Man use of substances

[FZRaven]

Why do humans feel the need to indulge in substances? Be it one's such as caffeine, or the harder substances such as Cocaine.

Most all of us have used substances, from cigarette's to alcohol. Some of us have used other substances, what some people might label as "bad" substances such as cannabis.

The question I ask is why do we feel the need to use them? Is it a way to escape the normal everyday life and if it is why do we feel the need to escape it?

[greenetuckian]

Perhaps you should rephrase your question to clarify what it is you wish to discuss. Would you include someone taking morphine to "escape" extreme pain? How about someone clinically depressed taking an antidepressant to "escape" a crushing feeling of hopelessness? Similarly would someone who took up smoking to fit in with a group or someone sharing a drink with friends as people who were trying to "escape"?

The question is too broad.

[333]

Peace,

The difference would be temperance vs addiction.

It is your body and your choice what to put in to it, coincidentally all substances are toxic to our bodies, from the air we breath to what ever we ingest, we filter it plain and simple. So in the end it is not really a need to do it, its a choice we make, unless your an addict.

333

[flatwater]

I hunt and fish and walk the outdoors. This gives me a high on endorphins. I like it because it makes me feel good. Sex does the same thing but at my age I have had to limit it to 4 times a week because to much of a good thing is not good for you. I have NEVER did any drugs that were not prescription. Never felt a need. Oops, if you consider alcahol a drug then I confess but not to excess. Is getting drunk when in the service an excess?

[FZRaven]

Perhaps you should rephrase your question to clarify what it is you wish to discuss. Would you include someone taking morphine to "escape" extreme pain? How about someone clinically depressed taking an antidepressant to "escape" a crushing feeling of hopelessness? Similarly would someone who took up smoking to fit in with a group or someone sharing a drink with friends as people who were trying to "escape"?

The question is too broad.
Sorry I was meaning for non medical purposes, I should have been more clear.

[FZRaven]

I hunt and fish and walk the outdoors. This gives me a high on endorphins. I like it because it makes me feel good. Sex does the same thing but at my age I have had to limit it to 4 times a week because to much of a good thing is not good for you. I have NEVER did any drugs that were not prescription. Never felt a need. Oops, if you consider alcahol a drug then I confess but not to excess. Is getting drunk when in the service an excess?
Yes alcohol is a drug, it's by far the most used and abused of all drug. It's also a lot more dangerous than some illegal drugs.

[greenetuckian]

Sorry I was meaning for non medical purposes, I should have been more clear.


From my own observations it would seem to me that more than simply escape is that many mind altering substances impede our inhibitions allowing us to connect or perceive to connect with others in a way that may not usually be possible. If wonder if that may be because we all are basically lonely, some of us more so than others. These substances offer some ability to abate that loneliness.

[rivahmom]

The impeding of our natural inhibitions by many drugs may also help deal with traumatic experiences and psychological barriers. If I recall correctly, many psychedelics where first used by psychiatrists to help the mentally ill. Even in ancient cultures, the experience was given with the assistance of a shaman and used to mark important rituals or to provide a path for the one receiving the “treatment”

[rice paddy daddy]

The answer can be found in the book "Alcoholics Anynomous", known affectionately as The Big Book.

[FZRaven]

The answer can be found in the book "Alcoholics Anynomous", known affectionately as The Big Book.
Sorry but AA is nothing but a new religion, I've know people that have gone through it. Further more recent studys have found that the faith component of AA actually hurts the recovery process.

[FZRaven]

The impeding of our natural inhibitions by many drugs may also help deal with traumatic experiences and psychological barriers. *If I recall correctly, many psychedelics where first used by psychiatrists to help the mentally ill. *Even in ancient cultures, the experience was given with the assistance of a shaman and used to mark important rituals or to provide a path for the one receiving the “treatment”
Yes many psychedelics are very helpful in the treatment of mental disorders. It's sad that the government has basically outlawed any research on them. MDMA has been shown to be very effective in the treatment of PDSD, but the government still continues to stonewall real research into it. Most research has to be done in other countrys because the government will not allow them here.

[rice paddy daddy]

Sorry but AA is nothing but a new religion, I've know people that have gone through it. Further more recent studys have found that the faith component of AA actually hurts the recovery process.
Whatever. ::) ::) ::)

[EarthMama]

The question I ask is why do we feel the need to use them? Is it a way to escape the normal everyday life and if it is why do we feel the need to escape it?



I don't feel I "need" to use them... I just enjoy using them. No deep psychological explanation from this side.

Kind of like a roller coaster ride. You don't need to ride one... but it's fun when you do.

;D

[rice paddy daddy]

Sorry but AA is nothing but a new religion, I've know people that have gone through it. Further more recent studys have found that the faith component of AA actually hurts the recovery process.
So, you're going on hearsay.
The program works for atheists too.
Can you point me to these "recent studies"?
You are welcome to your opinion of course, no matter how ill informed it is.

[FZRaven]

So, you're going on hearsay.
The program works for atheists too.
Can you point me to these "recent studies"?
You are welcome to your opinion of course, no matter how ill informed it is.

Spiritual direction in addiction treatment: Two clinical trials (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T90-4T2RYTG-2&_user=6806842&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d &view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0& _userid=6806842&md5=59d703321e8a0ea1b95fda594df80e f4)

Abstract

Spirituality has long been regarded as an important component of recovery from addiction. This article reports the findings of two controlled trials of spiritual direction as an adjunct in addiction treatment. In Study 1, 60 participants were randomly assigned to receive or not receive a 12-session manual-guided spiritual guidance (SG) intervention during and after inpatient treatment, in addition to treatment as usual (TAU). In Study 2, two cohorts of 40 each received TAU without or with SG during their inpatient stay. In both trials, contrary to prediction, SG had no effect on spiritual practices or substance use outcomes at any follow-up point. At the first follow-up in Study 1 only, those randomly assigned to spiritual direction unexpectedly showed significantly less improvement on depression and anxiety, relative to TAU controls. Limitations and implications for treatment are discussed.

[rice paddy daddy]

It works for me, and that's all I really care about. But then I believe in an "invisible being in the sky" too. It may come as a shock to you, but I personally don't give a flip about what you think.
However there may be some person reading this thread who has a substance abuse problem, and I can tell them, from PERSONAL experience that the AA program is not a cult, or religion, and that it WORKS for those who want it.
I am happy, joyous and free.

[333]

Peace,

The purpose or paradigm of "AA" is not the issue folks, and as a courteousy we should not berate for the sake of it.

Objectivity is required for philosophical ends.

The most abused and used drug on this planet is caffine, followed by nicotine, cocaine, opiates,alcohol,amphetamines,barbituates,cannabis, inhalants(glue,paint,gasoline).

I wonder about the use of plastics substances, it is certainly a carcinogen, yet we have wall to wall carpet(naasty), plastic cup and dishes, food storage, clothes and on and on.

Perhaps this is having an effect on the population as well. similar to a substance abuse in many respects.

333

[EarthMama]

Peace,

The purpose or paradigm of "AA" is not the issue folks, and as a courteousy we should not berate for the sake of it.

Objectivity is required for philosophical ends.

The most abused and used drug on this planet is caffine, followed by nicotine, cocaine, opiates,alcohol,amphetamines,barbituates,cannabis, inhalants(glue,paint,gasoline).

I wonder about the use of plastics substances, it is certainly a carcinogen, yet we have wall to wall carpet(naasty), plastic cup and dishes, food storage, clothes and on and on.

Perhaps this is having an effect on the population as well. similar to a substance abuse in many respects.

333

Going along these same lines, for the sake of conversation.... I wonder who decided what "drugs" were and who decided that "addictions" were bad things? You know what I'm saying here? I'm not talking about heroin addicts who obviously are killing themselves with the stuff.... I'm more talking about the caffeine and alcohol and cannibis and that sort of thing. Didn't I read somewhere that the Native Indians used to smoke *something* in a peace pipe and even chew some sort of leaves to get "high" once in awhile?

I'm not explaining myself very well, I'm afraid, but what I guess I'm trying to say is... who was it that decided that getting high was a bad thing? Was it when people got high and then got behind the wheel of a car, that it became bad? Was it when people got high and then murdered people, that it became bad?

I'd often wondered this. Who are the people who determine things to be "bad" or to be the "standard" or whatever?

Who is it that determines what a 2nd grader should know by the time they end 2nd grade... or they are doomed for life (or so it seems, if you talk to the teachers!!).

A curious line of thought, I believe.

[FZRaven]

Peace,

The purpose or paradigm of "AA" is not the issue folks, and as a courteousy we should not berate for the sake of it.

Objectivity is required for philosophical ends.

The most abused and used drug on this planet is caffine, followed by nicotine, cocaine, opiates,alcohol,amphetamines,barbituates,cannabis, inhalants(glue,paint,gasoline).

I wonder about the use of plastics substances, it is certainly a carcinogen, yet we have wall to wall carpet(naasty), plastic cup and dishes, food storage, clothes and on and on.

Perhaps this is having an effect on the population as well. similar to a substance abuse in many respects.

333
Yes, I had intended to post something along the same lines today. No need to get away from the original topic to much.

[333]

Peace,

In all reality, you fathers/ mothers and grandfathers/ grandmothers/ and their parents (presuming they were even in america) *"made " these choices for us. Their omission or ignorance, combined with, radio, newsprint and their own set of moral imperatives allowed the legislation to pass and the laws to take effect.

Moral imperatives how ever are a "tricky" subject.

Majority of folks base their morals on their "spirituality", and of course what they have experienced in their life.

Then of course I personally am convinced that the "idiot box" or the pinnacle of modern circus, the television is the winner hands down for "programming".

In reallity, 1935 was the banner year for the war on drugs,
All the left over "offices" from the prohibition era needed new enimies or face unemployment.

Needless to say a huge smear campaign in the papers, a movie from hollywood, and a farce of a senate hearing on the subject, (the transcripts were so pityfull) and they had their regulation and taxation of Cannibis Hemp. Cocaine , opiates and their derivatives were under the FDA I believe and were widely used for medicinal purposes, the military had been handing it out for sometime, still the knowledge of these substances and their science was largely unknown.

After that the next banner years furthering the war on drugs were the Nixon years.

In the end the real impetus for this war on your choices in nothing more than money, money to fight that war and hire folks that need a nice state career. So I guess it isnt really and educated moral choice this legislation.

333

[EarthMama]

Peace,

In all reality, you fathers/ mothers and grandfathers/ grandmothers/ and their parents (presuming they were even in america) "made " these choices for us. Their omission or ignorance, combined with, radio, newsprint and their own set of moral imperatives allowed the legislation to pass and the laws to take effect.

A well-written and well-explained piece, 333. I truly had never thought of things this way before.

Now, I guess the next question is... how do we reverse these "choices" that were made for ourselves? Or is it hopeless by this point?

[flatwater]

Nothing is hopeless unless one decides that they can beat an addiction through shear will power. The first step for an individual is to admit they have a problem and stop blaming your family tree and other outside influence. Without taking responcibility for our actions , then it is as hopeless as it gets. I have dealt with thousands of different types of addicts and most all of them will blame just about anything for their addictions except themselves.

[EarthMama]

Nothing is hopeless unless one decides that they can beat an addiction through shear will power. The first step for an individual is to admit they have a problem and stop blaming your family tree and other outside influence. Without taking responcibility for our actions , then it is as hopeless as it gets. I have dealt with thousands of different types of addicts and most all of them will blame just about anything for their addictions except themselves.

I appreciate everything you've said here, Flatwater, for sure. But that's not really what I was asking. ;)

I asked who exactly it was who made the decision that certain things were addictive and that addictions were necessarily wrong. 333 explained that it was our forefathers (and mothers, etc.) who made these decisions for us... meaning for all the generations to follow via legislation in government. So then I asked how we can change these decisions that have been made for us... or is it hopeless... meaning... are these decisions "on the books" now and can never be changed?

But I enjoyed reading your post tho and agree with it. It's just not quite the subject I was on.

[flatwater]

Sorry, I thought I had given at least one answer to it , because I don't believe that any decisions have been made there fore there was nothing to change except our own attitudes to except responcibility for our own actions.

[EarthMama]

Sorry, I thought I had given at least one answer to it , because I don't believe that any decisions have been made there fore there was nothing to change except our own attitudes to except responcibility for our own actions.

Sorry for misunderstanding you, Flatwater. I think we're on the same page... but just talking about different subjects. You were talking about being "hopeless" as in beating an addiction. I was talking about being "hopeless" as in changing laws or undoing laws.

Our forefathers and mothers have indeed made the decisions as to what is considered "bad" for us... and that's why the laws are on the books as they are:

1. Certain things can only be obtained by a doctor's prescription.

2. Certain things can not be legally purchased at all.

3. Certain things can only be purchased by those 21 years of age and older.

4. Certain things can't be purchased on Sundays.

... and on and on.

I was just posing the idea (for conversation's sake) of talking about who decided what was bad for us and why they decided it.

For example, I don't have the freedom at all to decide if I need to purchase a stronger pain medication for myself or not. My doctor has to make that decision and then my pharmacy will "allow me" to buy stronger pain medication for myself, with my doctor's prior approval (aka: a prescription). That's not being real "free", if you ask me.

If I decide I want to get a little "tipsy" one Saturday evening, the government has basically told me that I'm allowed to get tipsy using alcohol but I'm not allowed to get tipsy smoking marijuana. Who exactly made that decision for me... and why? Who took that freedom of choice away from me?

Of course I have the option of breaking the law and going to jail, if I want to use something without authorization or without it being legal, but I don't want to do that. I'd like to operate within the law. But if I do, then some of my freedoms (aka: being responsible for myself) have been taken away.

I guess that's kind of where I was wanting to lead my conversation. So, as I said, we're on the same page but not really talking about the same subject, per se.

;D

[333]

Peace,

Redress of grievances is assured by the constitution, see first amendment, but the question still is how to redress.

The gathering of people for the inguration was and is a perfect example of how to get their attention. Even If that many folks gather as such under another banner for redress, success is not certain, and ultimately the power resides in the congress, your representatives and senators.

Making them obey the will of the people is a whole nuther monster, even though the 9th and 10th amendments place the end powers of liberty in the hands of the people, the way we allow the chosing of our congress needs serious review. Certain other amendments took that power away from the people.

In the end though we need folks to come together, united an move as one, but.....folks can't seem to stop hating eachother over silly nomers and affiliations, left, right, black , white, liberal, conservative, Republicant, Demorats, and on and on.

Stop the hate and fear, American first, diverse heritage second, then force them to redress with the power of our minds and mouths and masses, if necessary the power of our money, or the with holding there of, if that fails we still have our muscle and muzzles.

imho of course.

333

[EarthMama]

In the end though we need folks to come together, united an move as one,

I wouldn't hold your breath, 333. I know I sure ain't gunna hold mine.

[333]

Peace,

Heh Heh, the glass was half full this day, cant always promise a half full glass day.

Hope begets Hope, Hate begets Hate. At least some say that is the way of it.

333