Cheap Family Cars ?

[JAK]

I find it is becoming increasingly difficult to get a small family car which is both cheap on gas and cheap to purchase. The move to hybrids and smart cars seem to be making things worse, not better. Hypothetically speaking, is it possible to do much better than this?

Fuel @ 50mpg x $4/gallon = $100/month
Depreciation/Replacement = $100/month
Maintenance/Repairs/Tires = $100/month
Basic ( Liability ) Insurance = $100/month

Our biggest problem here in the Maritimes is rust and getting cheap insurance. It is becoming increasingly difficult to be able to insure and keep a vehicle on the road beyond 10 years, and the used cars coming up now are very poor on gas so those that can't afford new vehicles are finding it rough. The best luck I have had so far is with beater in the $3000 range, as long as you know a good mechanic to find and recognize a good one and keep it on the road for you. Failing that I think the best route would be something like a new or fairly new Toyota Echo. Though you would need to insure it and pay interest you would save some on fuel and maintenance/repairs.

I currently have a '92 Toyota wagon and have had good fortune with it over the past 3 years, but I am always looking down the road to what models might provide good economy in the future. The Echo is promising, but is not a wagon, and is likely not as reliable as the '92 era Toyotas. The Matrix is not too bad in the basic model either, but also is not built as well as the old models. The Echo is out of production now and with the new hybrids it is becoming increasing difficult to get a car which is both super good on gas and cheap to buy and insure. It will be interesting to see what the various hybrids are like as used vehicles, and how easily they might be to convert to plug-in electric commuters, but in general I see the future as being increasingly grim for cheap family transportation.

[Tightwad]

Believe it or not........It's better and less costly NOT
owning a car no matter what you might think. The
number of people that are "carfree" is growing daily.

http://www.bikesatwork.com/carfree/cost-of-car-ownership.html

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/advocacy/autocost.htm

http://www.livableplaces.org/policy/carownership.html

I like cars as much as the next person but I drive mine into the
ground refusing to pay a penny more than I have to for the
damn things. I'm just very tired of being a wage slave to my
vehicles.

In order to hold cost down I ride my bicycles as much as possible
to minumize my useage of my vehicles. To that end, My vechicles
are both over 13 yrs old and counting, NEVER get used for errands
in town(I bike those) never get used for long trips as I take rail or
fly.

My point is........
There is NO such thing as a "Cheap Car" of any kind for any
amount of money. Many people can reduce their car dependance
and get richer for it..........if they only would really try. It's not hard.

If I were you I'd spend my time looking for way to REDUCE my
need for a car instead of worring about what car to buy next.
You'll be richer for it,mate.

[fredusa]

It happens that I own a '95 Ford Escort station wagon. Has the Ford 1.9 litre engine w/auto trans. ( the other engine option for that era Escort was a Mazda 1.8 litre w/more power, but less fuel mileage). I get right around 32mpg in general driving, just over 35mpg on highway trips (say to Anchorage).
This vehicle is old enough that it has needed a few repairs, but nothing really what I'd call major---though I did have to replace the head gasket a few months ago. The machanic told me that from what he could see (down the cylinders) the engine was very clean and may well "run forever".
I paid $3,000 for this guy some four years ago, and, though where I live we, also, get that salt spray from the ocaen, there are almos no problems with rust that I can see, and I'll probably drive it at least one more year. (currently has almost 147,000 miles on her)

[Arkansas_Fat_Man]

8) 8) If your family is not to large you might look at the chevy cavalier. I drive one that is 15 years old and it still gets 32 m.p.g. It's an old two door model . It has the small 4 cyl. engine, but you can't tear it up. It just keeps on running. ;) & I only paid $900.00 for it when I bought it 5 years ago. ;)

[MYellowRose]

You might want to consider a Ford Taurus wagon. My DD and hubby and have 3 girls ranging in age from 10 months to 4 years. Believe it or not, all three child restraint seats will fit in the back seat leaving the "way back", the rear facing seat, empty except when needed. I rode back there last night and was fairly comfortable. Their's is a '95, bought from a private party complete with maintenance records and on owners manual. At one time she drove a regular Taurus, also a '95, and it was very good on mileage and she put plenty of miles on it. From south Texas to CT, to VA, 2 trips from VA to TX and then they traded it in on a large van before the second child came along.
If I have my way and am able to find one that's what I want if I can ever afford another car.

[mangyhyena]

Going without a car is probably the ideal, if possible. However, many people are in situations where going without a car is not practical or even doable. How does one go about using public transportation when the nearest bus stop is 20 miles or more away? What about regions where it is extremely cold? Who is willing to track 20 miles through snow and ice? Not me and not a lot of folks who live on homesteads away from civilization. If living in the city, though, going without a car is probably best. If nothing else one can use the money saved to rent a car or take a cab when necessary.

It is never economical to purchase a new vehicle, IMHO. By purchasing a used vehicle and paying cash you eliminate the monthly payment. Use a small portion of the payment to keep that car on the road and you're ahead of the game. Not many cars will look bad if you save up for a paint job and put seat covers and/or a dash cover in.

What if you bought an old Geo Metro? Can pick one up for less than a grand. Save up $4,000, purchase the metro, replace the engine and tranny, and put a pain job on it. You'll still have money left over to cover anything that comes up with the vehicle if you compare mechanic and autobody prices, going with the best deal. Or, how about going to the local highschool and seeing if you can get one of the students in autobody or mechanic class to take care of your car? Now you're talking paying for parts only and maybe a pizza or two for the kids, who are gaining valuable experience in the process. I know because I was in autobody in highschool and painted many cars for folks. The teacher is there to ensure the job is done right.

Once you're done you may have more in the vehicle than it is worth. I wouldn't worry about that. If the car runs like new, is dependable, and has a lot of miles left that it will run, then mission accomplished. You've got a car that looks decent and runs well and you paid only a few thousand dollars for it.

[Tightwad]

*However, many people are in situations where going without a car is not practical or even doable. *How does one go about using public transportation when the nearest bus stop is 20 miles or more away? *What about regions where it is extremely cold? *Who is willing to track 20 miles through snow and ice? *Not me and not a lot of folks who live on homesteads away from civilization. *If living in the city, though, going without a car is probably best. *If nothing else one can use the money saved to rent a car or take a cab when necessary.



Sorry, but these excuses are both lazy and lame. How did /do people
move about when fuel , or money for, is not available? Please read
my post on Cuba to see how it can be done. The Cuban's HAD
figure out how to do lots of things with no fuel and no new cars.

If they can......so can we.

[DonnaKay]

Tightwad,

Though our views are not always the same, I have always read your posts because they have generally been educational and interesting. However, the last several posts I've read have been a bit judgemental and insulting. I would think that if your true desire (as it has seemed to be in the past) is to educate and encourage people to be more conserving with our natural resources, that you would resist the temptation to insult the very folks that you wish to influence.

I am a Christian and believe it or not there are those of us that are both Christian AND concerned about our environment AND don't want to be at the mercy of the oil companies. Your posts have influenced me to look into to bicycling. When you post links I generally check them out with an open mind. But when I see that many of your recent posts seem to be bashing people like me and those that share my beliefs it makes me much less likely to read your posts, therefore less likely to benefit from your insights.

If all you want to do is rally those that share your beliefs all ready then insulting those that don't is a sure way to do it. But what's the benefit it that? Isn't the possiblity that you may CHANGE a person's views much more rewarding? I can assure you that calling a person's opinion on a topic a "lazy, lame excuse" is not going to convince them to listen closer to what you have to say. In fact, more likely they will just walk away even more set in their way of thinking.

Just a thought,
Donna

[Tightwad]

Donna, I believe that you've missed my intent by
a mile. It's my nature to be somewhat blunt at times
to cut through the consumer crap that buries us all
everyday. What you take for anger is bluntness to
cause people to do one thing..........THINK and not
follow blindly.

As to any reference about religion........
There is a movement that is today acting behind the
scenes to take control of our government by using
good people , such as yourself, to vote their agenda
into power. Good honest people of honest faith are being
deceived everyday all across America into buying the lies
being spewed from the pulpit and religions literature.

It's taken the christian rightwing 30 yrs to take over the
Republican party but now they have it and are busy
establishing a rightwing theocracy that will erase women's
rights along with our Constitution.

Don't believe me?? Go research the subject yourself then tell
your friends. I'm still the same crusty dude that I was when I
arrived here trying to teach and share with all who will listen.

I care deeply about America and am concerned to my soul about it
now due to the political criminals now running it. I invite you to join
me in the effort to become a informed citizen and take America back.

[aussieron]

Tightwad, I agree with your thoughts on consumerism.
But getting back to the which car question, the Toyota Prius hybrid car was tested here and the Volkswagen diesel was found to be much more economical, I don't know how much they are over there, so I can't comment on that, but the ones without a common rail injection system convert well to run on waste vegetable oil.
Kind regards...Ron

[Westcliffe01]

VW diesels have not been sold in the US since 2005. Used ones command high prices now (can't find any below $15k within 100 miles in MI). Also remember the annual refinery trick: Summertime, gas price goes up because of all the consumers going on vacation. Late fall, diesel price goes up since the truckers have to keep truckin, even though most people don't do long road trips in winter. 50c a gallon price differential in these parts that diesel is higher than gas now.

New diesel vehicles since 2007 have complicated emissions control systems (much more complicated than previously on gas vehicles) so this will make the re-introduction of diesels more difficult and expensive. Sales of diesel trucks fell this year after the change, since commercial fleet operators bought everything they thought they might need in 2006 to avoid being the first to have to use the new technology.

[Rancher]

I have no bone to pick with anyone deciding which car to own.
For myself, I believe there are a number of considerations and I feel that some are more important than others. I do resent the "Greenies" dictating to us about cars and trucks since we all have varying situations and I feel that most of the "environmental" concerns related to vehicles is way overblown. In fact, much of the "Enviromentists" are full of it. Take the fraudulent "Global Warming" propaganda as example.

I only own one car at a time. I almost always drive one of my pickup trucks, usually my Dodge D3500 Diesel, except when I drive with my wife to church, shopping, longer trips,etc. My wife always drives our car when she is alone or takes others with her.

For nearly 30 years I bought and owned Chrysler NewYorker sedans. When Chrysler down sized the New Yorker some years ago, I switched to Lincoln Towncars. I now have my third Towncar.

I always bought these cars for the reason that I wanted my wife to always be in the safest car possible on the road. Thank God she has never been in an accident but if she is, I want her in the safest car. It is a fact that bigger cars are safer than little cars in an accident.

I have no problem with fuel (gas) consumption. We live in an area where three types of gas are sold, regular, regular with 10 percent Alcohol, and E-85 (85 percent alcohol). Using regular gas in our Lincoln we average 30-32 MPG. Using gas with 10 percent Alcohol we average 24-26 MPG. I have never used E-85.

I know that better fuel mileage is advertised for the little cars and Hybrids. I don't care. The safety, comfort and room in the bigger cars is much more important to me. And the bigger cars are much more pleasant to drive on extended trips. Also, my wife belongs to a few Women's Clubs or groups. She often has 4 or 5 other women with her, riding to meetings, activities, etc. The Lincoln makes this much more comfortable and I notice that some of her women friends have little cars but they all ask my wife to drive when she and they go to meetings of some distance. I notice that they prefer to ride with four or five, even six people in a Towncar rather than two or three in a little car.

So I believe everyone should buy and use the car of their choice without others being critical of their choice.
Economics is an important consideration and I appreciate that. But the politically correct Hype about enviromentalism and cars is bunk.