Diesel PU Question

[jim]

Around 92' Dodge diesel's went from the standard mechanical fuel pump to an electronic version. Have the other manufacturers done this also? I'd like to get a truck, but like to keep things simple and avoid electronics as much as possible.

jim

[WRTN]

Dodge went to the Bosch P7100 inline injector pump in 1994 up until 1998.5 but these engines I believe still use an ECM to control some operations of the engine. These particular engines were very reliable with the exception of the "KDP" (killer dowel pin) which had a bad habit of coming loose from the timing cover and dropping through the timing gears and trashing out the front of the engine timing cover assembly. This was fixed by a simple preventive repair. These engines are still fairly easy to work on and very easy to turn the power up on.

From 1989 to 1993 were the first generation engines you are speaking of. The above engines are the 2nd generation 12 valve engines. They don't make much power and are pretty much obsolete and very tough to find parts for.

In 1998.5 to 2002 Dodge went to the 2nd generation 24 valve engines which are run by a Bosch VP44 injection pump. My current truck is a 2002 Dodge Cummins HO 6 speed. Unfortunately theVP44's are the worst of the injector pumps to have from a reliability stand point. I had to replace mine at 48,000 miles.

Part of the problem is the ULSD fuel now mandated which the VP44 was never designed for and the sharp reduction in lubricity of this new fuel and the other part is the crappy Carter fuel lift pumps that come mounted to the engine and are mounted higher than the fuel in the tank.

These pumps are VERY unreliable and frequently go bad for no apparent reason. A company called Airtex has bought out the Carter pump designe and replaced it with their own which is a FAR superior pump and mounts in the stock location as well as being very reliable. I relocated my lift pump under the tank with a Vulcan relocation kit but the lift pumps are crap and will fail without warning. Best to have a fuel lift pump pressure gauge installed. Once you have the fuel lift pump issue tamed with an aftermarket pump, (the FASS seems to be the most popular but they are VERY expensive......like $600) (Airtex is working on a modified pump to work with the pump relocation kits installed and this pump runs around $150 more or less) these engines are very reliable and make very good power with a few modest goodies.

The newer Cummins engines are CRD or common rail diesel.

If you can find a 1998 12 valve Dodge Cummins pickup in good shape that has already had the KDP modification, that would be the best course of action to take in my opinion, if you want simple as possible but want to make decent power.

[jim]

Thanks! I'd heard that some were using Marvel Mystery Oil or some such for fuel lube.

jim

[WRTN]

Actually biodiesel added to ULSD of about 5% will give the best lubrication properties of any additive. Below is a link to a study posted on one of the diesel boards. I use the Walmart Super Tech Outboard 2-cycle TC-W3 engine oil at 50:1. I have NO scientific proof that this helps reduce wear or other benefits other that the claimed results in the study. I figure it is cheap insurance.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

[kawalekm]

Hi Jim
I have a 2005 Ford 350, and it's got an electric fuel pump. With today's tightly controlled emmisions standards you can forget about non-electronic control. I don't believe any car or truck currently manufactured still has a mechanical fuel pump.
Michael

[jim]

I spoke for a short time with a diesel mechanic this weekend, and he said that the Ford electronic style injectors were 600.00 each if they ever need replacement. Electronics are mandeated by EPA. Count on the govt. to screw up something simple and reliable.

jim

[DM]

Here's my take on it all...

2 stroke oil does help lube the pump ect...

There's are NO manual pumps on current diesels in PU's these days...

The power stroke injectors are actually fired from "oil pressure"... I believe it's a CAT design, and they are complicated and expensive...

I HATE Ford and Chevys "glow plug" design for cold starting... Cummins "heater grid" design, is a much better, more reliable design...

I like the "older" diesel designs because they aren't picky... I can add my used oil to my fuel and they are happy to run on it...

DM

[jim]

Thanks.

I used to have a Datsun 721 unaspirated diesel pickup. When driving and using a light foot to keep the exhaust clean (not black) I'd get around 40-45 mpg. If I tried to drive like it was a gas engine then milage went down to 30 mpg or so.

I've watched the current drivers of 3/4 +ton diesels trying to drive their trucks like sports cars, and wonder what kind of milage they're getting. I do hear some brag about 14 mpg and some of 18 mpg. Can milage on these larger trucks be increased by driving like I did the smaller truck?

I remember when the diesels first came out, I heard claims of 27 mpg. Was the just hype, or fact?

jim

[sethwyo]

I have a 6.9 international w/a c-6 auto. from a ford pu,
It turns over really good, the timing is right, the injector pump works, but it wont run or even fire. Anyone know why? any ideas welcome.

[msta999]

I have a 6.9 international w/a c-6 auto. from a ford pu,
It turns over really good, the timing is right, the injector pump works, but it wont run or even fire. Anyone know why? any ideas welcome.

Is there any smoke, when you try to start it? If not, then it is not getting fuel. These have a fuel filter/water seperator on the fire wall on the drivers side. Many times these housing assy's start to leak air into the fuel system and you will have a no/hard start condition. Most people just bypass this and put a fuel filter water seperator where the filter on the engine is on the pass side. Another quick check is to make sure the big red wire on the injection pump has power. something else is, you need to make sure the glow plugs are working, if it just won't start when it is cold. You can use a 12V test light for this (how long is the wait to start light staying on?) Then of course, I'm sure you made sure there is fuel in the tank you are trying to start the vehicle on. Many of these fords has a problem with the fuel senders, they would read 1/4 tank and really be empty.

[sethwyo]

UH-oh, Well the engin isnt in a pickup any more, It is on a work bench. I hope you dont think i an idiot, But i usto make 4 cylr japanes diesels and the chrysler nisson 6's run buy puting one groung cable from the neg. to the block, then one cable with a switch in the middle from the pos to the starter, and a wire from the pos to the injector pump.
same with the glow plugs, ran a wire to a switch, then to the battery, but i think some diesels did not have any glow plugs. This pu had been cut in half for a trailer, the reason it was scraped was the front end had gone out, and it could not be steared. I have the engine hooked up to 2 12 volt batts, the fuel filter is full and a line from the pump is in a jug of fuel. Have hooked up the power to the injector pump.
Some smoke does come out of the pipes. The only wires hooked up are the starter and injector pump. I tried the glow plugs leaving them on for about 5-8 sec.
Also tryed ether. I tryed filling the return line with fuel. Im only an ignorant farm boy, This is the way i ran other diesels. In my way of thinking, if it turns over, and the pump shoots fuel, it should run. But this engine is outside my box. Thank you for your response,
Does the new info indicate anything else?