Would you share?

[hunter63]

O/K. The SHTF:
You have spent a lot of time, effort, money for what you need to take care of your self/family.

The BIL shows up with wife, 3 teens, in his new SUV, cell phone and credit cards, telling you that the cards don't work, cell doesn't either and the SUV is almost out of gas.

This is the guy that has given you a bad time for being "one of those nuts" that are "hording stuff" while he and his family have been consuming everything in sight and living "the good life".

So do you welcome your "guests" with open arms, or send them on their way?

I would guess you all know someone that would fit this senerio.

[RangerRick]

Family, no question about it.

Rick

[tufhelp]

Yep, I have to agree RR, BUT there would be a long, serious clearly understood by all parlay re: Who does what, to and for whom! No free rides especially if work effort is all you have to trade. A benevolent dictatorship for the time being… :-*

[otobesane1]

Rick's right. Family is family. However, the first conversation would take place before they entered my home. It would be a direct, no nonsense explanation of the rules and the consequences of breaking them. The giggling and denigration about our being "prep nuts" would end right there. Although I would gladly listen to any suggestions they had as we went along, my decision would be final...every time. Any infraction that could result in harm coming to my wife and child or our supplies would be dealt with harshly. We're talking about SHF and there will be no jury nor with there be second chances.

[candy]

God will make sure your oil pot never goes dry! We are to share.

Saying that I have several small log chain lengths and pad locks.

I will be the only one to have keys and a back up person of my choice.

No sense , having the argument to start.

And it goes without saying, unless they have one foot in the grave or are really really sick.

No work, no eat. That is biblical

Works for me.

[edward_4576]

Tough question. Yes and no, like the last post I can see whose coming and I don't have to answer the door. If they try to break in well that tells you something about the people and what they might do if you let them in.

To be honest I got someone in my family that's big into well lets call it recreational pharmaceuticals.He has a lot of weapons and considers himself a biker type (nothing wrong with biker types by the way), but I wouldn't let him in my house in a SHTF scenario.

Neighbors, well I like to help as I can but I can't feed everyone. To prevent stuff like people coming to my house I follow some simple rules. Keep my mouth shut, don't let anyone know of my preps. I spend a few bucks a year sending everyone in my neighborhood a few pages of how to prepare on a shoestring budget and a map of local sex offenders. I put a fictitious return address on the envelope and for a few of the people that know about my preps I've explained to them what would happen if they showed up.

In a H5N1 scenario or something similar, I wouldn't endanger my family by letting someone in my house that might be infected as for the rest before they stepped one foot in my house they get the speech. I'm the boss and one other thing trust your gut. Even good ole uncle ernie might turn bad in a SHTF scenario.

[candy]

Ed a quarantine shelter is in order i believe. A small shed, to get the cooties off anybody new that shows up.

Never know what those cooties might be.

[edward_4576]

Candy, problem with that is that while folks is hanging out in that shed or your garage or what ever, other people might see them and figure out that you got all your stuff in one bag as it were.

Here's a fictional account written by an RN. It gave me new things to think about.

http://www.survivetheflu.com/mytown1.html

[wax]

SHTF is SHTF... and unfortunately that means a different set of rules and requires a different mindset.

I often wonder how far to go (with associates) when discussing a SHTF event because, after all, it is a game of scenerios.
SHTF either happens or it does not, it has not happened for an extremely long time but it is assured to happen at some point in the future.
But if any group can comprehend what it entails it is likely this one:

The problem with ancient Romans was not that they didn't understand how the water arrived in the city to be consumed... the trouble was that when the water stopped none of them could get it going again fast enough to prevent panic among the masses.

Make no mistake, there were many who could have happily provided for every need they had. But there were many more who couldn't.

As the electricity stops, as the plastic becomes useless, as the furnaces shut down and the grocery stores begin to empty... well... "zombies" are nice because while they are deadly they don't think much. Desperate hungry humans are much more dangerous!

The fact that "BIL" found you and knows of your resources makes him a threat.
"BIL" can become a resource drain while he provides no new resources, but he can also become a location alarm as he tells everyone who can hear how you will not/would not share what you have... and of course anyone listening will want, and actively seek, what you have.

SHTF rules for me are fairly clear:
An asset will be welcomed, a liability will be eliminated.
I will become "Vlad the Impaler" in the hopes of future generations despising my actions rather than allow future generations to be negated.
Warlords are often despised by society.
But the fact is that SHTF requires them.

[the_grizz]

AMEN WAX!! THE GRIZZ

[TNDadx4]

Rick's right. Family is family. However, the first conversation would take place before they entered my home. It would be a direct, no nonsense explanation of the rules and the consequences of breaking them. The giggling and denigration about our being "prep nuts" would end right there. Although I would gladly listen to any suggestions they had as we went along, my decision would be final...every time. Any infraction that could result in harm coming to my wife and child or our supplies would be dealt with harshly. We're talking about SHF and there will be no jury nor with there be second chances.


Absolutely. While I would try to help as best I can, it will become clear that they are expected to help out and contribute. Being that they are family, it would be nice to have someone that you can trust (assuming that you can), even though they have done nothing to prepare themselves.

Remember the story of the ant who puts up food for the winter. The grasshopper (I think) gets helpedm but he DOES learn his lesson.

[bookwormom]

in the story that I know the grasshopper does not get helped.
The aunt says, since you made music and sang in the summer you can dance in the winter, and slams the door in his face.
Wax is the most realistic I am afraid. The SHTF scenario is going to be a lot worse than we imagine. It is important that those with forsight and responsibility take charge.

[elh]

I agree with WAX . New rules. In order for the group to survive every one has to work together. as for sharing sure for a short time. they will have to contribute something worth wile after that.

[TNDadx4]

ooops... you're right. The grasshopper does not get helped.

I guess I've been "conditioned" to think otherwise. I'm starting the deprogramming right now...lol


WAX does make sense. I do my best to try to help others see the reason for preparing without putting up a big sign saying that "I have food and supplies! All are welcome!"

[edward_4576]

Here's a new take on the ant and the grasshopper:

http://brokeback-america.blogspot.com/2006/10/ant-and-grasshopper.html

The one thing I think about and this is something that's been bantered about around here is to not let people know your a preparedness nut.

I used to talk about it quite a bit a t work until someone suggested that in crisis situation they would come to my home. It got me to thinking about what would happen if your preparations weren't secret:

1. The only ones that will show up are the ones that aren't prepared and probably be the ones that think you owe them something.

2. If TSFTF and people know you'll become a target for raiders.

3. If it gets that bad Uncle Sugar will be wanting what ever you have "For the good of the people"

4. You get funny looks from your neighbors.

Now if you are really wanting to prepare like I do, drop subtle hints or in the case of an urban scenario do like I do. I send out a little flier that has a checklist for an emergency kit and a list of local sex offenders and one of those FEMA pamphlets. I send them out to folks in my neighborhood, it doesn't cost much and I send it to them anonymously. If any one asks me about it I play dumb. I have a garage and I never let see people see me unload my stuff.

I have found that in some cases people start taking things seriously and in that case I may open up a bit but never let anyone know what I do.

[CarolAnn]

It is truly amazing who becomes the enemy in a crisis.

When I built my earth shelter in Arkansas, back in 1980, a woman whom I knew slightly (and thought of as a possible friend) said that she and her husband had talked it over, and "if there was a nuclear war, we are going to come take your place."

OK.

So she was dumb enough to give me advance warning, and how many others were saying that? I made sure to tell her it was NOT a bomb shelter, and wouldn't work as such, but doubted if that did any good. I was really glad to see them move away!

[wax]

Carol- It is truly amazing who becomes the enemy in a crisis.

Wax- Not really if you think about it, the person you mention has already thought asbout it and realized that she would be in trouble in such a situation (even though she was likely kidding when she said what she did... but we will address that later*)

Others have pointed out the need for "secrecy" (for lack of a better term) concerning survival preperations. But i often take the opposite approach when dealing with parties who become interested in my preperations.

The issue really didn't come up for me personnally until the spring of 1998. People were talking about Y2K but no one was really upset by it... because on average people are sheep and can not react until it is too late.
I had finally become established enough to become noticed for the different way that I lived.

People started noticing that I bought in bulk and that my fences were a bit more than a few slabs of wood slapped together.
I started fielding alot of questions (some just curious but others more wary).
I would explain that I had absolutely no fear of Y2K, and I explained why (a computer doesn't care what the date is, the most that could happen were faulty dates on programs) but I also explained the idea that the ability to survive any disaster, natural or man-made was my duty to my loved ones and offspring.

Some thought I was a bit of a nut, but most simply agreed that preparedness wasn't a bad idea.
Then in May of 1989 a tornado tore through my hometown and wiped out over six hundred homes.
People knew where to come for help and resources, but of course my family was already in action (my sons shocked people by violating the law and driving atv's through town within minutes of the event... they knew a fact that most didn't; there are times when laws do not apply. If it were not for them the dozens of doctors and nurses called into action would not have reached the hospital because gawkers and idiots jammed the roadways either attempting to flee or trying to get into town).

We only lost two people, a miracle in a way.
I, and those who knew me well enough, had absolutely no reason to panic.
We could have gone for three times as long without assistance from the government and restoration of power.

After things got back to normal it started some realistic conversations concerning other emergencies.
I decided that the best approach would be very direct and precise.

Everyone I know is fully aware of where the line will be drawn. They are confident that I will assist them in nearly every emergency that a society can expect.
But they are also aware of the SHTF scenerio.

There are a list of men and women who know they are not only welcome but much desired in a SHTF scenerio. Some of them live at quite a distance but they know that if they can get here they have a great chance of surviving just about anything. They also know what they should bring if possible, and that includes what not to bring (parents etc).

It isn't easy to turn to someone and say, "Bob, I like you, I really do. But there are some things I won't explain to you. You have great kids... a wonderful family, but if society becomes no longer viable the only advice I can give you is to go the other way."

Sometimes "Bob" will get angry, but usually "Bob" will start to think for himself a bit. I have even assisted some in forming a plan for themselves.
But "Bob" can not be allowed to get confused. If a set of red triangles are ever placed around my property he will either stay away and look for answers elsewhere of he will fail himself and his loved ones in the quest for survival.



* The "average" citizen doesn't understand the dynamics involved when they state things like, "well... I'll just have to come to your house if I need help".
They don't understand that they are placing you on the defensive by doing this and simply reinforcing the idea of defense required in such a situation.
It is important that they are corrected in this misunderstanding.

[Tuckahoe]

Your oil pot may not run dry but at the same time it was not raining when Noah built the ark. I would have no problem turning some people away.

[Weezin]

Not in the SHTF reality.
Back in the the mid 70's I was doing a all winter road trip. My camp was set up in the foothills, S.W.of Las Vegas.
A car pulled up and parked several yards away. A man, woman and two small children got out.
I was cooking my supper on the old coleman stove. They told me they looking for a place to camp for the weekend and went on to say they had lost all their money gambling in Vegas and didn't know how they we're going to get home (LA).
Then it came, "that food sure smells good, we don't have any".
I told them I'd fed the kids but not them, the kids had no fault losing the money at a black jack table. Then they got down right nasty, by refusing to feed them.
To make a long story short, me and my friend Mr. Colt sent them packing.
So, yes I can turn someone away...............

[JAK]

I haven't studied this as most of you have, but I'll have a go at it. I think there are different SHTF scenarios, and different solutions depending on your particular situation and skills and assets and liabilities. If I grew up and lived in a large city I might have a different solution than if I grew up and lived in the country. If I was rich I would have a different solution than if I was poor. If I was well skilled and well connected socially I would have a different solution than if I was naturally more introverted and self-reliant. If I was otherwise marginalized by society or heaven forbid more dependant on her, those situations would also call for different solutions. But I grew up and live by the ocean, and have certain skills associated with that. That creates some options, and perhaps some predispositions, but the best plans need to be flexible, and even the best plans and preparedness might very likely have to be thrown out the window after the SHTF. Good mental and physical and spiritual health, practical knowledge and skills, a strong and functional family unit. Those are perhaps most essential. Next to that I would say a fairly modest but safe refuge, multiple caches well hidden including some things more mobile and more useful for barter, mobility, communications, those sorts of things. It doesn't need to be all that expensive. Even if I lived in a big city, and was on welfare, I could see having all of those things in some form and to one degree or another. Of course if I did live in a big city, even If I wasn't on welfare, I would hope that I would consider already that the SHTF, at least enough for me, and I would bug the hell out immediately rather than wait for any more signals. Of course if I grew up in a large city, heaven forbid, I would be different. Am I prepared? Not enough. Am I knowledgeable and skilled? Not enough. But I think part of being prepared is like the best revenge, which is living well. Why wait for the SHTF to go camping or sailing with your family? Why wait for the SHTF to eat and use and replenish food and suppliese you have grown and stored? Why wait for the SHTF to live a week or two each season without needing grid electricity or without needing to shop? We don't need to wait for SHTF to live well and live free. We should be doing it already! As for the 'BIL' or whoever might show up. There is only so much you can do for others beforehand, and there is only so much you can do after that. We should try and lead by example first. If he doesn't get that beforehand, he might not get it even after. If he does get it and show up after perhaps we might treat him as the prodigal son, perhaps not. But we should not forget that perhaps we might be wrong also? Perhaps we might be the prodigal son, or if not the father, perhaps the other son? As I understand it the parable was written for all three. But I don't think I have to worry too much about the given scenario. I am of relatively modest means, which tends to make it easier to seek modest and simple solutions. Even though they often involve much trial and error and hard work and frustration, they often seem to work out best. Providence isn't a system of welfare. Providence is a system of faith, and of meeting things part way.

[JAK]

"We do not rest satisfied with the present. We anticipate the future as too slow in coming, as if in order to hasten its course; or we recall the past, to stop its too rapid flight. So imprudent are we that we wander in the times which are not ours and do not think of the only one which belongs to us; and so idle are we that we dream of those times which are no more and thoughtlessly overlook that which alone exists. For the present is generally painful to us. We conceal it from our sight, because it troubles us; and, if it be delightful to us, we regret to see it pass away. We try to sustain it by the future and think of arranging matters which are not in our power, for a time which we have no certainty of reaching.

Let each one examine his thoughts, and he will find them all occupied with the past and the future. We scarcely ever think of the present; and if we think of it, it is only to take light from it to arrange the future. The present is never our end. The past and the present are our means; the future alone is our end. So we never live, but we hope to live; and, as we are always preparing to be happy, it is inevitable we should never be so."

from PENSEES
- Blaise Pascal