Ham Tech Issues

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

I decided to start this thread to deal with the Technical side of Ham and not overload the Ham License thread.

The 'Brain-picking' shall now commence.. *;D

I'm narrowing down the equipment that I'd like to start with. I've been advised (by a guy trying to sell one) to start with a 2meter VHF/UHF Mobile (I want Mobile). Lex; u mentioned elsewhere that 2m isn't much better at distance than a CB unless through a Repeater? The club owns a local repeater that I'll have access to when I'm licensed.

My Q is this; Does the repeater rely on local AC power? If so, then my 2m Mobile is basically an expensive CB if the power goes out, correct?
If that's the case, what should I get for reliable comms in a 100 mile radius? Would that require a HF transceiver?

Edit: Speak English, please? I'm still a newbie! :)

[wy0mn]

Its unlikely that the repeater is powered by AC only. Most likely it has an UPS which is DC. Optimally it wouldn't be on the grid at all, but receive its juice from solar or wind!
Except for rare circumstances 2m is indeed line-of-sight, something less than 30mi, just to the horizon, +/- a couple of miles if I recall correctly.
Hundred mile radius is tough! The 'skip zone' is too far for VHF/UHF and too close for HF. Thats why we count on repeaters.
Nothing is 100% reliable, 100% of the time. We just allow ourselves more options than are available to the majority.
How'd the test go?

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

Nothing is 100% reliable, 100% of the time. We just allow ourselves more options than are available to the majority.
How'd the test go?

The test didn't go. By now, u prob read in the other thread that the VE had a mental lapse. It's okay, though. He's pushing 80 and I'm these days at 42.

Thx for the reply (in laymans terms). I think I did hear that our repeater had a back-up. That would be like a UPS for a computer on a much larger scale? Gotcha! I think I also heard that it has a diesel gen.

Another Q. Why would HF be too close at 100 miles? Is there someting that I'm not reading? I hear you that there's no one 'Fits All' solution. That's my dillima (and that's not how u spell dillima).

[wy0mn]

At most useable HF frequencies the ionized atmospheric layers we use aren't opaque enough to reflect signals back into our laps.
Imagine a mirror.
You can make banking shots off it all day long, but hit it directly and it shatters; the projectile passes thru. So although you can bounce a shot into the next room you can't bounce one back at yourself. Not a perfect example, but as close as I can come up with.
Lex

[Swede]

The example that Lex gave you is a peach.

When I get back to work, or unless someone beats me to it, I'll send you a link to a site that posts the MUF (maximum usable frequency) for transmissions from point A to point B.

The maximum usable frequency is the highest frequency that will be reflected back to earth between those two points. *If you use a higher frequency it will either punch through the ionosphere or not bend sharply enough to facilitate communication at that short distance.

You will quickly deduce that 75, 80, or 160 meters will work best for what you are proposing. *This is the reason that many, many emergency nets are convened on 75 meters for phone and 80 meters for CW. *Between the ground wave and the sky wave (ignore these terms for now) you will pretty much have your 100 mile radius covered.

As Lex has already warned, there are no absolutes with regard to propagation. *You will love low band (75, 80, and 160 meters) at night in the wintertime. *In the summertime you will be cursing and swearing (assuming you are given to such outbursts) as you try to hear what is being said or sent through a never ending stream of static crashes and atmospheric interference. *This is after you have gone to the trouble of figuring out how to erect an antenna for these frequencies. *(They are very long or very tall and finding guy points and supports is challenging on most lots.)

Care to guess which form of transmission works best under horrible atmospheric conditions? *Hint: *You'll want to learn it even though you aren't tested on it anymore.

Too much at once, I know. *I didn't want to give you my opinion without stating a reason.

If mobile is a must, then I would get a mobile VHF/UHF rig. *Then I would start looking for a used HF rig on QRZ, craigslist, eHam, etc. *

BTW, mobile HF can be frustrating and low band mobile HF is the toughest of all. *I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner.

Best wishes on the exam.

Swede

[Swede]

It's actually a program that you can download for free. Here's the link:

http://www.qsl.net/w6elprop/

Hope this helps answer your questions.

Swede

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

Thx for the link, Swede. And yes, I could relearn CW easily. I knew it way long ago as a BSA.
(I wonder if that's where C.W. McCall got his name? *;) )

Guys - do me a fave or 3, please? Here http://k5ozk.ham-radio-op.net is my clubs site. Check out the Repeater Link (it IS solar backup, btw) and tell me what u think of the rigs at www.memphisamateur.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCAT&Category=2. I like the Ken and the Yas but I'd love to hear your thoughts as far as compatibility. Is 2m same as VHF/UHF?
Darn. I can see it now. I'm gonna wind up with 3 or 4 rigs, ain't I? >:(

Rob

[SCRich]

Kenwood, Yaseu they are almost all the same. Just a few features here and there that you need to look closely at and see if they fit you better. I own various brands and am not a brand snob like some people are but I do tend to like and buy more Kenwood. ICOM also is good, works good but various models are a PIA to operate.

Saw the link to Memphis Amateur Radio Supply, unless you must go there and pick it up you can probably do much better in price and get whatever they have at Ham Radio Outlet. They have 12 stores across the country http://www.hamradio.com and the equipment is usually received in 3 shipping days if you request it from the closest store. They will usually beat any valid price by 5-10% if you tell them where it was quoted from, plus NO TAX! ;D Orders over $100 shipped free, I do not work for them but have used them for umpteen years.

VHF/UHF means that it is at least 2 bands wraped up in one both 2M (VHF) and 440 (UHF). Depending on where you expect to use the radio I highly suggest one of those so you will not need to go out and purchase another radio. Note that some brands have VHF/UHF radios that actually cover 10M (28MHz FM) 6M (52MHz FM) and both 2 and 440. Those are quad band radios, Yaseu has one and Kenwood recently discontinued one model that was a 3 band radio, came with 2 bands but you could add modules for 10M, 6M, 220MHz or even 1.2 GHz. The base radio came 2/440 or 2/220, maybe even 2/1.2Ghz and they can be found on the internet used but expensive, it is a very well liked radio with features that no one else has today.

1 more thing on dual band. If your local public safety is on UHF or 800 Mhz conventional you can usually use it as a scanner also. If you only have a 2M radio and they are on another band then you are SOL.

Rich K4GPS

[wy0mn]

Good info, and refreshing my jaded old memory! :)

I'm no brand snob either, but I got the IC707 "way back when"... cause at the time it was more user friendly than many of the others; fewer multi-function knobs & buttons. (It reminded me of the Atlas radios.) BUT I wouldn't recommend this outdated model now, upgrades for it are expensive! On the other hand... I've never felt a true need for narrower CW filtering nor 10m FM!
Swede, Rich, is anyone actually using the 'new' band on HF? Whadda they call it, 60m?
Ditto on HF mobiling, some bands are a beast; but 30m QRP bicycling was a blast!
I'm planning my antenna farm for the ranch, aka that patch of cactus I own. What HF antennas do you guys use?
73
wy0mn/7

[Koolibri_Rantso]

I have an Icom IC-718 that is my primary HF transceiver. It has been "opened up" so it does from about 1500 kc up to 30 mc. (That's kiloHERTZ and megaHERTZ for the youngsters.) I have the TCXO option so the frequency stability is very good. My "standby" transceiver is an Atlas 210X (80 - 10 meter, no WARC bands, no 60 meter band.)
The nice thing about the Atlas that it is "repairable" in the field. Yeah, there's a LOT it won't do and it "drifts" all over the place as was commonplace in it's heyday. Not bad at all for what it is though. Yes, I've made quite a few 60m contacts, even "across the pond", barefoot with the 718.

I think every one of my Estonian ham friends ("raadioamatöörid") has a UW3DI design transceiver (self built) sitting around. They are all running "rice boxes" these days, but they have that UW3DI around because they know they can keep it operating. I cannot think of a one that is operating an amplifier other than "self constructed". The level of technical expertise there is phenominal compared to almost all American hams.

There are only four "repeaters" in the nation. All 2 meter and all in the capital, Tallinn. The default national "chat" frequency is 3670 kc - lsb, which seems to work just fine.
One of my friends there has a station that I can and do operate remotely from here (USA) using Ham Radio Deluxe. Well, I am able to speak to the Estonians just fine, but if a Russian station comes on frequency in HIS tongue, I am "SOL". (And yes, I can send Õ IN CW.)

But, I dunno what I'd do with an Icom IC-7800. Over 10
grand and I'd never figure out what to do with all those knobs!

Bob

N5UYA/ES1RW

[wy0mn]

Bob, I loved your post about the horse & sleigh! Been quoting you to folks. Nice to know your a ham. :)
When I lived in TN the local hams were about 50/50 split between radiomen & appliance operators. I thought that was a fairly good mix since we had a bunch of young'uns that just wanted to be storm chasers.
Me? I've gone from appliance, to radioman, and back to appliance. Maybe one day I'll evolve again.
Here in Wyoming... I've located very few hams by their towers. You wouldn't believe how short some of the towers are, but we do get almost constant high velocity winds...

Gone workin'.

Lex wy0mn/7

[Swede]

I haven't tried out 60 meters yet. I'll have to give it a whirl sometime.

Rigs are a Mark V Field and a TS-930SAT.

I used to have a pretty nice horizontal loop. It was a full wave on 80 meters. Then I gave a home to a couple of abandoned puppies. One turned out to be a Great Dane. He pulled down the loop one afternoon while he was outside and I was taking a nap. That rascal went around the fenceline and chewed through the guy ropes where I had tied them to the fence. I was too lazy to re-shoot all of those lines over the trees and back down to the fence so I strung up an 80 meter dipole and doggie proofed the guys. I use a transmatch to load it on other bands.

He also grabbed the coax at the base of my mast supporting the VHF/UHF vertical. He pulled it right out of the PL-259 at the base of the antenna 50 ft high. That one remains unrepaired.

His crowning achievement was the satellite TV feed. It's now run through rigid conduit until it gets into the basement.

He's a bad boy, but I wouldn't have him any other way.

Swede N1OD

[wy0mn]

LOL. That pooch is some kinda radio critic!

Last year I had a rigid dipole break off due to ice & wind, then I had its wire replacement sag so low from ice that the wind sawed it in two on the roof shingles! It was suspended by pulleys & weights, I thought 'some' give would save it.
I have a longwire/tuner & various band auto whips now, mostly cheap Lakeviews.
Still debating the Comet CHA250B, if it will load up at all; it may be my savior in this land of wind/snow/ice/eagles (perching).

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

Folks, check out the comments that I made over in the Other Energy Issues forum about a new book that I bought...
http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/yabb/forum.pl?board=ene-other;action=display;num=1210122219

I think you guys already know all of this. I just wanted to spread the word to anyone who might happen to stumble across this thread with an interest.

Rob

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

Q about antennas. My 'Elmer' will give me an old Isotron of his that is vertically polarized (see, I'm learning!). He says that it is the Cats Meow for where I want to start at 2 M mobile/base. I trust his judgement as I have known him for almost 30 years and he was a USN radio op.
Problem is this.. he can't recall which model it is and we can't find it at Isotrons site. It is approx 60" tall and looks like 2 upside-down aluminum cones that are approx 24" each in length. Dia is roughly 8". Does anyone remember this antenna?
He can hook it up for me and tune it but, I'd just like more info on it. It may also save him from having to bring extra gear over when we put her up.

[wy0mn]

Sorry, I've been googling discone and biconical antennas... can't find that model on any of the sites I've hit yet. I'll keep looking.

[Fred_47460]

What you are describing sounds like an Isopole antenna. Check out http://www.isopole.com/ . I've never had one of those antennas, but the reviews are good. For a really good website for reviews and classified adds for ham stuff, check out http://www.eham.net

Good Luck...and 73
Fred

[OzarkMtnDaredevil]

FRED! U da MAN!! :) The IsoPole VHF in your first link is my antenna. Thanks!!
I'll be picking it up after the Swap Meet tomorrow.

[Fred_47460]

Glad to help! Good luck with the new antenna....and 73

Fred