Local control after TSHTF

[kawalekm]

With the anarchy in Iraq you can see how local groups, and outsiders, try to gain control of areas and impose their wills. It also reminds me of a disaster novel I read entitled "The Rift" by Walter Williams. Basicly, the story focuses on a small group of people trying to survive along the Mississippi river after a giant earthquake hits the New Madrid fault. The problems they face include a crazy preacher who thinks the quake is the rapture and plans on poisoning all the refuges he attracts, and a KKK sherif who sets up a negro death camp to eliminate black refuges.

Real events, and stories like these give me pause and makes me think about what local groups in my area might try to take control and impose their will on me. Here in California, I can imagine local latino gangs trying to take control and cowing residents into submittion. What groups in your local areas would you be worrying about if TSHTF?

[tufhelp]

Oddly enough, or perhaps not so odd, the “authorities” as recognized before the SHTF started. Them doing things for the “common good” that would attempt to separate me from my hard earned emergency supplies and resources – I think that is where the real first threat will come from, later, the roving gangs and bands of thugs and nare-do-wells…

[the_grizz]

bosnia,kosovo,liberia,sierre leone all places i have been and know first hand what happens. i am afraid here will be combination of these things. jmho

[Txanne]

Marshall law is closer than most even dream.


And They are going to want our stuff--all our stuff.


I know durning Hurricane Rita---we only unloaded gasoline after dark----[[when we could find it ]] we thought secrecy best.

There was a strict curfew. Period!!

We knew danger was there---looters we caught and one guy shot looting.

And this was just a hurricane--imagine an invasion etc--the danger and the adrenalyn pumping---its going to be rough--dangerous and we need to think about it--NOW!!

Txanne

[longshot]

if i look poor enough the gooberment might leave me alone with my bit of stuff, especially if they (anyone) dont know about it. ;D and if it comes down to some bully trying to become lord of the manor so to speak, well there are ways to nip that in the bud as well.
;)

ls

[WileyCoyote]

Have to agree with Txanne here.
Every single town, every single county, in every single state, six years ago, had to come up with a "Disaster Preparedness Plan". This plan takes into consideration every single local hazard/benefit/potential threat/potential reservoir/potential recovery aid in its areas - or is supposed to. The FedGov tied it to not only getting Federal grants to upgrade Fire and police departments as well as all gov institutions, but to getting FEMA assistance and/or money in the event of a problem. (We all saw how well THAT's worked); but still, all of that is supposed to be on record in a plan for not only mitigation of problems but recovery from them.

While this probably does not include "Joe and his wife own 32 acres and three guns and stockpile food"; it does include every water resource, electrical resource, etc. - again, or, it should contain these things.
How this could apply to a SHTF scenario - where does your water come from? A well? What aquifer do you tap? A Spring? What's it's source? City or county water? Where is its treatment plant, where is its source - can it be polluted or destroyed?
What about your electricity? Your natural gas? Your propane? Your fuel oil? Where does it come from - and can those trucks or lines be destroyed or blocked easily?

Where does your food come from? OK, you grow and hunt your own - how easily could your food source be corrupted or interrupted?

Think very carefully how this would all apply in the event of a natural disaster - now think how it would apply in a man-made or even government-made disaster. (No, I'm not going all tinfoil hat here - but what happens if your Mayor or Governor decides that the newly elected President isn't going to tell HIM what to do?)

Most of these plans are pie-in-the-sky, bureaucratic boondoggles of foolishness, written only so a little town of 5,000 can get a Homeland Security Helicopter grant or whatever... nevertheless, every public and large private resource in your area has been carefully delineated. How would that affect you?

Remember, each and every plan created is a matter of public record and is on file (or is supposed to be) not only with the FedGov, but the State, your County Office, and your City Hall.

[Txanne]

Have to agree with Txanne here.
Every single town, every single county, in every single state, six years ago, had to come up with a "Disaster Preparedness Plan". This plan takes into consideration every single local hazard/benefit/potential threat/potential reservoir/potential recovery aid in its areas - or is supposed to. The FedGov tied it to not only getting Federal grants to upgrade Fire and police departments as well as all gov institutions, but to getting FEMA assistance and/or money in the event of a problem. (We all saw how well THAT's worked); but still, all of that is supposed to be on record in a plan for not only mitigation of problems but recovery from them.

While this probably does not include "Joe and his wife own 32 acres and three guns and stockpile food"; it does include every water resource, electrical resource, etc. - again, or, it should contain these things.
How this could apply to a SHTF scenario - where does your water come from? A well? What aquifer do you tap? A Spring? What's it's source? City or county water? Where is its treatment plant, where is its source - can it be polluted or destroyed?
What about your electricity? Your natural gas? Your propane? Your fuel oil? Where does it come from - and can those trucks or lines be destroyed or blocked easily?

Where does your food come from? OK, you grow and hunt your own - how easily could your food source be corrupted or interrupted?

Think very carefully how this would all apply in the event of a natural disaster - now think how it would apply in a man-made or even government-made disaster. (No, I'm not going all *tinfoil hat here - but what happens if your Mayor or Governor decides that the newly elected President isn't going to tell HIM what to do?)

Most of these plans are pie-in-the-sky, bureaucratic boondoggles of foolishness, written only so a little town of 5,000 can get a Homeland Security Helicopter grant or whatever... nevertheless, every public and large private resource in your area has been carefully delineated. How would that affect you?

Remember, each and every plan created is a matter of public record and is on file (or is supposed to be) not only with the FedGov, but the State, your County Office, and your City Hall.




When Fema handed out water ice and MRE's here atfter Rita---THEY TOLD [[US]] HOW MANY WE COULD HAVE--HOW MUCH WATER AND ICE!!!


And Which brings up an excellent point[[WC said it ]]-----THEY will control the water---THEY did here--it was only on for a short time after we got a deisel generator up and running 00we could only use a small amount and it wasnt drinkable--??---

I was on propane---and had a stash of water---What IF joe-blow wasnt prepared with his 6 kids and THEY decide he needs my propane?? It can happen and I look for it.


We must put it in our minds and soak it up---We will not be in control----I was the one with the CCP---I took my truck each day and went for ice--water and MRE's for the over 20 that showed up at my sons house---Had to show Id to be able to get back into my own area--Now the Chief of Police knew me well---I lived right across the street from the P Station---BUT the troops sent in didnt.[[remember--Gov ordered troops--fema etc etc dont give a big rats toot WHO you are---you are expendable in a crisis situation.


Herb--on another forum--has a great thread on getting home---if TSHTF-----we will not have any freedom PEOPLE----we will not be able to leave our ASSIGNED areas----Nor get back to our homes---IF you dont have the proper id and the powers that be decide perhaps your a subversive etc etc or a trouble maker.

And they will out gun us--out number us----you think we know what we're going to do??

Nawwwww we just think we'll win----Txanne wearing her newest tin-foil hat.

Txanne

[jim]

Can being involved in CERT help out any?
jim

[CarolAnn]

I'm in agreement that the local PTBs might be our worst or first people to look out for. I'm recalling Katrina's devastation and how they wouldn't let truckloads of water in - or took them not to where the truckers were headed, but where THEY wanted the water to go. FEMA took over a working volunteer kitchen and turned the good food to crap . . . the list goes on.

Gangs may be a problem in cities, but for most of the country, the enemy is us.

Whatever supplies I have, preparations I've made I certainly do not and will not divulge to others, for that very reason.

[RangerRick]

Unless some means are undertaken to pay the troops (police, city/county/state employees) things will go down the tube fast as these folks will not work for free and will walk if their needs are not met immediately. Just as in Katrina - they walked and John Q Public was on his/her own. Consequently, if things went badly on the state level we would have a managable evolution, however if things got bad on a regional/national level as with a pandemic of some sort there will be NO local control. Expect anarchy because that is what we will have in my most humble opinion.

Rick

[333]

Peace,

I tend to agree on the anarchy for a little while cause folk with preparations are not gonna stand up and be counted right away. Its better to stay away until the majority of the panic and ensuing stupidity settles down. Of course the severity and circumstances of the shtf does play a factor.

I ll be taking care of my own laying low the best I can until I have to re associate with others in this case. I do not have much of an opinion on the local law in my area and their reactions , whether or not they will stay local or obey the omnipotent state or fed i am not sure I guess that would depend on the severity of the scenario.


333

[WileyCoyote]

I have to say...
That if TSHTF while I am still in my little area (we are moving after the first of the year to a more rural area) ... um, I'm one of the ones in charge. And I know that it won't be pretty or easy.

I had to write the EmerPrep plan for our area. I had to delineate all of our resources, plan whom we would call for cleanup, law enforcement, etc - and when.

In the initial phase of either a natural or man-made disaster, we will try to evacuate as many folks as possible, as rapidly as possible. Our area has no certified shelters in a 30 mile radius. We will be evacuating folk (not forcibly, but strongly suggesting) for their own safety, as nuts as that sounds - because we are right off of the interstate, and in previous near-disasters, we have had to deal with folks coming in from the interstate to pillage. We joke (and it isn't a joke) that we will have chainsaws in one hand, pistols in the other, to protect ourselves, our remaining citizens, and their property. How long we can do it without assistance remains to be seen - and like TxAnne says, the imported Feds won't know our people or whom we know to trust or not. I know some really nice folk who live in a crackhouse area - yet when we've had fires in their neighborhood they have always come out and carried hose and drinks for the firefighters. Outsiders will see them and think - "criminals". And indeed how long will anyone's helpful attitude last if they have to do without or are sick and dying because of a pandemic?

I trust my cops - odd as that sounds - because they are good young men with a real interest in helping others, not storm troopers. My chief is staid and quiet and reliable, and like me believes in the Constitution and individual rights AND responsibilities. So do most of my FD and town staff. We know what we can handle and what we can trust each other to handle, and what we will need help with, and when. That isn't always the case, even in surrounding towns and counties.

In the event of a pandemic, we will shut down the borders and not let anyone in or out. We will have to carefully parcel out supplies and check on our elderly and infirm. We are still small enough to do this. We will have to keep the water flowing and the sewer running - possibly on very limited staff, depending on who gets sick and when. We will have to have a place for disposal of garbage - and disposal of bodies from illness, if necessary. All of these things have to be thought out ahead of time so that everyone has a role to play.

Nevertheless, as circumstances progress, food and water and medical care become tight or non-existent, I fully expect folks to go over the edge. Keeping things working in an intolerable environment is easy - for up to a week, in a planned-for exiegency. After that things break down.

So wherever you are when a SHTF scenario occurs, you have to know not only what your opportunities are, what your resources are, but also what your limitations are and what to expect. Normal everyday people treated as human beings will usually respond as such - but if things go on for any length of time, or the disaster is so completely overwhelming that it takes out most of the working staff, then people will certainly revert to their animal instincts. In larger areas it will happen faster, because there is not that personal relationship with emergency workers and protective staff, and because politics and game-playing will get in the way of simple basic rules and common sense.

[madmarine]

When TSHTF i sincerely hope to be living deep in the woods. What i have, water, ammo, guns, food, fuels, etc. will be cleverly hidden and no one (and i do mean no one) will know where or how it is hidden. I fully believe we are on the fast track to either marshal law or anarchy. At the moment i feel they are one and the same. My family will immediately take positions in a 100% defensive posture. No one in what so ever.
When i was young i would have had faith in the local government and law but not today.
As an over the road truck driver i see things all over this nation and see how the situations in different areas of the country and fast supporting my theory of total marshal law. If anyone here does not live in total fear of the government, i hate to say this like this, but you are a fool.

[WRTN]

Not sure if any of you have read Patriots or not but it is not only a GOOD read...........it is PACKED with VERY relavant and accurate information pertaining to the subject matter of this thread. If you haven't read it, it is MUST read in my opinion. My wife and 15 year old daughter are reading it currently which has greatley helped in their understanding of the things I am trying to teach them. Be sure to read this book with a yellow highlighter so you can go back to review references.

http://www.rawles.to/patriots.htm

In reference to some of the comments and questions about how local law enforcement could or could not be relied upon to do the right thing.....................The local law enforcement will be the worst or the worst in that they have legal and lawful authority to seize and confiscate any materials that are viewed as survival neccesities in an emergency situation. Hence the need for an ample supply of BB&D (beans bullets & bandaids) .

[Archangel]

It was local police who took the ice and water from FEMA and got it to people. Local police have right thing over and over. I'm on cop, but I've through a few major problems. Take care of yourself and family. Lucifer's hamner is another good book.