Fire starting

[hunter63]

As there has been some discussion on fire starting, guess I just wondering what everyones ideas are for
"The Back Up Plan"

Some thoughts;

Fire= heat, signaling, protection, boiling water.

Ways= lighters(all kinds), matches (all kinds), metal matches(flint and steel w/magnesium), piece of flint/steel (stone), lens (glasses, bottles, ice), fire bow/board (shoe string for bow), fire board (manual rubbing), battery/steel wool, worn out "Bic"(for spark)tinder (steel wool),fire "piston" (compressed air, possible but expensive), gun (remove bullet/powder, fire primer into tender/powder, alum can/chocolate (parabolic mirror).

Any other ideas??

Scenario= Plane crash/ what would you logically carry with you?
Plane crash/commercial=Not allowed=lighter/matches, gun, knife.

Not sure= flint and steel, parabolic mirror (real one), metal match, fire piston, steel wool.

Leaves you with= glasses, bottles, lens, alum can/chocolate, shoe string, battery w/ any metal to short out, and any fire from the crash sight.

Private plane= any or all of the above (at least you SHOULD carry), BOB bag, flare gun, radio, signal mirror.

How many of these ways have you actually made fire?

Personally accomplished:
Matches, lighters (many kinds), metal matches, flint and steel, (found flint/knife blade), lens/parabolic mirror, muzzle loader/primer/oiled cloth/ powder, battery and steel wool.

Personally tried (and will continue to try):
Bow/board, alum can/polished with what ever, ice lens, "Bic" steel wool, pistol/primer, cloth/powder, fire piston (made one but can't get it to work).

Just wondering....................

[RangerRick]

Got a fire piston that is really cool. Georgie Patton said "pressure makes diamonds" well, it makes fire too.

Made fire about everyother way known to man, some easy some not so easy. My preference is waterproff mariners matches. They always work and will burn for approximately 20-30 seconds in most any situation.

The most important aspect in making fire is tinder in my opinion. I keep mine in a screw lid can about the size of a limon. When I need it, it's there and it's dry.

Rick

[hunter63]

RR, I agree with that 100%. A little prep goes a long way.

I find that "char cloth"is by far the easiest material to catch a spark.

Haven't tried this yet, but plan on looking for some while hunting this year, for catching a spark;
http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/tinder/tinderfungus/true.html

Anyway, my "primitive fire kit' contains a piece of flint, piece of a file (for the steel), char cloth, (part of the "secret" of doing it quickly and easily,)small candle and tender.
Kept in a metal snuff can, with one small hole punched in it.

Char cloth is cotton burned in the absence of air. Really catches a spark.

The above mentioned metal snuff can is used to create the char cloth by filling it with cotton gauze, t-shirt cloth, old sheets, what ever, just so it isn't treated with fire retardant.

Toss into fire, charcoal fire or what ever, let get hot till it quits smoking out of the small hole, pull out of fire and let cool.
P.S. any metal can will do, like a bandaid can.

Then I use the small candle, melt the wax, seal the hole, to make water tight.
Insert your flint, steel, candle, tender and you have a "fire starting kit.

Inside is "char cloth", strike the steel with the flint and it will catch and start glowing.
Place in your tender and blow on it and away you go.
When done, close the can and snuff out the char cloth to use again.

Funny story, several of us were using a kit like this to light our smokes at a saloon, dressed in our buckskins.

Bartender thought it was "cool", so we gave him one kit.

Year later went back to the same saloon, again dressed up, and he just about threw us out.
Seems he was trying out his "flint and steel", caught the curtains on fire, close call on burning the place down.
His wife almost killed him and threatened to do the same to us.

[RangerRick]

Char cloth is OK and I do keep it on hand but my favorite is shredded cedar in a lemon size ball. Even dry cedar has a little oil sap that really kick in when a little hot hits it. Of course, it's really what you're used to and comfortable with.

Rick

[DV8]

interesting idea on the char cloth & how to make it. (the char can) Deffinetly something I will try.

I will also try the shredded cedar. my question is since I have no cedar trees, would an aftermarket bag of cedar chips work the same way if shredded ? Also how fine to shread it ?

Hope ya reply, cause this REALLY intrests me, as the cedar could serve more than one purpose, such as keeping clothes smelling good, etc..

Thanx for the great ideas.

~DV8

[Lost_River]

I keep road flares in my vehicles. They will start a fire in no time!! ;D

[RangerRick]

And I've read they make good fuses for thermite grenades too.

;D

Rick

[stacey]

I just keep cotton balls saturated with vaseline in a tin.

[ozarksnick]

I keep my flint and steel kit with a bit of shredded bark for tender. Not sure what variety the bark is though, it is a certain kind. Very fine, paper thin. Lights very nicely.

I've never been able to start a flint and steel fire without the char cloth though. Would be interested in hearing more about y'all's thoughts on that.

[AARTY]

I have used 9v and 0000steelwool, steel/magnesium strikers. If you have ever had a fire in your clothes dryer than you know how flamable lint is! in my hunting pack I keep several balls of lint about the size of a walnut in an old snuff can. If I can get into an area that has white birch I will try to get some white birch bark, it is like paper and burns really well even when damp. I always try to keep some 550 cord or other light durable line in my pack, you can use it for just about anything. I have used the lint and magnesium striker to good effect, sounds wrong but using the magnesium and lint together it works better if the lint is just slightly damp. I guess the magnesium burnt so fast and hot that the lint got consumed to fast to catch the rest of the tinder(pine twigs,spanish moss) afire. Somehow my storage can got moisture in it and all the balls got damp, I had no other choice but to try them and they worked better than totally dry.

[wax]

Hunter- Scenario= Plane crash/ what would you logically carry with you? =Not allowed=lighter/matches, gun, knife.

Wax- You would have one of the biggest lighters in the world at your disposal... the plane!

Even a Twin Cub has a voltage system and they require a battery. Get you tinder bundle ready and have wood sitting by, cross some wires and you have fire.
You only need to produce 700 degrees F to cause a well formed tinder bundle to burn, a AAA battery will do it (in fact I have used hearing aid batteries but it takes much longer and is painful because you must keep pressure until it reaches that 700 mark. Protect your fingers but any material used will get hot).

Flint is a natural substance, it can be picked up anywhere between the equator and Northern Alaska. You must be able to identify it, so just practice while you are out on a walk.
Any steel will spark on any given granite like rock.

A lense will work in any sunlight, but you must have an understanding of why it is working.

Friction is a skill whether one is using a bow or not, it should be practiced before an emergency (as the fools on CBS's "Survivor" show every season!)

The key to any friction method is using soft grainy wood (cedar is absolutely the easiest) and providing an escape from your point of friction for the ember you are hoping to produce. His is accomplished the easiest way by cutting a notch and allowing the ember to fall into your tinder bundle.

As with everything concerning survival, the logical thing to carry with you is knowledge.
Survival is the hardest-easy thing you will ever do.

[JAK]

I like the flint and steel and char making kit. I need to get around to that. Good thing to practice. Wax is right about the knowledge being most important. Practical knowledge of course, meaning knowledge that you have practiced. I need to practice more. Anyhow, I think this thread started with the plane as an interesting scenario, because we are limited in what we can carry on now.

Other than the plane itself, and what you might find if you survive a crash, what can you carry on a plane legally that you can start a fire with? I think most have already been mentioned.

1. 9v battery & copper wires
2. char cloth
3. char tin
4. flint & steel depending on form ???
5. magnesium ???

I guess the problem is that in theory, anything that could be used to start a fire, even if not intended to do so on the plane, might still be confiscated, and perhaps rightly so. Further discussions over the internet about what might be legal to include in a "Carry On BOB" might not be such a great idea, however well intended. Interesting to think about though. What's in your COBOB?

"Sir, why are you carrying a parachute?"

[Quietgentleman]

I personally like using a striker for a torch as a simple to carry device for lighting a fire. Its so handy you put your tinder in the lil cup and just give it a couple strokes and you have a small fire. I carry one in my tackle box and camping gear and there is always one in my pickup. Besides the half dozen that's floating around in the shop somewhere not hanging next to the torch for some odd reason. :-/ :-/

QGM

[Mac_Muz]

The problem with a can is you need to polish it very well and then depend on the sun. The same goes for any lense. No sun no fire.

i wouldn;t go so far to say any steel, but any old and hard tool steel should produce spark, the problem there is who runs around with a file in their hip pocket?

Flint isn't everywhere either and far from it, but rocks like chert are, and others harder than that are. Some oif these however are hard to get a sharp edge on, and so could cause difficulty. The sparks are white hot buring steel.

I don't carry anything and hope if I lived thru a crash I would come on to things I could find in less than 8 hours for a bow drill.

I think the point is more that you either make a the idea be you will have something to light fore or you may go with out.

If the plane I was on crashed in a sage brush desert, and I had nothing but thye plane then I would have to use the plane and what ever was on it.

If the plane batteries were busted to hell then I would be out of luck in a desert, unless I found something else of hard tool steel or a lense.

If that plane went down in the east coast of the USA I would be fine, because I could make a bow and drill up a fire with in 8 hours.

Mil spec 550 cord is a poor excuse for a bow string since it is so slippery. I suppose it is possible to modify it, perhaps running it over a larger rock to "break" the fiber for a stickier string.

I have no idea what is on a plane really as I seldom fly, but I suppose you could either find or fashion in time a air tight container and find cotton to char.

There are natural things which can hold a spark, but most of them are wet and harder to find when you want them. Atleast I believe that is true in New England.

I have hunted for years and only in the past 3 found "touch wood" which is a fungas, and I have mixed results.

From the same hunk of this material I find some will catch and hhold a spark, while the next hunk I wack off with a rock won't.

If you had a flint and steel (no magnesium) and happened on an old camp site I would seek the fire pit and try a charred hunk of that wood, if any. I have had some success with old left over woods in a pit once sun dried well.

If you found any with white ash still on the wood so much the better.

With a drill fire the hardest part to find is the string, and to me deer raw hide seems the best. But then I never have a deer in my hip pocket either. From early spring to about mid summer there are plants and trees that work to make a good string, and later in fall you can from other vine type plants.

Making the string is easy once you get the hang of it, and for practice a spool of jute twine works well.

I use and carry jute alot. I can use it as string, black powder cleaning, where it breaks down in fiber content in the sulfer acids when cleaning and tends to pick up other combustables as well, which once dry will just about blow up on contact with char cloth. The jute works very well as string just un-done.

You can take it apart and make a fire nest and if you don;'t use it make it back into string. If you like you can make a 2 cord line from it, and if after that you want it larger you can reverse the process and make a 4 cord line from it.

I use Linden /Bass wood to make string and a new and fresh one in about 1/8th diameter most strong men can't pull in two. I might guess laid up to be apx 3/8th inch you could snare a deer. Since that is illegal I can't say for sure if it would work, but I bet it would.

[idris]

Got a fire piston that is really cool. *Georgie Patton said "pressure makes diamonds" well, it makes fire too.

Made fire about everyother way known to man, some easy some not so easy. *My preference is waterproff mariners matches. *They always work and will burn for approximately 20-30 seconds in most any situation.

The most important aspect in making fire is tinder in my opinion. *I keep mine in a screw lid can about the size of a limon. *When I need it, it's there and it's dry.

Rick
I saw one of these on TV, being used by Indonesian fishermen at sea: it is made of bamboo, & works really quickly.

[Mac_Muz]

Any one got specs on a fire piston?

I saw one once and got to use it. I was given a small hunk of something to keep. Since then I forget the specs, and would like to make one.

What the substance was/is Is Inonotus Obliquus, or touchwood, which you can forget looking for if you don't have birch, or beech trees around, mainly birch in my experience..

I have some and some while yet not others will catch and hold a spark. I don't know why yet..

[AlchemyAcres]

What the substance was/is Is Inonotus Obliquus, or touchwood....

Yeah, true tinder fungus.
There's lotsa fire piston specs online!
My fire piston bodies are wooden...the shaft (pressed into the wooden body) and piston are brass....


~Martin :)

[annabella1]

glycerin and potassium permanganate be sure to keep them separate until you need a fire. You don't need much you could even keep them in those little bottles in the plastic bag you can carry on a plane. Oh how to use it. Twist about 1/4 tsp of potassium permanganate in a piece of paper. Place it where you want the fire. Drip one or two drops of glycerin on the paper. Wait 7 seconds woosh you got fire.
Oh yes potassium pemanganate is used to fight skin infections, glycerin is used in a lot of cosmetics. So I wasn't a bit surprised when homeland security started limiting the carry on of liquids.

[AlchemyAcres]

Potassium permanganate?

I have no idea what in aitch-eeee-double toothpicks your're talkin' about!!! LOL

I just soak the 'true' tinder fungus in 'pee'. yeah. 'pee' LOL....then dry it out good...that'll help 'er burn better!!!


~Martin ;)

[Mac_Muz]

Martin.... This looks like yoy make these... Do you?

My fire piston bodies are wooden...the shaft (pressed into the wooden body) and piston are brass....

I have the basic in my head and can make one and or several. Pretty much stoppper a hole apx 5/16" or so, amd make a plug longer with a small hollow to fit a dapper of fungas in..

IF you make these maybe we could work out a trade?

Soak it in pee huh? I ain't done that ....yet Tell me a bit more because I can't stand the stink of goat pee tanned hides...

[Mac_Muz]

Oh yeah I know niter is in pee.

[annabella1]

Okay so if you guys want to go around peein on mushrooms be my guest.

[AlchemyAcres]

Okay so if you guys want to go around peein on mushrooms be my guest.


LOL

~Martin ;)

[Mac_Muz]

Just soak it huh? No how long, nuthin? Ok I can take a hint.. Just go piss off mac, and then dry the stuff and for so long as it is damnned good and dry... test with flint and steel..

I just can't understand how it is, that I can break off a hunk and that works, break off another and that one won't catch a spark...???

WTF??

[AlchemyAcres]

Just soak it huh? No how long, nuthin? Ok I can take a hint.. Just go piss off mac, and then dry the stuff and for so long as it is damnned good and dry... test with flint and steel..

I just can't understand how it is, that I can break off a hunk and that works, break off another and that one won't catch a spark...???

WTF??

It should easily catch even without the urine treatment.

The traditional way to prepare it is boiling in strong urine for a couple days....I use rabbit urine which is pretty strong, so I just soak it.

I'm rebuilding the base on my treadle lathe....I'll be making some more fire pistons when I get that done and have some spare time....January or February.

~Martin

[Mac_Muz]

Well some catches on the first strike, and off the same hunk other hunks won't catch at all. So I am befuzzeled to say the least...... No pee yet... I have no idea what you get for these? 45 maybe 50 bucks is a wild guess....

I made knives and hope to again and I make silver still too, so if a trade is cool I just like doing it better.... I have a couple knives I traded knives for..... Anyway I prefer things a man in the USA makes over some for crap store bought products....

I had to have a Navy Brass ram rod so I bought 5/6" stock much longer than I need for the rod. I was thinking to use a bit of that for this device for some day when I get a "Round Tuit".....

[AlchemyAcres]

Try the amadou layer of horse hoof fungus... Fomes fomentarius...false tinder fungus. The amadou is between the hard outer skin and the fruiting mass.
It's better for catching a spark....true tinder fungus works best in the fire piston or to hold an ember for an extended period of time, but doesn't catch a spark as easily.

The smaller the bore (within reason) of the fire piston the better, because the pressures are so much higher...
The brass piston and bore give you the strength needed for a smaller bore...the close tolerances eliminate the need for a gasket that would wear out anyway..
I make an ember holder that's perpendicular to the piston .....holds the ember better and it's much easier to get the ember outa the darn thing.
Much like Rob Bicevskis's design....

http://wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/firepiston/rbresearch/RBfirepistonresearch1.html

I get $35 for the fire pistons I make.

~Martin :)

[Mac_Muz]

Let me know when You make more.... I'ld be interested. If you have pics of others you made and no long may own I'ld like seeing them. Thanks for the info... I''l go pee in a bottle now.... ;D