Location

[lanawos]

Hey,
I've been looking into going back to nature for the past few years for several reasons. I am looking for a place to go live in the backwoods in Illinois but the net doesn't really help with this much.

So far I've downloaded the old military army survival cd-rom which covers a load of information. I have a hiking pack, and most of everything that I need to leave right now. I want to start fresh on the land I go to. It doesn't matter if there are other people are around but i want to do it on my own or at least pull my weight in the small community.

I prefer something surrounded by and in the middle of the woods. I'd buy land but I'm extremely poor, I make if I'm lucky about $7,000 a year. This is due to too many people and too little jobs and thus i only get to work part-time.

I've gone hiking at Forest Glenn in Illinois near Danville, my stepfather and I hiked it starting on Friday at 2 P.M. and ended it on Sunday at 4 P.M. I really enjoyed the whole camp/hike thing and have always enjoyed nature.

I have never really hunted I would prefer snares n traps to guns which are unnatural and just another stupid invention. Not to mention completely unfair to your prey. Bow n arrows are alright though. I have eaten Venison, Rabbit, Squirrel, and Duck.

There have been times lately that I haven't had money for food and have thought about catching a rabbit and eating it but change my mind because it's a scrawny city rabbit, thus not worth the effort for the little meat I'd get.

[Txanne]

I do believe we have our work cut out for us with you.


You scare me.

If your having a rough go of it now----moving to the boonies unprepared will get you in deep trouble.

Even the basics cost money.

And having lived off grid for 10 years---I found it to be expensive---
I was Very lucky to have found a job 6 miles down the same road.
Primitive work--running a wood splitter and using my back to make a living.

Am I trying to discouage you> NO!!

I am just warning you--To prepare--to think this out,and I do wish you all speed in your quest for a place in the area you choose.

Sincerely Txanne

[lanawos]

Actually the rough go has been all my life.
As far as unprepared, that's why I'm reading, writing, and studying every form of primitive tech I can find on the net plus over 10000 pages of army training manuals.

I understand that the knowledge of this information does not mean experience. And definitely understand that being prepared is number 1. As far as money, yes I don't make much at all but that doesn't mean I haven't been saving.

And as far as No, I say no to you, this has been my dream since I was in my early teens. I know your just trying to save me a hell of a hard time. That's why I posted here to find the help I need to be prepared.

I'm not talking bout just finding a location and taking off most likely I won't be leaving the grid until late spring early summer of next year. Finally I have been homeless and lived off the inner city woods many times, I also know this is not the same as true off grid living but hey at least 5% of the experience is there.

I may be 25 but I'm not stupid. That's why I posted here looking for your help. The location question is so I know what climate, and ecosystem to prepare for.

#1 Law of survival is be prepared.
#2 Law of survival is be aware of your surroundings.
#3 Law of survival is be focused and have willpower.

[JAK]

If you are single and in good healthy then what you are suggesting is very doable physically. I think your best bet would be to keep moving and call yourself a thru-hiker. There are very good forums on thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail, Pacific Coast Trail, and that one in the middle some place. Gear should be light, but does not need to be expensive. Food would be your biggest expense. If you pace yourself you won't have to eat all that much. It would be interesting to see how cheap you could live while thru-hiking. You would certainly get in very good shape and see alot of the country. You would also make good contacts and be less likely to become a social outcast, which happens very easily. Most of us are closer than we would like to think to unemployment and poverty. As we age, and especially once we are married with kids, *there is increasinglt less wiggle room. By joining the thru-hiking community you will make many friends, and some very useful contacts. You will likely find opportunities for seasonal work that fits your lifestyle choices. *

If I were you I would look into thru-hiking, then transition into homesteading later, or eventually settle on a combination of the two.

[Txanne]

Well---good luck to ya!! ;D


Txanne

[lanawos]

That sounds extremely interesting.
As far as a national park I've been looking at Shawnee National Forest using World Wind from NASA due to the amazing topographical maps. And I was thinking for some training that going on a long hike would be a great idea.

My roommate and a friend of mine who lives between here and Shawnee National Forest were all planning of going off the grid and unlike my friend and I my roommate has no experience in hiking for more than a mile.

It'll still be a few more months before we go because we may have hiking packs n 85% of the gear, we still have to save up for food and the rest of our gear. Seeing as it's taken us 2 years to save up for all our current equipment, should show how serious we are.

We've made lye soap at home using lard lol, and have gone hunting the past few years and have cleaned, skinned, and tanned all sorts of critters ranging from Squirrels, Rabbits, Raccoons, Ducks (hate their feathers), White Tail Deer, and Possum (My roommates idea, no we didn't eat it he just wanted the tail n skull. [We used the meat for Catfish bait, didn't work well.]).

[JAK]

My guess would be that you already have all you need, except food, and a plan. The plan does not need to be that complicated. 3-5 day trips are a good start. I would be interested in looking at you gear list. If you are interested I can give you some good websites and forums for backpacking. Also there are many excellent books of course. My preference is the classics. I have one in front of me as we speak. It is more on canoeing actually. You can still go a long way in North America by canoe. I am from New Brunswick, Canada so I am not all that familiar with your area, but we are all more or less connected by canoe route, plus a few portages here and there. Did you know that a canoe is an ocean with the letters rearranged. Even if you are not interested in canoeing, check out the following at your local library. I think you would find it a very good read. This is what Calvin says about food in the last paragraph of his book:

"Writing this section, I think of a Cree friend with whom I travelled early in the century. I wonder what he would think of the modern-day luxury of this food budget. We had a canoe, fishline, rifle, two rabbit skin blankets, flour, tea, and a bag of salt. We slept under the canoe, and lived largely off the country - on fish, game, and berries. Life was a lot less complicated. Looking back nostalgically, it seems we felt more closely, more vibrantly, the pulse of the earth."
- "North American Canoe Country", Calvin Rutstrum


Cheers,
Jamie Kennedy
New Brunswick

[lanawos]

Canoeing is fine by me, when we went on vacation when I was 16 I rented a canoe for 2 days and didn't leave cept to eat, sleep, and so forth. When we headed home the skin on my thumbs was rubbed raw (Don't worry I wouldn't do that on a canoe trip now).

I've been talking to my step-dad about this for a few months and he called me earlier today and told me if I bring a digital camera and make a journal of everything he would give me $400 a month. He is 53 and not in good health and wants to go but can't, so he thinks this is a good way for me to realize my dream and for him to partially experience everything.

[RangerRick]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Rick

[JAK]

That's pretty cool. I think you could keep a pretty interesting journal and, who knows, maybe write a book some day. You write very well. Even when you slip into vernacular you do it deliberately and effectively. You seem like you could develop whatever style you wish. As for the $400/month, that is very generous of your step-father. I think you might you could live within that fairly indefinitely, at least until something happens. But heck, something might always happen that you can't afford even when your working full-time, and then you would be worse off really because you would not have had the experience. Even if you only do it for one month I think you would get a lot out of it. If you do it right you can learn as you go, gradually pushing the envelope without taking any undue risk. Within one month you should find yourself more confident, more self-reliant, and in fairly good physical shape. If not, there is always the next month. Anyhow, doing it on a budget could be the subject of a very interesting journal, or web blog, or whatever. The journal might also be valuable to folks that run youth camps and so forth. There are many books on backpacking and thru-hiking, but most are geared towards buying lots of gear and so forth. Not to many are geared towards someone like yourself. Many of us would be interested in reading about the adventures of someone like yourself, even those of us that have moved on and dug deeper roots for ourselves, like your step-father. Of course you need to keep it together and survive. There are plenty of books on people wandering off and disappearing or getting eaten. They usually go crazy first. We don't really need another one of those books. Cheers.

Weight is probably the most important consideration for travelling on foot. Many people, especially young men, start out by buying a very heavy backpack and filling it with very heavy stuff. Ideally you want to travel where you will have access to water. You can purify it with a very cheap kit called aquamira. Food is about 2 pounds per day. As you get into better shape you should be able to consume 3 pounds a day, but initially you want to pace yourself. So 20 pounds of gear and 10 pounds of food will take you on a 5 day trip. If you throw in a day on each end for travelling by bus you have yourself have a week. If you are not overweight you can carry 40 pounds, and travel 10 days at a stretch, and with resupplies along the way you can travel fairly indefinitely. As you put more mileage in you will lose weight and be able to carry more food and cover more miles per day. Picking the right gear and knowing what to do with it is most important. You don't want to listen too much to people in stores though. You really need to figure out for yourself how little you really need. If you are interested, if you describe where you might want to travel, I will describe how little I would bring, and how cheap it is, if I was going on such a trip myself. Cheers.

There are many good forums on backpacking and thru-hiking.

[lanawos]

I am thinking of starting at Shawnee National Park because it's close, and when I'm done there I can choose Appalachian Mountains or Rocky Mountains. I've been thinking about somewhere farther south for during winter months.

[CarolAnn]

lanawos,

There might be a way you can live very well way out there. My uncle lived for years as a backwoods caretaker. They let him live there rent free and all he had to do was make his presence known so no one looted the outbuildings. I don't think he ever had a problem with anyone, either. He earned money by fixing small engines, recycling, anything that he could find, although he probably had a small pension too.

In California and probably other areas, a building can't stand empty for too long or they require it to be torn down. A corporation had bought an old farmstead but didn't have plans to develop it. That's where my uncle came in. With someone living on the place, the buildings were safe from the law that would have required their removal. He was WAY off the grid!

So ask around and research it a little. Being a caretaker might even bring an income with it!

[Txanne]

CarolAnn,

Excellent idea.

Way off grid is the way to go, but takes some getting use to.

If your use to people and stuff going on around you--it takes time to adjust to the solitude.

I had that experience---it was wierd.

And that is interesting info--on the buildings.

Txanne

[JAK]

I read recently that when people that are blind since childhood suddenly regain their sight, (very rare but it happens), they have a lot of difficulty adjusting. They have so much information coming at them they don't know how to process. The part of their brain for processing visual information has been taken over for processing tactile information and other stimula. So if they go to a museum, for example, that they always wanted to go to all their lives, when they get there they don't recognize anything they see, not even an old chair, because they aren't allowed to touch them. They don't even recognize their own wife or husband, unless they touch them. They can't tell the difference between a smile of pleasure and a grimace of pain, not to mention the millions of other possible expressions the human face can evoke. They often go into deep depression after regaining their sight, even if they were really happy and successful and well adjusted before. Take Stevie Wonder for example. He might be able to regain his sight with all this stem cell research, but it could ruin him.

Anyhow, this is why I think it is important, even essential, for us to spend as much time in the woods as we can, when we are young and all through our lives. If we keep wishing to go and live in the woods, if we don't dabble in it here and there along the way of life we might not be prepared to handle it if we ever to get a chance to realize our dream. Even if we have the equipment and knowledge and skills, we might not be able to handle it psychologically. Nature has a lot of bandwidth, but if we are used to processing television, and city driving, and all the other noise and arguments and insults, we might not be able to process so much beauty all at once if we ever get a chance to live our dreams.

There is another close parallel with true faith. I think it is important to experience at least some of that in childhood also, and keep that up throughout your life, if only just a little, in case you get a chance to get back to it later. Of course there is always the argument that we never know for sure what true faith is, or what is true nature. I think this is why it helps to have both. When people are uncertain of their faith they have often gone off into the wilderness. Similarly, perhaps if we lose touch with our true nature, or destroy it, our faith might help guide us when we return to it, or restore it. In the end, there is really nothing but grace, and providence. Sometimes this comes as simple common sense, and a few blessings. God help us all, and grant us some common sense and decency, and some woods to walk in and some mountains to climb.

[lanawos]

Ya, that's why I like the thru-hike idea so that I can experience the outdoors in a sampler kind of way, more than the camping and being homeless in the inner city woods. I will still be around people occasionly, and it will help me buildup physically and mentally.

As far as faith, I have always worshipped nature through nature and respect and have always been happier in the woods ever since I was a child. It's like I've been pulled to nature my whole life. I have always disliked populated areas and all the foolishness that comes with it.

[Txanne]

We will still have all the emotions and thoughts alone in the woods.

In the 10 years i was off grid--in the real backwoods--I had a few rough days.

humans are herd creatures---we need the human contact--i had to teach myself alone-ness.

And I became dyhydrated once and became very sick---Alone--now that was testy at best.

I hit the back-woods thinking I had all the ans. also.


Txanne

[JAK]

It is true that we are all social animals, but some of us less so than others. Traditionally we probably mostly evolved as relatively small extended family and tribal groups, then we adapted into larger and larger groups, mostly for competitive advantages against other groups of humans. Still, within those groups we have always maintained a healthy mix of some people that are more apt to be loners and wanderers, and some that are more inclined to be leaders, nurturers, and followers. All of us seem to cycle also. Even the lonersand wanderers seem to need some time with others, and even the leaders and nurturers and followers seem to need some time to themselves. For myself a week, perhaps a fortnight, is a nice length of time to be away, and I generally prefer to travel alone, or with my young daughter, or a small group. I think if I didn't have a family I might handle a winter alone, perhaps a year if I was travelling, but of course with a family its much much different. I think even when we are single it is the desire for a family that drives us, and helps us wander if we are the wandering type. I think the hermits that are able to remain isolated for longer periods later in life may have already had family, or opportunities for family, and lost them. The drive is ever present. It is family that is essential to life. Society, not so much. Civilization, highly over-rated.

It's amazing how much it helps just to have the right companion with you if you want to be wandering or isolated for more extended periods. Having a good dog can make a real difference also. Of course the wrong mix of people, even the wrong dog, might be worse than none at all, especially if you have already lost someone, or something. I remember reading about this Antarctic expedition; 2 women and 3 men; how they all came back and said one of the men just didn't fit in whereas the other four ended up getting along so well they ended up getting married. Well duh. It doesn't take a rocket science to figure out the math on that one. The funny thing was the author, a biologist and psychologist no less, attributed it all to this one guys being lazy and not fitting in.

Fact is that society, even small societies, are mostly cruel, arbitrary, and totally lacking in objectivity. Nice to get way from all that now and then. Sometimes even the Antarctic just isn't far enough. There are always those that will hunt the wounded down, no matter where they go. Nurturers. The fabric of our society. Can't live with them. Can't beat them with a hockey stick.

Everything in moderation I suppose, including moderation.

[JAK]

The Bull Moose

Down from the purple mist of trees on the mountain,
lurching through forests of white spruce and cedar,
stumbling through tamarack swamps,
came the bull moose
to be stopped at last by a pole-fenced pasture.

Too tired to turn or, perhaps, aware
there was no place left to go, he stood with the cattle.
They, scenting the musk of death, seeing his great head
like the ritual mask of a blood god, moved to the other end
of the field, and waited.

The neighbours heard of it, and by afternoon
cars lined the road. The children teased him
with alder switches and he gazed at them
like an old, tolerant collie. The woman asked
if he could have escaped from a Fair.

The oldest man in the parish remembered seeing
a gelded moose yoked with an ox for plowing.
The young men snickered and tried to pour beer
down his throat, while their girl friends took their pictures.

And the bull moose let them stroke his tick-ravaged flanks,
let them pry open his jaws with bottles, let a giggling girl
plant a little purple cap
of thistles on his head.

When the wardens came, everyone agreed it was a shame
to shoot anything so shaggy and cuddlesome.
He looked like the kind of pet
women put to bed with their sons.

So they held their fire. But just as the sun dropped in the river
the bull moose gathered his strength
like a scaffolded king, straightened and lifted his horns
so that even the wardens backed away as they raised their rifles.

When he roared, people ran to their cars. All the young men
leaned on their automobile horns as he toppled.

Alden Nowlan