you want to keep that in mind if you are planning to sell the calves to pay for the keep on the others.

Good Luck,
Paul

[crmemory]

Well, I was trying to keep my post short and to the point, but it seems as though I have only created questions. So here is our "plan."......

We have about 28 acres, only about 9 of which is pasture (rich and green mixed grasses). The pastures will be divided into 3 fenced areas for the purposes of rotating. Due to the limited pasture acreage (and a desire to be as sustaining as possible), we are trying to stick with small numbers of animals at this point. The animals (that can browse) will also be rotated through forested paddocks and non-pasture barn paddocks to give the grasses a break. The cows will be pastured with 3 horses. In another pasture will be a handful of goats and a guardian burro. We also hope to introduce a hog or two in the future, but that is yet to be decided. We will rotate fryer/broiler chickens in a tractor to do some pasture maintenance, and there will also be a layers coop centrally located between an orchard and garden, allowing us to fence off the chickens as necessary. The hogs and goats will also be let into these areas at certain times of year for land prep, maintenance, and clean-up. Hope that all makes sense. Also worth noting is that we live in a cooler temperate environment, and we lose most grass and have snow cover for a portion of the year. Therefore, we will have to hay for part of the year at least.

As far as family and intent, for now, we are providing for 8, and since we also plan to milk the goats for some of our cheeses, milk, and soap, I figure I only need about 4-5 gallons of cow milk a week until I learn to make more cheeses and such. I already do butter, and we also use buttermilk, and cream. While we wouldn't mind turning over a profit in the future, we are just hoping to have the animals pay for themselves for now--between what we save by raising our own, and what little we sell (or barter) to friends and neighbors.

So, my ideal animals are the well-bred, disease resistant, hardy, easy-breeding, easy-birthing, good mothers (but not aggressive/overly protective) larger animals. Animals that can do well on browse and forage are a bonus, since we have so much. Overall, the heritage animals seem to fit the majority of these characteristics for the most part. I don't mind paying a little more at first to start out with better stock.

Hope that answers more questions and clarifies things.

[Anon001]

It sounds like you have a good plan. I don't know what area you are in, but next to sheep, horses are the hardest thing on grasses. I have two horses. I would only have one except that I have plenty ground and they earn their keep. I don't have anything that doesn't earn it's keep. Also, on that size of place, if I didn't have to, I wouldn't get a burro or a donkey for the goats. I would get a dog. A good stock dog can do just as well as a burro and doesn't eat any of what will be much needed grass. Between 3 cows, their calves and 3 horses, you will most likely run short of grass not to mention, you may have to buy hay... If I understand your plan you will have 3 cows and calves, 3 horses, goats, and a burro on just 9 acres and want them to pay their own way? But, a lot of that is geographical and I don't know what part of the country you are in. But I would still have a hard time imagining that many animals (especially with horses) being self-sustaining on 9 acres.

The small pasture is where the small cattle would pay off, but keep in mind that if you intend to sell the calves from a small or exotic breed, they will most likely not bring enough to pay for feed and hay, not to mention the vaccinations, farrier, etc., unless you were able to get a good reputation as a breeder and develop a market.... but with 3 cows, that will be harder to do.

My 2 horses cost about $30.00 per year for vaccinations and that is with ME doing the work. If I had a vet to do it, it would run about $20 per horse more. The farrier in these areas has to trim horse hooves at least once every 6 weeks at a cost of about $50.00 per horse. I don't shod a horse and I do my own hoof trimming. But, I've been around it all my life (raised on a ranch). You also have to float their teeth which runs about $100... but the teeth don't have to be done every year.

Then you have the cattle and goat vaccines. I'm not talking anything chemical.... just vaccinations.

But, I sure have to commend you on how well you have planned and how much time you've obviously put toward your planning.


my ideal animals are the well-bred, disease resistant, hardy, easy-breeding, easy-birthing, good mothers (but not aggressive/overly protective) larger animals.
Most cattle breeds fit those requirements if you pay attention to what you are doing. However, cattle are not pets and a mama cow can turn on you pretty quick...even one that has always been "tame". Some breeds it rarely happens, but one of the biggest mistakes people moving to the country make is seeing all livestock as pets.

Here the extension agents say that you should put no more than one cow/calf pair per 1 1/2 acres. But most of the time it requires more like 2 to 3 acres because of the type of grasses. I use native grasses which let me get more tonnage per acre of grazing and/or hay. Also, cows don't forage like a goat does.

Anyway, I will say you are on the right track.... I am really impressed. I have proven that people can build a homestead that will pay its own way and support me.... I just wish mine had been as well thought out and as well planned as yours.

Paul

[crmemory]

Thank you for the kind words. *I am well aware of the expense of horses! *In fact, my degree is in equine business mgt, I have owned and trained for many years. *I have also had goats and chickens. *We decided on the burro for several reasons. If I happen to find a decent guardian that is still very safe and trustworthy with kids and people, I would consider. *

No, I do NOT want 3 cows, at least in the current plan. *At first only 1, and we may work our way to 2. *They would each be intended for breeding, but I would try to stagger it such that one calf might be sold off before taking too much grass, while the other we would hold short-term and kill a bit young (8-12 mo) for beef. *Granted the horse/cow group will be hardest on the grass, but we plan to rotate frequently (weekly unless we see otherwise is needed). *We are only planning 2-4 goats plus their occasional kids, so they will not be too hard on their pasture, and I plan to turn them out to forage in the wooded acres regularly. *So at any given time, one pasture will hopefully be resting.

We, too, are hoping to make our animals pay for themselves. *The horses MAY be the exception, however, they may also come in handy for a little logging and we get snowed in! *We are hoping to use as much animal power as possible to eliminate gas/electric use as much as possible. *We are also planning to go natural, hence the need for disease resistance. *We are very fortunate to be located in an area with few livestock. *There are a few horses, but that is it for miles in every direction, which reduces our chance of disease. *I figure if we use plenty of diatomaceous earth, in addition to chickens, and cats, we can hopefully control most insects and intestinal parasites.

And then again, perhaps we are totally dreaming! *Things never work out quite like our dreams or plans, so we may in for some surprises :o. *But the learning experience is half the fun of homesteading, right?! ;)

[fancyfowl]

We ran a registered herd and a purebred herd of 7-8 cows each. They are good at rustling up their grub, cold has no effect on them, calves are small and tuff. They need to calve in cool weather or they are prone to fly strile,. especially 1st calvers as the heifers arent the best at cleaning off all that hair and the flies get to it quick.They prefer to be out in the weather no matter what, most we had were gentle enuff, a couple crazies tho. The horns really knock the price down if you need to sell one at auction, they kbnow what horns are for but I never knew one to be bad around a human, cept for the 2 crazies. They are slow to finish and the older style will not grade up like an Angus or hereford. Our bull weighed around 1750 lbs at 4 years old. They do make good mothers. We did start breeding to hereford and ran hereford cross cows and bred back to a hereford bull and that made some very nice animals which finished nice on grass. They would be hard to milk due to the long hairs, I did milk one and clipped her around the udder and belly area. they used to be real traffic stoppers 25 years ago but are more common now. If I were to get another couple cattle it would be the dexters.

[Anon001]

Thank you for the kind words. *I am well aware of the expense of horses! *In fact, my degree is in equine business mgt, I have owned and trained for many years.

That's great. Then I guess I just preached to the choir, huh? LOL

I have also had goats and chickens.

That's good. So, you aren't new to livestock like a lot of homesteaders are. When I was managing a coop, we use to hear all kinds of stories with bad experiences. The one I remember the most was a couple with their 13 year old daughter moved to the country. Keep in mind the girl was timid and had never even been near a horse... much less ridden one. But, she "loved horses" so they bought her a very young mare.... they thought it was such a good deal. Come to find out, it was a green broke, high strung Arabian and it turned out bad.... for the girl and the horse.....
*
No, I do NOT want 3 cows, at least in the current plan. *At first only 1, and we may work our way to 2.

I mis-read your original posting, sorry.

....one calf might be sold off before taking too much grass, while the other we would hold short-term and kill a bit young (8-12 mo) for beef.

With a family of 8? I think you will find that a miniature butchered at such a young age may not give you enough meat for a year....

We, too, are hoping to make our animals pay for themselves.

In your situation, it is possible, but won't be easy.... I always made sure that mine did. But, I think you will find a way to make it work.

We are also planning to go natural, hence the need for disease resistance.

I will tell you this... in cattle and goats, the disease resistance has more to do with the management than with the breed. Some breeds are less susceptible, but among cattle breeds it isn't that diverse. However, if you degreed in Equine Management you will know that "dry" lots are the worst thing for cattle and goats... especially babies. I kept "arguing" with a farmer (a friend) that always dry lotted his cattle in winter and at calving. Mine have always been pastured. He always has problems with new calves and sometimes to the point he has to have the vet out to run them through the chute because he can't buy what will heal them. I have had the vet out once in the last 11 years and that was to post a cow, not to heal one. So, I have proven to him that pasturing year round reduces animal costs and increases disease resistance more than anything else.

I figure if we use plenty of diatomaceous earth, in addition to chickens, and cats, we can hopefully control most insects and intestinal parasites.

I do that as well, but I still vaccinate. There are some things cattle and goats are susceptible to that only vaccinations will prevent. As I'm sure you know, most people new to rural living will refuse to vaccinate because they see it as putting "chemicals" into their food. But, we know that isn't the case. Vaccinations are the viruses to build antibodies. unlike chemical additives in feed, pour-ons, etc.

And then again, perhaps we are totally dreaming! *Things never work out quite like our dreams or plans, so we may in for some surprises :o. *But the learning experience is half the fun of homesteading, right?! ;)

Of course you're dreaming! LOL but, that is the where most modern day homesteads start, isn't it? And without dreaming, you won't accomplish anything. But, all dreams can be realized. I hope it works the way you have planned, but like a lot of well laid plans, they have to be modified as you go......

I have seen some people over plan to the point that they can't handle it when it doesn't pan out perfectly according to their plans and they freak out instead of altering the plan.

Good luck. I look forward to hearing about your progress and I hope we get to see lots of pictures along the way....
Paul

[harvester]

ok so im confused. why do you want a cow when you have milk goats?

with my place being small ive decided to go with goats and no cows. one goat produces 2 gallons of milk daily and eats 1/4 of what a horse eats. Knowing that cattle are huge eaters, (something my neighbor new to cows has discovered) I can keep two goats which is equivelent to what an average cow can produce each day with milk at a fraction of the cost. I have dairy goats and breed them to meat goats and have the meat and milk.
for me its not justifyable to have both animals other than to have the beef from the cows. Therefore if it was me, I wouldnt try to sustain a milk cow over winter on 6x or more the amount of feed it would take to sustain 2 goats. just for the sake of the meat, when if i wanted beef i could easily get a calf, raise it on the goats milk and butcher it in the fall and not have to take it over winter. or keep the goats, have the milk and meat from them and buy half a beef or whatever i wanted from someone else.
i guess what im saying is that you are looking for a milk animal too, but you already have that in your goats. so to me you are doubling up on your milk production with a cow but its costing you way more to keep the cow than to just get another milk goat and buy a freezer cow.
did that make any sence?

[crmemory]

I truly am appreciating all this feedback! It is definitely putting thoughts into my head. We have been researching and planning all aspects for quite some time now, and will actually start the preps for the livestock this fall on the farm. There is only so much planning you can do without having actually done it, though, so I am enjoying all these responses!

Beef is the primary reason we want cows, and we want to raise our own. If I can find a freshly weaned one (which may possible with the dexters), then I may consider just raising one for beef. Also, while I plan to milk the goats, for now, I have not been impressed with the raw goats milk I have had. It tasted like a soapy goat to me! :-/ My hope is that I will aquire the taste and make life simpler later, but because milk is a staple in our diet, for now we are trying to have the backup plan of cow milk. Hope that makes sense. We have no pastured goats around here where we live now, so the milk I have had is from hay and possibly brush forage-fed goats. It will be interesting to see how our goat's milk tastes when they are actually on the pasture. For what it's worth, I am pretty confident we will start with the goats, and possibly aquire a heifer calf soon after. Then, if I can't acquire the taste for the goat's milk, I have the option to breed later. If I don't need the milk, I can slaughter--hopefully before winter. Thanks for putting the thoughts in my head!

It also isn't a problem to slaughter a bit young, as we don't need our full supply of annual beef from the cow. We will also have all the chickens and maybe (eventually) a hog. I am expecting to produce very little of my own food in the first few years. We will be doing so much experimenting. We would just like to do it as soon as possible, and as organically as possible.

A few other thoughts/considerations I have had are:
-- raising rabbits. I have done this before, and know how simple it is, but is it really worth the effort (however little that may be)? Is the meat that good? Is there any way to bring in a profit on them?
--I have researched many of the dairy and meat goats out there, but is there a particular breed that tends to have less risk of a "goat" flavor in the milk, or is this simply a personal issue for me and my family?

Finally, do any of you more experienced livestock raisers have homestead-realated blogs? I would love to read up on how you do things.

[harvester]

Beef is the primary reason we want cows, and we want to raise our own. *If I can find a freshly weaned one (which may possible with the dexters), then I may consider just raising one for beef.
just a thougt that hit me as i read this, are you sure you wont get too attatched to a dexter to butcher it? you sound really smitten with them.
*Also, while I plan to milk the goats, for now, I have not been impressed with the raw goats milk I have had. *It tasted like a soapy goat to me! :-/ being an avid goat raiser, i had a small commercial dairy for a period of time and now have just family milk goats (thank god no more 2 hours of hand miliking 70 goats twice a day!) the way you handle your goat milk is of utmost importance to the outcome of the taste.
As for what the goat is fed, browse will taint the milk. If they decide to get into the pine trees(which they will) your milk will have an acid taste. If they find a rich weed, you milk will taste "goaty" like that thick soapy taste you referred to. dairy goats should be on a strict diet of grass and alfalfa with a bit of sweet feed to protect the flavor of the milk.
As for breed, absolutely there is a difference in their milk, some with more (butterfat) content in their milk will have that goaty taste to it. Stay away from pygmys(4-6%), boers(10-16%), nubians(4-6%) for sure. Go with saanens(3-4%), alpines(3-4%) or lamanchas(3-5%) for the best tasting milk. I am partial to lamanchas due to their wonderful nature, quietness, they tend to not jump as much, and they are nicer to fences. My lamanchas produce 2+ gallons a day of very light tasting milk (due to their diets) and you can not tell the difference from their milk and regular 2% off the shelf. i'm very picky about my milk, and i gag at the slightest hint of goaty taste. breed selection, management of diet, and management of the milk is key to producing a very high quality milk. Also lamanchas are dual purpose breeds also doing well in the meat production area. However boer goats are #1 as the quality of their meat far surpasses any other breed, therefore i breed my girls to boer boys.


It also isn't a problem to slaughter a bit young, as we don't need our full supply of annual beef from the cow. *We will also have all the chickens and maybe (eventually) a hog. *I am expecting to produce very little of my own food in the first few years. *We will be doing so much experimenting. *We would just like to do it as soon as possible, and as organically as possible.

you will end up producing more than you think those first years.


A few other thoughts/considerations I have had are:
-- raising rabbits. *I have done this before, and know how simple it is, but is it really worth the effort (however little that may be)? *Is the meat that good? *Is there any way to bring in a profit on them?


I have also had a commercial rabbirty and yes there is a profit to be made if you are in the right area. as far as a table meat i dont believe it can be beat. as far as is it profitable to raise them for the table, absolutely! again, breed is esential, new zealands being best, californians, checkered giants, etc..stay away from huge giant breeds and dwarves.
you can breed a rabbit and expect kits in a month. anywyere from 6-8 is average but i used to get 10-14 with my checkerd giants and they were capable of raising them without any problems. after 6 weeks they should weigh 2 1/2 lbs each and this is when you butcher them for a 2lb fryer. butchering is quick and easy once you get a routine and is best with two people, one to kill and skin and one to butcher. my dad and i used to do about 30 rabbits in an hour.


--I have researched many of the dairy and meat goats out there, but is there a particular breed that tends to have less risk of a "goat" flavor in the milk, or is this simply a personal issue for me and my family?
yes, as explained above. and yes it is very much a personal issue for you and your family. dont waste time raising anything you are not very happy with.

Make sure you dont jump into anything and do alot of research first.

[crmemory]

just a thougt that hit me as i read this, are you sure you wont get too attatched to a dexter to butcher it? you sound really smitten with them.


LOL! I may be a bit smitten with the highlands, but the dexters are just the easiest for me to come by. Like I said, I have a very trusted source that will work with me for high quality animals. DH and I are very practical. I admit, I likely won't be able to do the killing myself (of any animal!), but once dead, it's just meat to me. I think the only livestock raised on my farm that I don't think I could eat would be my own horses. Have an attachment thing with them! ;D

[AlchemyAcres]

Highlands are nice, but if I were forced to pic between the 2 breeds, I'd pic the Dexters.

If I could pic any dual-purpose breed, I'd pic Dutch-Belted.
They give a good amount of milk, are hardy, good for meat and they're well known for their fertility, when compared to dairy breeds.
In this area, Dutch Belted semen is available from some breeding companies, so there's the option of not keeping a bull around specifically for breeding. That's an important consideration for some.


~Martin

[crmemory]

Very interesting you should mention Dutch Belted! It just happens I was researching them last night. I found them to be a very attractive breed, and love the fact that, like the others, they are considered heritage, but the info I read listed them as beef rather than dual purpose. I am interested in knowing more if you have any good resources. Also, our farm is in IL. I do not know of any breeders near us, though I could certainly be wrong. Also, why do you prefer them to dexters?

[AlchemyAcres]

Very interesting you should mention Dutch Belted! It just happens I was researching them last night. I found them to be a very attractive breed, and love the fact that, like the others, they are considered heritage, but the info I read listed them as beef rather than dual purpose. I am interested in knowing more if you have any good resources. Also, our farm is in IL. I do not know of any breeders near us, though I could certainly be wrong. Also, why do you prefer them to dexters?

My only real problem with Dexters for homestead use is the fact that it's difficult, in this area anyway, to find good stock that isn't astronomically priced! They've become quite a novelty for some.

There are strains of Belted that are bred specifically for dairy,
If you can only find the beef type, you could breed to dairy.

What impressed me most about the belties was their fertility, we used to operate a seasonal pasture based dairy, so the abilty to get cows bred back on schedule was paramount. The belties out performed other breeds, by far. It was especially evident at my friend's dairy (which was mostly belties), he always had excess heifers for sale due to the belties ability to breed back on schedule.

Taurus Service is one of the companies that offers Belted dairy semen in this area.

http://www.taurus-service.com/proteinbreedproof.htm

Belted Dairy Cattle Association......

http://whitebelted.com/index.html


~Martin

[Anon001]

I hadn't even thought about the belteds. I see them around here from time to time and I would try them before the Dexters. I wouldn't even try the highlands.. lol

As far as goats are concerned. The butter fat will affect the flavor of the goat's milk, but I don't think it is in a bad way. I think the more butter fat the milk has, the richer the flavor. The two biggest influences in the taste of the milk is the diet and the handling. If you control the diet, keep the buck away from your milking does, make sure the milking environment is clean and get the milk refrigerated immediately, all of it will taste just fine. If you control the diet and the handling, it can taste like cow's milk. The only dairy goats I keep are purebred Nubians for several reasons. Right now there are about 22 does plus the kids. I think their milk tastes just as good as any other dairy breed. I've also never had to use a cream separator with my Nubian milk. If it sets, the cream will rise.. not as quickly as cows milk but it will rise. I will also say that Nubians are very gentle just like any goat.

Most Jerseys I've owned have always come from dairies. Usually they are the young culls. But, most of them have always milked anywhere from 5 to 7 gallons per day.... I only feed a Jersey about 2 coffee cans of a sweet feed with additional molasses (molasses sweetens the milk). I used to know how many pounds it was. But, I basically fed cracked corn with bean meal and molasses. I never buy bagged feed because bagged is more expensive. My Jerseys never have had any other "treats". They are on grass and native grass hay and that's it. So, yes it does cost more to feed a milk cow, but you get an awful lot more milk. The excess milk can fatten a hog, or raise a butcher calf, or be sold. You can always have a market for milk.

Rabbits--- I agree with others... They can be profitable but usually they aren't. They can keep you in a lot of meat. Their meat is a very good meat and a delicate meat.... . Nothing like wild rabbit.

I will add that my main income is cattle and has been for a very very long time. However, I keep increasing my goat herd because I can make more dollars per acre with goats than with calves! But, I won't replace the cattle. However, they are good together because they don't really compete for the same "food".

[fancyfowl]

I used to say a good milk cow could be central to a self sufficient life style, I would still argue that.
I think there is a book titled" The One Cow Economy"??

We were on DHIA test with the goats for awhile and I think the highest fat was the best milk. Tasting the milk direct from the udder is the best way I have found to determine that goat with the off flavored milk. Seems like every heard has one or 2 with off milk all the time, lots of factors can have a temporary effect.

[harvester]

i guess it depends on your taste buds. I cant stand a heavy milk anymore than i can stand to drink a glass of cream. its disgusting and sticks, ikity poo!!
cream harbors the heaviest flavors, concentrated flavors.
the highest butterfat producing goat that i know of is boers, to me their milk is far from tasty, ive tried several from several farms including my own and come to the same conclusion, great for butter making, horrible for drinking.
I like a light refreshing milk, not a heavy thick creamy milk. I used to put pygmy milk in the freezer untill it got slushy and drink it like a milkshake it was so sweet.
but ive never had any other goats milk that was heavy to butterfat that i would call quality table milk.
but then i dont like whole milk in the store either.

[Anon001]

i guess it depends on your taste buds. I cant stand a heavy milk anymore than i can stand to drink a glass of cream. its disgusting and sticks, ikity poo!! *

If that's the case, then you need to be buying 2% or skim milk... The butter fat only varies in dairy goats from 3.5% to 4.6% with the one exception being the Nigeria Dwarf at 6%.

cream harbors the heaviest flavors, concentrated flavors.
the highest butterfat producing goat that i know of is boers

LMBO... *Boers are NOT dairy goats. *They are a meat goat.

And my apologies for not intentionally hijacking this thread.

I like a light refreshing milk, not a heavy thick creamy milk. I used to put pygmy milk in the freezer untill it got slushy and drink it like a milkshake it was so sweet.

The ONLY thing that changes the sweetness of the milk from one goat breed to the other is the diet! *


but ive never had any other goats milk that was heavy to butterfat that i would call quality table milk.

All goat milk has heavy butterfat... there isn't a lot of difference from 3.5% to 4.6%.. some but that isn't all that much.

I think you know very little about dairy...period.

If you put goats from different breeds on the same diet, you wouldn't be able to distinguish a difference in taste. *Someone might be able to taste slightly more or less "richness" but other than that they would taste identical. *YOU, I am convinced wouldn't know the difference in any type of milk.

These points I make are not my opinion as you as you so often claim about my comments.. These are facts which is what the OP needs.... not misguided opinion from someone that has experienced goat milk from obviously bad dairy practices.

[crmemory]

I am enjoying all this info. I may stick to the original plan of trying to acquire a heifer calf as well as some goats, and see how the goats milk works out, but I think you all have almost talked me out of the Highlands. I like the idea of heritage breeds, so I will have to see what else is available in my area other than Dexters. I also did not realize the differences in goats milk.

So here's a question, since goat's milk is naturally "homogenized," can you do the same things with it that you can do with cow's milk? Can you seperate the cream as easily?

[harvester]

My apologies to crmemory. your thread is about cattle and soforth, not about who knows more than who..back on topic.

[harvester]

I am enjoying all this info. *I may stick to the original plan of trying to acquire a heifer calf as well as some goats, and see how the goats milk works out, but I think you all have almost talked me out of the Highlands. *I like the idea of heritage breeds, so I will have to see what else is available in my area other than Dexters. *I also did not realize the differences in goats milk. *

So here's a question, since goat's milk is naturally "homogenized," can you do the same things with it that you can do with cow's milk? *Can you seperate the cream as easily?
yes you can pretty much. knowing that goats milk will produce a softer cheese than cows milk will. yogurt will be much looser etc..but you can do anything with it you can do with cows milk.
with it being homogenized its easier to put it through a cream separator than to skim the top. a cream separator will extract the fat globulins that dont raise to the top. It always suprises me how much cream will come out of a couple gallons of goats milk as compared to skimming.

[crmemory]

No harm done :). *Thanks for the tip. *

I have worked with animals my whole life, both personally and professionally, and one thing I have learned is there are "standards that are to be expected among most animals of a species, and then there are the exceptions to the rule. *I have had "normal" animals, and not so normal ones. *I currently own a brain-damaged cat (though no one would know that looking at her) who does not act like a typical cat at all. *At one point, I seriously had a horse that would eat raw fish (long story), a goose who raised chicks and was best friends with a pygmy goat! *The goat also thought it was a dog, and would act like it half the time, even curling up to sleep on our doormat. *It was not uncommon to see a "trail" of animals walking around our yard that looked something like a goose, followed by chickens, followed by a goat, followed by a dog. *Along the same lines, I also had one horse that would allow the goats and chickens to stand on her back, while another of our horses would stomp and kill any animal shorter than her belly. *There are so many variables when it comes to raising animals! *I love hearing about everyone's experience, as it helps to get an overall picture of not just the average "norm" but also the exceptions to the rules!

[harvester]

I much agree!
and hearing your out of the norm animal stories..lol..made me think of a few i had.
a horse that refused to be ridden by anyone but a turkey. she would push the turkey off of the fence in a way that it either would have to fall to the ground or get on her back. she was very satisfied and passive when she had her turkey..
I had a goat born with dwarfism once. between me and the vet we kept him alive for almost a year. he was very happy and would follow me everywhere. every time i sat down he had to be in my lap. this was a full size alpine with legs roughly 8" long. sweetest goat i ever owned. he ultimately died of a heart problem.
I had a baby chick one time under the hen. while gathering the days chicks i picked him up and thought aww, its a weak one..ofcourse he died. after closer examination i found he had 4 wings and 4 legs! my vet put him formaldehyde for me. I still have him.
I had a dog that suffered from a high temp and was brain damaged. she adopted a kitten and raised it. the cat was bigger than her but she wouldnt ever go anywhere without her cat. she died at 13 and her cat died 4 months later.
Ive had chickens that have hatched duck eggs (even tho its said it cant be done..lol) never saw a hen so upset when her babies went into the duck pond.
I had a horse that protected me like a dog, once while riding, a bunch of boys cornered us against a barbed wire fence and was trying to push me off the horse and take my horse. he simply reached over and grabbed their leg and yanked them off their own horses, scared the horses off..the boys had a long walk home and the cops got them before they could make it home..lol
had a ewe that refused to breed to anything but goats.
had a pygmy who ruptured her uterus with twins, only to survive and breed and produce the next year.
Its funny how animals will do what some claim is impossible..they arent much different from us.

[crmemory]

LOL! I agree, and totally believe all of it. When I had the horse that liked to stomp and try to kill smaller animals, she was actually the one I loved to ride in the back woods. We had a problem with wild dog packs in the area, and they were scary. If we encountered a pack, all I had to do was let the horse see them, and give her some rein! It could be a rough ride, but she never failed to send those dogs running with their tails between their legs! And, fyi, she was only about 13.3 hands. Just feisty as all get out!

You mentioned your dog and cat, and it reminded me of my parents large chihuahua who took over raising a kitten. she literally stole that kitten right away from its mother. That cat grew to be twice her size, and even at a year and half old, would still try to nurse on that dog! :o

Oh, I could tell story of story of things I have seen.....brings back so many memories!

[harvester]

lol it does doesnt it? :D

[taynormom]

I like the Belties too. I have read alot on them. Very winter hardy breed,
here is a guy who has the Highland. I have talked with him and he is very nice .
http://www.footstepsfarm.com/heritagebreeds.html

[goodwifefarm]

*Also, while I plan to milk the goats, for now, I have not been impressed with the raw goats milk I have had. *It tasted like a soapy goat to me! :-/ *My hope is that I will aquire the taste and make life simpler later, but because milk is a staple in our diet,

--I have researched many of the dairy and meat goats out there, but is there a particular breed that tends to have less risk of a "goat" flavor in the milk, or is this simply a personal issue for me and my family?

*

Hi
If that goat milk tasted like a "soapy goat" then they are doing something wrong! Fresh raw goats milk shouldn't taste any different from whole cows milk from the store. I have kept my raw milk in the refrigerator for up to 10 days before it gets even a little bit of a goat flavor, and it still didn't taste bad, just a tad goaty! I have Kinder goats and I think they are just the best! Another lady in my area sells goat milk and she has Alipines. I have tasted milk from her goats and it tastes ALOT different from mine.....not sure if it is the breed or the way we feed (her's are dry lot, mine are free to roam 5 acres) but there is a marked difference.

Good luck with whatever you decide and hope you get a chance to taste some GOOD goat milk! ;D

sarah

[krapgame]

Since it's been a couple of years since this thread had any posts, I wanted to bring the subject back up. I'm looking seriously at getting a couple of Highlands later this year. We used to raise 150 or so black Angus and Herefords annually and my grand-dad kept about a 100 head dairy herd of Holsteins as I was growing up, so I have a little familiarity with cattle, but not with Highlands specifically. I've read and re-read this thread, as well as almost everything else I can find, but was curious if anyone who discussed it previously had gone forward with getting Highlands? Any experiences to share? My main concern is how well they'll handle the heat and humidity of the Ohio valley. I know they can handle the cold.

As a tangent, I also have a growing interest to train a pair of Highlands as oxen. An Amish friend kind of piqued my interest in oxen, and Highlands seemed like they might make a fun breed to train. Does anyone have any general oxen experience to pas along?

[wolfsbane]

My family had Highlanders for several years and loved them. We crossbred with beef bulls,(mostly Simental and Limosin) which made for a faster growing beefier animal, but the cows still had smaller calves and never needed any help calving. As long as we kept them outside of a corral, the disease and scours were non existent in the calves.
Our vet bills were cut substantially with the cross.

By crossing with a polled breed, and dehorning any calves with horns young, the market price wasn't really any lower than other breeds, but if they caught the long hair gene, that knocked the price down.

We sold the origninal ranch and got out of raising cows for several years, but my parents bought a small place(110 acres) and wanted the milk and meat again so without hesitation we went back to the Highlanders. We will be using a Highland bull this time as now the market for on the rail beef that is grass finished and raised without hormones or antibiotics is growing exponetially, we sell to individuals instead of through the sales ring to people who want the high quality beef of the Highlander. It is a specialty item no different than organically raised fruits or vegitables. You have to work to get the contacts and develop your market base, but the quality of the product makes that easier than you might think.

We are currently breaking a pair of Highlanders to yoke. They are such gentle, intelligent animals it isn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be. We have used draft horses for 50 years, and never thought to go to oxen as we always had the horses. We still raise Belgian horses, but the novelty of a working team of Highlanders means we can get paid to drive them pulling floats in parades, another source of income.

Currently we are using cows to work instead of steers as when you castrate a Highlander it does strange things to their horns, and the cows have the wide sweeping horns and a beautiful coat of hair that really shines when cleaned and combed. Combine that with colors such as the red, blonde, black with white horns or duns, a matched team is something to see :dirol:

They are such an ancient breed that they really catch people's attention. There are several breeders in this state that didn't exist when we were raising them before, and that makes getting new stock and blood easier.

They are light grazers, will browse and rustle up their own dinner so supplimental feeds are not as required as for beef breeds.
The long hair protects them from many flies and parasites, the hair over their eyes protects from wind, sun and flies so they have a lower incidence of cancer eye and pink eye than other breeds.

They can withstand horrendous cold and wind and rain as long as they can be out and moving so they don't get wet in a corral. Muck sticks in the hair and ruins its value to protect so feedlot situations aren't good for them. But let them out in a field to fend for themselves and you don't have to worry about them.
They don't have the subcutanious layer of fat that beef stock has because the hair is their insulation. They put the fat around their kidneys like wild animals so the meat is leaner than standard breeds.
The hair also insulates against heat somewhat as long as they can get to shade. The breed actually does well as far south as Texas and Missouri.

For a hardy animal that you can eat, milk or work, I don't think the Highlander has any equal. Add to that the fact they are gentle and intelligent, need very little care or help calving, and the lower vet bills, I could hardly reccomend a breed more for small producers or homesteaders.

[krapgame]

Thanks for the detailed response, Wolfsbane! Because of my work schedule I'm looking for as self sufficient a breed as I can find. From everything I've read, Highlands seem to fit that bill pretty well. We're looking to start with a pair of bred heifers or cows (haven't decided which yet) this year, add a bull next year and maybe a 3rd female later next year. I've got 7 acres of good Brome/Orchard grass pasture to graze them on with another 10 acres of various grass and/or fodder to rotate them to in season, so I don't think they'll be too crowded. Based on what I've read, my plan is to let them free range as much as possible, but have a shed available to them to use as needed for calving, etc.

Our intention is to raise 2-3 head per year to have beef for ourselves and a couple of friends and family, so marketability isn't much of a concern. It would be nice if we had a girl that was a good milker, but I don't really know what to expect there since there isn't much available data on Highlands for dairy purposes. I understand that they have a very rich milk, but have no idea what volume they produce. I expect it varies a bit from cow to cow, as with any other beef breed.

My biggest concern is when it comes time to butcher. So many of the cows I grew up with were so ornery that it was almost welcome to get rid of them. From what I've seen of Highlands, and especially with a small herd, I 'spect that will be a good bit tougher to do.

Thanks again! Your information has been a great help.

[annabella1]

I've never raised highland cattle, but I once got a chance to taste some and it was the best tasting beef I ever ate.

[wolfsbane]

Glad to help Krapgame.

I agree, a small herd of cattle that are gentle and fun to work with that have distinct personalities are a lot harder to process than some other beef animals. When we had some angus, it was a perverse pleasure to process them. :rolleyes:

It is easy to make pets out of the Highlanders. My father has a 2 month old calf right now that will eat alfalfa cake treats out of his hand already. If you socialize them, you won't have a problem with them.

They don't work well from horses or "cowboying", but worked on foot, moving slow, or following a bucket of cake, they are a dream to herd or move or load.
They do have horns and know how to use them, but I have never had an aggressive cow, at least not after the calf is a couple weeks old. They are very protective of their calves.
I have never been hurt by a Highlander, but when we raised beef stock, kicks, bruises, knockdowns etc were a common occurance.

We don't do a production milking on the cows, we usually have one or 2 that we take a gallon from occasionally as we don't want to waste the milk, (we don't use a lot), and the cows can still raise their calves.
The milk is very rich, great cream for butter etc, and nothing is better than fresh natural cream on fresh picked strawberries :D

I wholeheartedly agree with Annabella1, the meat is fantastic!
A Highlander can be grass finished, no need for corn to finish them.
I have heard, (from breeder books) that the English Royal Family keeps a herd of Scottish Highlander cattle at their estate at Balmoral as their personal beef supply. I can't confirm that, but after raising Highlanders, I have no problem believing it.

They are a very intelligent animal, so if you let them think through something, they will do what you want without problems. We load them in trailers by throwing in some cake and they will walk right in. No problems. We don't use grain or corn for them, they do better without it, but they do like their cake and it is great for working them, so I think it is a good investment.
They take a little longer to finish, but I think the end result is worth the wait. ;)