How do you define love?

[CarolAnn]

I'm not even sure anymore - I know what I think it SHOULD be - and it includes honor, respect, genuine liking, attraction, chemistry . . . what else?

I see other things that stand in for love, such as security, ego gratification, sexual attraction, emotional dependance, social status . . .(So I kind of know what it's not!)

[humbug]

I think love changes as you get older. When I was young it was fast and furious. Now I stand back more...and it takes me quite a while to become attached to someone. I know that I am a lot more selective now, I feel no need to be married. I know that there is nothing wrong with being single..I no longer have anything to prove to myself or anyone else. With maturity I have come to see the difference between lust and love. That first wash of infatuation can turn in to love...but don't be fooled...you can only truly love someone if you love them in spite of their flaws...and not because you don't see them.
I think companionship and similar goals and interest are important. ....Similar values...
I also think that everyones opinion of what is love is as unique and individual as they are....

[WileyCoyote]

But, humbug - can you love someone BECAUSE of their flaws?? ;D ;D
DH is the exact opposite of me; I am always the one who rushes headlong into things, he is the silent thinker. I am Tigger and he is Eeyore. What other people see as flaws in him and me we see as complementary.

I agree about the same goals, interests and values... not necessarily religious values, or even similar backgrounds; but the things each one values - like honesty, integrity, the ability to laugh at oneself, or to have a sense of humor in the darkest, most desperate times. Even the shared ability to burst into giggles during a heated argument!

[kerryms]

After my 1st divorce I prayed for a good man, I met a guy and after 3years of crap I realized one day you got what you asked for, his name was Goodman. I try to be very careful about what I pray for now :) I've rushed into relationships thinking I loved the guy, then realized he didn't love me. Love is a two way street and you have to learn to read the signs ( Are they in a different language for men?) Being able to talk to each other about everything, to laugh together,trust is one I don't get I trusted them and they didn't me. I tend to talk to everyone and they knew that going into the relationship, the last one wouldn't let me even go to my daughters, shopping unless he went or even to the Dr. He wasn't like that before we married but then turned into "Peter,Peter Pumpkin eater" but I escaped! I'm not dating now (it's been 1 1/2 years) I am writing a guy in prison who has 4 years to go,maybe by then we'll get to know each other. Love, to know each other,to rely on each other and to commit to each other.I think I'll take it one day at a time.

[Deberosa]

After my 1st divorce I prayed for a good man, I met a guy and after 3years of crap I realized one day you got what you asked for, his name was Goodman. I try to be very careful about what I pray for now :) I've rushed into relationships thinking I loved the guy, then realized he didn't love me. Love is a two way street and you have to learn to read the signs ( Are they in a different language for men?) Being able to talk to each other about everything, to laugh together,trust is one I don't get I trusted them and they didn't me. I tend to talk to everyone and they knew that going into the relationship, the last one wouldn't let me even go to my daughters, shopping unless he went or even to the Dr. He wasn't like that before we married but then turned into "Peter,Peter Pumpkin eater" but I escaped! I'm not dating now (it's been 1 1/2 years) I am writing a guy in prison who has 4 years to go,maybe by then we'll get to know each other. Love, to know each other,to rely on each other and to commit to each other.I think I'll take it one day at a time.

Oh Kerry - be very careful! I've never written to a prisoner, but he didn't get there on his ethics for sure. I was harrassed by phone calls from prisons when I first got my phone number - apparently after alterting guards it happened that my number was labeled as a woman who would talk to them. This number spread to several prisons all across the state for years before I finally got sick of the calls and one call identified the location enough that I could alert the guards. THey will do anything to get to a woman. I am aware that there may be one unjust soul stuck in prison but you would have a better chance of winning the lotto. Don't fall for those smooth talkers in there! THey have alot of time to figure out exactly how to get to a woman. You won't get to know him at all if you wrote letters for a decade - you deserve better!


Sorry if I am being a bit direct, but it sounds like you've been really burned in the past and vulnerable and that is exactly what those types prey on - try to convince yourself you deserve better because you do!

[gardenfay]

kerryms;
i don't want you to feel ganged up; but i agree with Deberosa whole-heartedly and felt led to tell you so. keep praying because God does certainly care.

[stilltryinat50]

kerryms, it has been said that it is better to be alone than to wish you were. Please be careful.

[kerryms]

Thanks to all of you. If I need to hear it,tell me! This guy is a friend of a friend and at this point in my life I can write him and be a friend. That's it. If you want to give me more advice I'd be glad to get it,I've messed up a few times and luckly I have a daughter(ms-woman) who is smarter than her Mom :)

[harrybeast]

Kerryms, I don't want to tell you what to do so take it for what it is worth. I worked in a prison for almost 7years and I can tell you that 99.9% of the time this will end with you getting emotionally, finacially, or physically hurt.

These men pray on several women and even men at the same time. Sooner or later they either get your money, use you to bring them contraband, or as a safehouse when they get out until they suck you dry.

Stay strong and I hope you find someone that will make you happy soon.

[kerryms]

Thanks harrybeast, He knew up front that I live with my daughter and have no income and that my daughter has a gun, a shovel and plenty of land if he tried to hurt me in anyway. His cell mate is a friend of the family and I hope he would let us know if the guy is a creep. I'll keep in mind what you've said. I know I've met more good people on this site than anywhere I've lived, guess I lived in alot of wrong places. After my last marriage my "friends" said we knew how he really was, when I asked why didn't you tell me? They said we didn't want to get involved. Some friends huh! So I appreciate all who put thier two cents worth in. My Mom said fine write him until it's almost time to get out then dump him!

[flatwater]

It's hard to define what love is because it's different to different people. It's easier to define what love isn't and the one thing that comes to mind is love is not being rescued. A lot of women and some men think if I can just rescues that person and change them , they will love me. NOT.
Flatwater

[kerryms]

That is so true flatwater and it took alot of years to figure that out! I am who I am and don't want to change and I don't want someone to change for me. I can be friends with someone but it will take time for anything else, and that's part of love it takes time and really getting to know them. I don't mean thru letters but thru being with them in different situations. to be able to trust and rely on them and them on you.I'm taking my time cause I don't want to go thru what I did last time. Like you said it is different for everyone.I threw my rose colored glasses away and my eyes are still adjusting so thanks for helping me to see. :)I'm not making light of this,humor has got me thru many hard times and I have to laugh it's better than crying. Thanks, Kerry

[WileyCoyote]

Flatwater hits the nail on the head as always.
We are all essentially alone in this world and in our heads. To find someone you can tolerate (who can tolerate you) isn't about NEED. It is about friendship and being able to laugh and share, good times as well as bad. NEED is desperate and aching - partnership is long-lasting and comforting.

I don't know about writing him until just before he gets out and then dumping him, either... sounds like a perfect setup for a vengeful stalker. I have only met ONE person in 50 years who didn't deserve to be in prison - he had a very low IQ and was a scapegoat for a woman who sexually abused her children. When caught, she pointed the finger at HIM instead - and he had neither the resources nor the mental capacity to defend himself. Because no one would believe that a MOTHER would trade her small children for drugs and money, he got the blame. Took me and his lawyer 9 months to get him out. So while circumstances can put someone into prison - usually it is their own fault and their own problem, and not something you can cure or fix. 9.8 times out of 10, they are in prison only because they FINALLY got caught. And what they were caught for is usually less scary than what they were really guilty of.

As long as YOU think this is all you deserve, this is all you will attract. I learned that the hard way. All of us deserve a decent, honest, fun and fun-loving partner, who works hard for not only what we both want but for the relationship. I would boldly suggest that you stop worrying about finding a mate and start worrying about finding what you want that makes YOU happy. Decent fellas are more attracted to a woman who isn't afraid to go after what she wants or to stand up for herself. Indecent fellas prey on women full of self doubt, need, and hurt.

I spent 5 years with an indecent fella, took a 2 year break from men to straighten out my own personal path, and now have spent 26 years with a decent one. I changed my attitude about myself and what I thought I needed - it is never too late. Buck up Kerry - it is hard but worth it!

[kerryms]

I told my Mom about all of your advice and she said sounds like a bunch of really good people. :)...Yes I need the down time at 47 it's about time I found myself.Spent a long time thinking last night. Kerry

[kerryms]

Still thinking . but it looks like I killed this thread!

[Deberosa]

Still thinking . but it looks like I killed this thread!


OK, time for some "tough love" here so take it in that vein please. There is no point in replying in my opinion if you consider your current path at all feasible. If you think even associating with someone in prison is in any way worth consideration, after what everyone has to say, well, there isn't much more to say is there?

As for me - I say my piece - but if someone wants to be self destructive I don't have much more so say or do with them (that goes for real life as well!). THey are an adult and I have no illusions about my ability to change their mind and have no interest in picking up the pieces afterward.

THe ball is in your court really.

[WileyCoyote]

As for me - I say my piece - but if someone wants to be self destructive I don't have much more so say or do with them (that goes for real life as well!). *THey *are an adult and I have no illusions about my ability to change their mind and have no interest in picking up the pieces afterward.

THe ball is in your court really.

Ditto, Deberosa. I once thought that folks seeking help really wanted to have the truth revealed to them so that they could change and improve their lives. What I found out is that most folks - not all, but most - seek out counseling over and over and over again with no intention of changing anything. They like the upheavals, the Sturm und Drang, the tragedy of life. They think that it makes them feel more important or feel more alive... when actually it is killing them, wearing them out, by inches, as well as the people around them.

Nevertheless, I'll start out with the belief that everyone who asks should be answered. But I won't keep picking up the pieces or sympathizing ad infinitum. Life and how we live it is a CHOICE. We can choose peace and quiet, comfort and joy - or we can choose to live our lives in tearful agony, running from one helpful person to the next, bemoaning our fates - the fates that we have brought on ourselves by our own choices.

And, back on topic - love isn't pain, isn't anger, isn't violence, isn't cruelty or nagging or whining or causing heartache just because one can. It is comfortable, quiet, and peaceably joyful. Love isn't a violently destructive forest fire, but a gently flickering, warming, comforting eternal candle in a dark room.

[kerryms]

Thank You! I guess I needed hit over the head with a hammer. My choices have been made based on my past and I need to make choices on what I want for the future. One that I can happily live with , not with hope that it might work out.
Again thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[Deberosa]

Thank You! I guess I needed hit over the head with a hammer. My choices have been made based on my past and I need to make choices on what I want for the future. One that I can happily live with , not with hope that it might work out.
* * *Again thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Good for you, now don't expect it to be easy. That guy won't drop it easily for sure so you have to stand firm. If he refuses let the guards know - don't mess with it. I don't care whose friend they claim to be - they are very dangerous!!!

Many years ago when I was a teacher a prisoner called my work phone. Very few teachers had a phone available. He was calling Chess Coaches to arrange a match between high school kids and his fellow prisoners at the State Penn in Oregon. He never anticpated finding a woman chess coach - we are few and far between but once he did he never let up with the calls. I finally told him I would ask my superintendent thinking they would absolutely nix the idea of a match with the kids and it would end - he actually thought it was a good idea and even helped to chaperone. Well we took 6 kids into that prison (all boys) and 6 chaperones including myself. I was scared spitless. I don't think any of those kids will ever end up in jail after that experience - those were nasty nasty types. One was the I-5 killer that terrroized raped and murdered many women up and down I 5 in the late 70's early 80's - what an evil look that guy had! OK, so we got through it and you know what - that prisoner got my home phone number!!! How did he do that??? I never gave it to him!!!! and they don't give up!!! I had just gotten a divorce at that same time and within few months of that had a different name and was living in a different state so he didn't track me there - but that's how dangerous this can be - they don't care how they do it they get an in any way they can and don't let up. My ex moved back into the house when I left (gave him the house) with the same phone number so guess he had to deal with the guy.