22-250 a Bit Light for Deer?

[Crash]

I witnessed a shooting of a white-tailed buck weighing about 220 lbs on the hoof on Thanksgiving. The shooter was using a 22-250, the first shot was from about 250 yards and hit the deer just behind the left shoulder--an excellent shot. The deer ran off into the brush and the next shot was taken from about 50 yards and, because of the angle and the brush, hit the deer a few inches in front of the left haunch. The deer was down but not out, so the shooter hit him twice more from about 25 yards, each time just behind the left shoulder. That took him out for good.

None of the bullets exited, but after having been shot three times behind the left shoulder the heart and lung area was pretty well messed up to about the center of the body.

I believe if the shooter had been using some thing a little bit heavier, anything from a .257 Roberts up to a 30-06, the deer might have run after a shot just behind that left shoulder, but he wouldn't have required several finishing shots.

Crash

[RangerRick]

It's a bit lite for my taste. I shot 3 last year with a Savage model 99 in .243/3000 and they all dropped in their tracks however, at close range a .22 in the brain will do nicely in a squeeze, if a bit illegally.

Rick

[DM]

The problem with the 22-250 is the bullets... At that high of a velocity it's VERY hard to design a bullet that will expand "some" and still hold together... 22 bullets have a hard time getting enough penetration at all but the best angles, and i thing the deer deserves something better than that...

I cringe every time anyone uses a 22 "anything" on deer and it's why they are banned for use on deer, in most states!

I'm also not a big advocate of the 243 Win., for deer either... Yes, i know they will kill a deer, i've shot 20 or 25 with one myself, a bear too.

Because i've used one so much, it is the reason i think 25 cal. on up is a much better choise...

RR,

What's a 243-3000? Must be a wildcat, as there were no factory 243-3000's that i've ever heard of...

I do believe you threw that in there to get someone to ask about it, so now that it worked, fill us in... :D

DM

[kawalekm]

Sierra does make a game bullet in .224, it's a 69 grain soft point. Whether or not an actual game bullet was used, you can't tell from Crash's story, but since it's a handloaded only thing, I doubt it. If he was shooting some kind of 50ish grain varmint bullet it's easy to see way it took 4 shoots. I too agree that any .224 is too light, but I know a neighbor that is a very serious shooter that killed a bear last year with a .223 with that 69 grain bullet. My favorate rifle now is a Swedish 6.5 X 55. The power level is right in-between a .257 Roberts, and a .308. They are all great deer cartridges.
Michael

[DM]

Sierra does make a game bullet in .224, it's a 69 grain soft point. *Whether or not an actual game bullet was used, you can't tell from Crash's story, but since it's a handloaded only thing, I doubt it. *If he was shooting some kind of 50ish grain varmint bullet it's easy to see way it took 4 shoots. *I too agree that any .224 is too light, but I know a neighbor that is a very serious shooter that killed a bear last year with a .223 with that 69 grain bullet.

*1. Don't you mean that Sierra makes a bullet "they call" a game bullet?? *It's no whitetail bullet no matter what they say, "just to sell it"...

*I can honestly say, i've never found Sierra to make good big game bullets of any size, although they make some of the most accurate production bullets ever loaded!!!

*2. *Many years ago i sold a new Valmet AK74 (.223 cal) to a guy i knew quite well... *Him and his wife and daughter were berry picking on their homestead across Cook Inlet from Kenai, Alaska, and were charged by a brown bear! *He fired a full 33 round mag. into the charging bear and it fell "feet" away from him.... *No doubt saving his bacon!

*When they came to town the next time, his wife hugged me for selling him that gun that "she said" saved their lives...

*From that day on, he (they) were convinced that a .223 was big medicine for brown bears, and you just didn't need anything else!!! (read bigger)

*Now i ask you, do you think a .223 is a "brown bear" cartridge?? *That family sure does!

*DM

[MadTripper]

Seems a bit small to me. Nice for woodchucks! I currently use an 8mm however have used a 25-06 for a few years and I love that round. I feel confident in my accuracy however can't stand to find wounded deer. So, for that reason, I prefer something I can hit and be done. If I wanted to chase a deer after I shot it, I'd go for archery.

Tripper

[oldnndway]

Pretty much every deer I've ever shot with a .308 fell dead right close to where it was standing when shot.
I like a .308

I know a fellow that has a huge ranch down close to Uvalde in the very bottom edge of the Texas hill country.
All he uses anymore is a .22-250
He's got a scope on it you could star gaze with and he can hit what he shoots
Seems to do a fair job on deer and exotics there but he is picky on what he shoots and the deer there are smallish

[AlchemyAcres]

Yeah...no doubt it's not a big gun, but i've killed several deer with a 22-250...I was always very careful with the shots I made...never more than a 100 yards or so...I got every deer i ever shot at without maiming them...it's all about using commonsense....
I see folks use the big guns at crazy distances...maiming deer and doing stupid things just to show off, yet criticize others because they're not into the big gun thing...oh well...

Well...I gave it all up...the 22-250...270 ...25-06...30-06..264 mag...7mm mag and others...scopes and all...LOL

I gave it ALL up about 10 yeaars ago and returned to a 30-30 with open sights... I carry the gun, a knife, and pen..that's all....I have NO problem gettin' deer..no ATVs...no treestands...no range finders..no fancy-schmancy stuff .....no sillyness ....no BS.

Hey, if it was good enough for the Duke, it's good enough for me!!! LOL


YMMV!

~Martin :)

[Gibbonboy]

From what I've seen, .22 caliber bullets and even .243 to some extent are great when you have an open shot and good placement. I spent all of last Saturday chasing a deer that a friend wounded with a .243. On our travels, I happened across a large doe in fairly open woods, but with some maple saplings. I had no trouble with my .32 Win Special- she would have fallen where she was, but she more or less slid down the mountain about 50 feet and came to rest against a log. Wasn't even twitching when I got there. The other three deer that were harvested by my party were all shot with .243's, and they all ran at least 200 yards before dropping, and 2 of them were still fairly active when we got to them.

For my area, I'd stick to .30 and up. .22-250 is an awesome varmint round, though. I have a friend that has loaded some hot enough that you can occaisionally see the lead trail as it goes downrange.

So, yes, I'd personally not be comfortable hunting whitetail with a .22-250, but I know many people who do. I just like to put them down hard on the first shot with no chasing.

[RangerRick]

*The problem with the 22-250 is the bullets... *At that high of a velocity it's VERY hard to design a bullet that will expand "some" and still hold together... *22 bullets have a hard time getting enough penetration at all but the best angles, and i thing the deer deserves something better than that...

*I cringe every time anyone uses a 22 "anything" on deer and it's why they are banned for use on deer, in most states!

*I'm also not a big advocate of the 243 Win., for deer either... *Yes, i know they will kill a deer, i've shot 20 or 25 with one myself, a bear too.

*Because i've used one so much, it is the reason i think 25 cal. on up is a much better choise...

*RR,

*What's a 243-3000? *Must be a wildcat, as there were no factory 243-3000's that i've ever heard of...

*I do believe you threw that in there to get someone to ask about it, so now that it worked, fill us in... * :D

*DM

Sorry, typo - it's a .253-3000. *Shoots an 87 gr up to 120gr bullet. Good deer round, real flat shootin. Savage brought it out as the first deer round to top 3000 fps back in the lat 1950's.

Rick

[DM]

Sorry, typo - it's a .253-3000. Shoots an 87 gr up to 120gr bullet. Good deer round, real flat shootin. Savage brought it out as the first deer round to top 3000 fps back in the lat 1950's.


Hey Rick,

How about we give that one more try? ::)

How about a 250-3000? :D

DM 8)

[RangerRick]

Damn damn tripple damn.

;D If I only had a brain.

Rick

[GUNSLINGER]

The 22-250 and .243 are fine deer stoppers IMO. I always shoot them in the neck though. None of that shoulder shootin meat wastin stuff. I have been taking deer with a .243 and a .223 for 10 yrs now and have not had even one get more than 25 yds from where they were standing when I hit them.

Before my friends dad talked me into neck shots, I was shooting them in the shoulder with my .308 . But it wastes meat, and I got tired of tracking them danged blood trails.

[Crash]

Yesterday I talked to an outfitter who's been in the business many years and he told me he's seen many hunters lose deers shot with a .243.

I don't think I'd shoot a deer with anything less than a .257 Roberts or the like. I currently use a 7mm-08 which seems to do the job real well. I'm guessing that anything from a 6.5x55 Swede up to a non-magnum .30 cal would would be optimal for whitetail deer.

Crash

[Crash]

Yeah...no doubt it's not a big gun, but i've killed several deer with a 22-250...I was always very careful with the shots I made...never more than a 100 yards or so...I got every deer i ever shot at without maiming them...it's all about using commonsense....
I see folks use the big guns at crazy distances...maiming deer and doing stupid things just to show off, *yet criticize others because they're not into the big gun thing...oh well...

Well...I gave it all up...the 22-250...270 ...25-06...30-06..264 mag...7mm mag and others...scopes and all...LOL

I gave it ALL up about 10 yeaars ago and returned to a 30-30 with open sights... I carry the gun, a knife, and pen..that's all....I have NO problem gettin' deer..no ATVs...no treestands...no range finders..no fancy-schmancy stuff .....no sillyness ....no BS.

Hey, if it was good enough for the Duke, it's good enough for me!!! LOL


YMMV!

~Martin :)


Martin,

I'm currently using a 7mm-08 but I'm thinking about going back to a 30-30, but I don't know about open sights. My eyes are at the point where I just about have to have a scope. And I'm also thinking about using my .54 muzzleloader for deer.

Crash

[AlchemyAcres]

Martin,

I'm currently using a 7mm-08 but I'm thinking about going back to a 30-30, but I don't know about open sights. My eyes are at the point where I just about have to have a scope. And I'm also thinking about using my .54 muzzleloader for deer.

Crash



Sounds like a plan!
I stopped huntin' 'em like they're pronghorns......I take most deer in the woods at 50 yards or less, so a scope is more of a liability than an asset, most of the time anyway.

My Dad and Uncle are into muzzleloaders big time...I'm a tradionalist when it comes to guns, archery, etc....or whatever...I havn't made it past the flintlock! muzzleloaderwise! ;D LOL

~Martin :)

[Gibbonboy]

Yep, the .54 flintlock is my choice too. Use 348 gr. Aerotips from PowerBelt, they really do the job, like throwing a brick at 600 miles an hour!

I agree with a scope being more of a hindrance around this area than a help. Despite some peoples' claims of 400-yard kills, 99% are harvested under 50 yards. My .32 Win Spl has no sling, no scope, nothing. Just the way Grandpa got it from Sears in 1925. Paid a whole 12 dollars for it then, probably has harvested a few hundred deer.

Looking forward to the "real" muzzleloader season in PA- although the crossbow rule is going to fudge that some. I took 3 days off right after Christmas, so I get a good 4 or 5 days of hunting in, still have tags to use up!

edit: For those not in Pennsylvania, our "late" muzzleloader season starts on December 26th, and you can only use flintlocks, no inlines or percussion. This year allows the use of a crossbow during any firearms season, so we'll see how that goes. No blaze orange required during this season, either.

[ChoochCharlie]

I use a 30/30 with sight thru scope mounts. Helps in the brush.
My grandfathers gun, now back in my dad's hands, it is also a 30/30 with sight thru mounts but he put a peep sight on it. Really helps with eye strain and weakening eyesight. Peep and put the front sight on the shoulder. Your eye naturally finds the center of the rear sight so it's one less thing to focus on. Hard sights can't be beat in brush (PA) and snow.

I'm in 5C so it's still doe season. Heading out tomorrow to try to get the freezer filled.

[AlchemyAcres]

.... it's still doe season. Heading out tomorrow to try to get the freezer filled.

That's not fair!
;)

~Martin

[jjspirko]

I have done it once and seen it twice. All three shots were with 55 Grain PSPs behind the shoulder and all were drop within a few feet of where they were shot. Two went down like they were dynamited and the other took two steps.

These were good sized northern deer as well. The issue is to NOT hit any big bones and to HOPE the bullet does not get too turned by a rib. When that little round goes into the lungs though it is over.

Is it ideal? No but it is more then proven to work. That said a cheap old NEF 30-30 or 44 Mag or any in a traditional "deer caliber" is better. You could also pick up one of them old Mosin Nagants for under 60 bucks which is basically a russian 308. I would use the 22-250 with a perfect shot when in hand but if I had even an hour to plan a hunt I would take something else.

[Pitdog]

Kudos to the .257/6.5x55 crowd. Two of the greatest deer cartridges ever, and I have built custom rifles for myself in both calibers.
Although I killed four deer with a 7mm-08 this year, because it was available, scoped, stocked, and blued and plenty of ammo, and it is a deer slaying machine.
11 y/o killed his first deer with it while in my company, made a one shot kill 150 yds and only fired the gun for the first time earlier in the afternoon. Gotta' love it too.

[Mad_Professor]

Feed it Nosler partition bullets

[Florida_boy]

I was in the doctor's office almost a year ago now and was looking through an Outdoor Life magazine. They had a little piece in it about the fact that when the .22-250 was introduced by Remington it was touted as a deer round.
I know there are a lot of people here in central Fla. who use a .22 Hornet as a deer rifle. I have a .223 Handi rifle I bought for coyotes and if a perfect shot came up at a deer I'd take it but the .223 wouldn't be my first choice.

[RobertRogers]

.22LR has taken many a deer. In the very thick woods of my area a 50-yard shot is often pushing it and at that range the .22LR can be deadly. Its also used for poaching due to lower noise and, believe it or not, as an effective sniper round in urban environments.

[walls0stone]

It's all about the deer, and the shooter, distance and area. I'd try it.

like my 30-06 personaly but we have 3 such rifles in the family so when the clips are slide'n around on the dash board, and 3 men jump out of a truck in a cornfield to put supper on the the table, ya just grab a clip

[logger_b]

Back in the early 70's I bought the wife a 22/250 in a Rem. mod. 788. Here in Oregon they go by ft. pounds of energy instead of caliber, and it was the minimum to use. I liked that little gun so much, I started hunting Blacktail deer with it, and harvested many, and never had one run far.

Today, I only use muzzleloaders to hunt with, and my favorite is a 62 cal. smoothbore. I can load for deer, elk, or load it with shot to take a grouse, or squirrel.

I sort of like the smell of blackpowder on a frosty morning ;D

[MIKENSUE]

Getting back to the original post I don't understand why at 25 yards, the person kept going for the heart/lung shot. Why mess up any more meat, make the field dressing nasty. Go for the neck or head. To me that is the logical shot.
It's not a matter of the caliber here at this point. I've seen 22's drop deer ( illegally ::)) at this range.

[rAcErRicK]

I'm with you Mikensue, a spinal drops them right in their tracks too. That has always been my first choice, but you don't always get the choice. Especially with a fast round like 22-250. Hydro-shock disintegrates the spinal cord.

Only a very close head shot with the 22LR though for me. Too much chance of leaving a wounded animal to die slowly. Don't like to do that at all.

[MIKENSUE]

Yep, hate to do that as well. Rather have a quick kill, down and dressed ASAP.
Hydro-shock, that is a pretty serious round.

[Crash]

Getting back to the original post I don't understand why at 25 yards, the person kept going for the heart/lung shot. Why mess up any more meat, make the field dressing nasty. Go for the neck or head. To me that is the logical shot.
It's not a matter of the caliber here at this point. I've seen 22's drop deer ( illegally ::)) at this range.

MIKENSUE,

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this one. I don't know why the guy continued to shoot into the heart/lung area. He was a fairly young shooter and maybe that was all he knew to do. I was watching and I didn't think to tell him any different and probably wouldn't have said anything if I had thought about it--I don't like to tell another man how to hunt.

Crash

[Tuckahoe]

While nothing is absolute small bullets can and do take deer. The first post sounded more like a disaster rather than a clean kill. Some hunters do better than others when hunting with .22 caliber centerfires. My favorite deer rifles are all 30 caliber, 30-30, .30-06, .308 and 7.62x39. I also own a .30 carbine and a Browning BAR in 300 win mag but the carbine is on the light side and the BAR is more than enough for white tail deer. One big seller here in eastern NC this time of year is the .243 I bet if a poll were taken the .243 would be in the top five if not the top three calibers sold.

[flatwater]

I gave up all modern weapons and went to a 54 cal cap and ball. Within a 100 yards what I hit has always dropped dead. A 54 comes out to be about 220 grains of led. If it gets close to any vital organs the kenetic energy turns them to mush. I have done the small and fast before when I was younger but now I prefer the slow round and heavy , kind of like me.
Flatwater