My Travel Trailer Homestead [Archive]

Txanne

06-06-2007, 05:40 PM

*Hi--I have not posted on here for a very long time--but since I am in the process of doing this very same thing, I was hoping you would share some more details of how you did this. I have read the Travel Trailer Homesteading book, but was wondering if you had anything to add that would be helpful?? Did you add on at all to your trailer--are you on or off the grid--and do you have a woodstove in the trailer itself?? Thanks for answering--this kind of thing helps to keep me motivated! ;)

Maybe a very Small wood burner.

These Rv's have a dry interior--panel etc--and it doesnt take much to ignite it.

Smaller space means you need a vent--RV's usually have one to 3 that can allow for ventilation.

I am going to over-build a roof.

I have access to cresote poles---I will use as post--maybe building 6 to 12 inches above the rv roof[[air flow.]]

Now food and water storage becomes a priority.

I had plans for a block house that I thought of as also storage.

Lots of choices and I too am interested in different ideas.

annie

bantyhen

06-07-2007, 03:22 PM

Hey Annie--thanks for your thoughts--I am in the process of taking off the old paneling and ceiling panels--doing some reinsulating, then putting up 1/4 inch sheetrock on the walls. Will either paint, wallpaper or add different paneling when I am done with that. Since the trailer is staying put in one place, I also insulated the underneath and added plywood over that to help with the heat loss and to stabilize things! I hope to have my son build up the roof a little and add vents, etc.--that is way past my level of expetise though!!!!! ::) I had heard of others using a camp woodstove with success in the travel trailers--still pondering that....are you doing the work yourself???

Txanne

06-08-2007, 03:57 AM

Banty--HI!

Most of it---have my son cut the paneling for me---
One of the things I did do---was ck all the wiring while I had the old paneling and insulation out of it.
I too put new insulation in her---these things are easy bake ovens--the old ones anyway. And the bottom insulation was ok--but am going to [[board up the bottom in the winter---son said he could make a pattern for that--to fit over/around the wheels.
Hitting the floor in the winter --can be chilly! ;D

I am going with a very good congoleuim--dont want carpet. small traffic area and I have a dog.

I am hoping this is stationary also---want a add on room-/deck.-

Have run regular plumbing--to small septic system--

I Am going to put in a split system frig---elec/propane.

The wood burner--------If you have used one for years---do what your comfortable with.

But for new-comers to wood burners Be Very Careful.

I have used one for about 12 years.

It depends on the stove and how well you can control it.

I also believe different types of wood burner hotter and faster.

IT CAN GET AWAY FROM YOU!!

You would have to have it away from the wall.
this will take up space--lots of it---the wall will get very hot!

There are ways to insulate the wall----i had a sheet of metal with insulation behind it.
I also ck'ed it often to be sure it wasnt getting too hot.

I also so had a sheet of the old timey asbestos--under it---they are designed for this very thingg---floor insulation.

Please remember---it doesnt take much of a loose spark to start a fire.

I dont mean to deter you or scare you [[[yes I do ;D]]

Practice with your wood burner---out side if possible--learn its personality.

Some have to have an under the door air flow---mine did or it wouldnt catch and burn properly---strange but true--they need air to burner and exhaust smoke.

So if your Rv is air tight--you may encounter a problem there.

I believe each home/wood burner has its own[[personality]] and we have to learn what it is.

I do know its a cozy feeling---

I used a small propane heater this past winter--as I was ill and unable to go for my wood as I had for years.

But that was nice also.

In that small of an area --you wont burn all that much wood---

Let keep the ideas coming---I am a learner and Always open to new ays to survive----we even had a greeat thread on here once about bus living.

txanne

I am thinking of solar for it---wouldnt take much to run all I have.

JAK

06-13-2007, 02:11 PM

In cold climates there is a small fibreglass trailer that is more or less rectangular but with well rounded corners that used to be very popular. I forget the name now. It has foam on the inside that is supposed to be fireproof, which makes it very warm. They are bigger than a Teardrop, but smaller than most travel trailers.

ArizonaSavage

07-24-2007, 02:56 PM

Hello everybody...
Great topic, and one that I've put some thought in to myself. I have a question though...hope it's not too silly. If you put a trailer on your own property and intend to live off the grid and such, what would you do for the septic system? It seems that a regular underground tank set-up would significantly increase the cost of the project. Outhouse, maybe? But then there are codes and laws and such, right? Anyway, just something I've wondered about.
John

Txanne

07-24-2007, 03:48 PM

Hello everybody...
* * Great topic, and one that I've put some thought in to myself. *I have a question though...hope it's not too silly. *If you put a trailer on your own property and intend to live off the grid and such, what would you do for the septic system? *It seems that a regular underground tank set-up would significantly increase the cost of the project. *Outhouse, maybe? *But then there are codes and laws and such, right? *Anyway, just something I've wondered about. *
John

John---I have 2 55 gallon drums [[barrels]] that I am putting down with plenty of field line.

When i lived off grid---my lease was classified as a deer lease--so an outhouse was acceptable.

My thoughts are---build it----all they can do [[law]] is make you tear it down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mine was hid behind my old house--and my area was very wooded and wayyyyyyyyyyy out in the country.

I think it depends on the land---and I am not into letting anyone tell me what I can do or not do!!

There is also the commercial little potties---you take the bottom off and empty it.[[winter comfort! ;D

Sanitation is a priorty---but I hate anyone telling me how to care for my sanitation. i think we have sense enough to know how to be sanitary!!

Txanne

bee_pipes

07-24-2007, 03:53 PM

Hello everybody...
...what would you do for the septic system? It seems that a regular underground tank set-up would significantly increase the cost of the project. Outhouse, maybe? But then there are codes and laws and such, right? Anyway, just something I've wondered about...

Composting toilets and greywater recycling systems. For homemade, check out:
http://weblife.org/humanure/default.html

Regards,
Pat

bantyhen

07-26-2007, 04:03 PM

I am using a composting toilet/greywater system here. It is actually legal in Washington State to do this, and it works very well for the area I am in where they have to use mound systems, or other extremely expensive and elaborate systems because of the soil structure and groundwater for a regular septic tank arrangement. I have heard that the two barrel system Txanne is using also works very well--guess it just depends where you are, as well as who and how close your neighbors are!! *;D

FarmMama

11-12-2011, 09:08 PM

We're gearing up to move into a trailer on my in-law's vacant land and rent out our house. Y'all gave me some good ideas!
Any more advice?

:D

cuppajoe

11-12-2011, 10:15 PM

RV life is great ,,,TILL winter...we are in a 32ft motor home till the house gets finished,,,not bad little cramped but its doable...beats being in town!

kfander

11-13-2011, 05:06 AM

I lived in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas for awhile, and have come across several houses that were built around a travel trailer or mobile home. With additions made on all sides of the trailer, the trailer itself become engulfed by the home, as the years go by. It makes for interesting architecture.

MooseToo

11-13-2011, 06:33 AM

We're gearing up to move into a trailer on my in-law's vacant land and rent out our house. Y'all gave me some good ideas!
Any more advice?

:D

a well-built and oversized roof-over structure protecting the trailer will prove to be a God-send - especially if you design it so that it can be readily and economically skinned when the trailer is finally removed -

HuntingHawk

11-14-2011, 03:23 PM

Give serious consideration to 20 & 40ft shipping containers. Price depends on the condition but a few years ago I had one delivered for $1,000.

HH

opsrto

11-15-2011, 05:31 AM

Dont count out Modular homes. I picked up one for under 2k. It is a 14x68. Plenty of room. Haveing a additional roof put over it for added protection.
I saw on CL today that someone had one for 1200. That is pretty cheap when you think about it. If you are dealling with a family vs single dwelling.

patience

11-15-2011, 05:50 AM

We are starting down this road for an old age retirement place. Will park it on our daughter and son in law's place, 32 acres that is steep hills and mostly forested. It backs up to a state forest and wildilfe is abundant. A well for water is not practical at all, so we plan to put a pole shed roof over the trailer and collect water into a cistern. Son in law is planning a pond for backup water. We will put in a septic system, but not immediately.

Just gave $1,800 for a 29 foot 1984 Coachmen bumper-pull trailer, with all the usual problems--soft spots in the floor, leaky roof, dead AC unit, old LP furnace that probably doesn't work, window crank gears worn out, etc. It looks pretty decent, in general, though, and he threw in an old 3500 watt generator. Presently, the trailer is sitting in our driveway just outside the shop where it is handy for all the rehab work, which could take a year or so. Just for me and my wife, so I will remove all the excess sleeping places in favor of more storage and one fairly large bedroom.

Refrigerator is electric only, and will run on solar PV. In the dark days of winter, we will use a cooler outside and put a timer on the fridge to turn it off at night, saving a lot of power. I'm thinking that four 175 watt panels I have on hand may do the trick feeding a forklift battery. Water pump for the trailer will be the standard 12 volt RV pump, with a hand well pump outside on the cistern for outdoor use and a backup.

So far, I have replaced the 4 dry rotted tires with decent used ones for the move to its' final parking place, cleaned and painted the wheels and bought a couple spare used tires. I had a bottle jack and 4 way lug wrench on hand for it, and a couple trailer jacks. It is levelled up and sitting on blocks at the moment.

The junkyard had some old campers where I salvaged a like new screen door to replace the ratty one, along with some foam pads to make cushions for a couch/storage box in the front end. The foam pads and the screen door cost me 20 bucks. I'm looking around home now for whatever we have on hand to throw at this whole project.

Meanwhile, wife and I went shopping for this. We got new 5" foam pads for a mattress. We'll stuff that into a bug-proof mattress cover and top it with one of those egg-crate foam mattress pads. Making the bed 4 feet wide and 76" long, so standard bedding will fit.

The Goodwill Store furnished coffee mugs, plates, bowls, Pyrex pie plate, and more for the kitchen at a buck apiece. Big Lots Store had good stainless stove tools cheap: egg turner, big fork, big spoon, etc.. Dollar General Store had stainless flatware, 4 place setting, plus extra teaspoons and a set of wooden spoons all for under 10 bucks. We had an extra bread knife, brushes, spatula, and other things. I bought 2 dozen cup hooks and started hanging these bigger items by the LP stove to save drawer space. It only came with one chair and a 2 seat bench for the dining table, but we found a matching chair at a flea market for 8 bucks.

I filled the cabinet under the sink with cleanser, scrubbie pads, Brillo Pads, dish soap (homemade), and a spare plastic bucket. We had a small (free) microwave that fit in the cubbyhole for it. Got an AM/FM/SW battery radio at Goodwill for 2 bucks. Have rechargables for all sizes of batteries and suitable chargers/small inverters to run them off the solar system. When we decide to move into it, I'll take the tiny 7", 12 volt (7watt) TV we have and the antenna. Reception is great on the ridgetop out there. I filled the medicine cabinet and bathroom supplies with the usual stuff from items on hand.

The steps at both doors were missing, so I have fabricated some new ones of aluminum tread plate. I want to seal up the "trunk" door on the back end of the trailer, where the spare tire and jack were stored. I'll insulate that heavily and make the storage room accessible from the inside, as part of the "pantry" storage all across the back end of the trailer in the end of the bedroom.

Canning food will be done in conjunction with our daughter, but we will keep our canners and stuff, and put our 2 burner LP hot-plate outside on the "porch" provided by the pole shed. The wringer washing machine and tubs go there, too. In bad weather, we can do some laundry at daughter's house. We will probably do a joint root cellar with the kids, for storing canned food. A small metal shed will house minimal garden tools, along with my hand carpenter toolbox, mechanic's tools, chainsaw, axe and suchlike. The corn sheller and gasoline powered burr mill goes in there too.

The pole shed will have a concrete floor, and the trailer will be underpinned with access doors. Buckets of grain and anything that won't be damaged by freezing will go under there.

Lots more to do on this project. Now it is time to start the carpentry work, fixing subfloors first, ripping out carpet and recovering with vinyl flooring to ease cleaning. Then, we get into modifying things for more storage. It is a challenge for a packrat prepper to stuff everything into this size place!

patience

11-15-2011, 06:39 AM

Heating and cooling plans. (Subject to modification.)
I have a couple rolls of foil covered bubble wrap that will go on the inside under the panelling, and plan to use styrofoam in the walls. On the outside, I'll make removable storm windows, with sheets of acrylic glazing and aluminum frames.

The screen doors also get acrylic glazing over them on the inside for winter (at the top), with a hinged, snap-latch panel to access the door handle of the outside door. The bottom half of the screen door gets a styrofoam insulated panel, covered with glued on wood panelling.

With a pole shed roof above it, the trailer will never get direct sun except on the southfacing side, and that will be shaded by the pole shed overhanging it. That should help a lot with cooling in hot weather. This particular location has a breeze night and morning almost every day. The solar panels will be mounted on the south facing side of the pole shed roof, keeping part of the summer sun off the roof. That pole shed roof gets a layer of used aluminum printing press sheets (like they sell at our newspaper office) on the underside to reflect heat up in summer. This will go on the bottom side of the trusses, leaving an open attic space, vented, but screened against bugs and bees.

Based on our daughter's experience in their home, we shouldn't need any AC except in very hot weather. We have a spare 5,000 BTU window unit that I plan to install through a wall and could be easily run with a small generator.

NCLee

11-17-2011, 02:27 PM

May I make a suggestion, Patience?

Hope so. :) As here goes....

Gut the interior, saving anything worth saving.

Draw a floor plan that works for you for maximum storage and livability at a fixed location, rather than being on the road.

Once you have everything out down to the studs, take a look at those. You may want to add some reinforcement to beef them up to handle heaver loads in terms of cabinets, shelving, etc.

With the bare bones exposed, you can more easily re-route wiring to where it's actually needed for your purposes.

With the bare bones exposed, you can caulk and insulate more thoroughly, including using expanded foam in tight spots.

With the bar bones exposed, you can relocate any previously existing partitions to better locations or omit them all together. For example, that tire storage area (if it's within the interior footprint) can be expanded, according to what you want to achive for that space. That's rather than being locked into a specific number of cubic feet of storage.

Then, before you being work on the walls, do whatever is needed to the floor. For example, put down sheets of underlayment, which may do dual duty. Help reinforce slightly soft spots and provide a smooth surface for your tile work.

If you do all but the final tile work or protect the floor after installing the tile, then there's less cutting and fitting for things to be installed (re-installed) once the floor repair work is done. For example, if you re-install a partition located x inches from its previous location....
(1) You won't have to make cuts in underlayment around the currently existing partition.
(2) Putting the newly located partition on the new underlayment will hide the nail holes, etc where the partition previously existed.
(3) If you lay the tile first, you won't have to do all those cuts to make the last pieces fit on either side of the partition, since the partition will sit on the tile.

Hope that makes sense.

FWIW, we gutted an old fifth-wheel rig and re-designed the layout to better suit our needs. Ended up with quite a bit more storage space. Re-designed the bath which originally only contained a toilet (Kept the black water tank configuration in place.)Moved the fresh water tank & pump from another location to under the sink in the bath. -- Example of re-configuring to meet our needs.

Shuffling things around and gained room for a dual fuel (LP & elec) refrigerator that replaced an built in ice box.

On another note, consider replacing some built in features with stand alone ones. Replace a convertable bed & dining table combo with a small kitchen table instead. If that would make the layout work better for you. For example, you can move the table when you need to for some reason. Or even take the legs off and store, if you want a Christmas tree in that spot for a week or 2.

Those are just some random thoughts to consider. Consider before you get so far into your renovation, it won't be worth labor and materials to back track.

In closing, we, too, were able to acquire quite a bit of RV sized/type items from salvage yards. Replaced a 2 burner cooktop, with a 4 burner w/oven. The dual fuel refrigerator, 12 volt light fixtures, etc. came from salvage a good prices.

Hope you find something useful within this.

Lee

MYellowRose

11-17-2011, 06:54 PM

I live in a mobile home park and off to one side of one of the drives are two double wide trailers, there was a third but it was torn down with a backhoe last year & trashed. About a week ago the owner of the park had sewer lines run to both these trailers & all the trees & brush cleared out from around them. He intends to fix them up so he can rent them out. I was astounded when he told me that because I've been here since September '07 and they've set empty for goodness only knows how long before that. Out behind the northern most trailer was the shell of one of the really old, I'd guess '40's or '50's trailers, one of those that is rounded similar to an egg that's flat on the bottom. When we left this afternoon to take my SIL to work & pick the granddaughter's up from school it had been moved out near the drive. Don't know what he's going to do with it, trash it probably, but it's amazing to see something that is that old.

NCLee

11-18-2011, 04:30 AM

Some of the olders ones are going to scrap metal salvage. Aluminum siding, metal chassi, copper pumbing, and electrical wiring is being stripped out of them. What's remaining that doesn't have scrap metal value is ending up in landfills.

Around here, not much else can be done, as a permit to move older ones won't be given. If it doesn't meet code for the shape of the roof, it can not be used as a dwelling, any longer. (There are some other requirements, too. This is the one that irks me the most.)

FWIW, some of these old and well maintained mobile homes are better quality that some of what's coming out of the factory today. Just one example: REAL wood cabinet doors. Maybe two -- REAL wood paneling, not the sawdust/pasteboard vinyl covered stuff

Lee

patience

11-18-2011, 06:34 AM

NCLee,

YEP! That's pretty much what I had in mind. (Great minds think alike, and all that....)

We really like most of the floor plan, with minor exceptions and they are comparatively easy to fix. It is simple inside. Some of this space-clearing work has been done already. The big change we plan to make is eliminate the extra sleeping space in the very back end = a pair of fold down bunks. Will replace that with storage for food and clothing, etc.

The kitchen area is a good inline layout and it has a new electric only fridge. That's okay, since we plan to run that from solar PV. The bath is tiny, but does have a sit-in-the-tub shower, a tiny sink, and a Thetford chemical toilet that goes to the tank as usual. All that works fine, and the toilet could easily be hooked up to a septic system.

We do look at it as a fixed residence, and thus are planning things like trash the roof mounted AC and seal that opening, then put in a window unit if req'd. It would have to be run from a generator, but should be affordable due to the minimal need for AC at our location.

Yes, I plan to strip off the walls and re-do the wood in there, since it has had some leaks in the past and there are a ouple soft spots in the floors, too. That means some added floor joists and new subfloor. Eliminate the carpet and go with vinyl foors for easy cleaning and to get rid of allergy causing dust is carpet.

Lots of work to this. Some will have to wait for better weather, but most can be done this winter. We are just exploring the setup now and learning about it by stocking the place with whatever won't freeze and see what storage we have, or will need. By doing this slowly we can take advantage of cheap sources for stuff--yard sales, Goodwill Store, Dollar Store sales, etc., besides giving us time to dig through what we have on hand to fill it up.

It's a fun project! :D

cinok

11-18-2011, 02:29 PM

Patience,
Please don't take this wrong but an old trailer with no water supply is not what I would thing of for a retirement place while I don't know what age you guys are or what health you all are in that sounds like a recipe for disaster if something was to impede you all.'

patience

11-19-2011, 03:06 PM

cinok,

We live with a cistern for a water supply now. The plan is, cistern and a 12 volt pump powered by solar PV, with a hand well pump for backup to that. There is "city" water available on the place, but nobody wants to drink it!

On our hilltop location, a well would be impractical. It is only 3 ft. to 8 ft. down to bedrock there, so it would be rock-drilling until you get through the limestone cap, anywhere from 50 feet to 200 feet thick here. Too costly, and then you are stuck with a DEEP well that requires a serious pump to get the water out, and no guarantee of water quality, either, after you spend many thousands of $$ to drill that well.

So, a cistern is the most practical answer. The pond is backup supply for fire-fighting, since this location is WAY out in the boonies, and quite a ways to the volunteer fire dept. Not so worried about a home or trailer fire (no wood stove in that thing!) as we are sensibly concerned about forest fires. They are rare, but do happen. So, you keep a "green belt" around your residence, have a metal roof, and a water supply handy to deal with it.

FWIW, we are age 65 now. The idea is, our trailer will be about 50 yards from our daughter and son in law's home, so assistance is available for when we get too feeble to take care of everything ourselves. It is our answer to old age care. I get to be the family gardener and care for whatever livestock, carry in the firewood and kindling for DD's stove, keep an eye on the place when they are gone, etc. My wife will probably do some sewing and do a lot of canning food for the extended family, and suchlike. It's the same sort of thing that our families have done for the past dozen generations that we know about.

I have at least a year to get this old trailer restored to top shape. Working on that at the moment. Like NCLee suggested, it will get the whole treatment. Flooring ripped up and replaced, structural problems fixed, new wiring (all 12 volt except the fridge), new LP gas from tanks and (COPPER, not steel that rusts out) gas lines to furnace, and whatever else it needs. It is more or less a "kit", the way I look at it. It has tax advantages, too.

cinok

11-19-2011, 04:07 PM

I did not realize that you all were that close to family.

countryjo

11-20-2011, 11:38 PM

Just one more idea.....We lived in our trailer in a park while we were at the ocean, I bought regular steps to get in and out of trailer, they were iron but could be build with lumber, it made it so much easier getting in and out. Mine even had a railing to hold on too. So nice if it's wet or like some places have snow. I'm using mine on my back porch now.

NCLee

11-21-2011, 04:17 AM

Good point about the steps. Our travel trailer has a single pull out step that's narrow. Instead of using it, we have a sturdy plastic 2 step kitchen stool that we put in front of the door. Since the yard isn't level where we parked our leveled trailer, the 2 step version is a perfect height. Easy to stow just inside the door to keep it out of the weather (sun) when we're not using the trailer.

Lee

patience

11-23-2011, 07:17 AM

I just went to all the trouble to build some new steps for our trailer. I used polished aluminum tread plate that I had on hand, did a nice job getting it formed into a very strong box shape for the step, and planned to use aluminum to attach it to the trailer, since it won't rust or ever need painted.

Meanwhile, I was puttering around inside the trailer and laid some cement blocks in front of the doors for temporary steps. The concrete blocks are REALLY sturdy, never need painted, took no trouble at all to install, and are, well, solid as a rock. To heck with metal steps. I tossed my aluminum ones back into the scrap pile. :o

We have been making a little progress on this deal. I have been adding dry foodstuffs that we will want in the cabinets--nothing that will freeze. I'm putting them all into mouse-proof containers, either glass jars or plastic jars and boxes. The idea is to figure out how much storage space we need in there, and make that storage as efficient as possible. My goal is a year's supply of food, and it looks like I can do it. Canned goods will take a lot of space, so I'm working on that.

The two bunks in the very back end will become canned goods storage. That means to add a shelf between the bunks for more shelf space, and to keep the food on the lower shelves where the temps will be lower. The upper shelves will be used for clothing, paper goods, and such that don't care about the temp. I can get 18 cubic feet of canned goods under the couch in the living room area.

We may opt to get a truck reefer body to put on the site for storing outdoor tools and for a modest work area, and a place to store bulk grains--wheat and corn for us and a few chickens, plus some feed supplement and the gasoline powered burr mill. The whole deal is supposed to be off-grid, and as sustainable as possible, but I haven't come up with a better way to power a big burr mill. I have a collection of all the common long-handled tools, like rake, hoe, shovels, etc., that are spares I got for near nothing. Got a collection of steel Tee posts, chicken wire, metal roofing to build a tiny chicken house, etc. We will share the hens with the kids.

Propane will provide winter heat (NO wood stove in a trailer--too many of them burn down), and also do the cooking in bad weather. A small wood cook stove outside the trailer under the pole shed shelter will do cooking most of the time. Don't have that wood cook stove yet. I might have to build one to keep the cost down. This will keep cooking heat out of the trailer in summer, too, just like the old timers did with a sumer kitchen. We have on hand a bunch of good cast iron cookware for that, including a Dutch Oven. I found a very good charcoal grille int eh barn that somebody gave us long ago and a couple bags of charcoal, so I gave 75 cents for a long handled spatula at the Goodwill and 2 bucks for a can of charcoal starter.

We are still thinking about this, trying to avoid pitfalls.

countryjo

11-23-2011, 09:30 PM

ok Did I miss something? When did you decide to give up the place your in now to go live in the trailer? I thought that you had done to much work on the place your in now, that was your retirement place. Any way just wondering when things changed!
Wishing you the best where ever you retire too.

NCLee

11-24-2011, 08:49 AM

Patience, good point about the cement blocks. That's what we used when we moved out here into a single wide mobile home. Same thing I use right now for my shop entrance.

Re: Wood stove / summer kitchen. Some thoughts.

I'm thinking that your pole shed, is simply a roof on posts? Is that right? If so, consider turning it into a convertable 3 season porch. At it's most simple level, wrap the side walls in 6 mil clear plastic during the cold months. Use roofing nails with plastic washers (can't remember the name of them - bought at Lowes - green washers). They do a good job of holding the plastic in place without tearing out where regular nails or staples would pull through. If wind is a problem, help support the plastic with lathe strips nailed/stapled outside the posts. Enclosing all or some walls (sides) with screen wire outside of the posts, followed by the wrap in plastic is another way to help resist the pressure of the wind.

There are other more expensive measures you can take to temporary make the area more comforable in the winter. Removable fiberglassed frames, for example. Same thing with some frames covered with metal roofing. Just depends on what's economical in your area.

Somewhere around your trailer, set up a primative kitchen. A cowbody kitchen. With your skills and resources, it shouldn't take you long to make one of these for your Dutchoven. http://www.chuckwagonsupply.com/catpage1.html#item1 or this: http://www.chuckwagonsupply.com/catpage1.html#dandi

I made the equivalent to one of these (pix upper left), using black pipe along with couplings, elbows & tees. It doubles as a large adjustable height grill by hanging an expanded metal covered frame with chains and S hooks. http://www.campfirecafe.com/00_open-fire-articles.htm Rather than using the hooks (which I'm sure you can make) I use S hooks and various lengths of chain to adjust the height of hanging pots.

Again, much of this, you can make yourself, not only to save money, but also for personal satisifaction, and, possibly items of barter interest, if/when the need arises. http://cowboycampfiregrills.com/grills.htm

Moving on.... outdoor cooking isn't confined to man made materials. Here's one of my favorite photo's of a Dakota stove. http://www.primitiveways.com/index.html Scroll down a bit. While you're there, also check out the other items relating to primative cooking techniques. Nothing wrong with incorporating old concepts into your new summer kitchen. :)

Want a trail stove? Need an extra burner? http://www.backpacking.net/makegear/falk-woodstove/index.html More? http://www.backpacking.net/makegear.html

Need a tripod? Here's one link of many that I saved. http://www.deltablues.net/tripod.html

Don't forget earth ovens, especially since you can shelter yours from the rain. Many plans on the net, from simple/basic to elaborate/expensive. Here's a starter site, if you interested in having one of these in your outdoor summer kitchen. http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/2002-10-01/Build-Your-Own-Wood-Fired-Earth-Oven.aspx More: http://www.ehow.com/how_2084844_build-earth-oven.html Additional keywords: Adobe Oven or Clay Oven

As you know, one of my goals is to have as many ways to cook, as possible, regardless of what the future may bring. That includes what can be done in the backyard, if push comes to shove. For example, I have 3 large disc blades that can become fire bowls sitting on discarded pickup truck wheels (rims). A storm sewer grate found at a flea market, sitting on bricks, blocks, rocks becomes a cooking grate for frying pans & pots. Or, it can put it on a pair of flea market andirons. Have a couple of sets of fireplace tools ($5-10/ea at flea/yard sales) to work the fire, as needed. Stack of cement blocks at the ready to be configured into whatever pit design is needed at the time. From flat pavers to 8" ones.

When you fire up google with keywords: cowboy cooking, native cooking, primative cooking, camp cooking, Dutch Oven recipes, Dakota Stoves, etc. don't forget to add solar cooking to your list.

Oh... before I close. No need to stock up on charcoal lighter fluid. Either make or buy a charcoal lighter chimney. Make one from a #10 food can and handle with pliers. Or, stop by WalMart (where I bought my first one) or Lowes for a larger capacity, more costly version. I haven't bought fluid in years, as a wad of newspaper will start charcoal just as quickly. Other starter materials, too, from dryer lint and candle wax, to chunks of artifical fireplace logs, to using the side burner of a gas grill, to using a propane torch for a couple of minutes.

In closing, I have 5 - 1 1/2" - notebooks in my DIY library on the subject of "Outdoor Cooking", gleaned over the past few years from a wide variety of sources. That's in addition to "camping", "BBQing" and other books aquired over the last 40 years or so. When it's too disagreeable to work outside, start building yours. Lots of stuff you can do to make your outdoor/summer kitchen all you want it to be.

Lee

patience

11-25-2011, 05:53 AM

countryjo,

Yes, we will stay retired where we are now, with shop business when needed, gardens, water supply, etc., so I wouldn't give up all this easily. But the time will come when we are a bit too old to cope with all that. So, the trailer is ultimately for when we need someone close in case we get senile and prone to wander off or something... :p Also, hope it never happens, but if the need should arise to get somewhere less exposed (our home is on a highway), that trailer in the woods would sure beat a tent... Just looking ahead here.

NCLee,

Yeah, I thought about the enclosure thing some, but not decided what to do there. Some of it depends on available money and materials, and some on the prevailing winds and other local stuff. For instance, the local sawmills sell log slabs in bundles for firewood.

I have thought about having them run a truckload through the edger to get same-width pieces, then use it for "siding" that would look like a log cabin. Do that up about halfway on the sides of the pole shed, with a sheet of that thin foam insulation under it for windproofing. Then, the upper half could be treated like you said with screen and plastic in winter. Sorta like a shelter house at a state park.

I dunno. That is all air castles for the moment.

Yeah, I can start charcoal like any campfire, but the can of lighter fluid is just a quick answer for now. The old fire starting methods burn cleaner, too--no petroleum smell to burn off before you can cook! It will take me some time to work through researching all the ideas you posted here. That's a good job for a nasty winter day. I'll save the links. ;)

The Dutch Oven has a bail, so it would work with a tripod. I've seen some made by local blacksmiths that have a height adjustment rig, too, for controlling cooking heat. One more thing on the to-do list.

countryjo

11-25-2011, 10:07 AM

Patience, I'm glad this a just in case home and you can stay where you are , it sounds like you have a nice setup where you are, but it good to have plan B as they say......since our Son lives in the front house on our 4.43 Ac. this is our plan A and B. We build our house and it's under 900 sq ft. so its just perfect for us. Were not hidden in trees but we are surround by nice neighbors. We may have to learn to spent less on food and no traveling. I been stocking up on things that have been going up on price. I think it helps I didn't grow up rich, so I know I can make do. It's good Hubby and Son can fix things, Dryer went out two weeks ago and now he's working on the SUV. We got new tires but I had him save the old ones , just in case we may need again.
Anyway enjoy hearing what your up too, never a dull moment.

patience

11-25-2011, 08:21 PM

countryjo,

Yeah, I save all our used tires, too. Got a pretty good collection now, and bought a Harbor Freight manual tire changer and bubble balancer. Bought 50 lbs. of used tire weights from the tire shop as scrap lead (50 cents/pound) and crimped the clips back on them. They work nicely. O'Rielly's had the pliers for installing and removing tire weights for $12. Got some tire repair stuff--patches, new valve stems, and all that at the farm store, so I can keep rubber on our stuff now. Got maybe 100 bucks in the whole works. I've already got that back in patching and balancing some, so from here on it is all profit. I store the old ones by wrapping them in a plastic trash bag, or bike tires I wrap with Saran wrap to keep air away from them and prevent ozone damage. Keep them in the barn where it's cool, which slows aging. Bicycle inner tubes, I inflate enough to hold their shape and store them inside a tire that is wrapped. That prevents stress cracks in new tubes, which they will get if left all wadded up in the box. I clean the tire bead with brake fluid before attempting to mount a tire. It lubes the operation and doesn't damage the rubber.

I just put 4 used tires on the RV trailer, bought at another junkyard for 20 bucks each, since I didn't have any that size. I got a couple spares while I was there, too. This thing is never going to travel more than 15 miles in its' life, so used is okay. My daughter has NEVER bought a new tire in her life! Finds them at gas stations and such for $10 to $20 each and gets 10K to 20K miles out of them. Since Obummer put the big import tax on tires, this makes a difference! (Almost all tires are NOT made in the US now.)

NCLee

11-26-2011, 03:19 AM

Tip: (Knowing you, you've probably alread done this, but just in case....)

Now, and again after you move it, put your trailer on jacks or blocks to get the weight off the tires. That, plus protecting the tires from the sun will help prolong their life. Even though you don't anticipate putting many miles on those tires, life has a way of changing our plans, from time to time. :wink:

Lee

countryjo

11-26-2011, 04:21 AM

Crazy Cow, Sorry we over took your thread, hope you post again and let us know how your doing? This is a interesting subject.

patience

11-26-2011, 06:24 AM

Crazy Cow,
Thanks for the tip on the book! I'm ordering that one today, and maybe another one on Amazon. I have a lot to learn about this.

NCLee,
Yes, to the blocks. I used a big ole floor jack* I have to lift it just slightly and get the trailer levelled up on 4 blocks in the driveway. The blocks are sitting on gravel and I put a piece of 2 x 8 on top of each to keep from cracking the blocks. There is still some weight on the tires, but not much. I learned that the whole trailer has a bit of a twist in it. The front end is dead level, side to side, but the back end is out of level about an inch. No big deal, but it brought to mind that when I re-do panelling and such, I'd better have it as level as I can get it! Otherwise, the twist will be there forever. These things are built like airplanes, where the real strength is in the skin on the box.

Boy, do I have a LOT to learn here....

* The floor jack was probably made 50+ years ago, a Blackhawk brand (very good) and rated to 1 1/2 tons. (I have lifted half of a 5 ton log skidder with it--so much for ratings.) It came from the county landfill and was rusted solid and the cylinder full of water when I got it. It took some heat 'n beat, plus a lot of oil to get it moving again, then flush out the cylinder a couple times with oil. That's all it took and I've abused it lifting 2 -3 tons ever since! Like most of my stuff, it's salvage. I did get it sandblasted and give it a new coat of paint.

Anyway, a rebuilt trailer is right in line with everything else on the place. Almost everything we have was junk before we got it. LOL

Quietgentleman

11-26-2011, 01:27 PM

patience

11-29-2011, 07:35 PM

Quietgentleman,

Thanks. I have some 9 gauge x 3/4" expanded metal, the same as used on car trailer floors, not flattened smooth, but left as-pierced, with the twisted appearance. Great for scraping boots!. But, I was loathe to use it because it rusts so easily. Have to keep paint on it constantly, or it will be quickly rusted. Probably I should reconsider using that for attached steps. ;)

NCLee

11-30-2011, 01:55 PM

Patience, let them rust. For some things, IMHO, it just isn't worth the battle. Sure, they'll probably look terrible with the first flash rust. But give it time, and that ugly bright orange rust will tranform to the dark brown associated with old farm machinery. Just make sure the bottom portion isn't sitting directly on the ground, in contact with moist soil. Set on pavers or PT boards. Or, perhaps coat the bottom of the frame with roofing compound to hold moisture at bay.

Will painting an area that receives high traffic be worth the effort? Sanding (sand blasting) to re-prime over and over again, may cause the metal to fail faster than letting a smooth coat of rust protect the metal underneath.

Just a thought.
Lee

Quietgentleman

12-01-2011, 03:52 PM

The ones I have now are that rusted brown NCLee spoke of. My next set is going to be powder coated. I'm going to do a mat black finish of the expanded metal and try and match my trim color as best I can for the railings. During the warm months I plan one having a thick rubber mat on the landing and steps to make it easier on bare feet. I just haven't figured out how to keep the mats on the steps and be easy to remove and install.

QGM

NCLee

12-01-2011, 04:07 PM

Lace it on with zip-ties, from the underside. End of the season a small pair of cutting pliers will make "unlacing" easy.

Lee

patience

12-02-2011, 07:56 PM

Might just get some scraps of indoor/outdoor carpet for summer to tie on, then trash it at the end of the season?

NCLee

12-03-2011, 03:18 AM

Why trash at at the end of the season? Clip off the ties, roll it up for the winter. It's already cut to fit. Holes punched for the ties, etc. Most of that stuff will last for several years.

Heck, even regular carpet will last for several years outdoors. With regular carpet, turn it upside down to put on your steps. It's easier to sweep off the debris that can accumulate. FWIW, I use regular discarded upside down carpet, nailed to the ground with 20 penny nails, anywhere mud, cleanup, mowing is an issue. For example, in front of my shop, have about a 12' area covered with upside down carpet. Been there for years. Makes for a good work surface (bettern dirt!) that's easy to sweep or blow off from time to time. Plus, it's a whole sight easier to find a dropped screw or nut.

Also, have part of our outdoor kitchen on upside down carpet, too. It's under a 10'x20' canopy in front of our travel trailer. Weed barrier. No mowing needed under the tables and chairs. No dust from dry dirt being stirred up. Easy on the feet. When the humidity isn't in the can't tolerate it range, hose down the carpet for a natural cooling effect in summer. That's without making a muddy mess! (As would happen when either dirt or grass is watered for that purpose.

That upside down carpet can be swept, blown off, raked off (leaves in fall) or hosed off, as needed.

Lee

Quietgentleman

12-03-2011, 12:53 PM

Carpets doesn't have enough beef between your feet and the metal to make it comfortable to walk on barefoot. The rubber mats I'm using are about a half inch thick. I have them in my shop where I stand a lot. It's amazing how much it helps standing on one of those than standing on bare concrete.

Lee I don't know where my mind was but the idea of the zip ties is great. It's amazing how some of the simplest ideas can evade a person. Thanks for the idea.

If I had my way I'd make it totally out of stainless but I'm pretty sure that is totally cost prohibited. But boy that would be a great maintenance free steps and little deck.

QGM

NCLee

12-03-2011, 01:55 PM

QGM, handn't really though through the effects on bare feet with regular, and especially indoor/outdoor carpet on expanded metal. Good point, especially since the metal will probably wear through the carpet pretty quickly. Definitely something thicker would be in order.

Here's another thought. Bolt decking boards to the treads during the summer. Mark from the underside where 1/4" or 3/8" bolts (whatever size will fit) will go through the mesh. Use round head bolts with washers (?) inserted from the top. (Drill holes along the edges of the landing & steps.) Use washers and nuts underneath to secure. If the available colors work, use porch paint mixed with a little sand for traction, to coordinate with your trailer color scheme. Or, simply seal for natural wood look. Or, stain & seal. When winter arrives, unbolt and stow away for the next season.

Man, do I know what you mean about rubber mats and concrete floors. Even those cheap kitchen "foam" mats are a big help when one can be put down where I'll be doing a lot of standing for a while. Quite often I help with prep work for various church meals and food fundraisers at our church. Fellowship Hall floor is concrete. There I keep one of those foam mats for use away from the sink. At the sink, we have a long horse stall mat cut to fit. (I think they said that was the source of that inch thick mat. My poor feet and legs appreciate it after a few hours of chopping and peeling.

Can't tell you how thankful I am, from that standpoint, that my shop floors are wood. Even they need a little mat assistance in some spots. :)

I'm glad the zip tie idea was helpful. Appreciate you letting me know the idea was worthwhile for your project.

Lee

patience

12-03-2011, 03:06 PM

My wife is an internet junkie. (I ain't admitting to anything. :p) So, she wanted a place to put the computer in the trailer. A friend called a couple days ago and offered me a leftover commercial cabinet of some sort, which provided a countertop and leg material.

I used some thin stainless brackets to attach the 1 1/2" top to the 3/4" "leg" (a piece of coated particle board, 12" wide x 28" tall). This makes the top 29 1/2" high, suitable for desk height. The other end of the top is attached to the side of a closet with more stainless brackets and screws. The "leg" board is also attached to the floor with an angle bracket. SOLID AS A ROCK! That is saying something, when you are working in a trailer that has very skimpy framing.

I learned a lot about trailer construction doing this. The outer walls are framed with 2 x 2 or less, and those are widely spaced. Nothing there to attach a sturdy shelf to the outer wall. Hmm.

I found that the whole thing is assembled with a staple gun! So, I got out the old heavy duty Swingline and some 9/16" long staples to beef up some areas. The closet beside the new desk had been worked on and a couple braces left out, so I put those back and re-stapled the "floor" of the closet--a piece of 3/16" thick panelling.

After working on heavy equipment and farm stuff, this thing reminds me more of an airplane! Honestly, I think they count on the outer skin and the interior panelling for a lot of strength in these things. If one small item is damaged or missing, the strength of the whole thing is compromised more than you might think.

This all has decided me to tear off the interior panelling before I go any further. Gotta see what is under there, and if it needs any attention before I go building in a lot of stuff. I don't like to be surprised by major problems! :eek: But, I don't think it is too bad in there from what I have seen.

Another buddy came by today and looked it over. It seems he used to travel doing warranty repairs on trailers! Has a barn loft full of stuff he used--lots of insulation, trim, etc. This could work out nicely, since he needs some shop work done now and then... :D

NCLee

12-03-2011, 04:27 PM

I learned a lot about trailer construction doing this. The outer walls are framed with 2 x 2 or less, and those are widely spaced. Nothing there to attach a sturdy shelf to the outer wall. Hmm.

I found that the whole thing is assembled with a staple gun! So, I got out the old heavy duty Swingline and some 9/16" long staples to beef up some areas. The closet beside the new desk had been worked on and a couple braces left out, so I put those back and re-stapled the "floor" of the closet--a piece of 3/16" thick panelling.

------------
This all has decided me to tear off the interior panelling before I go any further. Gotta see what is under there, and if it needs any attention before I go building in a lot of stuff.

Yep. Staples guns are the primary tool of use. I have those staples with inch and a half legs. Almost impossible to get them out, especially if you're gutting the inside and the staple was driven from the other side. Thank goodness they also use square drive screws. (At least the ones I've fooled with used those.)

Don't be surprised to run into some 1 by, too. I've encountered some of that in addition to 2by2 "studs" and such. All of this is done to keep the weight of the trailer as low as possible. That's why you probaby don't have cabinets with backs in them. Just a cross brace for a place to hang it or attach to the side wall for base cabinets.

Yes, do go ahead and rip out the paneling, now, if you're planning to replace it anyway. Can't remember if you've previously mention that in your plans. Before you recover those studs, put some masking tape on the floor and ceiling showing their locations. (Or some other marking method that works for you.) Makes it easier to hit those small studs on center. In places where you know you're going to need extra support, sister another 1x2 or 2x2. Just don't go overboard, ;) with adding extra weight, since you've got to move it later.

You're lucky to have a source for trim and such. It's a plain to try to make standard size trim work or cut it down to "make" it fit.

Lee

patience

12-05-2011, 03:15 PM

NCLee,

Well, I won't get silly with extra weight, but I do plan to add a lot of strength to this thing. Not worried about moving it. I know some folks with BIG trucks made for the job. A couple of them even owe me money! :yes2: The guy that has the trim, also has Dow Corning insulation made for trailers, so, yeah, we're gonna make a deal of some sort.

Yes on the square drive screws, too. Got scads of them in there. I didn't have a driver to fit, but had several slightly larger ones, so I ground one to fit. That took out all the light fixtures.

Yes, the panelling is coming out, and since the ceiling has signs of water damage, it is all coming out, too. I may do the ceiling first, so if there is structure to fix, I can do that before I work on the roof.

I think I've decided on white Melamine coated Masonite for the ceiling. No finishing required, it is cheap enough, and only about 1/8" thick. If I use screws, it gets to be pretty solid stuff. Lots of light reflectivity, too. No idea on what to choose for the wall covering yet. Insulation and wiring comes first there.

I got a look at the breaker box and DC fuse panel, and decided that all that has gotta go. Not only is it old, but it was cheap stuff to start with. This thing will meet code when it goes back together.