Ham Radio Equip

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

Again, to not overload the License and Tech threads...

After much research, I finally settled on my first rig. An Icom IC-T7H. It's a 2M/440 dual band HT (hand held) at 5W out. I also ordered a RH77CA telescoping antenna to replace the rubber duck. Of course, I also needed to get a spare batt and a sweet little (actually, impressively Large) batt charger, the C777 Plus II by MAHA. You can't change my mind, now. I already hit the 'Submit Order' button. ;D
You guys know that I'm not yet licensed and I promise to keep my finger off of the trigger until I am.

Varg and Msta: what are you guys looking at? Do you have Repeaters in your areas? Joined a Club, yet?

Now, a Q? for the more knowledgable operators. (Darn, I knew this was gonna happen - multiple rigs) I still want a Mobile 2M that can double as a base. Dual w/ 440 would be great. Around 50-65W out w/ WX. Any recommendations? I'd like to keep it under $200 so I don't have to sell a kayak.

Rob

[wy0mn]

What kind of kayak? ;)

[logansackett]

Howdy, whats a good book to start learning about ham radios? The ARRL ham radio license book looked good. Right now I have a cobra 29 ltd, a set of motorola talk abouts, and a 1000 channel digital trunking scanner. I think it's time to move up to the next level.

[logansackett]

Is a handheld powerful enough to get to other states?

[msta999]

I'm no expert, but as I understand it, it is if you have a repeater near by, but someone else will have to verify this. I have a friend who is a part time ham and he recomended I just start with a small hand held. Said if I wanted to comunicate farther, there are a couple retrans sites in the area, to use.

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

wy0mn. Why you gotta be so mean? :P I had already planned to sell a boat anyway. I can only paddle one at a time. The ones I've found that meet my wants will cost closer to $300, tho. Two area clubs are having a Swap Meet on 6-7-08. Maybe I can pick up a used rig there?

Logan! Be careful, bro. It's a very venomous bug, that Ham Bug 8) . ARRL ( www.arrl.org ) puts out many good books.
The ARRL Operating Manual is a good one to start with. Check your library, they may have an older one to give you a taste before you buy.
For more info, dig around in the threads 'Ham Tech Issues' and 'Ham License'. Lex (wy0mn), Rich and others have offered tons of great info on the subject.

Can a HT reach other states? Certainly! You can remove the antenna and hook it up to a coax feedline to a much larger antenna. Cool, huh!!?

[wy0mn]

You can usually trust locals, they don't want to get a bad rep for selling junky 'boat anchors'.

Be aware however that there are many 'mods' that can be performed to rigs by the completely incompetent. I knew a fellow who could pass any test you threw at him, yet he soldered like a blind ten thumbed monkey!

I understand also that heavy smoking does something detrimental to electronics. This was probably more true in the days of tube type radios than today, but you may wanna research it more.

Now its my turn to ask advice if I may?
I have a Verizon LG-VX3300 cell phone (800-900MHz), I've paired it with a Wilson directional antenna (14db gain) of matching frequency range. From my Ranch I get full scale reception but I can't call out.
Straight line distance is probably 50mi, but the cell tower is somewhere on Elk Mtn (line of sight).
I'm thinking that the phone itself lacks the output to 'hit' the tower, but the tower is strong enough to hit me. If this is the case I'll need a booster (amplifier) on on my end.
If any of you have another explanation please contribute.

Thanks
Lex

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

Lex, why not just buy an old pay-phone (they're going cheap as the phone companies are phasing them out of service) and put it in the kitchen? ;D You asked for it! :)

I get the feeling that this is a test but, if not, here goes my limited radio education guess (yes folks, your cell phone is on a UHF radio band)...

I'm not familiar with your phone but, I wonder how you managed to connect it to a coax? Is it BNC? If you did, I doubt that the little batteries in there would even produce a SWR in the vacinity of 10,000,000 : 1. Or even 1 : 10,000,000. ??? Methinks your rig needs a Booster.

Does the tower also support 2M thru 33cm relay? If so, why not dig your rig out of the box and use that to make a patch?

[wy0mn]

Realtime prob, but you got an +A for effort.
SWR is power reflected back down the coax (& eaten by ground or dissipated as heat) due to antenna/coax mismatch, damaged coax/antenna, etc. Its usually shown as a ratio. A ratio of 1:1 is a perfect match, what gets sent out, goes out; and isn't sent back down the gullet for regurgitation. Most rigs can't deal with a mismatch greater than 3:1

I bought this http://www.alternativewireless.com/cellular-antennas/wilson-antennas/wilson_yagi_antenna.html to use on the Ranch.
Cell phone has a socket for an external antenna plug inside the back cover (this model). Many phones are enabled with this attribute.
We've been using this identical setup here in Medicine Bow for the past two years, landlines are 'rotten' & old. The only diff was the antenna manufacturer. Last time I bought a Kumaar from India.
The link above will also give you lateral access to their cellular amplifier, $180 I believe for a 3w model.
My 12x20 cabin kit arrived today, see it from inside the garage? I gotta get busy on the Ranch, but I'd love to have reliable comms just in case I fall off a ladder or something. Its 70mi to the nearest hospital.
Do not believe this repeater is patch capable. I really don't wanna hook 'em up mobile again on these long dusty backroads.
Tnx
de wy0mn/7
ar
http://a867.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/26/l_1bd09b4b576d13627fa45920da699dea.jpg

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

Lex! That looks just like my 12x16 when it arrived. The wife calls it a 'shed' and I have to correct her and say 'shop'. Afterall, it's floored, insulated and powered for lights and A/C. A regular Pegboard Heaven! :) In the next couple of weeks I'll be adding a 5' lean-to on the long side to cover firewood, riding mower and etc. Will be adding a gutter to that side to collect rain into a bbl.

Sorry I couldn't offer more clues on the phone but thx for the A for Effort. It made me think (and still is) 'outside the box'. I had no idea that a phone had that jack. I'll have to look at my daughters phone. I hate phones ;D ...always ringing.

Stay off of ladders, old man. ;) We need you here!
Something is new about your sign-off. de? Is that CW? ar? What am I looking at?

[wy0mn]

Well... its used to simulate CW, (de) is simply 'this is' or 'from' and (ar) is most often used when your done transmitting to let the other op know its now his turn but probably not the end of the conversation.

Rain & tornadoes yesterday, weatherbug says rain all weekend! This is WY for goodness sake, wheres the drought?

I'd hate to have three days off & not drive a single nail.
Yup, they sell it as a storage shed! But after adding real windows/doors, insulation, plumbing & wiring. Voila! Its a cabin. I can trade the paint for the color of my choice.
I'm thinking three small windows, just enough for daytime lighting, allows a breeze in summer, and just barely large enough to be used as an emergency exit. Retain as much heat in the winter as possible.
May try to brick or block it, at least partially, next year. Although I truly think we'll all have more serious things to worry about in 12mo than appearances.

[Swede]

Hi guys. Long time no write. Sorry.

Lex, w/ regard to that cell phone, my guess is that you are losing most of your power through a severe impedance mismatch. You know how bad coax losses are in the VHF/UHF range, even with a good standing wave ratio.

The million dollar question: What impedance is the output through the antenna jack on the phone designed for? I don't suppose the manual for the phone provides any clue, does it?

Swede

[wy0mn]

Hi Swede, welcome back.
Manual for the phone has been eaten by our new residence. Googles haven't been much of a help in the specific data department.
Phone & antenna are 800-900MHz. The Wilson antenna is matched with Wilson marketed coax from alternativewireless.com the following is from their website:

Wilson 20 ft. RG-58 "N" Male / FME F
$31.95
Wilson 20 Foot RG-58 extension cable with N male on one end and FME Female on the other. 2.4 db loss. Made for Wilson Yagi Antennas.

Various cellular gurus recommended this specific antenna for this model, but we're both aware that many gurus have smoked too much lotus while contemplating their navel.

I'll keep eSearching for the data on the phone, you may very well have hit the nail on the head. However, all the cell antennas I've found are 50 Ohm.

Thanks Swede.
Lex

[Swede]

That's too funny.

Yeah, I noticed that the antenna was designed with an impedance of 50 ohms. Does it have any sort of gamma match?

I don't think my UHF SWR meters will even give an accurate reading at 900 Mhz. I think they are only good up to 5 or 6 hundred Mhz.

Somebody must make something for use in the 1.2 Ghz band, but I bet they cost a fortune. Likewise wth the commercial equipment designed for cell frequencies.

I'll poke around and see if there's a simple homebrew meter described anywhere. I'll bet you'd be the only guy on the block with one...

Swede

[wy0mn]

I'm betting that since the phone works on my other 50 ohm cell yagi, any mismatch would be due to a mismanufactured or damaged part; rather than a standard "oops".
With all the other antennas that I've googled being 50 ohm, I'm probably standing on the brink, but I'd guess most if not all cell phones are 50 ohm.
I'll bring a Fluke home from work next week and check everything out. (My multimeter is AWOL.)

"A Gamma match feed system is used for low loss and wide bandwidth. The antenna impedance is 50 ohms."

Lex

[Florida_boy]

Guys, if you're wanting to get started in Ham radio a 2M/440 handi talki is a good way to start. I'd be real careful about those long extending antennas for your handi. They give you an awlful long whip to hit something with which will "transmit" the shock right down to the radio and possibly break something. A better sugestion might be to get an adapter that will allow you to plug your HT into a standard 2M antenna. That's how I got started. I used a mag mount antenna on top of the car and talked through a HT. The main thing the mag mount does is to increase your efficiency. A rubber duck on top is little more than a dead short with no gain at all due to it's lack of a ground plane.
You'll learn a lot in short order if you start building your own stuff and about the best starter project I know of is a J-pole antenna. You can find directions for them on the web. You can make a really nice one from TV flat line and mount it inside a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe. Put a loop on top of the PVC and you can hoist this home made antenna as high as your feed line allows.
Hope that gets you started, 73's

KE4VBB

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

Hey, FLboy. Thx for the info. I did get an alt antenna with my radio but it's not telescopic. Just a bit taller than my duck. I had some extra cash to spend on a new interest, ya know? ;)
I'm very fortunate to have my best-friends Dad (whom I have known for 28+ years) as my Elmer but as he is a new widower, he's hard to get ahold of. He stays very busy with VFD and ARES. I can understand. You guys may have to be my Step-Elmers! ;)
The antenna that you described sounds good! I've been looking for projects.
I hope to post my Call Sign for all of you soon. Maybe we can get a Net started? I'm seeing that local Repeaters are linked to other Repeaters 50 miles nearby. How far can that go?

[Florida_boy]

Distance with VHF radios is basically line of sight. There are two things that affect how well the signal carries though, power and height. You still can't talk over the horizon unless there are ducting conditions in place. BTW you mentioned 5 W output. that can be somewhat misleading. My first HT which I still have is a Standard C158A They list it as having 5W output as well. Yes and no... it's only 5W if you either have an aux. power source (external) or an optional battery much pak larger than the one that comes with the radio. Most HT's will put out 2.5W and 1W depending on the power setting without extra power.
Height and antenna gain are the easiest to come by to boost your distance. Different repeaters have their antennas at different heights to maximize distance. You can get an ARRL repeater handbook that will tell you almost every repeater in the U.S. there will also be information about those repeaters you will need such as the access tones and if they are public or private.
When I was running a 2M mobile rig in my road tractor ( I'm a truck driver) There was a repeater I would talk on sometimes in Holiday, Fl. that would reach all the way to south Ga if the Ga station had a base station with a good beam.
In my road tractor I could run 25W just fine, but if I went to 50 I would start having problems with onboard computers in the truck. 50W was never really needed to be honest about it.
There are practice tests you can take on the net now days. I would suggest taking those tests over and over until you pass with at least a 90% grade. Then go find a testing session while it's still fresh in your mind. Listen all you can in the mean time you'll learn a lot by that. The things you don't fully understand will also become more clear to you as you get on the air and start using them.
all you need do is ask,

KE4VBB

[Fred_47460]

When I got started I thought a 2M/440Mhz HT would be the thing to have. After buying one I found that I could make very few repeaters unless I was in a big town (NOT a place I really WANT to be). As I started to make on-the-air friends I found that the range of an HT just did not cut it, and there is very little action on our 440Mhz systems....so I invested in a 2M mobile with a good permanently mounted antenna. I've since bought/sold/traded a BUNCH of radios....HF/VHF/UHF...and I'll bet I haven't used an HT in 5 years....still got em....but they were a total waste of my money. My experience may not be the same as yours....it kinda depends on the area you live and/or USE your radio equipment.
For not much more money than a mega-HT-dualbander you can buy something like a Yaesu FT-857D and have 2M, 440Mhz, 6M, and all HF bands......you can also use that same radio to monitor AM, FM, and Shortwave Broadcast bands!!

73....de....Fred

[ShieldWolf]

KC4ALF Here.
OMD I hit reapeters from my QTH here in the Shenandoah Valley in VA., MD.,W.VA. and PA. when conditions are right. Of course being on the side of a Mntn. helps quite a bit. I carry a henheld when walking i the woods but use a 5/8 wave not the rubber ducky it comes with since you'r basically talking into a dummy load.
Boat anchors are good! All of my HF equipment dates from the late 30's through the early 70's. WY0MN is correct on smoke, when getting ready to refurbish an older rig I strip it to the chasis and hit it with windex and warm water and the amount of gooey tar and crud that comes out is amazing! Rig then sits in hot sun to dry out and goes into a room with dehumidifier to make sure transformer will dry out.
As for a good mobile/base rig. The Kenwood 2530-50A series from the 80's are good and are plentiful, (I have 3). Just make sure you find one with the optional tone generator. (I use and outboard home brew, but unless you'r into building already installed much easier.
By the way main HF rig for SSB here is Heathkit Marauder xmtr and reciever is hallicrafters SX-101 with home brew T/R switch. For CW work, Heath DX-20 xmter and Venerable BC-348 doing recieving duty.
Good luck OMD. Get you'r ticket.

73,
KC4ALF