Canning Ham

[firegirl969]

I have two country cured hams in the freezer. I wanted to slice them while frozen and freeze them in wide-mouth jars to store in the root cellar. The ball canning book does not tell how. Does anyone have experience canning hams? Thanks in advance, firegirl

[NCLee]

I have two country cured hams in the freezer. I wanted to slice them while frozen and freeze them in wide-mouth jars to store in the root cellar. The ball canning book does not tell how. Does anyone have experience canning hams? Thanks in advance, firegirl

I think you mean canning them for storage in the root cellar. Are you planning to slice them, as if you were buying sliced ham from the store that has the bone in the middle of the slices?

I haven't heard of anyone canning country ham, so I'm a bit uneasy about you doing it that way, if you indeed plan to slice, put in jars, cover with water and can.

Usually the fat on a old (curing style and how long it's been in the freezer) ham will be starting to turn rancid. Some times it has to be trimmed off for any kind of cooking. So you wouldn't want any of that fat in your jars. Plus, the fat can cause sealing failures.

My thoughts for whatever they're worth. I'd try just one ham first. Defrost. Wash off the excess salt and pepper. Boil it as if making a boiled ham dinner. When it's almost done, remove from the pot. Let cool enough to handle. Cut into chunks for canning, as if you were canning beef stew.

Put into jars and cover with the hot cooking liquid. Process for 90 minutes at 10 lbs pressure (adjusted for altitude, if necessary).

Again, these are just my thoughts. I'm hoping that someone who's actually done it will come along with the best advice on how to can them.

Lee

[JarDude]

Bumping an old thread.

Does anyone else have any experience canning ham?

[Rickhead]

Buy jackies books!
I'll hit the high spots, im on a phone, and no typist.
Slice fat free boneless chunks 1" or chunk 1". Cut to fit jar, less headspace if needed. Lightly brown. Pack hot into hot jars, 1" hdspace. Make broth from drippings, hot broth over ham.
Pints 75, quarts 90, ten # press.
Or, click the ask jackie button. Lmao.
Buy the book if possible. Mines 3 weeks old and paid for already, just canning butter and cheese.

[neparose]

I get as big as, and as many as i can, "bone in" hams around the holidays. I just cook them in the oven till internal temp comes up to where it should be,[raw-160 cooked-140] take them out and have ham for dinner. Then I just cut the rest up into cube sizes and put that and any juice in the fridge till morning. Meat and juice goes into a roaster pan back into the oven to heat it back up while I get the jars ready and the canner going. I pack hot meat into hot jars and top off with juice[I cheat alot and use a bulion ham stock] wipe rims and put on simmered lid and cap and process for meat times. i use it alot for breakfast omlets, casserloes, scalloped taters, bbq's,ect... I have never done a "country ham" before but there cant be too much difference. just use common sense, like was said about washing off excess salt and pepper and trimming off as much fat as you can. And also, like was stated before, when in doubt, ask Jackie!LOL!

[NCLee]

Buy jackies books!
snip...
Buy the book if possible. Mines 3 weeks old and paid for already, just canning butter and cheese.

Rickhead, I'll probably get in trouble again with some folks with what I'm about to say. If you are a very experienced canner, feel free to totally ignore what I'm about to say. After all, it's your kitchen and your choice.

Canning cheese and butter may not be safe. Even Jackie admits in articles in the archives here that some of her recipes are experimental. That is, they haven't been tested for safety.

In at least one article (I'd have to look it up again) she states that cheese is high acid. In fact, cheese is quite the opposite. Did the research a while back to learn the pH of various types of cheese. As Glenn Beck says -- don't take my word for it, read for yourself.

If someone is going to can butter, from what I understand the most safe way to do this is to can ghee. (Google for more information, including some canning instructions.)

For those new to canning, please get the Blue Book and use this link http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/publications_usda.html Wait until you are well experienced in canning, according to current guidelines before venturing into uncharted waters. Jackie and others have years of experience which helps them navigate those waters.

FWIW, I grew up eating a lot of canned goods that don't pass today's muster. However, my Mom was an experienced canner. She knew exactly what to do before, during, and after canning, to keep her family as safe as possible. However, I also remember a family of 4 in a nearby community who died from improperly canned foods.

In closing, one of the responses to this type of post of mine is to tout the low number of botilusm cases reported each year. However, they fail to mention how few people can today when compared to the past. Nor do they give any credit to the research that has fine tuned guidelines that hadn't been done in my Mom's day, when deaths were in the news far too often.

Donning flame proof vest, one more time.

Lee

[JarDude]

Rickhead, I'll probably get in trouble again with some folks with what I'm about to say. If you are a very experienced canner, feel free to totally ignore what I'm about to say. After all, it's your kitchen and your choice.

Canning cheese and butter may not be safe. Even Jackie admits in articles in the archives here that some of her recipes are experimental. That is, they haven't been tested for safety.

In at least one article (I'd have to look it up again) she states that cheese is high acid. In fact, cheese is quite the opposite. Did the research a while back to learn the pH of various types of cheese. As Glenn Beck says -- don't take my word for it, read for yourself.

If someone is going to can butter, from what I understand the most safe way to do this is to can ghee. (Google for more information, including some canning instructions.)

For those new to canning, please get the Blue Book and use this link http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/publications_usda.html Wait until you are well experienced in canning, according to current guidelines before venturing into uncharted waters. Jackie and others have years of experience which helps them navigate those waters.

FWIW, I grew up eating a lot of canned goods that don't pass today's muster. However, my Mom was an experienced canner. She knew exactly what to do before, during, and after canning, to keep her family as safe as possible. However, I also remember a family of 4 in a nearby community who died from improperly canned foods.

In closing, one of the responses to this type of post of mine is to tout the low number of botilusm cases reported each year. However, they fail to mention how few people can today when compared to the past. Nor do they give any credit to the research that has fine tuned guidelines that hadn't been done in my Mom's day, when deaths were in the news far too often.

Donning flame proof vest, one more time.

Lee

Excellent post. Don't see how anyone can flame you for anything posted here.

BTW Thanks everyone for the responses on canning ham.

ps I have read my blue book that says I can hot water bath green beans and will be doing some this afternoon. LOL

[Rickhead]

Lee, i dont see any reason for flame proof duds, nor kevlar.
I really appreciate your knowledge and concern. I know that canning of dairy products is outlaw territory.
I know folks that can butter for only 30 minutes and that makes me nervous. 60 minutes, not quite so much.
While im new to canning, my mother and grandmother canned hundreds of jars per year, easily, each. I have their books and notes.
Store bought butter has been thoroughly 'killed' of pathogens, just ask the govmint! ;-) simmered for ten to fifteen minutes, water bath for 60.
As for experience, how does one go about getting it without doing it? Knowledge comes from learning, experience from doing. I wish i could underline that word, cant on my phone.
I run a clean kitchen, sterilize everything, and hope for the best. Doesnt every home canner that wants to eat real food?
That being said, if someone that has canned butter the same way and survived for decades, is willing to write, im willing to read. I always get second and third opinions from Experienced poeple. Been thinkin outside the box for decades now, not gonna change now. Change is for the socialists!
Thanks again for your concern. I really do appreciate it.
The rebuttal sir, is all yours. I eagerly await it.
Rick
Hell, i could die tomorrow, only one that knows aint telling.
I'll take reasonable precautions, and do what i feel i need to do.

[Rickhead]

7 replies, 1,037 views. Ham is popular. Experience, too.
Imho.

[NCLee]

JarHead, thanks. My Mom water bath canned greenbeans. So I've eaten my share of them. BTW, they are cooked to death in the process. In addition to the safety factor, it's just plain faster to can them in the pressure canner. :wink:

Richhead, some rebuttal. :)

Again this is said from the standpoint that it's your kitchen and your choice as to what you want to do there.

First and to just get it out of the way... I could care less what the "government" says about canning and other related issues. But, I do care about the research findings at university extension services, independent labs, and such. If NC State labs determine that xyz poses a problem and that's confirmed by research at The U of Utah then I do care. For example:
From Utah. http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/publication/FN_Food_Preservation_2009-01.pdf

Using the search feature at http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/search.html gives access to all of the extension sites for research into their recommendations. BTW, uga, is the University of Georgia.

On to other rebuttal.

FWIW, I have my mother's 1953 Ball Blue Book and a number of other old ones, including one that goes back to World War I. Since the early 70's I've been following developments in canning. Things that were considered to be safe when I first started canning aren't today. Number of reasons for this. Newer research has better pinpointed the degree of risk associated with certain processes/procedures.

Circumstances have changed. The classic example is the change to the acid level in tomatoes. Old fashioned heirloom tomatoes are high in acid (general rule). Tomato breeders have been busy creating hybrids with much lower levels of acid. With the lowering of the acid, the need for changing guidelines happened. Mama never added acid to her tomatoes, as I do today to keep them as safe as Mama's canned tomatoes were, way back when.

This point is personal opinion, as I haven't seen any research supporting it. Back when Mama was canning, she didn't have to deal with the degree of unseen comtamination we face today.

Chickens came from the backyard. Chickens that had any hints of illness or defect were NOT chosen for the table. Her chickens didn't come in contact with those from other flocks. Thus her canned chicken wasn't exposed to the contamination possibilities of today's supermarket birds. Last I heard, about 80% of supermarket chicken is comtaminated.

BTW, A neighbor is recovering from illness that dehydrated him to the point he had to have IV fluids twice over a week's time. Last I heard final tests weren't in, but initial tests indicate the source was contaminated chicken, eggs, or dairy.

Same thing applied to Mama's homegrown fruits and vegetables. She didn't face the potential that we face today from purchased produce.

And, the last rebuttal point for this session. :) Why take risks when it isn't necessary?

Mama had to take the risks in order to put food on the table. She didn't have a pressure canner. She followed, as best she could what her Blue Book told her and what Grandma taught her. She didn't have the option of ordering canned butter on the Internet. She didn't have the benefit of today's research nor a way to access it, even if it had existed.

Why should we take the risks that she had to take, when we don't have to take them?

Your turn. :)

Lee

[Rickhead]

Lee, your just doing these to see how long it takes me to get cross-eyed typin into this phone, aint ya? Lol
until 2 months ago i'd never heard of powdered butter, im a farm boy.
And two universities got the same or similar results, but the grant money came from....?
A grant from the govmint, or more than likely, giant conglomerate food destroying corporations.
The Bammers food safety czar is a former monsanto "food safety" exec.
You trust them all you want, good luck with that.
You actually believe results dont get skewed to suit the grantor?
Ive got a sweet bridge for sale, cheap. Step right up!
The time comes to buy powdered food, when the stars and finances align, i will.
Whats in there, that powdered stuff? As far as chemicals, preservatives, pesticides, etc?
Who handled it? Did they wash their hands after going potty?
Is the machinery sanatized daily?
If i dont know all the above and more, should i just put some blinders on?
Anyone that does is a fool.
Ive been in a pissy mood since i learned about the cloture on S. 510.
Again, govmint not giving a crap about we the poeple.
When bill gates and soros invest in monsanto, pay attention and follow the money.
You seem like an amazingly intelligent person, lee. Have you seen the documentaries on these monsters in our midst?
Google that, friend.
In closing, i too have not one, but two ball blue books. And i read goodly.
Enough for now, stuff to do. Gotta go chip ice off the critter water, again.
Have fun, until we type again, lol, Rick

[NCLee]

Rick, I'm usually not on line as much as today. Unusually quiet for a change. Warm up dem fingers and give em a rest. Here's another round, but only when you're ready.

First, gotta be careful not to develop this into a policical thread that gets booted downstairs. I rarely venture down there because I don't want to get booted off the forum altogether. Maybe to say that I'm for the repeal of the 17th amendment is enough to describe my position on the overall subject.

I'm well aware of the rebuttal points that you've made. Agree with much of them to varying degrees. That said, I do try to follow the money trail where I can. Often it's simply a matter of asking the question, who benefits the most?

That question leads me to canning guidelines. Who benefits the most if research indicates the need to add more acid to tomatoes when they are canned? Or, when the time to process a vegetable is changed from x to y? Or, when test results indicate a risk of botulism when cake is canned for long term pantry storage? With the last item, I'm sure there isn't enough cake/bread home canned in this country to cause a blip in anyone's profit margin, if it had been deemed to be free of risk associated with botulism.

On another point, I'm well aware of what's happening in the food industry at the levels you're discussing. One example is how deceptive the terms "organic" and "free range" can be with chicken. Brought that up because it gets back to my point that we have to deal with things today that my Mom never faced, when preparing food for long term storage.

Her chickens were truly organic and free range. I can taste the difference between those raised like hers and the ones being sold, as such, using bare minimums bordering on false advertising by big corporations. (Don't want to use that paint brush on every supplier, as some mean what they say with their labels.)

The blinders that you mentioned. :) Nope, don't wear them. Even if they were full blindfolds, instead, it wouldn't make a difference. Much of what you mentioned comes into play with everything we consume that we don't produce ourselves. Those questions can't be answered whether we're at a local old fashioned family restaurent or buying grain at an elevator or sweet taters at the farmers market. Again, this gets back to my point that things have changed since Mama used sausage grease to seal jars of home canned sausage from pork grown on the farm.

Oh, when you have time, what's the rebuttal on the question of why take risks, in cases where it isn't necessary to do so? I'll use canning cake as the example.

Look forward to your reply when fingers and eyes permit. (big smile)

Lee

[Rickhead]

Seems like we both need a hobby! Blustery and cold today in Maine. Had to plug in my chicken waterers. Brrr.
Ill post more later, just a quickie for now.
Raised a fourth generation farmer. 55 acre produce farm, and we had all the critters for family consumption. Lee, ive picked many thousands of tomatoes, processed hundreds of chickens. Im not new in any way shape or form.
These days my form is pear shaped.
I dont add acid to my tomatoes, i only grow real food. Been saving seeds since i was knee high to a short sheep.
I'll answer your risk question when youve answered mine about processed powder, added poisons and how safe you feel it is.
Later on, Rick.

[Rickhead]

And who the hell cans cake? Cake is made to eat, not can.
Wouldnt the frosting wreck the seal? Lmao.

[NCLee]

Rick, just had to laugh! This debate started with your post about Jackie's book. Guess who cans cake in a jar. :lol: Gotta give her credit for noting the risk factor with it. http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/JackieClay/2007/12/08/readers-question-cake-in-a-jar/

Now, on to "powders". Thought I'd answered that in that we can't be "sure" of anything that we don't produce ourselves. Maybe I didn't....

For myself, and commercial products, I read labels and try to weigh risks vs benefit derived, to the extent that I can with each situation. Have done extensive research over the last few years due to medical problems in the family. There's a long list of commercial items that I don't buy, simply because I've read those labels, including the fine print. BTW, being labeled as Trans fat FREE doesn't mean that it does not contain trans fat, for example.

Since this thread got around to canning butter as a part of safety of canning, I can't speak for any "powders" other than Butter Buds Mix. Here's the scoop on that. http://butterbuds.com/faq/index.html Researched it when I bought the first package. In this case, it is a matter of weighing the risks between this product and using commercial butter due to those health problems. Unfortunately I don't have access to fresh raw cows milk to make my own butter for very limited use in this household.

Does the above qualify for an answer to my question about taking risks with canning in cases where it isn't necessary? :) Your turn, whatever round it is. LOL

Lee

[Rickhead]

....."used to mask undesirable flavors" butterbuds sounds yummy. It even "enhances mouth feel!" Sounds mouth watering.
There ya have it. If you use real food, with real flavor, you dont need:eek:"Spray - dried to a powder like form" ah.....stuff.
And you really think canning butter is dangerous? So be it, then. I guess I'll have to live dangerously, because, Lee, I WANT TO. If the power goes out, you can bet I'll be canning more, too. Really want to make some with raw milk, cheese, too. Its ok, i wont offer yo:man_in_love:u any, so you wont hurt my feeling. Thats right, life has beaten all but one feeling outta me.
You have fun in your kitchen, I'll have fun in mine.
And by all means enjoy your enhanced mouth feel.
I'll enjoy mine with beer- steamed clams and lobster.

[Rickhead]

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.....;-)

[NCLee]

Rich, final round, unless you want to continue. :)

"mask undesirable flavors". This food prep technique has been used since the days of the spice trade route from Europe to Asia and further back in time than that. Spices were used to mask the flavors of not so fresh foods.

Premise is still valid, today, even with fresh foods. Cole slaw a little too sour? Add a dash of sugar. Collards too rank because they haven't been touched by frost? Add a dash of sugar and/or a splash of vinegar to help mask the undesirable flavor.

"mouth feel". Again, another term that applies across the board in cooking. Adding olive oil to a dish does the same thing, in terms of texture to improve "mouth feel" as reconstituted Butter Buds. Not talking about flavor here, just how the mouth preceives what's in it. For an entirely different example. The mouth feel of ice milk is much different from ice cream. Yet there's nothing wrong with either of them, if made with wholesome ingredients.

Rick, I'm always the first one to endorse homegrown / homemade foods. Just as I endorse cooking from scratch instead of using "convenience" foods. And I recommend that all food storage be as safe as possible. Doesn't matter if it's canning, dehydrating, salt curing, or fermenting.

As to canning butter, if I were to can it, I would can ghee. If the need arises, I would can it with all due cautions before, during, and after canning. Just as I would use my Mom's old water bath canning methods for low acid foods, if that's the only choice to preserve the harvest. However, back to my last question, why take the risk, if it isn't a necessity?

Uhmmmm, that "mouth feel" sure sounds good! Guess I'll just have to settle for some fresh caught bass cooked to perfection, as I can't pull clams and lobster from our local fishing hole. (sigh)

Oh, almost forgot. I wouldn't turn down a big glass of cold raw milk, with a bit of cream floating on the top, if I trusted the source. Or a big glass of homemade buttermilk, or cheese made from that raw milk, either.

FWIW, I've enjoyed the debate. Much, much more enjoyable than the flame throwers I encountered on another forum when I suggested that those NEW to canning follow the guide lines until they get enough experience to made educated decisions on how much risk they're willing to take in their kitchens.

Enjoy the lobster!

Lee

[Rickhead]

Lee, Lee, Lee. Maybe we should start a debate thread sometime. I have all winter!
The answer is quite simple. Canned butter is for wtshtf. And its coming.
If i have homemade breads, butter, the occaisional venison steak, i can endure almost anything. They are my primary comfort foods, along with my smoked beef stew, and hearty soups.
Its for my sole consumption. Not gonna feed anyone with it. I'll take chances in a food crisis. To me the chance is tiny, to you it borders on...... Its like an old grumpy dog guarding his bone. Lmao.
Make sure you come back for the last word, youve earned it!

[Pigzzilla]

Ok you two. This has made for some interesting reading. One very interesting subject and 2 strong opinions.

Lee, I agree we should, as experienced canners, pass on the knowledge we have and stress to new canners the reasons for changes in the way we process our food. Safety, knowlege and more modern techniques and equipment have become much more important in the way we can today compared to the ways our Moms and Grandmoms did.

I also agree with Rick that by processing our food we know what's in it. At least if we grow it ourselves. And I think we, as a culture, have become much too dependent on processed foods. But I agree we should learn or remember some of the old ways, with caution, for when we find ourselves in a situation where what is today considered 'experimental or outlaw' canning may keep our families fed.

We don't have to go back to waterbath canning meats and veggies. Learn how to use a pressure canner safely. Have spare parts stocked. I, for example, have multiple pressure canners, a 16 quart and 2 22quart models. The parts are interchangeable. And I have multiple spare gaskets, vent tubes and over pressure plugs stored away.

Our problem will not be how to can and preserve our food, it will be getting food to feed our families. We should be concerned about access to, storing and growing heirloom and open polinated seeds that will grow in our areas.

I also have many old canning books. But I usually follow recipies from the newest Ball Books and the University sites. I also have 4 cases of home canned butter stashed away. And cheese sauce and bacon. These are not for everyday consumption. They are for when these foods are no available.

Just my opinion, pigzzilla.............the other Lee

[NCLee]

Good Morning Rick and Lee :wink:

Rick, thanks for the last word. LOL
Lee, thanks for jumping into the "debate".

Rick, one point that I forgot to include in the "masking flavors" and "mouthfeel" was that neither spices nor olive oil have anything wrong with them, as was implied with the use of Butter Buds for the same purposes. Doesn't matter if it's real homemade butter or Butter Buds, each does the same thing in how they affect food on those two points.

Yep, I admit that I'm an old dog guarding a bone when it comes to "guarding" folks new to canning. :yes4: That's based to a large degree on the fact that I remember those folks who died from botulism not very far from we lived. That news report on the radio still echo's around in the back of my head.

Lee, I agree with you about pressure canners, with one exception. In a SHTF longterm situation, the only canning option may be a fire under a washtub in the backyard. As long as there's a way to produce steady heat to hold consistant pressure, there's no reason for not using a pressure canner, IMHO. Agree with you 110% on having extra's for all aspects of canning. Currently have 2 large pressure canners & supplies along with 4 or 5 waterbath of varying sizes.

Yall may be surprised at just how much I agree with you while guarding that "bone". Mama taught me her methods. Right now, I won't share them because of the risk potential involved. Currently there's no need for those new to canning to take those risks. However, if/when the need arises, I will use and teach those methods, if that's what it takes to keep food in the pantry. This will be hands-on instruction as it far too difficult to convey the subtle differences that can affect safety by writing out instructions, IMHO.

To sum it up.... For new to canning folks. Get the equipment NOW. Learn to use it NOW, according to CURRENT guidelines. With that learning curve under your belt, you'll be in a much better position to follow the advice of an old dog like me, if/when I show you how Mama and Grandma put jars of canned food in the pantry using the not-as-safe methods.

In closing, obtaining food to put in jars, if the world goes to heck in a handbasket is my biggest worry, too. :sad:

Lee

[Rickhead]

Pigzilla, I live out on the boondocks. I shot my tv when tv went chinese nade digital. What? I took it outside first!
Point is, i dont get a chance to mentally spar very much. I cant vouch for Lee, but that was fun! It keeps the brain cells boingin along inside my noggin.
I only have one pres. Canner. Ima poor/ cheap bastid. I will add more as time goes on. I wantan all american ( dang phone) but thats not gonna happen soon.
I really enjoyed watching the 'view' collumn. Thought others would join in. Maybe they really really like canning ham....
Lee, hope you feel as i do, just having fun. I havent had a good argument in .... Since i filed for divorce!

[Rickhead]

Too funny. Your reply wasnt up when i started typin.
Seriously, a good natured, well mannered debate is fun.
Better with a keyboard, not a phone!
I learned a lot. Have fun, and see ya on the boards, lee

[sbemt456]

Firegirl I think the canned ham would be fine. Only thing I would suggest and this is from experience is to leave the ham in chunks that fit in the jars. If it is sliced before you process it in the pressure canner it will be so tender it will fall apart. IF you can it in chunks you would more likely be able to take it out of the jar and slice it later to use. As for adding water, I did not. Just put the meat in the jar and process. It will have a small amount of liquid cook out in the jar during processing and this can be used for seasoning as well. Depending on how long the ham has been frozen, I think I would make sure to trim it well as the fat will likely be rancid even if it has been frozen. Good luck and use your own judgement. This is just the method to my madness.


Have a great day!
stella