The $8,000 experiment.

[Buck]

About ten months ago, I had an epiphany. I was driving down the street in my expensive, leased car and I noticed the city bus go by. Funny, I hadn't thought about the bus since the last time I took it (I think I was about twelve years old at the time and it was my main form of transportation back then). The thought suddenly occurred to me that if I could take public transportation in the countries we travel to for vacation, why couldn't I take it here in my own hometown?

As an experiment, I took the bus to the mall the following Saturday. Besides being totally embarrassed that someone would see me, it was actually a nice ride. There were no traffic worries, no parking worries, and no need to stop by the gas station for a fill up. I just relaxed and read a book until the bus dropped me at the front door of the mall.

I was sold on the bus that first time..............

http://www.stretcher.com/stories/08/08dec01d.cfm

[MotherCharlotte]

Certainly riding the bus can save a lot of money. But it depends on the situation. For example, riding the bus wouldn't be practical for people with many children (if you have to pay fare for all of them) and you can't always get where you want to go on the bus either.

In our city the bus service is extremely bad; the buses are never on time and the routes only cover about half the city. If my husband were to take the bus to the college everyday (where he attends) he would have to first take a bus downtown and then switch to another bus. The entire trip would take an hour and a half, one way. It takes less than 15 minutes to drive there in the car, so the choice is obvious.

[otterbob]

I get mad !

Every time I hear someone say “take the bus” I really get PO'ed
Where the #@$% is the bus for people that live in the country or “OFF” the route in the city.

I do not need to go to the mall.
If I use the bus from my little home in town it does not go to or near the “ranch” stores where I buy my cloths, seeds and tools. It does not go to or near the hardware store where I need parts and other items that “Lowes and Home Depot” do not carry.
Every try to board a bus with a gun? It does not go near the gun shop or shooting range.
It does not go within 35 miles of my homestead, so I cannot haul chickens, goats, cattle, loads of hay, fifty pound bags of feed, hundreds of gallons of water, lumber, fencing or roofing material on the bus.
You cannot take a bus to the Auction houses/yards.

For one's that live in the city and want others to pay for their transportation, It may be a good deal.

But remember this, when that bus stops running. Don't ask for meat or grain *!

Otter Bob

PS: Sorry if I offended anyone with the rant.

[fnfredux]

About ten months ago, I had an epiphany. I was driving down the street in my expensive, leased car and I noticed the city bus go by. Funny, I hadn't thought about the bus since the last time I took it (I think I was about twelve years old at the time and it was my main form of transportation back then). The thought suddenly occurred to me that if I could take public transportation in the countries we travel to for vacation, why couldn't I take it here in my own hometown?

As an experiment, I took the bus to the mall the following Saturday. Besides being totally embarrassed that someone would see me, it was actually a nice ride. There were no traffic worries, no parking worries, and no need to stop by the gas station for a fill up. I just relaxed and read a book until the bus dropped me at the front door of the mall.

I was sold on the bus that first time..............

http://www.stretcher.com/stories/08/08dec01d.cfm

this time I concur wholeheartedly, only wish we had public transportation here in the boonies.
When I grew up, you walked, rode your bike, took the bus or didn't go. Parents DID NOT ferry kids around, of course those same parents would personally murder anyone that laid a hand on you, and so would everyone they knew...different world.
I STILL like to take the bus, last time was whe we were in seattle for a vacation. Yook the city bus around it was great!

[Cil]

Since I live in Los Angeles, the bus is my mode of transportation. I suck as a driver, so I quit driving in 1992-ish. I'm extremely blessed with the L.A. bus systems. I get the disabled monthly EZ bus pass for $35 a month. It's good for all the buses I take. So, in that way, it's much cheaper. I tell people, if you can take the bus and give your car a day off or two, go for it.

[MYellowRose]

I'm with Cil. I take the bus everywhere! Yes, it's difficult if you've got kids, but I took 3 of them to Wal-Mart this morning and then home in the afternoon and it only cost 50 cents each way for the 6 yr. old, the 3 & 4 yr. olds are free. I get a monthly half-fare big pass as I'm diabled and I can go anywhere I want during the month without paying anything more. It costs $12.50 for my pass and the same amount for one for the 6 yr. old, I forgot to get hers from my daughters wallet before she went to school this morning. Daughter pays $25 for a "semester pass" that she can use anytime since she's a college student. In January she'll get one for the next semester and pay $27 for an ID and semester pass for the 6 yr. old then I'll be the only one that needs to buy a monthly pass. If I didn't have it I could ride for a quarter between 9 am and 3 pm Monday through Friday, and for free on weekends since I'm disabled. Starting in January bus fare, i.e. bus passes and so on, are going up but it's till a bargain compared to keeping a car running what with the required insurance, maintenance, and gas. Once my daughters car is running she will take it up to the park and ride when she has school and that will save them on bus ride. The only time I don't like it is when we have to go to the grocery store! I paid $35 last month for a wire shopping cart but the first time we used it one of the front wheels bent while my daughter was trying to get it on the bus.When she got off to walk home along a sidewalk it fell off completely. Luckily for her her ex was off work and was able to come pick up her and the groceries. Don't remember exactly where the girls and I went but we weren't with her at the time. Won't waste my money on one of those again. I had one that I bought back when Woolworth's was going out of business here and it lasted until late last year, a good 15 or so years.
I keep track of the schedules of the busses I ride most often and make sure I leave early enough if I've got an appointment and the bus or busses I need to take have a train track across the route at some point or another. I always back up one bus and take the one before I think I need, many times it's kept me from missing an appointment or the like. Two of the three busses I take to get to my doctor's appointments have train tracks on them so I make sure I leave in more than enough time. Also I have all my appointments scheduled no earlier than 10 am so I don't have to catch a bus at 5 am or so to try and make it on time.
If you can us the public transit service it's good, otherwise I understand completely.
Oh yes, it takes us a minimum of two differnet busses to get most places and sometimes 3 but we've learned to live with it.

[jlmissouri]

I would have to travel 60 miles to get to a bus stop. It would be okay for going somewhere in town if you lived their, but I would take an electric car over it any day.

[fnfredux]

* I'm with Cil. *I take the bus everywhere! *Yes, it's difficult if you've got kids, but I took 3 of them to Wal-Mart this morning and then home in the afternoon and it only cost 50 cents each way for the 6 yr. old, the 3 & 4 yr. olds are free. *I get a monthly half-fare big pass as I'm diabled and I can go anywhere I want during the month without paying anything more. *It costs $12.50 for my pass and the same amount for one for the 6 yr. old, I forgot to get hers from my daughters wallet before she went to school this morning. *Daughter pays $25 for a "semester pass" that she can use anytime since she's a college student. *In January she'll get one for the next semester and pay $27 for an ID and semester pass for the 6 yr. old then I'll be the only one that needs to buy a monthly pass. *If I didn't have it I could ride for a quarter between 9 am and 3 pm Monday through Friday, and for free on weekends since I'm disabled. *Starting in January bus fare, i.e. bus passes and so on, are going up but it's till a bargain compared to keeping a car running what with the required insurance, maintenance, and gas. *Once my daughters car is running she will take it up to the park and ride when she has school and that will save them on bus ride. *The only time I don't like it is when we have to go to the grocery store! *I paid $35 last month for a wire shopping cart but the first time we used it one of the front wheels bent while my daughter was trying to get it on the bus.When she got off to walk home along a sidewalk it fell off completely. *Luckily for her her ex was off work and was able to come pick up her and the groceries. *Don't remember exactly where the girls and I went but we weren't with her at the time. *Won't waste my money on one of those again. *I had one that I bought back when Woolworth's was going out of business here and it lasted until late last year, a good 15 or so years.
* I keep track of the schedules of the busses I ride most often and make sure I leave early enough if I've got an appointment and the bus or busses I need to take have a train track across the route at some point or another. *I always back up one bus and take the one before I think I need, many times it's kept me from missing an appointment or the like. Two of the three busses I take to get to my doctor's appointments have train tracks on them so I make sure I leave in more than enough time. *Also I have all my appointments scheduled no earlier than 10 am so I don't have to catch a bus at 5 am or so to try and make it on time.
* If you can us the public transit service it's good, otherwise I understand completely.
* Oh yes, it takes us a minimum of two differnet busses to get most places and sometimes 3 but we've learned to live with it.

the US could use MORE public transport. I think a lot of people would consider it a viable solution to high costs of private cars. Thank you Rose for being a good citizen, using LESS than most folks. Wish I could do the same.

[MotherCharlotte]

MyYellowRose, that's amazing. Where do you live that the bus passes are so cheap? In my city a bus pass costs $79 PER MONTH. Even a student will pay $55 per month. One time fare is $2.45, $1.70 for kids.

[Cil]

Charlotte, it's cheaper for Rose and I and others like us because we are disabled. Disabled passes and fares are always cheaper than regular fares. The regulare EZ pass for all the LA systems is right now $70 and soon to go up to $80, I heard. But for us, that pass is good for at 20 different bus companies in the Southern California area, all the way down to Orange Country where Disneyland is.

[Buck]

In years past in America there was some sort of bus service to almost
all small towns nationwide. Those days will come again if America can
stop doing dumb stuff that supports big oil and the car as much as they
do.

[GoodDaughter]

Uhmmm, Buck? When you wake up here in a little while, maybe you should google all the bus services that are in business in the present (as opposed to in the past) here in the U.S., perhaps google some bus schedules? Quite a few bus lines still in business, oh expert of American culture. ::) *I've used them several times myself, they are useful in certain circumstances.

One of the biggest obstacles is that here in the U.S., unlike the U.K., distances are sometimes great between cities, and sometimes even between small towns. It took me 3 days to go from Dallas, Texas to Denver, Colorado a few years ago via bus. This is not expedient. And not particularly inexpensive, either. *In 1996, I was with a group that traveled from Budapest to Nuernberg, and it was a bit less than 400 miles. That is like going from Houston to the state line of Oklahoma. In other words, 400 miles in the same state, not crossing country boundaries as is common in Europe. We also went from London to Glastonbury, which was if I remember right, about 100 miles. 100 miles here in Texas is, sorry to say, not very far. And the crush of humanity everywhere we went was astounding. Such a high population density I had never seen in my life. How do y'all live that way? I am so glad I live here in the U.S., where we can at least afford our own homes and a bit of land so we can have room to breathe and move without someone banging into us at every turn! And the body odor in the U.K.!! What's up with that?? We were on a bus in London, and the body odor was also like nothing I have ever experienced. Is deodorant not popular there?

Here in the U.S., some of us don't live like y'all in the U.K., stacked up like cordwood, or like caged up in 'flats'. *And for the lower income people, 'council flats', which is the same as government housing here in the U.S. I suppose if a person lives in a council flat, on the dole, then they can't afford a car either, and public transportation is best for them. Does the government over there provide free transportation to people in council flats? Just curious. I don't know a great deal about government welfare, having never needed any myself.

Some of us don't go places like malls or shopping often or even work away from home. We don't need to constantly travel, therefore we don't need to constantly use public transportation.

Trying to draw parallels between public transportation in the U.S. and the U.K. only shows that you lack a fundamental understanding of the statement you made about bus service to small towns nationwide here in the U.S. *It exists, but you didn't educate yourself about it. It also shows that you are not quite as educated as you try to make yourself appear regarding the history of rural America and transportation.

But hey, what do I know? I just live here.... ::)

And just for the record Buck, I'm not stalking you. :-* I enjoy your *unique* point of view. It's informative and interesting to see how the liberal mind functions.

So Buck, been hunting lately? What do y'all do for hunting over there? Quail? Pheasant? Partridges? Red deer? Hedgehogs? What's your caliber of choice? My favorite for deer and hog hunting is my .30 30, and I also have a .257. *Do you like fishing? What all do y'all catch over there? Here the main freshwater fish are catfish, crappie and bass, and saltwater is of course redfish, channel cats, and flounder. I never have much luck with spinner baits, don't know why. Ever been fly fishing? I never have, I really want to give that a try. Crabbing? You should try crabbing if you never have. It's very relaxing. Zen, almost.

[ozarksnick]

Ummm ... GoodDaughter. Must be nice to live in Texas where there is bus service in every town. I live in Kansas and the majority of small towns up here do not have bus service.

Also, I'm curious where in the world you fish for channel cat in saltwater?

[maineyankee]

Buck says;

"The thought suddenly occurred to me that if I could take public transportation in the countries we travel to for vacation, why couldn't I take it here in my own hometown?
As an experiment, I took the bus to the mall the following Saturday. Besides being totally embarrassed that someone would see me, it was actually a nice ride. There were no traffic worries, no parking worries, and no need to stop by the gas station for a fill up. I just relaxed and read a book until the bus dropped me at the front door of the mall. "

Did they just start bus service in your area ?

And why would you be embarrassed about being seen on a bus ?

[Buck]

Uhmmm, Buck? When you wake up here in a little while, maybe you should google all the bus services that are in business in the present (as opposed to in the past) here in the U.S., perhaps google some bus schedules? Quite a few bus lines still in business, oh expert of American culture. ::) *I've used them several times myself, they are useful in certain circumstances.

So Buck, been hunting lately? What do y'all do for hunting over there? Quail? Pheasant? Partridges? Red deer? Hedgehogs? What's your caliber of choice? My favorite for deer and hog hunting is my .30 30, and I also have a .257. Do you like fishing? What all do y'all catch over there? Here the main freshwater fish are catfish, crappie and bass, and saltwater is of course redfish, channel cats, and flounder. I never have much luck with spinner baits, don't know why. Ever been fly fishing? I never have, I really want to give that a try. Crabbing? You should try crabbing if you never have. It's very relaxing. Zen, almost.


There is no reason to be snotty or terse in your response about saving money!

as to hunting......I'm handicapped to the point I can barely walk somedays
so does THAT answer your question?

[Buck]

Buck says;

"The thought suddenly occurred to me that if I could take public transportation in the countries we travel to for vacation, why couldn't I take it here in my own hometown?
As an experiment, I took the bus to the mall the following Saturday. Besides being totally embarrassed that someone would see me, it was actually a nice ride. There were no traffic worries, no parking worries, and no need to stop by the gas station for a fill up. I just relaxed and read a book until the bus dropped me at the front door of the mall. "

Did they just start *bus service in your area ?

And why would you be embarrassed about being seen on a bus ?

ONCE AGAIN..."I" didn't say that. The person who wrote the story IN THE
LINK did.

[fnfredux]

You know,passenger trains USED to run too, even in the boonies.
Here in rural MO back a hundred years ago you cound go from a "town" (some as small as 100 pop) station to KC in probably less time than now.
We have many, many abandoned tracks, and in fact one line was transformed into a bike trail that spans the state east to west
http://www.bikekatytrail.com/
Don't think public transportation CAN'T be accomplished, many small towns are more "cut off" and "remote" than they were 100 years ago when they had RAIL SERVICE.

[Buck]

You know,passenger trains USED to run too, even in the boonies.
Here in rural MO back a hundred years ago you cound go from a "town" (some as small as 100 pop) station to KC in probably less time than now.
We have many, many abandoned tracks, and in fact one line was transformed into a bike trail that spans the state east to west
http://www.bikekatytrail.com/
Don't think public transportation CAN'T be accomplished, many small towns are more "cut off" and "remote" than they were 100 years ago when they had RAIL SERVICE.

Yes, all very true. I'm an avid cyclist (my legs cut that back a good bit
but I still can ride my custom built trike) and the rail to trails movement
never has set well with me. I remember very well the trains that used
to run to/from our small midwestern town when I was a boy.

[kberg]

Boondoggle ..........

The passenger rail here is subsidized at more than 10 million a year to run because the ridership does not even come close to paying for it. If the bus/passenger rail system worked so well more private companies would pick up the idea and make money off of it. my $.02

[Buck]

Boondoggle ..........

The passenger rail here is subsidized at more than 10 million a year to run because the ridership does not even come close to paying for it. If the bus/passenger rail system worked so well more private companies would pick up the idea and make money off of it. my $.02

What you say is very true. However, as long as America pours trillions into
an inefficient super highway system known as the interstate mass transit
will never have enough money to become viable. IMO, ALL interstate roads
should be pay as drive toll roads to pay for their upkeep.

[fnfredux]

Boondoggle ..........

The passenger rail here is subsidized at more than 10 million a year to run because the ridership does not even come close to paying for it. If the bus/passenger rail system worked so well more private companies would pick up the idea and make money off of it. my $.02


Could it be POSSIBLE that way back when....
When Henry Ford and J. Rockefeller got together and FOUND a use for the gasoline engine and the gasoline, the FEDS took the idea (suburbs) to the extreme because it meant more money for their coffers (no to mention $$$ for politians from big oil.
You must remember, til the automobile, there was no market for gasoline. Kerosene for lamps, that is where Rockefeller(Standard Oil) got into the petroleum business.
There are so many things that people today do not understand. Not their fault, they were not taught properly. Some concepts interferred with Corporate images. John D. Rockefeller actually got his start by well here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/rockefellers/peopleevents/p_rock_jsr.html

and I didn't read the whole article myself because I am familiar with his story, he basically put his rivals out of business by monopolizing the transport of kerosene found it elsewhere:
http://www.bilderberg.org/whatafel.htm.

Gasoline was a waste product , Henry Ford made it a necessity and the FEDs aided it and TAXED it.

It is a win/win for everyone but the average Joe/joanne.
It is a club (gasoline) wielded by the elite.
The more gas used (as in private cars) the more hard earned money goes to oil companies, car manufacturers, and the GVT.

Good public transportation is NOT in the interst of the anyone but us poor working folks.

[MooseToo]

Boondoggle ..........

The passenger rail here is subsidized at more than 10 million a year to run because the ridership does not even come close to paying for it. If the bus/passenger rail system worked so well more private companies would pick up the idea and make money off of it. my $.02
you are correct -
the cost of diesel fuel to move a ton of freight one mile by rail is unbelievably low - the cost of diesel fuel to move one passenger one mile by rail is unbelievably high -
can't mix apples and oranges and come up with accuracy -

[fnfredux]

you are correct -
the cost of diesel fuel to move a ton of freight one mile by rail is unbelievably low - the cost of diesel fuel to move one passenger one mile by rail is unbelievably high -
can't mix apples and oranges and come up with accuracy -





answers here
http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/31

[anna]

There used to be inter-urban passenger service between cities on Doodlebugs which were sort of a streetcar. (A self-powered car carrying passengers.) It would stop at country crossroads or farm if waved down. My grandmother used to ride it to visit her sister-in-laws in neighboring towns. My dh used to ride with his mom to larger community for Saturday shopping. Service for these ended early 1950's. I would dearly love to have such service available for my commute to work. During the gas shortages in the 70's my dh considered running a bus for commuters but government regulations and insurance costs snuffed that idea.

I know a lot of people who take the bus to the grocery store and then call a cab to go home with their shopping. It saves double cab fare and the hassle of carrying groceries on the bus.

Weather is also an issue in Midwest. Waiting for a bus in a thunderstorm or snow or cold winds is not fun. Nor is finding out buses have stopped running due to snow while you're still at work. Or climbing over a mountain of plowed snow to get on or off the bus. Or wading thru water, snow, slush when getting on and off.

[leera]

If I could take a bus back and forth,I would,but the only bus system around only goes to Lansing,and I work in the opposite direction......

When I moved out on my own for the first time,I lived close enough to walk,and did so everyday unless there was something large or in great quantity that I needed to buy that day.

I'm all for walking,taking a bus,or riding my bike,but I live 30 miles one way from my current place of employment.Makes it kind of difficult to do anything other than drive.

[EarthMama]

I would have to travel 60 miles to get to a bus stop.

I think this is why, decades and decades ago, only farmers lived out in the boonies. For those who weren't farming, it made absolutely no sense to live so far out that you had to travel 60 miles to get to a bus stop. Farmers needed land to farm~ folks who didn't farm for a living didn't need land. They needed the convenience of goods and services being close by (jobs, grocery stores, libraries, schools, doctors, etc.).

This whole notion of people living "way out", who don't farm, is really a rather new concept. And it doesn't make much sense, when you think about it. Some folks drive a couple hours one-way, to work, just to spend a few short waking hours everyday out in the suburbs. They leave for work before the birds start chirping and they get home long after the birds have gone to bed. Seems rather strange to me. ???

[Funkhouser]

I take Charlotte Area Transit System (CATS) to work and back every day. Because of where I work, the concierge service offers a 30% discount on 10-ride and monthly express passes. I pay $21.00 (up from $18.20 earlier this year) for a 10-ride pass.

It's not just to save gas, but to save on parking fees. The cheapest little gravel lot anywhere close to my building is about $80 a month! :o

[pinetreefarm]

The light rail will be coming from Twin Cities to Duluth soon with several stops in between. It would be great to drive to one of those stops and go either north or south. But how do you handle children, packages etc? I think people are very comfortable in their own vehicles. With gas prices so low, I suspect that the average sheeple will simply start driving more anyway.

Pine

[Buck]

The light rail will be coming from Twin Cities to Duluth soon with several stops in between. *It would be great to drive to one of those stops and go either north or south. *But how do you handle children, packages etc? *I think people are very comfortable in their own vehicles. *With gas prices so low, I suspect that the average sheeple will simply start driving more anyway.

Pine

How to handle kids on a train or anywhere else for that matter? Easy, make
them mind you with good family discipline which should already be in place.

As to driving.......
only a moron would go back to business as usual today and yes, America
does have more than their share of morons. ::)

[RangerRick]

I guess if the bus had four wheel drive they could get back to my place but just how does that bus get to you living in that exclusive gated community you told all us poor ignorant rednecks about last year? All I can figure is you must drive your Lexus down to the guard shack and park. It must be a real financial burden for you sitting there with the engine/air conditioner/heater running waiting on public transportation just so you can do your part to promote mass transit for us little people. And then being subjected to that painful walk all the way from Lexus to bus, oh my. Just how do you manage to do all that walking in the mall in your terribly claimed disabled condition? Truly you are a hero to us all.

:(

Rick

[Michael32170]

I tried the bus when I was in college. I had to change twice (3 bus rides) to go 19 miles and it took 2+ hours. That's the problem with public transportatin, it never goes where I need to go, and if it does, only in a massively time consuming way. Japan public transportation whas worse. It took me 2+ hours to go 8 miles.

[Michael32170]

Hey, if public transporation is more efficient, then start a business being public transportation company. Be the first in the business.

[gregabob]

I quit riding the bus when I got a moped-the bus took 45 mins to go 15 miles. I could go the same distance in 30 and carry stuff.

[ryanmercer]

I can drive to work in 10 minutes in rush hour... if I wanted to ride a bus... that would be... about a 90 minute trip.