Um...do bears LIKE sheep?

[KarenBC]

I suspect this is a dumb question and they likely REALLY like sheep, just like they really like young pork.

Apparently there is a very large very confident black bear half a mile down the road. We get a lot of bears and usually I don't sweat it to much. But at the moment I have 7 head of my neighbors sheep here on grass patrol.

[walls0stone]

yea, I've been told they will go after them... had a bear go after an angus last year...saw it myself. have you ever tried the Vinager in a ballon trick?

[KarenBC]

No I haven't tried that! How does it work?

[Drawbar]

Yeah bears have been known to go after sheep.

Coyotes make up 80% of the predator/sheep kills in the US though and it adds up to something like 18 million dollars a year.

There are a few things you can try, like putting a radio out in their pasture with it set to an all night talk show station. You can also keep them closer to your home, and if thats the case, put a few lights shining out there to kind of deter the bear.

Here in Maine we have problems with bears, but not in taking livestock as much as ruining our corn. For some strange reason they like to roll in the corn. They can flatten ½ and acre a night do that. It must feel good on their backs or something because come September, we find plenty of flattened corn from the bears.

[walls0stone]

take a bag of bait, meat, bird seed, whatever, and below that, hang a ballon full of amonia water. When Yogi and Boo Boo stick a nose up, and bust that package, Pow... a big whiff of bad stuff. They will remember. Folks with sheep here keep a donkey or a lama with the sheep. Guess they are protective. Another woman here has a large white dog, that lives with the sheep year round...he even scares me.

[KarenBC]

Thanks for the advice! I was hoping that the neighbour lady would send her llama with the sheep, he is a very good watch llama.

So far so good with the woolie characters, could be that the automatic lights are helping keep bears away.

[Drawbar]

take a bag of bait, meat, bird seed, whatever, and below that, hang a ballon full of amonia water. When Yogi and Boo Boo stick a nose up, and bust that package, Pow... a big whiff of bad stuff. They will remember. Folks with sheep here keep a donkey or a lama with the sheep. Guess they are protective. Another woman here has a large white dog, that lives with the sheep year round...he even scares me.

Its pretty hard to beat a Donkey for protecting sheep. They are cheap to buy and will most likely out live you. (they live to be 40-50 years old). I don't have one...yet, but when my flock warrants it, I am going to have one. I have heard stories of them killing coyotes by kicking at them , but that may be just stories.

As for the big white dog, its called a Great Parinese. A wonderful livestock dog. They will protect the sheep with equal vigor, but a lot of people make a big mistake by treating these dogs like...well...dogs. They shouldn't be. They are working dogs and should be treated like sheep, and fed like a dog. They should never leave the flock. They shouldn't be petted. They should not be played with...they are working dogs and need to be left alone with the sheep.

If you want to learn wayyy more then you ever wanted to know about sheep, Great Parenese dogs and how many sheep they can keep, how to train them, and all pertinent information, heck out the USDA website on their Idaho Sheep research Center. Its a very interesting read!


http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/companimals/guarddogs/guarddogs.htm

[DaleK]

Donkeys and llamas, dogs, work well with coyotes. With timberwolves and bears, they mostly seem to just give them a break in their diet of mutton. Mmmmm, donkey meat.

Bears here have been known to break through a barn wall to get to sheep and pigs inside, and kill horses in pastures. If ya have one coming for your sheep, make it dead.

Drawbar I'm surprised your bears do so little damage in your corn. They've done studies here showing up to 3 acres per bear per night. Neighbour has a plane, some nights he'll see 8-10 bears in our fields at a time. We shoot as many as we can, still lose 10% of our crop some years.

[walls0stone]

I'm sure that the bear are diffrant from area to area..the dog I'm thinking of is scary...the kind of animal that would give his life for his "fellow" sheep. most black bear here will not pick a fight...I have seen our cattle tangle with bear and win however. maybe you need one of our cows ;)

[Drawbar]

Our bears are pretty skittish here too. They are only black bears granted but its kind of rare to see them. They can smell you so far away that they out flank you before you eve see them.

I have been here all my life (34 years) and I have only seen a bear three times. Once was running out in front of our car, another time was with my dog when we jumped him in a berry patch, and once was a bear rummaging through our burn barrel.

[KarenBC]

We have tons of black bears here. If you go to an oat field in the evening, when the grain is just ripening and holler - chances are good that at least half a dozen bears will stand up to see what the noise is all about.

It's unusual to have them coming in this close at this time of year...the neighbours down the road a piece had buried a large animal on their place and we think that's what's bringing the bears in. Fortunately the neighbours are going to do something to deal with the remains....I'll be curious to see what works.

[Drawbar]

Just one word of caution...don't let things get to carried away just based on fear. I know you care for your sheep and all that, but if the bear has not killed a sheep, then there is just as much chance that it never will. Do you know what I mean?

Right now predatory levels for sheep are low. Coyotes can grab mice and rabbits running around in freshly mown hay fields. Bears have berries coming out to eat on, and as you said, oat fields pretty soon. They are also not starved for food like when they just emerge from hibernation. The threat level is pretty low because they have other food choices.

I would try the radio trick. If its in an isolated spot way out in the back 40, try tying a battery powered cheap radio to a low hanging tree branch to a talk radio station. If its close to home, some well aimed lights and a 110 volt radio would work as well.

Coyotes are the biggest killer of sheep, and surprisingly, domestic dogs being pretty high as well. From what I understand, bear kills occur, but only occasionally.

[walls0stone]

your right about the not yet part.. I'd say that such an act would be after eastyer food is gone. All animals like the easy catch and right now, a bear would take a new born deer before a sheep. That's even a long shot.

If your looking so see a bear, the chances are better here than any other state. I saw many many diffrant bear last year. We also have a Ciniman bear that was once 700 lbs

[KarenBC]

I think I'm a bit more concerned that usual, because these animals do not belong to me...the neighbour is lending them to me as lawnmowers!

I'm trying to get all the long grass in the raspberry patch and around the yard looking all tickety boo like a golf course. We'll be listing the farm for sale in a couple of weeks and I'd like things to be as neat as possible.

So far so good though on the bear front. A couple of times the dogs have gone chasing off into the bush barking...could be a moose or a squirrel though.

[walls0stone]

are they pull or ellectric start?

[Drawbar]

are they pull or ellectric start?

That's too funny. I caught your drift even if no one else did!!

[rAcErRicK]

Caught it also Drawbar. It reminded me of a friend who calls his Poulon chain saw "my pull-on", and now it's a group thing, all chain saws are pull-ons.

Not much to do with sheep N bears, but a little humor doesn't hurt.

[walls0stone]

That's rich!!!! ;D

[KarenBC]

;D I needed that after the adventures today with the wooly ones.

We set up an electric net fence - if you haven't seen one of these they are really amazing. It must be 200' long, it has step in poles about every 10', and the fence is literally a net.

Ran the fence from the greenhouse down to the edge of the rail fence in the cow pasture and back up. Forgot about the "cowboy" gate, it's one of those V shaped openings in the fence, the idea being that cows can't get through it, but humans can (calves can though) and now I know that sheep can!

Had to gather them all back up and get the gate blocked. Getting them back in was an adventure, you've heard of the running of the bulls? I had the running of the sheep today, and the ram was being a real butt head. They'd gotten a taste of the sweet grain earlier in the day when we moved them, so when it was time to gather them up after their escape through the cowboy gate...they knew what was in the bucket. I was running flat out to get ahead of that ram and the pack. Fortunately his horns are just nubbins on his head, but he still gives a pretty solid shove if he hits.

They are just below the house for a couple of days so easier to keep an eye on.

So that was one adventure on the homestead today...went to use the tractor and it has a steady drip from the front...I think it's hydraulic fluid. Parked it with a bucket under it and will check in the morning to see what's going on there. Always something huh?

[walls0stone]

build a stone wall

[KarenBC]

I get excited if I FIND a stone on this property and promptly drag it up by the greenhouse to add to the dog discouraging wall to keep them out of the flowers.

This place has amazing soil, the glaciers left sandy loam. But the neighbours just down the road got the gravel... This area you can really see where the glaciers went through. One of the parks is named Eskers.

[walls0stone]

just gravel and loam? how many truck loads do you want?

[Drawbar]

Yeah that fencing is pretty cool. I was not a believer in it until I saw a sheep farm that was using it. Premier Fence has an excellent website (and an even better catalog) that is basically an encyclopedia on fencing and how to properly make every kind of fencing option available.

As for the sheep, you got to remember running is their one and only defense to predators, and their eyes can see 270º so they can ALWAYS see you and know what you are about to do, and counteract it.

One more thing about fencing. If cowboy gates work well with sheep ( ::) ) don't bother to try those cattle guards. You know those steel pipes that you can drive a car over, but the cattle don't dare step on. Anyway over in England a woman could not figure out how her sheep were getting out until the neighbor watched the sheep go up to the cattle guard, then start rolling across the metal pipes until they go to the other side. They then got up and started eating her flower gardens and stuff.

And they say sheep are dumb!! :) :)

[KarenBC]

After watching sheep for over a week now, they are interesting critters. The mosquitoes are driving the poor things up the wall.

They've eaten all the dandelions and lawn grass first and are leaving the grass amongst the raspberry canes which I suspect it "quack" grass and the longer grass on the hillside that I know is quack grass until last. Over the next couple of days I'll move them and their fence to a new spot for mowing.

[ms-woman]

Great Pyrenees are great guard dogs, down here in MS we use them to guard our goats from coyotes. These dogs bond with whatever they are around most. I started raising them this year, we have three pups here still, the female has adopted the two new kittens. She steals them from the momma cat and gives them baths.

My male is a goat guard, but my female stays with my kids. She is VERY PROTECTIVE of my kids, don't walk in my yard she will put herself between you and the kids. She goes everywhere with them. She patrols at night, and keeps us safe. one morning went out to the chicken coop and there was a possum in the path. She killed it before it could get to our chicks.

Working in the garden the other day, my 3 yr. son was with me and so was Massey(the dog), she went and laid down in the shade, Archer got hot and tired and went and laid down on her! They laid there for about an hour him sleeping and her watching him.

My male Bandit that stays with the goats, he helps the nannies clean up after birth, goes around sniffing all the new kids, and cleaning them up, never once offered to hurt any.
I love my Great Pyrenees!

[flatwater]

Not as much as Montana cowboys :o
Flatwater

[mistyriver]

We have blacks and grizzlies here as well as cougars and would have more coyotes if a local wolf pack didn't make them fairly scarce. We raise Southdown sheep and we've never lost one because of our 2 Great Pyrenees.
They do a great job keeping predators heading for easier pickings.

[mistyriver]

As for the big white dog, its called a Great Parinese. A wonderful livestock dog. They will protect the sheep with equal vigor, but a lot of people make a big mistake by treating these dogs like...well...dogs. They shouldn't be. They are working dogs and should be treated like sheep, and fed like a dog. They should never leave the flock. They shouldn't be petted. They should not be played with...they are working dogs and need to be left alone with the sheep.

If you want to learn wayyy more then you ever wanted to know about sheep, Great Parenese dogs and how many sheep they can keep, how to train them, and all pertinent information, heck out the USDA website on their Idaho Sheep research Center. Its a very interesting read!


http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/companimals/guarddogs/guarddogs.htm

Large white dogs guarding sheep can also be Maremmas, Kuvasz or Komondors (if they have dreadlocks). We have Great Pyrenees and we do treat them like dogs although they live outside year round. They are wonderful loving dogs and working animals.