Internet communications in a shtf scenario?

[mangyhyena]

Where, exactly, is the Internet and can the whole thing be taken down if shtf?

Will it be the Internet going down or our ability to connect to it that prevents us from using it for communications and info gathering during or shortly after shtf?

If it's our ability to connect to it, are there ways to connect that would be more likely to remain intact? For instance, would satellite connections be more likely to remain viable as compared to 56k dial up? What about cellular connections vs satellite connections?

I'm just wondering if there is any way to prepare so as to preserve Internet communication during and after a problem. I realize HAM is the best, most reliable way to stay informed. Not attempting to try to compare Internet communications with HAM, just trying to understand the best way to have the best chance of preserving Internet communications for shtf events.

Thanks for any input.

[edward_4576]

A little history first. The Internet is the evolution of what was originally called DarpaNet. It was developed by the military back during the cold war to prevent communications breakdown during a war. The communications protocols used allowed automatic rerouting of messages around nodes that had been isolated by what ever.

As for today's Internet it is now I believe the only thing that could crash it would be some type of virus/software approach or a complete outage of all electrical systems.

The first option would require a genius to pull off and if it did it would crash all sorts of other stuff as well like wall street and such as for the second well everyone has discussed what would happen if the lights went out.

IMHO

[Whiskey_D.]

And I thought Algore invented the internet ;D

[mangyhyena]

About a complete electrical outage of all electrical systems: How could that happen? Isn't at least some of the Internet routed through military hardware? If it is you can bet they have an alternate way to keep the juice flowing.

As for a hacker, who knows? If I were in charge of a country that was going to attack another country I'd make sure I had hackers who would be able to screw everything up even worse after the first volley of nukes landed. So maybe it's not at all far fetched the net would be eliminated after a shtf event like a nuke attack.

[JakeLeg]

i think we witnessed a practice run during that big blackout in new york a few summers ago. websites that were hosted in blackout affected areas were down for a few days because they blipped out during the blackout, and when the power came back on, administrators had to power their systems back up.

since the internet is not a 'thing' in one single place, then your ability to read internet sites depends on the degree of problems in the vicinity of sites you read, and the degree of problems at your end of the chain. your ISP could also go kaput due to power outage, downed wires, or whatever. sure, your area may have a blacout, and you may have a laptop with batteries, or a home generator, but that doesn't mean that the cable company, phone company, or whatever your hookup is, is going to be up and running.

[ryanmercer]

The internet as a whole might not go down, but alrge portions would, and the main question is... would you even be able to access it in your area... you are going to need phone, coax, or fiber optical connections with juice flowing through them, that aren't bogged down by everyone else in your area just to be able to get to something... then depending on what you want to visit, and your ability to... will depend on where else power is down. Also, in the event of a nuclear attack, I imagine the government can and will essentially take over the internet as we saw on Jericho last week.

[sheen_estevez]

Correct the Internet as a whole would not go down, but if a backbone went down entire area's would not be able to get connection, you might be able to connect to your local ISP but you may fine that you don't get too far. After the hurricane in New Orleans many sites didn't work due to the fact that the hosting companies were in that area, as they went down due to flooding and generators going down you could not get to those site.

For a SHTF situation I would not plan on the Interweb as a communications tool, or I would at least have a primary tool, be it HF (Ham) or smoke signals ;D In that situation cell phone towers, if working, may not be able to support the volume of traffic that would be on them, although SMS messaging might work even if voice was filled up.

[edward_4576]

Even though I'm what some would consider a techie, I still don't trust the hardware. In my first aid kit I have a book, not a memory stick. People can read (mostly) but a lot are not tech savvy. If i find something I want to keep I do download it and save it, but I also print me a hard copy. My wife says that I have printed out the whole Internet. well not quite but I do make sure I have documents and articles I think important on hard copy.

[ryanmercer]

Even though I'm what some would consider a techie, I still don't trust the hardware. In my first aid kit I have a book, not a memory stick. People can read (mostly) but a lot are not tech savvy. If i find something I want to keep I do download it and save it, but I also print me a hard copy. My wife says that I have printed out the whole Internet. well not quite but I do make sure I have documents and articles I think important on hard copy.

I wish I could... berak into a kinkos one night and go print crazy... I'm up to about 11 gigs of text I want to print.

[edward_4576]

I went to circuit city and picked up a cheap epson color printer for $45. It works well and I don't have to go looking for someplace to print out my documents.

[ryanmercer]

I went to circuit city and picked up a cheap epson color printer for $45. It works well and I don't have to go looking for someplace to print out my documents.

Yeah but... I"ve got... at least 1 million pages to print... heh.

[wy0mn]

First thing I'd do, if I lived in an urban environment with lots of wifi hotspots, would be to lose my leash to phone/cable/satellite all together. There are wifi yagi antennas with over a 3mi range. Let the other guy pay the bill, filter all your stuff thru HIS virus scanner before it reaches yours. Double your protection.
Who said books? Good idea. I have a fairly nice library of tech/survival stuff.

[Rick_O_Shea]

Localized DSL/Cable/WiFi would have a high probability of going down with the local power.

The best shot I can come up with is to opt for a satellite link, as this can be independently powered by a home generator, and there is at least a chance that the terrestrial base station(s) may not be affected by your local power outage. The significant downside to satellite is that there is considerable 'latency' involved...meaning the delay introduced beaming your signal up to the satellite, bouncing it down to a 'base station' (or whatever they call them), routing your traffic through the more conventional channels, then sending any responses back up to the satellite, and bouncing them down to your home. I believe this adds up to an overhead of around 2-3 seconds. While this is no problem for normal email/web/download use (you click on the link, wait a couple seconds, file comes roaring down) it completely kills the performance of online gaming, streaming media, realtime conferencing etc. If that meets your needs, great...otherwise, be forewarned.

As long as you can worm your way onto a reliable part of the net infrastructure, the TCP/IP protocol and routing algorithms (that collectively get your traffic to where it needs to go, and gets any response back to you) will handle the rest...but as more and more of the infrastructure becomes disabled (for lack of power or physical damage) the quality of service will deteriorate increasingly rapidly (assuming a constant or increasing level of attempted utilization).

How about learning good ol' injun smoke signals? ;-)

[DaNgEr_KiTtY]

i doubt i will even be thinking that the internet is gonna be workin when the shtf. regardless i have both cable at home & also have an air-card for my craptop when away from home. this allows me to get access wherever i have a phone signal. but who is to say that the cell towers will be powered & working either?

there are a few ways that people living in the same proximity can set up a wireless network to communicate & share files but you wouldnt be able to get to any websites unless you could reach them.

i guess satellite would be the most likely to still be up but again that has to be monitored & maintained also. they are just as screwed as everyone else if major hubs are down.

i dont have a ham radio. all i gots is a cb. its the only form of communication that i know would work in an emergency that doesnt depend on anything else other than its working properly & someone is in range. i consider my cb a priceless possession. plus i know where every last cop is on the interstate!

[edward_4576]

As far as SHTF comms go my preference would depend on what's happened. Are local stations up? TV - Radio? What about a scanner? Definitely CB and short wave as well.

Not a lot of equipment has it but if you buy receivers (IMHO) try to get one with a received signal strength meter. It can sometimes give you and indication of atmospherics, distance etc. I would also caution about transmitting, my biggest concern is remaining undetected or camouflaged. I doubt that a lot of people would have the capability to track RF signals but you never know.

As far as the internet goes in an H5N1 scenario a reliable connection might allow some people to work from home and communicate with loved ones if the phone lines are jammed. However trying to get information off the net during a SHTF event would seem to me to be like shutting the door after the horse got out of the barn.

[DV8]

I think in a SHTF situation, I would expect a simple Ham Radio to be the best source for info.

HOWEVER I dont think pc's will be totally useless. I for one have over 2 Terabytes of movies, Music, Games & Appz on harddrives & prolly 17 TB burned to cd or dvd's.. These would help my life remain somewhat normal, assuming they survived the situation..

I doubt anything except wireless cellular modems would still be available, (which includes cell phones that have 'net axx) at least short term... they may be bogged down by all the users trying at once as well, but you'd have to take out the actual sattelites (or the towers ) to render them unavailable, as the signal gets beamed from a tower to the sattelite.

Other countries would probably be unaffected, so the internet itself would survive as long as the disaster wasnt global, which is unlikely..

I think you'd want the anthologies on dvd from BHM, in a real case situation, because the knowledge on survival would be invaluable !!! then you can watch em on yer laptop or pc !!!

:)
~DV8

[edward_4576]

I ran an MTSO (mobile telephone switching office) and can give you all a run down on some of the technology of the way cellular works. Each cell is connected via a copper or microwave T1 to the MTSO where the main computers are. Each cell site may have as much as 8 hours of battery time and may not have a generator on site. The MTSO also has a battery backup but it's much smaller as the switch relies on ether commercial AC or a big backup generator. Each switch connects to other switches or LEC (local exchange carrier) where they interface with the computers that the software or documents you are trying to get to resides. If any part fails you loose your connectivity and who knows how reliable all those different parts are.