Need Help Picking a Tractor

[jgelt]

I need a tractor or something of that ilk.

I just moved from the city to my happy little rural land in the country.

Here’s my land situation.

28 acres. About 14 is oak tree and 14 pasture. The pasture had not been well managed and is beginning to get weeds, brush and saplings. The house is on a low area. The trees go up hill on a 10-15 deg slope. The main pasture is at the top of the slope, but the pasture itself is level. The access road through the trees to the meadow is fairly well kept, but could stand some more gravel. Although some fencing exists on 3 sides of the land, most is not cattle ready in any form.

The purpose of the land is for wood for my woodstove. A large garden and orchard (not yet planted). Chickens. Likely we’ll run sheep and goats in the pasture at some point.

Tasks that will need to be performed:

Hauling wood, gravel and fencing. I can live with 200-300 pound loads. Heavy loads will be coming down hill, lighter up.

Brush hogging. What I need rough cut was at one point very well maintained (less so in recent years). The pasture has nothing bigger than inch saplings at points. Eventually I’d like to have enough sheep up there to make the grass cutting portion of the job moot.

Things that’d be nice to have but I can live without:

Regular mowing. It’d be nice, but the lawn area isn’t huge and I have a push mower.

Stump removal: I may do some honest to goodness clearing in the future. But that’d be a few years out.

Things I don’t need:

1. All weather capability. There will be no situation where I’ll absolutely have to get somewhere in the rain or snow with this vehicle.

2. Snow plowing. Not practical and snow is too sparse for it to be of value.

3. Tilling. Large scale tilling is not practical. Very rocky soil. Any fully cleared areas can be tilled just fine with a rear tine stand alone unit.

4. Hay baling. Although I have grass and intend to have sheep. Snow is sparse and short lived here. This is the hay basket of America. The small amount of hay I might need would take decades to offset the cost of doing it myself.

Personal disposition: I am semi-retired and have plenty of time to do things. I am not adverse to physical labor. My mechanical abilities are limited to maintenance only tasks. My ability to do repairs is limited. I am Tim Allen’s evil twin, I do not believe “more power’ is the solution to everything. I do not intend to have capabilities for things “I might need to do.” If my requirements change drastically in the future I’ll look at a different solution to my problem. I’m partial to a low center of gravity if it can work that way.

Money: The less the better, but I’m willing to pay if it’s the difference between a POS that’ll break in 2 years vs. something decent that’ll last me.

I just moved so I have no local acquaintances to bounce this problem off of. My friends and family are currently a good ways distant and have not yet seen the full lay of the land.

I believe that I can do “the job” with a high end garden tractor with attachments. What make or model I’m not sure of. My dad, who has not seen the place yet, seems to think I’m going to need a utility ATV and attachments. I respect his opinion, but I think he might be wrong on this one.

The places I can’t get a garden tractor to are also impassable to an ATV at this time. Utility ATVs and their attachments are pretty pricey. The attachments themselves make it as cheap to get a compact tractor and attachments. At this point I think a compact tractor is far more machine than I need.

But enough of my biases.

Any thoughts on my predicament? Thanks.

[Deberosa]

I can share the mistake I made with my place. It's only 4.5 acres. I figured (and let people talk me out of) getting a tractor. So I got a walk behind tiller and a generator and a walk behind weed wacker and a lawn tractor with cart... you get the idea, I have pieces and parts all with gas engines here. But I still wasn't getting the job done. The number one thing that a tractor has that you will love is a front end loader. To move a pile of "stuff" shovelling it in the cart then back out gets old fast.

You also don't want to get something so big you can't get it in and out of where you have to work, that's probably not as big an issue on 28 acres as it is here on 4.5.

I got the 28 hp Mahindra compact tractor. I haven't needed to use my walk behind tiller since I got it. I still use the lawn tractor with the cart because the big tractor can't really get to the bag yard portion of the property, but could do without it for sure. The weed wacker still gets used around edges and I think that is what I will use to cut hay/alfalfa because it lays it over in windows instead of chopping it up with the brush mower. After mowing a place for the fence I may even get rid of the brush mower in a year or two and just keep the tiller. I wish I would have gotten a PTO generator instead of the gas one but it's done now.

So that's been my experience - pick out of it what you can. ;-)

[BIGGKIDD]

With 28 Ac your going to save money and time and TROUBLE by starting with a tractor. There are some real nice low end tractors that cost less than a high end garden tractor & attchments. ATV can do some work but its just not what they are designed for. I'm with Debbie look into a compact DIESEL tractor. You'll get way more bang for your buck.

GOOD LUCK
Larry
PS a Diesel eng. will last 3 to 10 times as long as gas and burns less fuel.

[jgelt]

Thanks for your replies.

First Deberosa. A clarification and request for clarification.

First this is highly rocky soil. There is at the very most 1/10 acre that is tillable. SOP here is to hack out a hole to accommodate the roots of what you are planting. Extract what dirt you can. Pitch the rocks in a bin for later use. Take native dirt and lots of soil amendments to refill the hole. I'm a pretty industrious fellow. However the likelihood that in my lifetime I’ll churn enough dirt to render a single contiguous acre for tilling is pretty low. The 30 minutes I’ll spend tilling each fall and spring here will never warrant anything other than a walk behind, assuming I even need that.

Now my request for clarification. Moving “stuff” with a front end loader. I can be awful obtuse on some things so I may need education here. I’ve read tons of reviews on the need for one, but I’m not seeing the “why” of it. All the stuff I need to move around here is scattered. Nothing is in a pile and nothing will end up in a pile. I have cut logs to move. I’ve got brush to move. I’ve got garbage to move. I have to collect up leaves and grass to amend my planting holes with. None of that, to my untrained eye, could be improved with a loader. I’ve been trying to think of things I might bring in from off my property that would require one, but again, my feeble imagination can’t come up with anything. This is a relatively new enterprise to me. So I may be missing something obvious. My inclination is towards stark utilitarianism. If I can’t see immediate practical value, it doesn’t grab me. So if you have some examples of stuff I’d move with a loader, I’d like to hear them.

Biggkidd. I’m all ears. Could you give me a couple makes and models for me to look up? Doing an internet search on “tractor” with no clarification is a lot like typing “porn” into the search engine. You end up seeing a lot of stuff you didn’t really want to see.

Assume for a moment that Deberosa doesn’t get through my thick skull my need for a front end loader. What does a compact tractor get me that a high end garden tractor doesn’t? Again, so far, my two primary tasks are; haul a wagon and pull a brush hog.

Diesel requires no explanation. If I can go diesel I’d be happy.

Thanks again.

[DM]

I'm wondering what you call a "high end" garden tractor??

To me a high end garden tractor cost about 2/3 what a decent compact tractor cost, and is worth about 1/4th as much... And won't last near as long either...

Mahindra has now come out with a small 4wd diesel tractor with a loader, that is priced at about 11K.. I looked one over the other day at the National Farm & Machinery Show in Louisville Ky.. I'd say that's as low on the totum pole that i'd go... It may fit in with your needs...

BTW, A good way to trash a decent tractor is to use it for pulling stumps... Get the "right" equipment for that job!

DM

[Deberosa]

Thanks for your replies.

First Deberosa. *A clarification and request for clarification.

First this is highly rocky soil. *There is at the very most 1/10 acre that is tillable. *SOP here is to hack out a hole to accommodate the roots of what you are planting. *Extract what dirt you can. *Pitch the rocks in a bin for later use. *Take native dirt and lots of soil amendments to refill the hole. *I'm a pretty industrious fellow. *However the likelihood that in my lifetime I’ll churn enough dirt to render a single contiguous acre for tilling is pretty low. *The 30 minutes I’ll spend tilling each fall and spring here will never warrant anything other than a walk behind, assuming I even need that.

Now my request for clarification. *Moving “stuff” with a front end loader. *I can be awful obtuse on some things so I may need education here. *I’ve read tons of reviews on the need for one, but I’m not seeing the “why” of it. *All the stuff I need to move around here is scattered. *Nothing is in a pile and nothing will end up in a pile. *I have cut logs to move. *I’ve got brush to move. *I’ve got garbage to move. *I have to collect up leaves and grass to amend my planting holes with. *None of that, to my untrained eye, could be improved with a loader. *I’ve been trying to think of things I might bring in from off my property that would require one, but again, my feeble imagination can’t come up with anything. * *This is a relatively new enterprise to me. *So I may be missing something obvious. *My inclination is towards stark utilitarianism. *If I can’t see immediate practical value, it doesn’t grab me. *So if you have some examples of stuff I’d move with a loader, I’d like to hear them.

Biggkidd. *I’m all ears. *Could you give me a couple makes and models for me to look up? *Doing an internet search on “tractor” with no clarification is a lot like typing “porn” into the search engine. *You end up seeing a lot of stuff you didn’t really want to see.

Assume for a moment that Deberosa doesn’t get through my thick skull my need for a front end loader. *What does a compact tractor get me that a high end garden tractor doesn’t? *Again, so far, my two primary tasks are; haul a wagon and pull a brush hog.

Diesel requires no explanation. *If I can go diesel I’d be happy.

Thanks again.


OK, we can check in again in a couple of years. ;-)
Piles of stuff happen and I thought the same as you - but the more I shovelled and see now how it only takes my minutes what it used to take me hours I love my front end loader. If you have animals you will have stuff to move. If you get snow where you are at, you will have stuff to move.

One other attachment I got that isn't the best use here except in one rocky area I have is a 6 tooth ripper. I used it to loosen up the rocky soil and then went over it with a tiller. Very noisy but it was enough to plant a pasture in that area. I put my garden in a different area as I do have lots of good soil too. Bucket teeth on the front end loader help to pry out smaller trees (2-3 inches). Slightly larger, chain to the back and pull.

Not trying to sell you anything, just telling you what I found out the hard way. I don't like having a separate machine for everything because first it's gasoline driven and second it's something else that needs maintainance and upkeep. I would rather have gotten one tractor with attachments in retrospect. But that's just me.

[jgelt]

Thanks for the continuing replies.

Please be patient with me. I am very new to this. I need to pick things apart to understand them. I took years off many a supervisors life with wanting to know “why” until the utmost detail of things.

Also I am not a machinery phile. I get exactly what is needed for the job and nothing more. So when someone says “you will need this” and I can’t see it, I’ll pick it apart because I assume that the “need” they are expressing is driving the solution they are trying to engineer for me.

Finally, I’ve never used any of this stuff. Assume I’m totally ignorant. You won’t insult me. When you see a Swiss army knife with 20 useful things on it, I see a jackknife that costs a lot of money with a bunch of funny shaped tools on that I don’t know what they do.

Hi DM.

Terminology is kind of painful as people tend to use terms interchangeably, so I may not be expressing myself correctly. I see a riding mower as being something under 10 HP and all you do with it is mow lawns. A lawn tractor is in the 10-15 Hp range, can handle attachments you’d use on a lawn under an acre that’s pretty much finished. You might haul a load of loose topsoil delivered from Lowes to the backyard and spread around with the attachments. A garden tractor would be in the 15-20 HP range. With implements you could brush hog, do light grading and haul 200-300 pound loads up hill with minimal problem. A compact tractor would be 15-30 HP. You’d use it to till several acres, pull or loosen stumps, clear big rocks.

Likely there’s some gray areas where things crossover, but that’s my general grasp of it.

Stump removal may or may not be in my future. If it happens I suspect it will be one day and a couple dozen stumps. That doesn’t seem too logical to make a $5000-8000 step up for. Seems like it would be smarter to just bring someone in with a stump grinder for a task like that. All my trees are on an upslope from my house. It’s doubtful I’d do much clearing on that slope. My meadows are, minus containment, ready for sheep. They are cleared and graded.

Annual snow fall here is 12 inches. It tends to fall in increments less than an inch. The temperature here in the winter can vary from 20-50F. When snow falls it melts in less than 2 days, completely. Snow removal isn’t something that makes any sense to spend money on.

[BIGGKIDD]

Hey Sorry it took a while to get back to you.

I have a Jinma (Chinese) tractor 35hp diesel 4x4 most people will tell you its junk but I like it. Its a 2006 I bought new in dec 06 I just did the 200 hour service on it. I did have to work a few bugs out when I first got it but since then it has done everything. Just look around the web at different tractors. DM nailed it when he said a high end garden tractor cost VS worth compaired to a compact tractor. I have several garden tractors all second hand and they did get me by until I got a real tractor. I bought from Smiths Enterprise. Heres a link to them.
http://www.smithsenterprise.com/

I bought my tractor because of price. I got a 35 hp 4X4 diesel with front end loader (koyker made in USA), back hoe (Chinese), HD howse bush hog 5'(USA), *6' box blade (USA), all for under $17,000 since then I have made most of that back doing jobs with the tractor. Also I have added a few more attchments. Now addmittedly I would not recomend this tractor for someone who is not mechanicaly inclined.

Larry

[jgelt]

I’m revisiting this post from several months ago. I’m fairly busy and I don’t hang out here often.

I didn’t revisit this to say “I told you so.” (okay maybe just a little)

I wanted to give an update that might be useful to someone who might be in similar circumstances to myself.

Quick recap.

I’m a lifelong city boy who transplanted into the Ozarks in January of 08.

I’m on 28 acres, half with trees half pasture. I am not very mechanically inclined. I’m not physically robust, but I don’t mind a hard days work. I’m don’t worship at the “more power” church of tools. I’m a frugal kind of guy, I’ll pay a little more to get something that won’t break but I won’t pay to get extras I don’t need.

This region sees no more than 12 inches snow annually. The soil is rocky but can be rapidly amended. One full side of my property has no fence. Much of the existing fence is degraded. Much of the property line is in heavy trees and undergrowth. The property hasn’t seen any farm type use in over 50 years. Portions of the land are on steep slopes. The pasture areas are fairly well maintained.

My primary question was should I be looking at a high end garden tractor, an ATV and attachments or a low end farm tractor to do the job?

What’s the job? Bush hogging / rough cutting my pastures. Hauling trees, logs and rocks. Mowing.

I have chickens, large gardens, a future orchard and likely a few cows and sheep coming the end of September.

The hands down recommendation from most of the folks replying to my original post, was don’t bother with anything other than a low end farm tractor and likely aim for a medium size/power farm tractor.

I asked why? They said I’d regret not having it later. I was also told a front end loader would be absolutely required.

When I asked what I needed a front end loader for, they replied I’d need it to move “Stuff.”

When I enquired what the definition of “stuff” was, answers were “Snow” “Dirt” and “logs” and “stuff.”

My reply was to refer back to weather, we get no snow worth mentioning here. The dirt is heavily mixed with rock so (although I may be wrong on this) I didn’t think a front end loader would dig too far into this stuff. Logs? I can toss them in a trailer.

I was unconvinced. I couldn’t see paying $15,000 when $5000 might do.

My closest neighbor has nearly 200 acres and over a 100 head of cattle. I watched him as much as I could. He had some genuine tasks that required a front end loader, none of which I will do in the foreseeable future. There’s some other tasks he does, that I do or will do that he uses the front end loader for. However all of those could be done by other methods.

End of story, no farm tractor.

I picked up the Craftsman 27 HP garden tractor. I also got an Agrifab tow behind rough cutter. I got a trailer. The tractor can pull the roughcutter with ease up my hills and handles my pasture quite adequately. It mows the spread around the house like a champ. It tows any load I give it with ease. The equipment services easily. I spent about $5000 for the tractor, rough cutter and trailer. The terms were zero down, no payments and no interest for a year.

Maybe 3-5 years from now I might be regretting this and want something bigger. If so I'll post back here and say “whoops!” However, if that’s the case I’ll be in a far better position to implement such a solution, a $10-15K solution right after a move would have been a financial punch below the beltline.

I appreciate everyone’s response. I believe everybody was giving me decent information. Maybe people weren’t seeing what I was trying to do or maybe information doesn’t penetrate my thick German skull well.

[walls0stone]

You bring up the loader,
What saves time from personal experence. *
Toss in Forks and a few 100 Pallets and life is easyer. *For example, friend of mine is currently working on his 2011 firewood. *it's all on pallets, stacked in the woods, then to the barn, then to the house. *But he stacks it only once.

we have many things here on pallets,..rather than loading it on a cart and spending all day with it, just a pallet and your useing equipment, not your body...saving daylight for stuff like...cutting wood :)

[Deberosa]

I’m revisiting this post from several months ago. *I’m fairly busy and I don’t hang out here often.

I didn’t revisit this to say “I told you so.” *(okay maybe just a little)

I wanted to give an update that might be useful to someone who might be in similar circumstances to myself.

Quick recap.

I’m a lifelong city boy who transplanted into the Ozarks in January of 08.

I’m on 28 acres, half with trees half pasture. *I am not very mechanically inclined. *I’m not physically robust, but I don’t mind a hard days work. *I’m don’t worship at the “more power” *church of tools. *I’m a frugal kind of guy, I’ll pay a little more to get something that won’t break but I won’t pay to get extras I don’t need.

This region sees no more than 12 inches snow annually. *The soil is rocky but can be rapidly amended. *One full side of my property has no fence. *Much of the existing fence is degraded. *Much of the property line is in heavy trees and undergrowth. *The property hasn’t seen any farm type use in over 50 years. *Portions of the land are on steep slopes. *The pasture areas are fairly well maintained.

My primary question was should I be looking at a high end garden tractor, an ATV and attachments or a low end farm tractor to do the job?

What’s the job? *Bush hogging / rough cutting my pastures. *Hauling trees, logs and rocks. *Mowing.

I have chickens, large gardens, a future orchard and likely a few cows and sheep coming the end of September.

The hands down recommendation from most of the folks replying to my original post, was don’t bother with anything other than a low end farm tractor and likely aim for a medium size/power farm tractor.

I asked why? *They said I’d regret not having it later. *I was also told a front end loader would be absolutely required.

When I asked what I needed a front end loader for, they replied I’d need it to move “Stuff.”

When I enquired what the definition of “stuff” was, answers were “Snow” “Dirt” and “logs” and “stuff.”

My reply was to refer back to weather, we get no snow worth mentioning here. *The dirt is heavily mixed with rock so (although I may be wrong on this) I didn’t think a front end loader would dig too far into this stuff. *Logs? *I can toss them in a trailer.

I was unconvinced. *I couldn’t see paying $15,000 when $5000 might do.

My closest neighbor has nearly 200 acres and over a 100 head of cattle. *I watched him as much as I could. *He had some genuine tasks that required a front end loader, none of which I will do in the foreseeable future. *There’s some other tasks he does, that I do or will do that he uses the front end loader for. *However all of those could be done by other methods.

End of story, no farm tractor.

I picked up the Craftsman 27 HP garden tractor. *I also got an Agrifab tow behind rough cutter. *I got a trailer. * The tractor can pull the roughcutter with ease up my hills and handles my pasture quite adequately. *It mows the spread around the house like a champ. *It tows any load I give it with ease. *The equipment services easily. *I spent about $5000 for the tractor, rough cutter and trailer. *The terms were zero down, no payments and no interest for a year.

Maybe 3-5 years from now I might be regretting this and want something bigger. *If so I'll post back here and say “whoops!” *However, if that’s the case I’ll be in a far better position to implement such a solution, a $10-15K solution right after a move would have been a financial punch below the beltline.

I appreciate everyone’s response. *I believe everybody was giving me decent information. *Maybe people weren’t seeing what I was trying to do or maybe information doesn’t penetrate my thick German skull well.



Gee sorry I gave such bad advice :'( but I really did mean it to just share what I found out. I did go the same way you are going - so please post again in a year or so and let us know how your doing.

I am getting out of the tractor advice business anyhow and DM has been gone a long time. BUt the good news is you have two new real farmers of hundreds of acres who can now give you much better advice than I could ever give!

Good luck and enjoy your new machinery!

[jgelt]

Hi Walls,

Wood is an area of ignorance on my part. My folks had a vacation cabin in northern Wisconsin while I was growing up. My winter exposure to the place was limited to a few weeks of hunting. When I was a teenager I didn’t pay too much attention to that aspect of things at all.

My first half winter here I was on propane courtesy of the former owner. We used the heat very sparingly and the cost was way too high for us. So I’m installing a wood burner, likely in the next couple weeks.

How far a pallet of wood goes in this climate will be an interesting question. I may seriously revisit the question of a front end loader because of it.

My gut tells me that I can keep up with our wood use without too much problem. But I have no logic to base that on other than we came from far harsher climates, grew up in households where you put on warmer clothes rather than turn up the thermostat.

Is stockpiling wood a function of drying green wood? If so I may not be doing much stockpiling anyway. The previous owner was not into doing labor so I have 12 acres (give or take) and many years worth of nice downed trees and dead trees standing. I’ll likely be burning dead wood for a long time before I actively have to manage the forest.

Nice to hear from you again Deberosa.

No such thing as bad advice when it’s intended to be helpful. Talking it out “so to speak” is very helpful in itself. It allowed me to ask questions that weren’t coming to me and clarify things. I couldn’t have come to a decision without other people’s inputs. So all the advice was helpful.

One thing that’s truly hard to convey via writing is what a person’s property looks like. I probably did a very poor job at that.

Even though it’s 28 acres. There are severe choke points and slopes that I’d be scared to death to drive anything that wasn’t hugging the ground. The property was pieced together from some very dissimilar parcels. The Ozarks are very rolling hills. I have the benefit that my property doesn’t roll nearly as much as others. However my property is situated at 3 different elevations. My house sits on the edge of 2 severe slopes. One is a cleared, severe down slope to 7 acre meadow. The other is a gentle but heavily wooded upslope to the other 8 acre meadow. The two slopes occupy 13 acres. The down slope is a future orchard. The upslope is my source of wood for the property. The meadows are nice and level with good grass. To get upslope to the upper meadow there’s a cut going through the trees. To get to the lower meadow either requires you to go up to the upper meadow and then back down or to negotiate the down slope from the house. In both cases I perceive myself needing something squat and with a small footprint.

It’s a shame I can’t get equipment dealers to bring out there wares to my place and let me test drive them for an hour. It might very well change my mind about my needs.

[walls0stone]

Kind of wood and quality of wood will effect the BTU's given off..so good dry *hardwoods will give off more heat. *Diffrant ideas out there. 3 years was his way.

still the idea was that you could have somthing on a skid/pallet and not pick it up by hand over and over.

Did you ask if you could get a demmo?
Father's equipment busines does them now and then, or ask them, do you have a place I could mess with this?

[jgelt]

It's not seeing it in operation that I really need to see. Seeing if it can negotiate my property would be my big concern.

Sure they let me drive them around their parking lot and pick up a pallet.

My wish is a very unrealistic one. "Excuse Mr Tractor seller, I got a bad feeling that this would roll over trying to negotiate my north slope. Could you bring it out, let me try it and if it rolls, figure out how you are going to pull it out of there? Thanks."

[walls0stone]

"If I could show you that this tractor works on your land would you buy it today?"

[walls0stone]

If you don't have somthing to large in mind, the smart salesmen would give you that responce...presuming you are an actual prospect...just don't give him the impretion that you want to do tons of work on his dime some people will do that.

They may also offer you a lesson on a hillside and show you what it can realy do...if you show them your actualy looking and not a goof.

[jgelt]

At this point I'm happy with what I have.

I came up with a $5K solution that, at the moment, works.

The solutions being offered to me were $10-15K solutions (minus ATVs) which I have huge doubts that they can even make it to 90% of my property.

In the future either after this takes a dump or I come to the realization I need something more I'd entertain any concept.

If I saw it working where I had doubts it could and I needed it, I would buy it.

[stilltryinat50]

jgelt

I think you have the right idea for now. If you have no experience with farming, your best (and safest) bet is to learn on a smaller machine (that you now have).

At a later date you can upgrade to something else.

The front-end loaders are great...you will find many more uses for them than you realize once you buy one.

Be very careful on the slopes, both going up and coming down with a loaded wagon. Loaded wagons can be difficult to stop.

Sounds like you have found your own wonderful piece of heaven...congrats.

Keep us posted on your progress.

[Westcliffe01]

Another inexpensive option is a re-built Japanese Tractor for the 3.5-6K price range - they are "real" tractors. If I was felling trees and bucking them and hauling rounds, I would for sure have a loader to reduce lifting of rounds to a minimum. Working with logs is a great way to get hurt. Wood can also reliably be seasoned in piles, one just has to keep moving them around to get all of the wood evenly dried. This is a task much better accomplished with a loader than by hand.

[Westcliffe01]

Here is the web site of one of many dealers selling rebuild Japanese tractors.

http://www.japanesetractors-minitrucks.com/tractors/index.htm