Synthetic oils?

[msta999]

Has anyone heard anything about America getting rid of petroleum based oils and going only with fully synthetic oil? From what I'm hearing and reading, it gives you extended oil changes and it would reduce the amount of oil we bring in from other countries. I did a search, but couldn't find anything about a mandatory change, but did find many consumers are using it because it is a "greener" choice

[MooseToo]

i imagine, if the govt mandated a shift to synthetic lube oil, the number of tankers coming our would decrease by maybe 0.5 percent -

[tufhelp]

I don’t know about that with about 150,000,000 cars on the road today with about 1.5 gallons in each crankcase, with a certain percentage being changed on a regular basis and about 100,000,000 other types of vehicles with a significant percentage of those big trucks with gallons of oil per vehicle, we could be talking upwards of .8 billion gallons of oil a year… :o

[MooseToo]

I don’t know about that with about 150,000,000 cars on the road today with about 1.5 gallons in each crankcase, with a certain percentage being changed on a regular basis and about 100,000,000 other types of vehicles with a significant percentage of those big trucks with gallons of oil per vehicle, we could be talking upwards of .8 billion gallons of oil a year… *:o
well, consider your own case with your own ride - you change your oil every 3 to 5 thousand miles - how often that happens will vary case by case - but, if it took say 45 days to rack up those miles causing you to use one gallon of lube oil , how many gals of gas have you used in that time frame? how much plastic consumables ?
how much fuel oil/propane/etc ? for every gallon of crude that goes into lube oil, there's a whole grunch of gallons going to other uses -

[shingletownwalt]

If you can run a car on ethonal, a diesel on veggie oil and lubricate with synthetic, why are we still importing oil?
Oh I forgot, the oil companies.

[Buck]

Has anyone heard anything about America getting rid of petroleum based oils and going only with fully synthetic oil? From what I'm hearing and reading, it gives you extended oil changes and it would reduce the amount of oil we bring in from other countries. I did a search, but couldn't find anything about a mandatory change, but did find many consumers are using it because it is a "greener" choice

Syn oil has three real values. First, it will not break down (cook to tar) in
the high heat of towing or other heavy loading. Second, syn has a MUCH
higher shear force which means more of it stays in place when loaded
in a running engine and not get squeezed out. Third, syn is a great
detergent to keep and engine squeeky clean inside which adds greatly
to engine life.

In long term trials on diesel engines (gas is the same here) we found that
the problem lay with the OIL FILTER in all cases due to the fact
that no oil filter on the market can keep syn clean long enough to wear
the oil out 'till next change.

We found that if the filter were changed ,at mid point on the oils life
of about 15,000 mi., we could get the advertized claim of 25,000mi
change intervals. The one quart add during filter replacement was
enough to recharge the oil's anti rust additive package 'till change
time.

One suprize was that due to the detergent value syn oil CAN NOT
be used on engines with over 35,000 mi. on fossil oil or the syn oil
will clean all the carbon build up normal with fossil oil to make
that engine a serious oil burner. Even switching back to fossil
oil would not stop excessive oil consumption.

Our best success was to break an engine in for at least two
3,000 mi fossil oil changes THEN switch to syn and keep that
engine on syn forever. Engine life increased to twice normal
life for a well maintained engine.

At the end of the day is syn worth it for the average car? No, not
really simply because most car drivers don't maintain their engines
on a set schedule so they can, and will , forget syn oil/filter changes.
Syn oil is NOT fill and forget.

If you tow a lot or live in a high them area, then yes, syn can be
your friend.

[msta999]

I know, out here, there are a lot of guys running Synthetic in thier F250 and above trucks, mostly with the powerstroke engine. I never heard of the detergent issue, but it makes sense. Many are buying used vehicles and changing them over. I talked to Amsoil and they told me, when a person buys an oil change kit, it comes with an extra quart of syn oil and a extra oil filter. I use to know a guy who had a dealer license and he would buy used cars at auctions, clean them up and sell them. He said, if the vehicle was smoking out the exhaust, he would change the oil to full synthetic and it would stop smoking, because syn oil doesn't burn.

I would think, if synthetic oil was manditory, the price would come down. Then even if the oil change intervals where only extended from 3-5K to 5-8K, the price would not be that much of an issue and there would be less used oil going into the system or environment. This is something the people would have to be trained on, just like the gov did to get people to recycle.

[Buck]

"He said, if the vehicle was smoking out the exhaust, he would change the oil to full synthetic and it would stop smoking, because syn oil doesn't burn"

Please pardon me but I must take issue with this statement
made to you. It is incorrect to the max. We tested amzoil
syn along with many other brands and found all WILL start
oil burning in engines that have over 40,000 mi of use on
fossil oils. The carbon build up at the piston rings was gone
which was the reason for the increased consumption not
that syn oil won't "burn" which is just plain sales talk.

Removal of carbon is a major reason that older engines
do so poorly if changed late life to syn. If it weren't for
that the switch over would be a non-issue.

Trust me, we put over 1 MILLION hours on various test
engines both in test cells and on the road.

[msta999]

Maybe there is a time factor with it. Maybe it helped reduce it temperarily, I don't know, but he swore by it. Anyway, when I was working at the ford dealer, I had customers ask if they could start using synthetic oil with thier new truck right away, I always told them to wait atleast 15K to make sure the engine (diesel) was broke in first, but at the time I wasn't big on synthetics, just delt with what ever the dealer recommended.

Where did you work, that you performed the testing on synthetics? Sounds like it would have been a cool job.

[Buck]

Maybe there is a time factor with it. Maybe it helped reduce it temperarily, I don't know, but he swore by it. Anyway, when I was working at the ford dealer, I had customers ask if they could start using synthetic oil with thier new truck right away, I always told them to wait atleast 15K to make sure the engine (diesel) was broke in first, but at the time I wasn't big on synthetics, just delt with what ever the dealer recommended.

Where did you work, that you performed the testing on synthetics? Sounds like it would have been a cool job.

You are correct that in your advice to wait 15k to switch. THERE CAN
BE NO NORMAL WEARING IN ,OR "LAPPING IN", OF THE PISTON RINGS
IF ON SYN FROM DAY ONE.

I'm sorry but due to company policy ,and the postion I retired from,
I'm bound by a confidentiality agreement on all their business "by name".

I can tell you all in this country ,and the rest of the world, the company
name is well known.

[MadTripper]

Even synthetic oils have changed in recent times. I'm not an expert however I just switched to Mobil 1 synthetic on a 208K mile vehicle. For some very solid info on the current status of oils, check out the following site:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

The old theory of changing over to synthetic on high mileage motors is no longer applicable. There are additives that actually swell the seals to prevent the leaking that was common in the first formulas. The price is high on these but considering you can easily double the time between changes, it balances out.

Tripper

[msta999]

Hey Tripper!
when I talked to Amsoil, they said they guaranty their oil will not harm your engine, and will increase the life of it, with normal maint. Kind of hard to do that if it will cause damage to your high mileage engine. I mean, we could all get new engines from them, if that was the case, just by using their product..

[Buck]

Hey Tripper!
when I talked to Amsoil, they said they guaranty their oil will not harm your engine, and will increase the life of it, with normal maint. Kind of hard to do that if it will cause damage to your high mileage engine. I mean, we could all get new engines from them, if that was the case, just by using their product..


Times may have changed since we did our test in 2000 & 2001. Both
Mobil 1 and Amzoil did the best of all. Redbrand the worst at the time.

One thing that we did find was that several engines continuted to
run, at reduced HP, in over heat situations that engines on fossil
oils would have locked up and quit. One test engine ran with rod
bearings so overheated that they were tissue paper thin and the
crank was blued from heat but the engine still ran!!

We eventually Ok'd syn for our customers on a dealer service plan
to ensure the filter changes.

[MooseToo]

excellent info on synthetics, buck - see, noboby complains when you speak with authority about a topic that you actually know something about and when you deal with facts and not somebody's fantasy -
thanks - it was valuable info -

[Buck]

excellent info on synthetics, buck - see, noboby complains when you speak with authority about a topic that you actually know something about and when you deal with facts and not somebody's fantasy -
thanks - it was valuable info -

As a matter of record I usually know where of I speak. It's the political
trolls that don't like what I say, that's all.

[DM]

I use synthetic oil in my air cooled motors that get worked hard, or have to start easily in the winter. The only motor i have that fits into that catagory would be my sawmill. So, i use it in my sawmills motor...

I don't use it in my other vechiles, because it doesn't pencil out... I have used it in the past though.

Some cars come from the factory with it already in them, BMW and Corvette are two that come to mind right now.

Engines make nasties (like acids) that "can't" be "filtered" out, and i'd rather change my oil every 3 or 4K to get rid of those, than try to run my oil further.

DM

[tnhunter]

I have only used Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic oil in my V-6 tacomas for the past 11 years. I change oil every 12,000 miles with oil filter changes at every 3000 miles.

One two of the tacoma's, both 4 cylinders the gas mile increased by 2mpg and on the 6 cylinder by 1 mpg.

I would not run anything but synthetic now.

[logansackett]

as far as filters go, what about k&n are they really good filters or do they just have a good marketing dept?

[msta999]

I have seen k&n filters in diesels with turbos, one thing I noticed is there was ware/pits on the turbon fins from dirt hitting them. K&N filters filter best after they get a little dirty. They let in more air, but they do let in the smaller particals of dirt, atleast in the begining.

[logansackett]

I have a 302 in my bronco that I bought used. My goal is to make it reliable.( man I miss my 65) Are the k&n filters good for this engine? I must assume it has been hard used because a kid had it before me. I also run castrole synthetic.

[MadTripper]

K&N are really marketed towards performance gains. They allow more air into the engine as stated earlier at the sacrifice of larger holes in the filter. They also rely on an oil to catch dust and debris as it the air passes through the filter. The oil also gets pulled into the intake which isn't always a good thing and can build up over time reducing the flow of your intake.

If you want a quick horsepower or two, use one. If you want protection, stick OEM or a quality aftermarket filter.

Tripper

[logansackett]

Whats a better after market? I thought k&n was an after market. I know I dont like fram filters from when I was running tow trucks.

[MadTripper]

Fram is an aftermarket replacement as well as Napa and Wix. I believe Autozone has another brand as well but they may use Fram. The difference is that these are meant to be a direct replacement for OEM whereas K&N is basically a new system altogether. Most times you replace your airbox when installing a K&N. I believe K&N may make OEM replacements as well but I'm not 100% on that.

What was your issue with Fram?

Tripper

[Saoirse]

Brad penn oil calls itself a partially sysnthetic oil would it be safe to use on engines with more than 100K I had heard that synthetic oils loosen up crud & destroy the engine.

[msta999]

That is the first time I have heard that. I know people who have switched to synthetic oil, when their engine started to smoke. The synthetic doesn't burn and would stop the smoke.