Non motorized transportation

[WileyCoyote]

Been thinking a lot about this, and researching it.
Perhaps because I am getting so irritated at gas prices, and don't want to be beholden to anyone, but I have been looking at buckboards and sleighs, as well as plowing equipment, and using horses for such duties.
I'm thinking Belgians or Percherons or breeds of this type; sturdy and not as excitable as the finely bred Morgans or trotters or other finer-boned breeds.

Does anyone do this, or has anyone tried it and failed, or is anyone else thinking about this?

[AlchemyAcres]

I think about it every day...
Have plans for a team of oxen...not so much for transportaion...but for everyday chores and such...I hate tractors!!!!
Where I'm at...there's nothing animalish that's practical tranportaion wise...it's an easy 25 mile round trip to anywhere...I just try to limit trips as much as posssible!

~Martin :)

[Mac_Muz]

The question is can you afford hay first and grain second. I drove teams before, and for years, but these days feeding a half bail a day to a draft horse at over 3 bux a bale is as bad as gasoline.

You can't park an animal and shut it off...

When I drove mainly I hauled tourists with 2 Belgians at a time, usually in winter on a pung made over to haul sitting people. A pung is logging sled.

I had access to 2 different teams.

At that same time, before and after I had a Std bred that pulled a "spring wagon" (Something like a buck board) She ate about 1/3 bail a day.

About that time hay was under $1.50 a bail for good quailty hay.

I also drove one horse antique sleighs with other horses more or less the size of a Std bred.
All but my own were for hire and most every single night for 3.5 years, plus many weekends, and Home Coming events.

Once in Md I drove for an evening because the civil war event called for it, and the driver for it was unfamilar and spooked himself. I just happened to be working side by side with him more invited than anything else. CW re-enactment isn't my thing..

Probably you wouldn't save much in terms of money, buy doing this. Besides feed, you get no time away, then you get vet bills on occasions, and other maintaince like shoeing.

If you happen to have a fields with all the hay you need for a year ahead, then maybe a shed to be legal, with access to drinking water suitable to horses this would work.

Then you need a place to store hay as well.

If you have never had horses before you wouldn't want a green team, or a green broke horse.

This is something that takes a lot of time and dedication to, just for learning, and could be more dangerous than riding a motorcycle.

I can tell you for a fact being run away with by a team of Belgians is a bit more excitement than I would ever want to go thru again! I was accustomed to that team as well, but for what ever reasons a panther reared it's ugly head in these 2 horses minds and off they went.

That was on a wagon with a real high off the ground seat, and full foot boards thank God.

They ran at full tilt down hill on the road, to a hard left with a culvert filled with water, and we made that turn, then on down the road, with me pulling and sawing the bits standing at 45 degrees pulling for every ounce I am worth. I headed them at a house and then saw they just were not going to stop, so I put them back in the road.

I prayed no cars would be in the next intersection, and thankfully there were none, and then I had them.

That is the Bear Notch Road which is nine miles to the height of land, and I put them on some hard then. The women who owned them came on after a time in her truck. I went a ways more and put them over, and to fix the rigging that had been broken with bailing twine for where I was at, then we all went on up that moutain some more and the women called me cruel. I just glared back in her eyes and she became silent.

Had it been her she would have been killed likely at the first turn. I was terrified myself, but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do and nothing else will do.

That team would only do it again if they didn't learn that it wasn't going to be succesfull. The time was Spring which is probaly the most dangerous time of year.

One night when the woman owner was out driving with me she allowed them to "Step Up" to fast after the last ride and she drove them into a big pine tree, which split the shaft in two, and she went out off the seat onto the horses backs down between them. I took up the reigns to lift her out from the middle. That busted shaft was failing around and if she fell thru the truck bearing made of an old saw mill saw blade would have made that women some very ugly. The rest of that 900 pounds pung wouldn't have helped one bit either. So don't discount a 1,200 pound animal is some how safer..

[bee_pipes]

Yeah, I don't think there are too many people here that haven't entertained the idea. Like AA, it's 25 miles to town and further to some of the farms where we get our groceries. Was toying with the idea of a goat cart. They'd be cheaper to feed and could clear brush. Donkeys were the next choice. Call me a wussie, but I am no fan of horses. I can ride them and pretty much get a broken in nag to do what I want, but just don't trust the judgement of an animal that much larger than me. Looked at oxen too - skidding logs and doing some of the heavier work around the place.

<...sigh> When it gets right down to it, will have to grow some grain and start making shine to run the chain saws and small tools...

Regards,
Pat

[WileyCoyote]

Nah, bee_pipes, you're not a wussie. My VSO hasn't liked horses since he was a child and saw one kick in his friend's head. I am teaching him but he is naturally suspicious of large animals that might be uncontrollable. Which is not a bad thing!

I've taken care of other folks' horses, exercised them, cleaned up after them, doctored them, etc., and never had the space for one of my own. I've had some that were as gentle as blind pups, and some I would have to slug in the face (don't be disturbed, I am small and not a very powerful slugger!) when they decided to be stubborn, stomp me, or try to bite me. Like most species, they have their good ones, naughty ones, mischievous ones, and just-plain-mean ones; a lot of it has to do with breeding and some with environment. Since I'm one of those folk who can usually 'talk' to animals, even wild ones, and get to understand them, I'm not too worried. I'm not interested in racing Arabians or showing Walkers, so I'll be looking for a certain temperament. The larger ones are usually (but not always!) more mellow. We hooked up a Tennessee Walker to a cart one day to see how he would take it, and what followed was breakage and bedlam.

Since we are looking for a slower lifestyle, driving horses to town over 25 miles doesn't sound too bad - until you factor in things like blowing snow, pouring rain, hot sun beating down, shorter days, etc. I would probably keep the pickup for long sojurns like that. I'm thinking about using them for the work around the property, as well as for shorter trips, perhaps even to market my vegetables and/or plant starts from the back of a buckboard. (You can take the marketer out of the competition, but... ;D ) I am comfortable on a slow walk for miles and hours on the back of a horse, and would like one that wasn't spooked by gunfire if I slid down and hunted...

Not only that, but like Maureen O'Hara said, tractors (and other machinery) are noisy and smelly, and horses have other benefits.

Just wondering who plows with them, who works with them, who uses them for travel, and what experiences they've had. Mostly with the transportation mode, too - are sleighs apt to turn over, which is easier, a two-or one-horse hookup, has anyone tried the ride-on plow vs the walk-behind plow, how do you deal with broken traces on the road, how do you take care of the equipment, etc.

[bee_pipes]

Yeah, love Quiet Man and old movies like that. They don't make them like that anymore...

Other than the obvious drawbacks that Mac_Muz wrote about - namely the feed - horses and mules are the original tractors. Like all tractors, they have a number of accessories. The menonnites out here have all sorts of contraptions to hitch up to horses and mules. Some of the devices are old as moses, some of them are ingenious fabrications made from old auto and truck parts. Many of the passenger and cargo type rigs have pneumatic tires and metal wheels/spindles. We seem to have one or more sects with varying degrees of seperation - some are strictly horse and buggy, some have computers and motor vehicles. Being an outsider, I can only scratch my head and wonder.

Their tool sheds are a treasure trove of equipment. Saw a drill press at an auction once - completely manually operated with gears and verniers that looked like transmission parts. They usually don't get rid of anything until it's useful life is over...

This is mule country down here. Columbia has Mule days every April. Used to be a major livestock show and auction back when mules were the John Deer of the day. Now it's pretty much of a show. See some neat rigs lining up for the parade. There is also a mule museum - mostly contains agricultural implements and machinery. Some excellent ideas kicking around in the museum, but you'd need a real power plant like a mule of draft horse to pull and power most of the gear. There are times where I do look with envy at the possibilities, but the price of feed and other considerations quickly squelch any temptation to carry it too far.

To see practical applications with horses and mules, look to your local Amish and Menonnites. These folk are extremely practical, and if they have a horse or mule, you can bet it's earning it's keep. Also take note of construction, tools, etc. I have seen some excellent examples of equipment, outbuildings, sheds, corrals, etc. made from simple timbers. Why reinvent the wheel when you can steal the idea from someone else?

Regards,
Pat

[WRTN]

Last May I bought my daughter a 2 year old mare who it now turns out is going to give birth to another small "nonmotorized vehicle" ;D in the month or months ahead.

I used to ride a lot as a child but have not ridden in MANY years.

My daughter is pretty much a novice with horse but she has amazed me with how she has been able to train Miss Aria. She has gone from being terrified of her to now they are best friends and she rides her several times a week. For years we promised her a horse if she kept her grades up and after 10 years of straight A's it was time to produce a horse not that we had the pasture for them.

I mentioned to our ferrier that we were considering a companion horse for Miss Aria and he said he had a horse he would give me. Someone had given him the horse a few weeks prior and he did not have the pasture for him.

"Mr. Mingo" arrived about 3 weeks ago and he was in really poor shape. He was just covered with Rain Rot and VERY malnurished. Most of his fur had fallen out to include his tail and mane as well as his entire body just covered with Rain Rot sores. We have since medicated the rain rot and with daily brushing, supplimental feed and unlimited pasture grazing he recovered very nicely and appears to have the makings for a very handsome young man errrr ah horse. ;D The ferrier thought he was about 4 years old but we think he is more like 2.

Once we have Mr. Mingo in top shape his training begins and my daughter and I hope to have a pair of riding horses we can take out for trail rides and give our ATV's a break. I guess a horse can be thought of as an ATV with hooves. ;D

After watching a local logger use his Belgian horses to skid logs, we are keeping an eye out for a Belgian or two or similar sized horse.

[Mac_Muz]

WC, You created a panther when you hooked up a fresh horse to a waggon.. Panthers are everywhere to any horse. You can train a horse to know that sudden tug on the lines isn't a panther, but you want something so heavy that drags so hard th horse can't run... It will go bonkers, so you need a long lead at the head just be out of range for the ft feet... It is nice if the drag is something really solid, but with managable weight in increments off 100 and 50 pounders..

I use a oak pallet rigged in steel strapes, so it stays in one piece. Then with tater sacks filled with sand in these 2 weights I can remove them as I desire. The idea once the horse settles down is to remove just enough the horse can drag it, which usually causes a new set of fits.

You can train any horse to gun fire and or flapping canvass as well. My Std bred was fresh off the track and knew squat about the woods and or being any kind of trail horse.

I wanted a fast and got it, trail horse, that I could take to pre 1840 Rondee vous...

In order to get that done I tied a flapping canvass on the beam of my then barn, at the gull wing.. and left it there..

The gun bit was harder, and took longer. I began shooting a bb gun in and around the padock. A point came when the horse no longer cared a whitt, and I began with a long barrel bolt action 22 rifle. Each time the horse became calm enough to lay a gun over her back and fire it, I went a got a bigger louder gun.. This was spaced over months of time.

By the time we got to the event she would stand a cannon.

At these events there is a Flag Raising ceremony where a 6 pounder gets fired. I knew it, and went right down there, and dis-mounted, leaving cayenne pepper quiver lips idle eatting grass, and all I did was drop a line on the ground.. (ground tied)

All sorts of folks were nudging me, whispering "Mac, Their gonna fire that gun!" I replied Oh yeah I know, I been to these before and lots.. BOOM! cayenne pepper quiver lips didn't bother to flicker one ear..

I had been by then in "My Woods" aka The National Forest at full high tilt shooting a Ruger .44 mag at make shift targets old loggin' camps had left behind in the 30's.

That horse made me be creative more than a few times.

There was that day a beech twigg got caught up in her very long tail. Oh boy.. I felt her "collect" To me this means instant panther, so I stopped her. I didn't understand what was the problem.... yet.

I told her to "walk on" and she took another step and collected. That time I heard the rustle of dry leaves and looked around for the cause. I found it too, and the reigns I had were too short to get back there. I pondered that one a bit as I knew there was no way I was going anywhere, so long as those twiggs were tied in her tail.

It ended with me laying down backwards in the saddle to raise the entire tail, to remove that damned twig from hell.

All this horse knew when I bought her for a measly 200 bux was the track and how to pull a sulky. It was obivous she had been abused, and part of that was likey due to her balking at the gate. She would back up, kick a vicious lash starting up sometimes. I once got hit mid solar plexes mid chest just at the end of the stroke. I called that lucky... Smashed the dash to bits too.

That horse was a great horse for a good rider, and all hell to a novice. I could go better than 100 miles between 9 Am and 4 pm... She had a bad habit of walking when you mounted, and if you slipped off, she was gone..

I left that habit as a safety, so no fool could hop on and try to ride. If you got up there and couldn't ride you had better hang on with both hands, both knees and all of yer feet. Plus more hands.

That name cayenne pepper quiver lips is no accident.

[annabella1]

When I read "non motorized transportation" I think of bikes or trikes and such. Although I have thought about goat carts and have heard some old stories about Tartarian Royal Cart Dogs. Haven't been able to find anything on the internet about them so maybe the breed no longer exists.
I do however enjoy reading your stories about your horses.

[WileyCoyote]

One of the reasons I was asking is that Petfinder.com has literally hundreds of Belgians/Percherons and all sorts of crosses available for adoption. The animals were part of a massive experiment (US and Canadian) of Premarin, and one of the main things that was required for the experiment was gallons and gallons of gestational female horse urine... Yes, I know, Euuuuwwww, but the experiment is over and there are hundreds of pasture-bred horses and their offspring available for adoption. I am an adoption nut; have taken in children as well as most of my animals are adopted critters. And I have always been terribly fond of the temperament of the Belgies and Perches I met... but I don't want a horse just to look at and occasionally ride, but one (or two) that actually does the work of the farmstead. These adoptees are untrained to saddle (which I can handle) but also untrained to pull anything. Thanks for your specific advice on that, Mac_Muz!

I am really disgruntled about gas prices; I remember getting together with the group in the Volkswagen and pooling our pocket change to fill the tank when gas was $.35 a gallon.

Also, in any SHTF scenario, fuel will be high priced if available at all, which might handicap our farmsteads to the collapsible state, especially long term. Plowing by human hand is a drag. I can hoe with the best of them, but why take all day to do a garden spot when a well-trained and steadily working horse can do it in a few hours? Simply driving to town for supplies might not be an option for many of us if we have no fuel.
To take it even further; should we have to, in the event of a long term crisis, revert to a barter system, tinkers and other horse-drawn repair and supply people may be in high demand. Perhaps not likely but possible.

I've been looking at Hansen's Wheel and Wagon, at their buckboards and farm wagons and sleighs for the winter, and debating the pros and cons. In the event of TEOTWAWKI, they and others like them may become the next "truck" dealership. Not to mention that, should one need to haul bootie, a horse is far more silent and doesn't need pavement or even much of a trail.

As an old Irish girl, staying in the barn with some very warm animals is an option if there's no other heat source. ;) I've heard a lot of folks talk about having a supply of fuel on hand - but like bottled water or any other resource in the event of a real disaster, you can never have enough.